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Thread: Well known PFA member Chinamaniac is recruiting for multiacccouting Sportsbooks

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    Platinum ftpjesus's Avatar
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    Well known PFA member Chinamaniac is recruiting for multiacccouting Sportsbooks

    To say the least itís a bit disappointing. Somebody whoís had a decent rep on this forum to openly be recruiting people to borrow their accounts so he can multiaccount is the epitome of hypocrisy and outright scummy. I understand his reasoning because heís gotten backed off a bunch of books but this is a fools errand as heís going to get caught especially openly advertising on Twitter as well as getting peoples accounts on those sports books shut down and banned. Not smart China not smart at all

    https://twitter.com/#!/x/status/1660407376464297985

     
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    Plutonium Sanlmar's Avatar
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    This is sports wagering not online poker. This isn’t multi-accounting in the poker sense. Having more than one account in sports wagering doesn’t give you any advantage over the house or any other player.

    China is a subsistence gambler and you need to bet volume and size cause 53%-60% win rate requires those two elements if you are gonna earn.

    Every single one of the greats has operated in this fashion. Haralobob springs to my mind. Billy Walters has a book out recently. It’s how business has always been done.

    Sadly, AI is coming to sports wagering on both sides of the counter. That’s something to be worried about in a couple months though - not now.

    China’s gambling integrity is beyond question. Time has proven that out. He and Zod gave up this cesspool and that too impressed me.

    Do you have a blue twitter checkmark FTP? I didn’t think so.

     
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      chinamaniac: good post

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    Plutonium Sanlmar's Avatar
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    I’m a Mass guy and you can have my Betonline account. It has no banking info.. never did. Completely clean. Always bitcoin. I’m done with that phase of my life. You can’t beat the limits there.

    I have a legal Mass account that I have never deposited into but I can’t imagine you want anything to do with that. You can have the money in it for all I care.

    I’ve never had a local.

    Hit me up if you want.

    Cute kid, bud.

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    Platinum FRANKRIZZO's Avatar
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    Such an honest guy overall certainly shocking.

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    I suggest Chrissy Mitchell sign up, then turn around and sell those picks to his Elite Chums.

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    Brothers is this a good investment? I enjoy these types of ventures

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    China is a good sportsbettor and they've been banning him from a ton of books.

    This is kind of bullshit when you think about it, because they are basically only accepting losers or people who barely break even. These giant books shouldn't be doing such a thing. It's more understandable when the neighborhood bookie can't afford to have you keep beating him. Large, regulated books should not be allowed to ban winners. I can understand not taking huge action from known winners, but to ban them or cut them down to almost zero limits, that's a load of crap.

    China is trying to circumvent this. I have no problem with that. As Sanlmar said, he's not cheating. He's placing sportsbets legitimately and just getting around the dumb bans they keep putting on him for not being a fish.

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    Platinum ftpjesus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    China is a good sportsbettor and they've been banning him from a ton of books.

    This is kind of bullshit when you think about it, because they are basically only accepting losers or people who barely break even. These giant books shouldn't be doing such a thing. It's more understandable when the neighborhood bookie can't afford to have you keep beating him. Large, regulated books should not be allowed to ban winners. I can understand not taking huge action from known winners, but to ban them or cut them down to almost zero limits, that's a load of crap.

    China is trying to circumvent this. I have no problem with that. As Sanlmar said, he's not cheating. He's placing sportsbets legitimately and just getting around the dumb bans they keep putting on him for not being a fish.
    Allow me to play devils advocate here Druff which was my point in this whole thing and try not to claim hypocrisy generally but at the same time point out the fact those ok with this are in fact a little hypocritical. I’m going to ask a few questions.

    1. As somebody who supports a company’s right to make decisions on who they do or don’t do business with (say a baker who opposes gay marriage). Should not a business have the right to refuse to do business with somebody they believe is bad for business and their bottom line.
    It’s no different then casinos (outside of NJ obviously who can’t do to regulations) back off card counters legally and refuse action

    2. While I’m not suggesting China would do so at all by using other peoples accounts to bet it does somewhat seem a bit unethical and similarly to the card counter who wears a disguise to re enter a casino he was backed off of to continue play. Additionally it creates a massive tax mess as legit online books such as DK, MGM, etc are going to potentially file W2-Gs with incorrect social security numbers and people could end up with tax bills for amounts they shouldn’t owe not to mention China would be essentially committing tax evasion and arguably identity fraud (even with the other parties knowledge and permission) it’s no different then some illegal alien using somebody’s SSN here to work which we all knows happens.

    Just some food for thought was my point and the real life potential issues he’s creating not to mention some people indeed wouldn’t view it any different then somebody having multiple accounts on a poker site to play while not using them at the same time still amounts to a TOS violation at minimum but could still run legally afoul of regulators.

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    Plutonium Sanlmar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ftpjesus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    China is a good sportsbettor and they've been banning him from a ton of books.

    This is kind of bullshit when you think about it, because they are basically only accepting losers or people who barely break even. These giant books shouldn't be doing such a thing. It's more understandable when the neighborhood bookie can't afford to have you keep beating him. Large, regulated books should not be allowed to ban winners. I can understand not taking huge action from known winners, but to ban them or cut them down to almost zero limits, that's a load of crap.

    China is trying to circumvent this. I have no problem with that. As Sanlmar said, he's not cheating. He's placing sportsbets legitimately and just getting around the dumb bans they keep putting on him for not being a fish.
    Allow me to play devils advocate here Druff which was my point in this whole thing and try not to claim hypocrisy generally but at the same time point out the fact those ok with this are in fact a little hypocritical. I¬’m going to ask a few questions.

    1. As somebody who supports a company¬’s right to make decisions on who they do or don¬’t do business with (say a baker who opposes gay marriage). Should not a business have the right to refuse to do business with somebody they believe is bad for business and their bottom line.
    It¬’s no different then casinos (outside of NJ obviously who can¬’t do to regulations) back off card counters legally and refuse action

    2. While I¬’m not suggesting China would do so at all by using other peoples accounts to bet it does somewhat seem a bit unethical and similarly to the card counter who wears a disguise to re enter a casino he was backed off of to continue play. Additionally it creates a massive tax mess as legit online books such as DK, MGM, etc are going to potentially file W2-Gs with incorrect social security numbers and people could end up with tax bills for amounts they shouldn¬’t owe not to mention China would be essentially committing tax evasion and arguably identity fraud (even with the other parties knowledge and permission) it¬’s no different then some illegal alien using somebody¬’s SSN here to work which we all knows happens.

    Just some food for thought was my point and the real life potential issues he¬’s creating not to mention some people indeed wouldn¬’t view it any different then somebody having multiple accounts on a poker site to play while not using them at the same time still amounts to a TOS violation at minimum but could still run legally afoul of regulators.
    True gamblers believe if you spread a game you take all comers. Anything else is faggotry

    Old schoolers frowned on bum hunting back in the day

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    Brothers sports books should not be allowed to limit or ban winning players

    Lots of people want the license to book games. If somebody canít handle the risk of allowing a few winning bettors they shouldnít be granted the license.

    I do not get banned or limited anywhere. I am a recreational bettor just having a good time.

    Is this China guy good at picking games? Havenít seen him over in the sports betting thread. I saw he bet Celtics money line big at home the other night. Didnít think it was a smart bet personally

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    Plutonium Sanlmar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickyPipes View Post
    Brothers sports books should not be allowed to limit or ban winning players

    Lots of people want the license to book games. If somebody can’t handle the risk of allowing a few winning bettors they shouldn’t be granted the license.

    I do not get banned or limited anywhere. I am a recreational bettor just having a good time.

    Is this China guy good at picking games? Haven’t seen him over in the sports betting thread. I saw he bet Celtics money line big at home the other night. Didn’t think it was a smart bet personally
    He supports himself wagering sports. He has been a professional gambler longer than you’ve been alive. Nothing more needs to be said.

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    Plutonium Sanlmar's Avatar
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    Somewhere in the archives of this joint lies a Chinamaniac solo radio show. It was done about a decade ago.

    The pod was an hour long if iirc and in it he described his origin story and early arc as a poker player. He discussed backing and all matter of challenges. It was real as shit and I found it unique for that. There was no braggadocio. China has an interesting style. He is direct, doesn’t lack confidence and is sometimes prickly. He’s prolly softened some.

    Druff has never done anything similar by way of comparison. Druff is private concerning his personal game which is understandable. It paints a contrast. Why China chose to share that pod with us I’ll never know.

    I don’t want to hear about all the sideshow drama here. You live with someone for a decade you’re gonna experience some stuff. Relationships were deeper and more complex between PFA members back then. It would be impossible to explain that to a newer member like you, Nicky.

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    Plutonium simpdog's Avatar
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    I believe he made a mint in poker at one point, and then crypto.

    China is far from a saint, but I guess around here the bar is low.

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    Diamond chinamaniac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ftpjesus View Post
    To say the least itís a bit disappointing. Somebody whoís had a decent rep on this forum to openly be recruiting people to borrow their accounts so he can multiaccount is the epitome of hypocrisy and outright scummy. I understand his reasoning because heís gotten backed off a bunch of books but this is a fools errand as heís going to get caught especially openly advertising on Twitter as well as getting peoples accounts on those sports books shut down and banned. Not smart China not smart at all

    https://twitter.com/#!/x/status/1660407376464297985
    Do yourself a favor and google Pay-Per-Head Sportsbooks. Pay Per Head books are where the majority of professional sports bettors make a living because offshore and legal books don't want any smoke and limit people quickly. That is really no secret to those who sportsbet seriously or professionally.

    Massachusetts sports betting went legal in January and out of all of the books that are available or will be available (which is about 12 of them), when the smoke clears I am only limited at ONE of them. The one book I am limited on, I can walk into the sportsbook and bet whatever I want at the counter until they decide they want no more. So I have access to every book on the USA market in my own name and I probably will not even rifle thru these accounts because the low limits aren't really worth my time right now. You can lump in sportsbook giants like Bovada and Betonline as they aren't as clumsy as they once were and they would limit bets that I make extremely fast which can easily be verified by Druff, Daly , Simpdog or anyone else who bets regularly.

    Here is another thing, if I was looking to bet on other peoples legal accounts or offshore I wouldn't be looking around on twitter as I know about 1000 people I trust in Massachusetts who live within a 20 mile radius from me. Don't you think it would be easier for me to just have them bet for me if I really needed it? It wouldnt be that difficult and would be as easy as sending someone a text and having them bet something and there is nothing illegal about it.

    I know this is tough for you to do, but let's just think about this for a second in a clear rational way, IF I was banned on every legal book and wanted to bet I could just phone a friend or relative and say bet XY or Z for me and there is nothing illegal about this. Or if I wanted offshore action I could do the same exact thing over and over and over. I guess you don't pay attention to the sportsbetting thread on this forum.

    But that's besides the point. The golden age of legal sportsbooks has come and gone for serious bettors. 18 months ago you could log onto Draftkings and fire $5,000 per prop till you won $50,000 to $500,000 and they were cool with it. Logon today and try that and you would get limited after making 4 $500 sharp bets and most of the other sites are the same. As I said before, the limits on the high majority of these legal books is close to worthless to me.

    With that said if anyone has access to local bookies that use offshore software ( PPH or Pay Per Head) slide into my DMS and we can strike up a partnership and I will win and I will win very big. I am undefeated on every sportsbook I have ever bet on have gone thru probably close to 1000 accounts in the past 5 years.

    If anyone has any serious questions about sportsbetting I am all ears in this thread

     
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      NickyPipes: Nice brother

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanlmar View Post

    Every single one of the greats has operated in this fashion. Haralobob springs to my mind. Billy Walters has a book out recently. Itís how business has always been done.
    All true, it is a cat and mouse game. Frank B breaks it down well in this podcast last week and Voulgaris breaks this down in this podcast below.

    https://thehammer.bet/watch/inside-t...th-kevin-davis

    https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcas...=1000554000183

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayjami View Post
    I suggest Chrissy Mitchell sign up, then turn around and sell those picks to his Elite Chums.
    Problem is I would move the market too quick and too far for him or anyone to be profitable. He would be flipping coins and losing juice!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ftpjesus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    China is a good sportsbettor and they've been banning him from a ton of books.

    This is kind of bullshit when you think about it, because they are basically only accepting losers or people who barely break even. These giant books shouldn't be doing such a thing. It's more understandable when the neighborhood bookie can't afford to have you keep beating him. Large, regulated books should not be allowed to ban winners. I can understand not taking huge action from known winners, but to ban them or cut them down to almost zero limits, that's a load of crap.

    China is trying to circumvent this. I have no problem with that. As Sanlmar said, he's not cheating. He's placing sportsbets legitimately and just getting around the dumb bans they keep putting on him for not being a fish.
    Allow me to play devils advocate here Druff which was my point in this whole thing and try not to claim hypocrisy generally but at the same time point out the fact those ok with this are in fact a little hypocritical. I’m going to ask a few questions.



    2. While I’m not suggesting China would do so at all by using other peoples accounts to bet it does somewhat seem a bit unethical and similarly to the card counter who wears a disguise to re enter a casino he was backed off of to continue play. Additionally it creates a massive tax mess as legit online books such as DK, MGM, etc are going to potentially file W2-Gs with incorrect social security numbers and people could end up with tax bills for amounts they shouldn’t owe not to mention China would be essentially committing tax evasion and arguably identity fraud (even with the other parties knowledge and permission) it’s no different then some illegal alien using somebody’s SSN here to work which we all knows happens.


    If someone staked you in a poker tournament like the Main Event and gave you a 20% freeroll they would be on the hook for 80% of the taxes on a large win.

    Would be no different if someone gave you a 20 % freeroll and advised you on making bets. The 80 % portion of taxes on net wins that the backer would accrue could easily be drawn up and transferred from person A to person B by an attorney for like a $50 fee.

    And you could draw up a contract in either one of these scenarios ahead of time for a small price as well.

    I know this because this is my 15th year gambling professionally and 15th year paying gambling taxes and have had to deal with multiple scenarios very similar to both examples I had just given you and have gotten advice from multiple attorneys on all of these fronts.

    If your a pro gambler and you want to own houses and buy new cars and invest in any kind of investment ( and sleep well at night) then you pay your taxes. At the end of the day any taxes that a serious gambler avoids would be -EV because after investing in legit stuff your earn % will outrun inflation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NickyPipes View Post
    Brothers sports books should not be allowed to limit or ban winning players

    Lots of people want the license to book games. If somebody canít handle the risk of allowing a few winning bettors they shouldnít be granted the license.

    I do not get banned or limited anywhere. I am a recreational bettor just having a good time.

    Is this China guy good at picking games? Havenít seen him over in the sports betting thread. I saw he bet Celtics money line big at home the other night. Didnít think it was a smart bet personally
    Some books DO NOT limit winners. You could logon to an offshore like Bookmaker right now and bet whatever you want over and over again as they adjust the line and bet it as much as you would like or you could walk into Circa Sports in Las Vegas and do the same thing at the counter or on their app and they will never kick you out.

    And another thing FTPJESUS fails to realize is IF you are pounding multiple legal apps or offshores on multiple accounts at the same time with all of the same shit they can just freeze all of the funds and say you are a syndicate and they would point to the TOS and take the money.

    I typically don't bet "games" and have lost a decent amount on the Celtics and Bruins the past 2 seasons in playoff games. But there are reasons why I made these bets and part of it is to prime accounts with local square action. It is something I rarely do but there are certain scenarios where this can work in your favor giving your accounts longer shelf life.

    99% of my betting comes between September and Super Bowl and the majority of it is on small markets and player props. I don't post plays in the sportsbetting thread for a couple of reasons.

    1. I do not have time during peak betting hours

    2. Even if I did post my plays I would have moved the market to an unfavorable position for anyone who tailed.

    But I will prob post some Super Bowl player props next year because it is a very liquid market that does not move much.

     
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      NickyPipes: I don’t mind betting unfavorable positions pal

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanlmar View Post
    Somewhere in the archives of this joint lies a Chinamaniac solo radio show. It was done about a decade ago.

    The pod was an hour long if iirc and in it he described his origin story and early arc as a poker player. He discussed backing and all matter of challenges. It was real as shit and I found it unique for that. There was no braggadocio. China has an interesting style. He is direct, doesnít lack confidence and is sometimes prickly. Heís prolly softened some.

    Druff has never done anything similar by way of comparison. Druff is private concerning his personal game which is understandable. It paints a contrast. Why China chose to share that pod with us Iíll never know.

    I donít want to hear about all the sideshow drama here. You live with someone for a decade youíre gonna experience some stuff. Relationships were deeper and more complex between PFA members back then. It would be impossible to explain that to a newer member like you, Nicky.
    Pretty accurate description. I was a bit prickly and certainly have softened a lot. I enjoyed doing that podcast too. I probably will listen to it back again because there is a ton of shit I have forgot about and I am currently in the early stages of writing a book.

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    Quote Originally Posted by simpdog View Post
    I believe he made a mint in poker at one point, and then crypto.

    China is far from a saint, but I guess around here the bar is low.

    I did ok in poker for a the first handful of years which was enough to make a good living even the times I was backed ( looking back on this now getting backed was a huge mistake).

    The last 3 or 4 years of me playing pro online were by far my best years and I was fortunate to get out while being at the top of my poker earn whereas a good amount of players go broke if they have a final 2-3 year run before quitting.

    I didn't make a mint in crypto like some other guys but I did ok by right place right time when cashing in and out of poker sites and sportsbooks etc.

    However I always told myself that if I ever got the chance to play bigger when poker legalized online or if I went and played live I would press the action and take more risks because I was not good enough from a tech standpoint or from a mental standpoint ( Hard drugs and alcohol) from 2003-2008 to make money when the games were the easiest. I played for 6 to 9 months live pre-pandemic in Foxwoods and Encore Boston when it opened and the limit games sucked and I broke even but I made so many contacts from being in the poker room 4-5 days a week.

    I had been sports betting somewhat professionally for 4-5 years prior and every year my bet sizes were increasing. When sports came back at the end of 2020 I fired really hard like I said I would with poker and things worked out well which I expected because I knew the edge I had and that kind of made up for me missing the juice during the real poker boom when games were good.

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