Attention Software Devs/ IT Nerds

[Starbucks Spunk Bucket]

I am currently studying a Masters in Software Development, more as a hobby than anything but starting to consider it more and more as a viable career option

Any advice as to which realms to go into/ explore/ specialise in? Or what to avoid, watch out for etc.

I appreciate it’s a very broad question but any sincere advice would be much appreciated. I don’t know what I don’t know- esp re: impacts of AI, ML etc on future of jobs

Thank you kindly in advance

[sonatine]

AI/ML require heavy math buy ins because in essence those roles are data scientist roles. those are definitely best in slot for the near future tho but youre going to be competing for jobs with 19 year old chinese kids with math phds.

vanilla software engineer / software dev roles are squishy, the majority of people who are getting laid off are in those roles. very oversaturated market imo.

but i kinda feel like the key here is to simply hyper fixate on whatever you actually enjoy, and let that passion be your selling point. thats a tried and true winner in this biz.

[lol wow]

AND UR WELCOME FOR that straight heat from the one of the squishiest people possibly ever

[lol wow]

also young squish we will see you on the patio for drinks once the weather becomes appropriate

[sonatine]

im going to actually make a suggestion and its going to be a banger so buckle up.


consider crypto/web3/defi oriented skills.


the whole industry might vanish in 3 years but youll make a hell of a bag before it happens.

[Dan Druff]

I am currently studying a Masters in Software Development, more as a hobby than anything but starting to consider it more and more as a viable career option

Any advice as to which realms to go into/ explore/ specialise in? Or what to avoid, watch out for etc.

I appreciate it’s a very broad question but any sincere advice would be much appreciated. I don’t know what I don’t know- esp re: impacts of AI, ML etc on future of jobs

Thank you kindly in advance

So you're taking the "learn to code" internet meme to heart. Not a bad idea, actually.

sonatine is correct that simply getting a Masters in Software Development won't land you a job in the AI field, but don't let that discourage you.

A lot of companies need coders, and there are government jobs with that skillset requirement, as well. It may take a little time to land somewhere, but once you have the skills down, you should be able to get employed in that field eventually.

That's the good news.

The bad news is that working as a coder can be frustrating and soul-draining. You will be expected in many positions to work a lot of unpaid overtime, and if you object, they will lay you off and hire some no-life introverted kid who will be happy to take your place.

I know I'm getting a bit ahead of things, but the key at interviews is to gently ask how many hours per week the typical software developer puts in, and then go from there. You can't act obsessed with working 40 hours or they'll peg you as a lazy asshole, but it's also very helpful to know if this is one of those joints which hires 20 developers to do the job of 50.

This song is 16 years old, but a lot of it still applies today.

[Starbucks Spunk Bucket]

Thanks guys.

Yeah I am aware of the pitfalls Druff, and there is no chance I want to become a "code monkey" - good song though it is

I'm doing this because I want to break away from the chains of corporate as much as possible, and am willing to take risks in the next year or two. In fact I am setting time aside to explore and learn as much as possible.

Thanks for the suggestion sonatine; I am going to look into that. Something exciting and emerging is more my bag: unfortunately although competent in maths I am definitely not Chinese kid PhD standard lol, so AI is maybe not my path.

[sonatine]

Thanks guys.

Yeah I am aware of the pitfalls Druff, and there is no chance I want to become a "code monkey" - good song though it is

I'm doing this because I want to break away from the chains of corporate as much as possible, and am willing to take risks in the next year or two. In fact I am setting time aside to explore and learn as much as possible.

Thanks for the suggestion sonatine; I am going to look into that. Something exciting and emerging is more my bag: unfortunately although competent in maths I am definitely not Chinese kid PhD standard lol, so AI is maybe not my path.

let me add a bit of an asterisk to my AI/ML comment; i got into AI/ML in 2018. starting base for a lot of AI/ML gigs then was around $400k a year, and the total comp among the jersey hedge funds etc was easily 2x that amount.

with the current proliferation of AI/ML, there may be a corresponding widening of related areas of expertise. like there really might be entry level python / R gigs where you dont need to know how to express an alg on a white board, you just need to have the requisite skills to implement other peoples algs, or build / maintain the transaction paths between your clients and those algs.

so before you discard that based on my advise, take the time to look at the jobs wanted ads on linkedin and see whats changed. you wont be buying a house cash after your first year but squirreling away 6 figs in an IRA every year might actually be on the table.

[Starbucks Spunk Bucket]

Good shout, will be keeping tabs on job postings as a yardstick for skills to be aiming for at least.

This MSc has us delving into Java, Javascript, PHP etc. but I am getting the impression I am going to need to do a lot more extra-curricular activity on my own obvs.

That said any and all pointers are welcome at this point, it's exciting to be learning new things after so long spinning my wheels.

[sonatine]

Good shout, will be keeping tabs on job postings as a yardstick for skills to be aiming for at least.

This MSc has us delving into Java, Javascript, PHP etc. but I am getting the impression I am going to need to do a lot more extra-curricular activity on my own obvs.

That said any and all pointers are welcome at this point, it's exciting to be learning new things after so long spinning my wheels.

id urge you to focus on python and/or r if you want to get into an emerging tech.

like, fluency in PHP is about as pragmatic as learning Aramaic at this point.

java / javascript are certainly big players in emerging spaces. when i went looking for talent to turn up a nodejs based open source framework for an NFT project, there was literally no one available.

and the thing is, im not sure if they were all booked or if they were like weve dipped a toe and will never try to work with these janky frameworks again but seriously it was weird and it made me nervous. make of that what you will.

[Starbucks Spunk Bucket]

Yeah everyone & their brother seems to be talking about Python

Java seems to still be relevant, I guess it’s not exactly fashionable but still highly regarded and not just for big corp. With JS my impression is people are put off by how hacky it is whilst acknowledging it’s still completely necessary

My concern is the Masters isn’t exactly overflowing with relevance for today’s emergent tech, and it’s definitely more aimed at teaching what corporate industry partners want to see from grads- but at least it should give a good understanding of some fundamentals.

Towards the end of it there is an option to do specialist modules on AI, cybersecurity, cloud computing etc. or else do a significant project of your own. Will see when the time comes, I’m still very early in this journey but it’s good to start to get a lay of the land before going off in the wrong direction. Especially as you are supposed to start applying for jobs way in advance... My end goal is some kind of freelance /autonomous type gig but obvs will need plenty of experience before that can even begin to materialise.

[sonatine]

Yeah everyone & their brother seems to be talking about Python

Java seems to still be relevant, I guess it’s not exactly fashionable but still highly regarded and not just for big corp. With JS my impression is people are put off by how hacky it is whilst acknowledging it’s still completely necessary

My concern is the Masters isn’t exactly overflowing with relevance for today’s emergent tech, and it’s definitely more aimed at teaching what corporate industry partners want to see from grads- but at least it should give a good understanding of some fundamentals.

Towards the end of it there is an option to do specialist modules on AI, cybersecurity, cloud computing etc. or else do a significant project of your own. Will see when the time comes, I’m still very early in this journey but it’s good to start to get a lay of the land before going off in the wrong direction. Especially as you are supposed to start applying for jobs way in advance... My end goal is some kind of freelance /autonomous type gig but obvs will need plenty of experience before that can even begin to materialise.

the nice thing about a masters isnt the boots on the ground stuff, that all comes from independent study, but if you want to eventually move into D or C level slots and get your bag, that masters will help.

[Sloppy Joe]

Thanks guys.

Yeah I am aware of the pitfalls Druff, and there is no chance I want to become a "code monkey" - good song though it is

I'm doing this because I want to break away from the chains of corporate as much as possible, and am willing to take risks in the next year or two. In fact I am setting time aside to explore and learn as much as possible.

Thanks for the suggestion sonatine; I am going to look into that. Something exciting and emerging is more my bag: unfortunately although competent in maths I am definitely not Chinese kid PhD standard lol, so AI is maybe not my path.

let me add a bit of an asterisk to my AI/ML comment; i got into AI/ML in 2018. starting base for a lot of AI/ML gigs then was around $400k a year, and the total comp among the jersey hedge funds etc was easily 2x that amount.

with the current proliferation of AI/ML, there may be a corresponding widening of related areas of expertise. like there really might be entry level python / R gigs where you dont need to know how to express an alg on a white board, you just need to have the requisite skills to implement other peoples algs, or build / maintain the transaction paths between your clients and those algs.

so before you discard that based on my advise, take the time to look at the jobs wanted ads on linkedin and see whats changed. you wont be buying a house cash after your first year but squirreling away 6 figs in an IRA every year might actually be on the table.

This is my current sweet spot after I completed a Master's over the past couple of years after pivoting away from marketing.

Still spending ~15-20 hours per week self-learning a range of things to stay fresh, but loads of roles like this out there.

[Starbucks Spunk Bucket]

So a couple of opportunities came up to get my foot in the door with some companies working with kdb/ in the financial / capital markets / banking space who are looking for grads in STEM subjects.

I know these are lucrative long term but I think i’d be pigeonholing myself, one of them even works with their own language called Q. They also work with Python but the company reviews are bad.

They are more like consultancies working with clients and involve travel and being onsite etc. fuck that. And the lack of transferrable skills

I think I would like to learn more about design and implementing apps and websites so think I’m gonna pass

I quit my job recently so it’s tempting to take the first thing that comes along strictly to get some experience under my belt as a dev but I think this would be a mistake and I’d just end up where I was before

There’s plenty of time to experiment and see what year 2 of the master brings, the good news is it seems it’s going to be easy enough to get some kind of employment straight out the gate

[sonatine]

So a couple of opportunities came up to get my foot in the door with some companies working with kdb/ in the financial / capital markets / banking space who are looking for grads in STEM subjects.

I know these are lucrative long term but I think i’d be pigeonholing myself, one of them even works with their own language called Q. They also work with Python but the company reviews are bad.

They are more like consultancies working with clients and involve travel and being onsite etc. fuck that. And the lack of transferrable skills

I think I would like to learn more about design and implementing apps and websites so think I’m gonna pass

I quit my job recently so it’s tempting to take the first thing that comes along strictly to get some experience under my belt as a dev but I think this would be a mistake and I’d just end up where I was before

There’s plenty of time to experiment and see what year 2 of the master brings, the good news is it seems it’s going to be easy enough to get some kind of employment straight out the gate

its a bit cliche at this point but the best advice i ever got when i got into the business in earnest was to take a lot of jobs and get a lot of exposure to a broad spectrum of tech. obviously everything is in total shitshow mode these days but if you skip from gig to gig every 7-9 months, in 3 years youll be able to land senior level work / pay without bullshitting your way through the door.

[SlowRoll]

I read through this thread this morning. Our career paths sound similar, so I hope I can give some helpful advice.

I think I would like to learn more about design and implementing apps and websites so think I’m gonna pass

In my recent experience this is a great path.

These suggestions are specifically for someone in your situations - someone who has gone through an strong software development program and has a good understanding of what software development entails. It will not be useful for someone who went through a 6 week coding bootcamp and declared themselves a coding ninja.

In general, you should seek opportunities to explore, and contribute to both well designed systems, and poorly designed systems.

• Become very good at troubleshooting issues and learning how to implement quick and effective short term fixes; as well as architecting larger solutions that address the root cause of the problem you fixed.
• Become familiar with cloud services; probably best to focus on aws. Learn what is available and what types of problems these services can solve. You'd be shocked at how many companies (even startups) have little knowledge of cloud technologies, or are scared to make the leap.
• Learn how to contribute to the agile development lifecycle. You will wind up on an agile team. Being able to jump in and immediately contribute, understand the cadence, and help continuously improve will keep your career moving forward from dev/senior dev -> wherever you'd like to go.
• Learn to provide useful, lean documentation for your work. Your co workers will love you for this.

The industry is full of coders who can complete well defined coding tasks like rock stars. Chat GPT can now do that too...
If you can define the parts of a project, put those pieces together, call out any potential issues, and be able to quickly troubleshoot issues in the system that you designed - you will be a valuable asset.
Design software that uses components that can easily be swapped out for better options. This is critical.

As Todd mentioned - the hours are certainly a thing to consider.
Remote works makes this much more bearable.
Companies are also more tech based than they were 15 years ago, so the expectation of all devs working long hours has somewhat gone away in favor of more effective project planning and some type of on-call schedule.

Finally; find a role working on a product that interests you.
Dev jobs are not hard to find if you don't care what you are building.
You're on a gambling forum; there are a lot of opportunities for developers in that space right now.

It is very common to jump around between companies. Leave gracefully, despite any bitterness that you may have. You will likely come across your co workers sometime in your career.

[Sanlmar]

If I was in my twenties again I would spend every waking moment consumed with integrating machine learning and AI into existing apps for business owners.

80 hours a week could possibly be a labor of love. Being consumed by something isn’t a curse.

Kinda wish I was part of it myself.

My kid is a dev and she paints a picture of every employee atm deciding how to use AI independently at her (mature) startup

[BetCheckBet]

I’m still angry at my highschool. Back in 1995 I decided I wanted to take grade 10 computing. The problem was the highschool wanted me to take grade 9 computers first which was literally a course on how to turn on a computer and use WordPerfect. Also I hated the idea of being the old kid in class with a bunch of grade 9s. So I ended up never taking a computer course and missed out on probably an amazing profession for me.

To this day the highest education I ever got for computers was learning to code html for earth 2025. In the small chance that anyone here played I ran team for the la costra nostra alliance, along with sons of liberty, and new monsters.

Looking back it was an amazing game

https://annex.fandom.com/wiki/Earth:_2025

[Starbucks Spunk Bucket]

Well folks, figured I’d entertain you all with an update

I got my first dev (graduate, full stack) job offer today! Entry role obvs and I’m waiting for potentially a different offer as well but feels great to get something secured for after the MSc.

Obviously I have a hell of a long way to go but it’s nice to get some form of validation for my efforts; as you all know, this shit ain’t easy and imposter syndrome is seemingly going to be a companion along for the ride henceforth.

More importantly I’m getting the chance to get my feet under the table and gain some wide experience with a modern tech stack…as you all know it can be hard getting your first shot in a new career.

After a year of programming (java) and learning computing fundamentals/ testing, we did a databases module and now finishing off with software engineering and web development (html css & js /node / express, no PHP thankfully) before the final project (still not sure whether to do the specialised modules or the big project).

I have been enjoying the more practical stuff, and growing in confidence that if I apply myself I can maybe make this career work!

It’s been great putting in some extra effort and finding that I can now troubleshoot things faster than before, or leverage and understand resources quicker. It feels like the knowledge compounds, kind of like how learning another language makes the following one easier. And obviously programming was taught using generalised concepts (OOP etc) so that you can pick up the basics in other programming languages.

Interestingly, I have found that studying software development has helped me develop (life lessons) in ways I never would have thought of. Some things that come to mind are learning not to be overwhelmed by the wall of code and breaking things down into steps; it has helped me with perfectionism which I have always struggled with. I love how you can always improve and the power of abstraction. I’ve started reading “Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs” and it’s got me thinking.

Thanks so much for the supportive nature on show in this thread. I am really appreciative of the way you guys took the time to give detailed & heartfelt advice. It gave me confidence that this could be the right industry for me, far from the bs in my previous career.

I will continue to update and provide more detail over time.

[Sanlmar]

Exciting stuff spunk.

Hopefully this isn’t remote. The networking is so critical.

You have any tattoos or piercings?

Back in the day I wrote a lot about Zappos, Tony Hseih and my Vegas daughter. She absolutely luckboxed into a dev career. She has had several gigs since then but the core Zappos alumni have looked out for her. She made one or two job missteps and was quickly extricated by some of the Zappos mafia. Storybook stuff.

She’s management now which is more a tribute to networking and less software chops.

Don’t ignore those around you. Enjoy them genuinely.

She no longer has dreadlocks but this hasn’t hurt her career as far as I can tell.