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Thread: Say goodbye to WSOP Lammers

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Say goodbye to WSOP Lammers

    https://twitter.com/Kevmath/status/1621238729703563264

    Buy-in chips, also known as lammers, were awarded at WSOP satellites. They had no cash value, and could only be used to buy into WSOP events or WSOP satellites. However, for years people were allowed to sell them to other players, as long as they didn't cause a nuisance while doing it.

    In 2021, near the end of the WSOP, they clamped down on the selling of lammers, which I thought was very unfair to players who had always been used to it. In 2022, the unofficial policy was that lammers were allowed again, but some cashiers were still refusing to take them. It depended upon who you got. I never worried about this because I rarely played satellites, and when I did, it was to actually enter WSOP events in the future.

    Now the whole thing is done. Instead, winners will get "tournament buy in credits" in their Caesars Reward accounts, which presumably are non-transferrable.

    Anyone playing satellites should know this. If you don't have a use for the tournament buy in credits, don't play.

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    Platinum Jayjami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    https://twitter.com/Kevmath/status/1621238729703563264

    Buy-in chips, also known as lammers, were awarded at WSOP satellites. They had no cash value, and could only be used to buy into WSOP events or WSOP satellites. However, for years people were allowed to sell them to other players, as long as they didn't cause a nuisance while doing it.

    In 2021, near the end of the WSOP, they clamped down on the selling of lammers, which I thought was very unfair to players who had always been used to it. In 2022, the unofficial policy was that lammers were allowed again, but some cashiers were still refusing to take them. It depended upon who you got. I never worried about this because I rarely played satellites, and when I did, it was to actually enter WSOP events in the future.

    Now the whole thing is done. Instead, winners will get "tournament buy in credits" in their Caesars Reward accounts, which presumably are non-transferrable.

    Anyone playing satellites should know this. If you don't have a use for the tournament buy in credits, don't play.
    I don’t play them anymore, but in the mid-2000s, single table satellites were profitable for me. I never paid more than half price for an entry until 2011, which also happened to be my first and still best cash. The formula was pretty simple: look for opportunities to double up, and then get heads up, and then do a deal. I also chopped up a 3 seat a main event satellite 5 ways for $7500 cash one year.

    In a typical $1500 satellite, 3 $500 Lammers are in play. Depending on the deal, you’d end up with one or two. My question is: are they going to allow those chops to take place, and then credit the players according to the deal, or is one guy going to have to take the $1500 credit, and then pay the other players out of pocket cash?

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    Gold Ryback_feed_me_more's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    https://twitter.com/Kevmath/status/1621238729703563264

    Buy-in chips, also known as lammers, were awarded at WSOP satellites. They had no cash value, and could only be used to buy into WSOP events or WSOP satellites. However, for years people were allowed to sell them to other players, as long as they didn't cause a nuisance while doing it.

    In 2021, near the end of the WSOP, they clamped down on the selling of lammers, which I thought was very unfair to players who had always been used to it. In 2022, the unofficial policy was that lammers were allowed again, but some cashiers were still refusing to take them. It depended upon who you got. I never worried about this because I rarely played satellites, and when I did, it was to actually enter WSOP events in the future.

    Now the whole thing is done. Instead, winners will get "tournament buy in credits" in their Caesars Reward accounts, which presumably are non-transferrable.

    Anyone playing satellites should know this. If you don't have a use for the tournament buy in credits, don't play.
    The question is do the credits work like TCs on Pokerstars used to. I mean Id be ok with the ability to rack up buy in credits in some satellites to lower a buyin for say the ME.. This is even better if they were transferable to possibly use on WSOP.COM or GGPoker Online. I mean why not, if ya ask me at least they dont go to waste. But, knowing the fail that is Ceasers with WSOP is, the BICs will only apply to a specific tournament and its use it or lose it. Im not sure they realize the stupidity of that if they do, it will literally hurt their vig take on Satellites if people can only win one BIC for one tournament meaning ultimately less tips for dealers and staff. Yes they are that damn short sighted to not see the law of unintended consequences on this one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayjami View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    https://twitter.com/Kevmath/status/1621238729703563264

    Buy-in chips, also known as lammers, were awarded at WSOP satellites. They had no cash value, and could only be used to buy into WSOP events or WSOP satellites. However, for years people were allowed to sell them to other players, as long as they didn't cause a nuisance while doing it.

    In 2021, near the end of the WSOP, they clamped down on the selling of lammers, which I thought was very unfair to players who had always been used to it. In 2022, the unofficial policy was that lammers were allowed again, but some cashiers were still refusing to take them. It depended upon who you got. I never worried about this because I rarely played satellites, and when I did, it was to actually enter WSOP events in the future.

    Now the whole thing is done. Instead, winners will get "tournament buy in credits" in their Caesars Reward accounts, which presumably are non-transferrable.

    Anyone playing satellites should know this. If you don't have a use for the tournament buy in credits, don't play.
    I don’t play them anymore, but in the mid-2000s, single table satellites were profitable for me. I never paid more than half price for an entry until 2011, which also happened to be my first and still best cash. The formula was pretty simple: look for opportunities to double up, and then get heads up, and then do a deal. I also chopped up a 3 seat a main event satellite 5 ways for $7500 cash one year.

    In a typical $1500 satellite, 3 $500 Lammers are in play. Depending on the deal, you’d end up with one or two. My question is: are they going to allow those chops to take place, and then credit the players according to the deal, or is one guy going to have to take the $1500 credit, and then pay the other players out of pocket cash?
    Maybe Kevmath knows but if I were to guess the morons at Ceasers will basically tell them to work it out among themselves but only one person is getting the BIC (yes Im going to trademark this term because this is Ceasers poking players in the eye with a ball point pen essentially).

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    Platinum Jayjami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryback_feed_me_more View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayjami View Post
    I don’t play them anymore, but in the mid-2000s, single table satellites were profitable for me. I never paid more than half price for an entry until 2011, which also happened to be my first and still best cash. The formula was pretty simple: look for opportunities to double up, and then get heads up, and then do a deal. I also chopped up a 3 seat a main event satellite 5 ways for $7500 cash one year.

    In a typical $1500 satellite, 3 $500 Lammers are in play. Depending on the deal, you’d end up with one or two. My question is: are they going to allow those chops to take place, and then credit the players according to the deal, or is one guy going to have to take the $1500 credit, and then pay the other players out of pocket cash?
    Maybe Kevmath knows but if I were to guess the morons at Ceasers will basically tell them to work it out among themselves but only one person is getting the BIC (yes Im going to trademark this term because this is Ceasers poking players in the eye with a ball point pen essentially).
    I’ve never understood CET’s opposition to selling lammers. It creates more satellite tables, which are quite profitable. I guess they think it creates less for them cash in the regular events, ie. the holder will be “forced” to use them. Back in the day, players bought and sold them in line as a courtesy.

    BTW, my first trip to the WSOP was in 1999. I absolutely got crushed playing single table limit hold’em satellites against guys like TJ Cloutier and Tony Ma (maybe the best limit hold’em player ever). I learned my lesson, built my bankroll back up, and didn’t return until 2006.

    Fun fact: In a multi seat satellite, Noel Furling cracked my AA with 33, went on to win an seat, and became the first satellite entrant to win the main event. So I “helped him” become the champ!

     
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      sah_24: ha brutal
    Last edited by Jayjami; 02-06-2023 at 09:35 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayjami View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryback_feed_me_more View Post

    Maybe Kevmath knows but if I were to guess the morons at Ceasers will basically tell them to work it out among themselves but only one person is getting the BIC (yes Im going to trademark this term because this is Ceasers poking players in the eye with a ball point pen essentially).
    I’ve never understood CET’s opposition to selling lammers. It creates more satellite tables, which are quite profitable. I guess they think it creates less for them cash in the regular events, ie. the holder will be “forced” to use them. Back in the day, players bought and sold them in line as a courtesy.

    BTW, my first trip to the WSOP was in 1999. I absolutely got crushed playing single table limit hold’em satellites against guys like TJ Cloutier and Tony Ma (maybe the best limit hold’em player ever). I learned my lesson, built my bankroll back up, and didn’t return until 2006.

    Fun fact: In a multi seat satellite, Noel Furling cracked my AA with 33, went on to win an seat, and became the first satellite entrant to win the main event. So I “helped him” become the champ!
    Leave it to Caesars and the wsop to continue to ruin their product. They continually come up with new ways to make it worse for the players. Lammers were great. Jack Effel imo has ruined the whole brand.

    But people keep showing up, paying higher and higher rake, earlier start times for tournaments, more and more incompetent dealers and a TD who plays favorites so blatantly it makes you sick. Ladies and gents, the good ol wsop!!

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    Master of Props Daly's Avatar
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    The “Devils advocate” here Im sure is related to taxes and cash discipline.

    The Hare Rock in Hollywood is notorious on breaking players balls about chips. They will let you tip the dealer and pay/tip the drink girl or massage girl and that is it. You try and give your wife playing at the same table $25 and you will get yelled at and they will make her give it back (non poker here). You try and pay a freind a $100 on some prop bet and they will cut you off and exclude you from the property. If you win some thousand dollars + at a table game - when you go cash in they will not give you the money unless they can justify that it was you that won the $$ and it was done there. I won 12K playing baccarat in the fall - went to the cage - they had security over asking for my license and pertinent information….. all because the pit boss forgot to press a button that i was done playing and had won the money. They were literally starting to walk me down the road that they needed to open an investigation any may not be paid out right away.

    Not to turn political but some of those 100K new IRS agents are out there tracking cash and they are looking at casinos. Id expect cash movement to become more of a pain in the ass not less

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    https://twitter.com/Kevmath/status/1626796961327206401


    A radio listener brought up the question of legality. They suggested that it's illegal in Nevada to confiscate these credits and not cash them out. They might be correct. Then again, Caesars confiscates RCs after 6 months of inactivity, so maybe they can do it using a similar mechanism.

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    Platinum ftpjesus's Avatar
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    Problem solved and for once the WSOP did the smart thing. People will be able to just get cash casino chips for satellites if they wish it appears. No need the sell the lammers because WSOP will be offering full cash value upfront it appears. Guessing there’s a loophole somewhere.

    https://www.wsop.com/2023/2023-WSOP-...gBF9rbENnJptQU

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