Ethan "Rampage" Yau wins WPT Wynn event on bullet #2, controversy ensues because he only sold one bullet

[Dan Druff]

Ethan "Rampage" Yau just won the WPT Wynn High Roller Event, for $894k. He's been seen on the Hustler Casino Live stream this year, and does a lot of social media stuff involving his high stakes play. I believe he's only 23 or 24 years old.


Rampage sold action to the High Roller, which had a $25k buyin.

Embedded Tweet

https://twitter.com/rampagepoker/status/1602131554213691392

He then busted.

At the last minute, Rampage decided to fire a second bullet. He had not sold action for this bullet, and it was a last-minute decision to fire a second time.

Embedded Tweet

https://twitter.com/rampagepoker/status/1602163759459446789


He was doing great on this second bullet, and knowing that nobody who bought the first bullet had a piece of this, he made an offer to the public to refund all first bullet buyers if he outright won the event:

Embedded Tweet

https://twitter.com/rampagepoker/status/1602183513612001280



However, he chunked most of it off, and looked likely to bubble:

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https://twitter.com/rampagepoker/status/1602456056265072641



However, not only didn't he bubble, he won the event! He decided to break off even more money, and give the first bullet buyers 3x their money BACK, instead of the zero they were entitled to getting.

Embedded Tweet

https://twitter.com/rampagepoker/status/1602604728621314064




Unfortunately, this generous story doesn't have all that happy of an ending. Rampage is now taking heat from people, both from amateurs who didn't understand that Rampage was within his rights not to give anyone a piece of #2, and from pros for giving any money back at all.

I will comment in the next post.

[Dan Druff]

I was exactly in Rampage's spot about 4 years ago, though on a smaller scale.

I busted the WSOP $1500 Mixed Omaha on my first bullet. I did not know it was a re-entry event, as the other $1500s I was used to playing did not have such re-entries (such as $1500 Limit Holdem).

I really wanted to play a second bullet, but hadn't accounted for it when I sold my WSOP packages. What did I do? Ultimately, I decided I was playing on my own dime. The problem was that I could not contact investors within those few minutes to ask them whether they wanted to send money to buy that additional bullet. There was no way to fairly handle this, other than to take 100% of myself on bullet #2, and then post the receipts for both bullets if I cashed (in order to prove I hadn't pulled any shenanigans).

It looked like I was on the way to cash, as the second bullet went quite well. However, I took a horrible beat on the river for a huge pot, and I did not cash bullet #2 either. So there was no controversy what I owed anyone, because I cashed zero point zero on both bullets combined.

However, had I cashed, I would have kept 100% of those winnings. If I did win (or come close to winning) the event, I probably would have done what Rampage did, and at least given a refund to bullet #1 people, just as a courtesy.

Rampage had no obligation to give anyone anything, as bullet #2 was on his own dime, and he did not ever sell pieces of that.


Shaun Deeb thought it set a "bad precedent" that he gave a refund at all, stating that bullets are all separate, and it will create a false expectation for buyers of other players:

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https://twitter.com/shaundeeb/status/1602754278359121922

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https://twitter.com/shaundeeb/status/1602819295645298688



Doug Polk essentially said the same thing:

Embedded Tweet

https://twitter.com/DougPolkVids/status/1602719596213149696



And then Will Jaffe, who doesn't seem to like Polk very much, released a "tough convo" bashing Doug:

Embedded Tweet

https://twitter.com/dankness3/status/1602807202053488642



More next post...

[Dan Druff]

I do not agree with Rampage's critics here.

Not only wasn't he expected to give anything to anyone, but this doesn't set a bad precedent at all. Rampage gave this refund as a courtesy to his buyers, in order to both celebrate his win and avoid looking bad to those who don't understand.

While I understand the points being raised by Deeb and Polk, I don't agree with them. It was an act of generosity. It should be celebrated. When people complain in the future that they don't get paid when a horse cashes on a bullet they didn't buy, at that point it can be explained to them. It should never be a bad thing for a poker winner to hand out free money to recent backers. That's his own business if he wants to do it.


After my Mixed Omaha thing in 2018, I decided to prevent such problems in the future by pre-selling both bullets, and then issuing refunds for any bullets I don't play. This prevents the situation from coming up, and that's probably what Rampage should have done, as well. I'm sure next time, if he sells action in a mult-bullet tournament, he will do something similar.


On a personal note, Rampage was one of the influencers who was given free WPT satellite seats by WPT Global, with the agreement that he would give away anything he won. He ended up with one seat to give away, and since it was not ever shown on his Instagram or Twitter who won (only in a self-destructing Instagram "story"), I asked him about it. He first gave me a passive-aggressive answer, which then led to some of his fan boys bashing me. After others got on his case for his flippant response, he later apologized to me (publicly) for responding that way. Okay, fine. No harm, no foul. I only asked him because of the Nemo/Thallo WPT giveaway scandal, which had just occurred.

[Dan Druff]

Embedded Tweet

https://twitter.com/DougPolkVids/status/1602711987514998785

Embedded Tweet

https://twitter.com/rampagepoker/status/1602731199541248004

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https://twitter.com/DougPolkVids/status/1602741478777708544

Embedded Tweet

https://twitter.com/bmdraeger/status/1602870190739320832


(BTW, Doug's math is wrong. Rampage only sold 25%, for a total of $6250, so he only refunded $18,750, not $75k.)

[4BET]

Correct he didn’t owe anyone a dime but hold on here

My big problem is if I bought a piece of him in 25k he bust then play on his own and win? BS

I would have bought piece of both bullets. I would think man that’s
fked up I wanted a piece of 2nd and didn’t get a chance.

He should have sold for 2 bullets in the 1st place then refund if he didn’t play. Bottom line.

You forget a lot of people buying are not poker pros. I could imagine say I bought a piece and tell the better half I bought a piece of this guy in the 25k for a sweat. He wins and I try to explain to her “ Well he won but I get nothing”

Wouldn’t make any sense to her. She would be like WTF. Then I would have to explain and still it’s BS. Sell for 2 to begin with

[Dan Druff]

Correct he didn’t owe anyone a dime but hold on here

My big problem is if I bought a piece of him in 25k he bust then play on his own and win? BS

I would have bought piece of both bullets. I would think man that’s
fked up I wanted a piece of 2nd and didn’t get a chance.

He should have sold for 2 bullets in the 1st place then refund if he didn’t play. Bottom line.

You forget a lot of people buying are not poker pros. I could imagine say I bought a piece and tell the better half I bought a piece of this guy in the 25k for a sweat. He wins and I try to explain to her “ Well he won but I get nothing”

Wouldn’t make any sense to her. She would be like WTF. Then I would have to explain and still it’s BS. Sell for 2 to begin with

Yes, the weird look of the second bullet versus first bullet thing is why he paid them something. As you said, many of the piece buyers are amateurs who are fans of his on social media, and he was afraid he might piss everyone off.

I agree he should have sold two bullets in the first place. I think he initially believed he'd only play one bullet, and then at the last minute decided to fire a second. Kinda similar to my 2018 story where I only sold one bullet, not realizing a second one was even possible, and then wanted to play a second. Like Rampage, I kinda feared everyone getting pissed off if I cashed big, even though the guys buying pieces here understand everything better than Rampage's fan base. Thanks to that bad beat I took, it ended up being a non-issue, as I didn't cash.

[4BET]

Your 2nd bullet was different, You didn’t know was a rebuy if you did probably would have sold for a 2nd and if not you clearly state that in your sell a piece thread.

If I had bought a piece of your tournament you bust then buy on your own and win I wouldn’t have been pissed you overlooked that you could rebuy

You shouldn’t feel bad about buying 2nd bullet if you would have won. You spend your time and money to go there and wanted to give it another shot.

Ethan seems to be a great person, Honest, Fair etc. Just saying I would be a little salty had I bought a piece of 1st bullet. This could be a lesson I guess if you ever buy a piece make sure the one playing has your cell #

I would have wanted a text when he decided to play 2nd and could have Zelled the cash in minutes

[Daly]

So you are telling me a bunch of people who make $$ for clicks, directly and indirectly, are offering opinions on something that has nothing to do with them what-so-ever?

[Daly]

Funny this came up this week because some sports books took some heat for refunding anyone who bet K Murray player prop overs. Calling it “moral hazard”. (Who got hurt first 5 min if the game)

What they don't understand is the books are happy to refund this as a long term investment because anyone betting player overs on a prime time games most popular player is as ploppy as they come.

[Small_Banana]

I don't play tournament poker. Is there an incentive for someone to play a higher variance strategy on their 1st bullet if they sold pieces for bullet #1 but didn't sell pieces for bullet #2?

[JeffDime]

I don't play tournament poker. Is there an incentive for someone to play a higher variance strategy on their 1st bullet if they sold pieces for bullet #1 but didn't sell pieces for bullet #2?

Absolutely. They sold off pieces and are risking less. So I would say there is def incentive to play higher variance if you know you have a second bullet in the chamber. I am no expert but I don’t know why shares just aren’t diluted proportionally if multiple bullets are fired. I would think that would be a fair to go about it.

[Dan Druff]

I don't play tournament poker. Is there an incentive for someone to play a higher variance strategy on their 1st bullet if they sold pieces for bullet #1 but didn't sell pieces for bullet #2?

Absolutely. They sold off pieces and are risking less. So I would say there is def incentive to play higher variance if you know you have a second bullet in the chamber. I am no expert but I don’t know why shares just aren’t diluted proportionally if multiple bullets are fired. I would think that would be a fair to go about it.

It's not fair to the player to give the first bullet backers anything other than zero if the first bullet busts. Because if the first bullet DOESN'T bust, then they get 100% of what they bought. Therefore, it is not fair for them to still expect a percentage if the person busts, and a second bullet is purchased.

They only way diluted shares can work is if it's stated before the tournament starts. So if someone plans to fire 2 bullets, they can say, "You will have 50% of bullet #1 and 50% of bullet #2, proportionate to what you bought. And if I don't play bullet #2, you will get a refund."

The way I do it nowadays is just sell 2 bullets for events where 2 bullets are possible, and then refund if I don't use them.

The only other fair thing to do -- but this only works in a multi-event package -- is to transfer unused buyins to the second bullet. Again, this must be stated before the second bullet is bought. But for example, let's say I only sell 2 bullets for the 2023 Seniors event at the WSOP, and want to fire a third. If I had another $1000 event I had planned to play (and sold to people) but ended up not playing, it would be fair to replace that unplayed event with a third bullet for the seniors, as long as I state so prior to my third bullet registration.

[garrett]

Very important in this thread and noticeable (Math Matters)!

Math matters this is entirely the Maths percentages and equities owed if won in staking and backing in poker in ways. One way or another these are commonly factored and dealt with by poker friends, deals. I've come to realize such a critical component to playing poker over time, so decades like Brunson, Hellmuth all the older Poker players and maybe lesser known too. That in Poker lasted that test of time which now ive come to realize is probably the difference maker. End of all the other factors people consider about this ones great, that ones good. Yes that matters but the unquestionable positive one whether you technically had won or lost over that looong period of time. You made it didn't in a sense or for most get Folded, to me that's impressive. Lasting the test of time so decades and then fewer and fewer bfit that mold too normally. So that's interesting as I've become more of a real interest taker in the game and so the people and players too then. Poker players who end up making it and still being in the game if they wanted is impressive to me. And most noticeable and impressive so root for them to win when playing. Phil Hellmuth is one who gets a lottt of negativity by default from the younger generation players (Millennials') and it's poker. Poker so you need to understand that Mind game and people trying rent space in you're head for their own benefit is real here in Poker. Don't let no one Rent Space in that head right.

Have a nice day!

[4BET]

I think we all can agree Ethan did nothing wrong here, Was nice of him to still give investors some money

I am just saying honestly I would be salty if I bought piece of 1st bullet and Guy scores for almost a million and I get basically nothing.

Let the lesson be if you buy a piece of someone make it clear if they play 2nd you want a piece, If you do of course

[simpdog]

I agree he owes investors 0.0 but giving some back was a good PR move.


The problem with multi entry buy-ins, is a player could play insane on his backed bullet trying to run up a huge stack. Either bust out in the first hour or run it up huge.

Then buy in with his own $ and play regularly after.

[SlowRoll]

Another thing to note is that he has a huge audience and could have people buying pieces that don't know the intricacies of the poker world / staking and would be very confused and upset with this result.
I think he made the right decision for his brand, and his supporters. The supporters who would have felt wronged due to not understanding the situation are taken care of and happy.

No one buying action from shaun deeb is going to expect anything like this from him. he doesn't need to worry about this situation, its doesnt affect his poker world.

[padre33]

Something similar happened to me this last year. Tournament player and I thought former friend hyped me up to play the 777 at this last WSOP and wanted a piece. I sold him half and busted 2 levels in. Standard for my summer. After taking the walk of shame I ran into him and he was on his way to enter same event. I bought 25% of him and was on my way... After about an hour he mentions its only for 1st bullet and he's reloading if he busts and that he was 100% of himself on 2nd bullet. I didn't think much of it but messaged cool whatever my money is mush do your thing. An hour later he messages me he busts and reloading and says "When I cash, I'll get you tipped out." dafuq does that mean?

Long story long he sends me 100s of updates of chip stacks, we talk strategy etc and he binks for 6 figures. We had talked the night before final table and he wanted to put me in the 6max limit holdem 3k the next day.. After his score he goes out with wifey and ghosts me for the next 24 hours. Talking to others that played many events they said selling for first bullet and refusing on 2nd is unethical.

Whatever ez mark sfobvious he mentions he wants to stake me in future tourneys I say nice score and happy for you but gfy,, He always had a negative balance for all gambling related stuff with me because he had to hide losses from wife.

We all have been rolled, but the 3 times I have been rolled for 20k+ plus was hot shot real estate agents. Go figure.. Live and Learn

[4BET]

Something similar happened to me this last year. Tournament player and I thought former friend hyped me up to play the 777 at this last WSOP and wanted a piece. I sold him half and busted 2 levels in. Standard for my summer. After taking the walk of shame I ran into him and he was on his way to enter same event. I bought 25% of him and was on my way... After about an hour he mentions its only for 1st bullet and he's reloading if he busts and that he was 100% of himself on 2nd bullet. I didn't think much of it but messaged cool whatever my money is mush do your thing. An hour later he messages me he busts and reloading and says "When I cash, I'll get you tipped out." dafuq does that mean?

Long story long he sends me 100s of updates of chip stacks, we talk strategy etc and he binks for 6 figures. We had talked the night before final table and he wanted to put me in the 6max limit holdem 3k the next day.. After his score he goes out with wifey and ghosts me for the next 24 hours. Talking to others that played many events they said selling for first bullet and refusing on 2nd is unethical.

Whatever ez mark sfobvious he mentions he wants to stake me in future tourneys I say nice score and happy for you but gfy,, He always had a negative balance for all gambling related stuff with me because he had to hide losses from wife.

We all have been rolled, but the 3 times I have been rolled for 20k+ plus was hot shot real estate agents. Go figure.. Live and Learn

Your friend kinda reminds me of my cousin, He always stayed busted, Sometimes I would call him to see if he wanted to go to Greek town to play poker. So I call and ask him if he wants to go and of course he does but is busted, So I offer to loan him 500 to play 10/20 limit holdem (This is early 2000s) he says sure so I pick him up and loan the nickel, He is playing at the table next to my 20/40 LH table and I start hearing yelling, They had hit the bad beat jackpot his share a little above 20k. He pays me my 500 back and says nothing else. Then he later said I can give you 500 more if you want, lol I told him no worries, No thanks

Can you imagine sitting home with a busted ass your cousin calls and offering to put you in a game and 2-3 hours later you have 20 large and didn’t want to give me a quarter.

He wasn’t the easiest to get paid back from in the first place. We were pretty close so I didn’t mind loan him a few bucks

So obviously didn’t take him long to fuck off the 20k and he never got another loan from me.

I mean he should have just threw me 2k or something would have been fair

[padre33]

Something similar happened to me this last year. Tournament player and I thought former friend hyped me up to play the 777 at this last WSOP and wanted a piece. I sold him half and busted 2 levels in. Standard for my summer. After taking the walk of shame I ran into him and he was on his way to enter same event. I bought 25% of him and was on my way... After about an hour he mentions its only for 1st bullet and he's reloading if he busts and that he was 100% of himself on 2nd bullet. I didn't think much of it but messaged cool whatever my money is mush do your thing. An hour later he messages me he busts and reloading and says "When I cash, I'll get you tipped out." dafuq does that mean?

Long story long he sends me 100s of updates of chip stacks, we talk strategy etc and he binks for 6 figures. We had talked the night before final table and he wanted to put me in the 6max limit holdem 3k the next day.. After his score he goes out with wifey and ghosts me for the next 24 hours. Talking to others that played many events they said selling for first bullet and refusing on 2nd is unethical.

Whatever ez mark sfobvious he mentions he wants to stake me in future tourneys I say nice score and happy for you but gfy,, He always had a negative balance for all gambling related stuff with me because he had to hide losses from wife.

We all have been rolled, but the 3 times I have been rolled for 20k+ plus was hot shot real estate agents. Go figure.. Live and Learn

Your friend kinda reminds me of my cousin, He always stayed busted, Sometimes I would call him to see if he wanted to go to Greek town to play poker. So I call and ask him if he wants to go and of course he does but is busted, So I offer to loan him 500 to play 10/20 limit holdem (This is early 2000s) he says sure so I pick him up and loan the nickel, He is playing at the table next to my 20/40 LH table and I start hearing yelling, They had hit the bad beat jackpot his share a little above 20k. He pays me my 500 back and says nothing else. Then he later said I can give you 500 more if you want, lol I told him no worries, No thanks

Can you imagine sitting home with a busted ass your cousin calls and offering to put you in a game and 2-3 hours later you have 20 large and didn’t want to give me a quarter.

He wasn’t the easiest to get paid back from in the first place. We were pretty close so I didn’t mind loan him a few bucks

So obviously didn’t take him long to fuck off the 20k and he never got another loan from me.

I mean he should have just threw me 2k or something would have been fair

Oh man this had me rolling. Ya I've staked some real degens over the years. One certain friend that always uses gorilla math to try and explain why he deserves a rebate because I wouldnt have won so much if he wasn't in the game. One time at Lucky Lady on El Cajon Blvd(real dump) I staked Crazy Doc(cigarette stained beard down to his chest) and 5ft Albanian Bujar in the 4-8 O8 game and they are both crushing. Well they get involved in a hand together and ended up getting pissed at each other and fighting and getting kicked out. On a complete freeroll while busted

[garrett]

Your friend kinda reminds me of my cousin, He always stayed busted, Sometimes I would call him to see if he wanted to go to Greek town to play poker. So I call and ask him if he wants to go and of course he does but is busted, So I offer to loan him 500 to play 10/20 limit holdem (This is early 2000s) he says sure so I pick him up and loan the nickel, He is playing at the table next to my 20/40 LH table and I start hearing yelling, They had hit the bad beat jackpot his share a little above 20k. He pays me my 500 back and says nothing else. Then he later said I can give you 500 more if you want, lol I told him no worries, No thanks

Can you imagine sitting home with a busted ass your cousin calls and offering to put you in a game and 2-3 hours later you have 20 large and didn’t want to give me a quarter.

He wasn’t the easiest to get paid back from in the first place. We were pretty close so I didn’t mind loan him a few bucks

So obviously didn’t take him long to fuck off the 20k and he never got another loan from me.

I mean he should have just threw me 2k or something would have been fair

Oh man this had me rolling. Ya I've staked some real degens over the years. One certain friend that always uses gorilla math to try and explain why he deserves a rebate because I wouldnt have won so much if he wasn't in the game. One time at Lucky Lady on El Cajon Blvd(real dump) I staked Crazy Doc(cigarette stained beard down to his chest) and 5ft Albanian Bujar in the 4-8 O8 game and they are both crushing. Well they get involved in a hand together and ended up getting pissed at each other and fighting and getting kicked out. On a complete freeroll while busted