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Thread: Jerry Buss / Winning Time

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    Platinum FRANKRIZZO's Avatar
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    Jerry Buss / Winning Time

    Heard Druff talking about the Lakers mini series on hbo on the radio, Winning time It was really gritty , didn't mince words enjoyed how the actors who were pivotal to the lakers like Jerry West, Spencer Haywood, Majic johnson , Kareem, Red Aurbach were portrayed pat riley. I am going to purchase series on dvd think I missed a couple of shows. Riley is such a good actor. One of the funnier scenes was when Kareem played airline pilot. Kid very respectfully asked for autograph, Kareem told him to fuck himself.
    Last edited by FRANKRIZZO; 05-30-2022 at 02:27 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FRANKRIZZO View Post
    Heard Druff talking about the Lakers mini series on hbo on the radio, Winning time It was really gritty , didn't mince words enjoyed how the actors who were pivotal to the lakers like Jerry West, Spencer Haywood, Majic johnson , Kareem, Red Aurbach were portrayed pat riley. I am going to purchase series on dvd think I missed a couple of shows. Riley is such a good actor. One of the funnier scenes was when Kareem played airline pilot. Kid very respectfully asked for autograph, Kareem told him to fuck himself.
    Don't buy dvds, ever again.

    Which episodes have you missed? All are still available for viewing on demand.

    I agree the series was worthwhile, very entertaining.

    The Auerbach portrayal got me curious, and I searched out Red on video. Gents, i present to you the VHS classic Red on Roundball:


     
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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Took a little bit of time to get used to the Buss character breaking the fourth wall, but after that I enjoyed the first season a lot.

    It helps that I grew up with those Lakers, so it was interesting to see the (somewhat fictionalized) backstory. Was also interesting because I played poker with Jerry Buss several times at Commerce, during his final years. He liked limit holdem, so I had a lot of exposure to him for that reason. The Jerry I met was far quieter and more reserved than the one you see in Winning Time, but perhaps that was due to age. He did often show up there with hot chicks in their 20s -- more often than not Hispanic.

    The series did have some pretty clear biases. Obviously they hated Jerry West, had little respect for Pat Riley, loved Jeannie Buss, and loved Magic. They also seemed to have little respect for Paul Westhead, potraying him both as a low-self-esteem chump and somewhat of a snake in the grass.

    Jerry West already retained lawyers to demand they issue apologies and to stop portraying him this way. Other real-life versions of the characters have also expressed frustration with the series, including Kareem and Magic. I assume that Magic's issue comes from the negative portrayal of some of the people he likes, though his character is also portrayed as kind of a midwest simpleton, when in reality Magic seems like a smart guy. (Note that Magic was one of the few NBA players who was not only responsible with his money, but also a good businessman.)

    The series is called "Winning Time" instead of "Showtime" because it airs on HBO, and HBO didn't want to promote the competition. I'm not kidding -- that was the real reason for that awkward name.

    I liked the imagery shown in the theme song. Really does a good job of capturing the feel of gritty early 1980s Los Angeles (which I lived, albeit as a kid).

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    Diamond Sloppy Joe's Avatar
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    Haven't seen yet but plan to.

    West had several defenders come out, both in the media and from people who were/are in the organization saying his portrayal is completely inaccurate.

    Magic has his own doc coming out. When dudes self-produce (including the recent Jordan one) you should always be skeptical.
    PokerFraudAlert...will never censor your claims, even if they're against one of our sponsors. In addition to providing you an open forum report fraud within the poker community, we will also analyze your claims with a clear head an unbiased point of view. And, of course, the accused will always have the floor to defend themselves.-Dan Druff

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sloppy Joe View Post
    Haven't seen yet but plan to.

    West had several defenders come out, both in the media and from people who were/are in the organization saying his portrayal is completely inaccurate.

    Magic has his own doc coming out. When dudes self-produce (including the recent Jordan one) you should always be skeptical.
    Magic is portrayed as simple, optimistic, oversexed, and agreeable. They mention his smile at least a few times per episode.

    The real magic was incredibly talented basektball-wise, and also seems to have a decent head for business. I don't believe he's the simpleton they portrayed there. However, he's also not as nice and good-hearted as portrayed there. They use his simplicity to explain his lack of ability to push away the ample sexual opportunities falling in his lap, but I don't buy that.

    The real Magic was known to be difficult and sometimes verbally abusive. That's part of the reason he failed as coach in the 93-94 season. When he had his odd comeback in 1996, after not playing for 5 years, he was seen as a difficult teammate who didn't understand that he wasn't the star anymore. In his most recent front office stint with the Lakers, he was both disagreeable and didn't show up to work very often. When given a hard time about it, he abruptly walked out on the team.

    Of all the players portrayed in the series, Kareem seems to be the one shown most accurately. At the beginning he's shown being a huge dickhead to a kid acting with him on Airplane, but other than that he's portrayed as difficult/stubborn/aloof yet mostly moral. The actor playing Kareem did a pretty good job, especially considering that he's a non-actor, and was actually a Bay Area basketball coach prior to getting this gig.

    By the way, the Vegas mob stuff shown briefly in the series was somewhat made up, though Jerry Tarkanian really was offered the Lakers coaching job, and did decline.

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    Meh. If the show entertains you than by all means go ahead and watch it, but I would definitely treat it as propaganda/fiction and take everything with a giant grain of salt. Whoever made that series definitely had an agenda, and it wasn't to portray all the principals as accurately and fairly as possible.

    Also, I played with Buss a little at Hollywood Park back in the day. That was his spot when the Lakers used to play literally right next door. This was a little after that time, but he still made cameos now and then. Probably a few years earlier than Druff played with him. Usually with a couple much younger blondes. At that time I wouldn't say he was particularly enamored with limit holdem specifically. I would say he liked the old school limit games in general (HORSE and single draw lowball). They would often build a 75-150 (or sometimes higher) mix game around him, which was actually low for him. But this is in the early 2000s when Hollywood Park had already lost all their high limit games and players, so they couldn't really build a high game.

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    This one starts on August 15 on HULU. Looks much better than that fake ass HBO mocumentary


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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Took a little bit of time to get used to the Buss character breaking the fourth wall, but after that I enjoyed the first season a lot.

    It helps that I grew up with those Lakers, so it was interesting to see the (somewhat fictionalized) backstory. Was also interesting because I played poker with Jerry Buss several times at Commerce, during his final years. He liked limit holdem, so I had a lot of exposure to him for that reason. The Jerry I met was far quieter and more reserved than the one you see in Winning Time, but perhaps that was due to age. He did often show up there with hot chicks in their 20s -- more often than not Hispanic.

    The series did have some pretty clear biases. Obviously they hated Jerry West, had little respect for Pat Riley, loved Jeannie Buss, and loved Magic. They also seemed to have little respect for Paul Westhead, potraying him both as a low-self-esteem chump and somewhat of a snake in the grass.

    Jerry West already retained lawyers to demand they issue apologies and to stop portraying him this way. Other real-life versions of the characters have also expressed frustration with the series, including Kareem and Magic. I assume that Magic's issue comes from the negative portrayal of some of the people he likes, though his character is also portrayed as kind of a midwest simpleton, when in reality Magic seems like a smart guy. (Note that Magic was one of the few NBA players who was not only responsible with his money, but also a good businessman.)

    The series is called "Winning Time" instead of "Showtime" because it airs on HBO, and HBO didn't want to promote the competition. I'm not kidding -- that was the real reason for that awkward name.

    I liked the imagery shown in the theme song. Really does a good job of capturing the feel of gritty early 1980s Los Angeles (which I lived, albeit as a kid).
    Gotta give Jeannie credit, most famous women who posed for playboy did some peekaboo and barely showed any skin at all, or they did some high brow artsy stuff that wasn’t sexy in the least. Jeannie on the other hand showed everything, pussy lips included.

    She isn’t particularly hot but Kudos anyway.

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    Diamond BCR's Avatar
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    I loved that era and found the show unwatchable. I’m shocked people liked it.

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post
    I loved that era and found the show unwatchable. I’m shocked people liked it.
    What did you find unwatchable?

    I found the breaking of the fourth wall annoying at first, but got used to it. I felt they did a good job portraying late '70s and early '80s LA (especially in the theme song, but even in the show), which was nice to see as a guy who grew up with my childhood looking like that. (This is one of the draws of "The Rockford Files" to me, as it was shot on-location in several LA spots in the mid-late '70s, just as my earliest coherent memories had formed.)

    If you remind yourself that it's not completely true, and took plenty of dramatic license, I found it to be a fun watch. I was sad when I was through season 1, as I wanted to see more. That's always a good sign.

    The basketball scenes themselves were a bit weird and didn't quite play like a real NBA game (even back then), but I'll forgive that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post
    I loved that era and found the show unwatchable. I’m shocked people liked it.
    What did you find unwatchable?

    I found the breaking of the fourth wall annoying at first, but got used to it. I felt they did a good job portraying late '70s and early '80s LA (especially in the theme song, but even in the show), which was nice to see as a guy who grew up with my childhood looking like that. (This is one of the draws of "The Rockford Files" to me, as it was shot on-location in several LA spots in the mid-late '70s, just as my earliest coherent memories had formed.)

    If you remind yourself that it's not completely true, and took plenty of dramatic license, I found it to be a fun watch. I was sad when I was through season 1, as I wanted to see more. That's always a good sign.

    The basketball scenes themselves were a bit weird and didn't quite play like a real NBA game (even back then), but I'll forgive that.
    I don’t know tbh? It was just cartoonish to me and overly dramatic. I know I’m in the minority.

    Outside Dr. Buss, everyone is still alive. I was alive and already familiar with how the Lakers evolved. I find the real KAJ, Riley, and Jerry West more interesting than those cartoonish versions.


    I don’t particularly like Magic Johnson as a personality. Great player. I’m probably jaded by how horrible he is at talking basketball or ever saying anything interesting. In any form of entertainment outside playing basketball, whether it be commentary, that horrible talk show that lasted about a month, Twitter, he just is the least entertaining or insightful guy ever.

    Just really didn’t like it. Felt cheesy. I’ll prefer the documentary coming out.

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    BUMP

    Season 2 is partially out. Episode #4 airs tonight.

    I've watched the first 3. Pretty similar to season 1, both in quality and tone. There's been a few changes. They've toned down the outrageous Jerry West character, though he's still overly temperamental and anxious. The fourth wall breaking has notably decreased, presumably because there was a negative reaction to it overall during Season 1. Larry Bird has become more prominent in the series, and in fact there was an entire episode (#3) dedicated to his (mostly true) backstory.

    Kareem remains the most believable character.

    They continue to make Jeannie Buss look like an infallible angel, but at least they've brought more coverage to Buss' two moron sons, whom are portrayed as such. Jim Buss really did ruin the Lakers during the 2010s when he was at the helm.

    The biggest problem I have with the show is the basketball itself. The games shown taking place are clearly being done on a soundstage somewhere, and not in a giant arena full of people. You can tell they think they're hiding it well, but they're not. Just totally lacks the same energy of real NBA games. When the Lakers' 1981 loss to the Houston Rockets was portrayed, my memories came rushing back to the loud "BEAT LA" being screamed in the arena. This was absent from the show, and the crowd almost came off as silent. Very weird. This isn't very hard to get right in 2023, even if you're not really filming in an actual arena. For this reason, I can't find myself getting excited during the basketball games, and in fact feel like I'm watching some weird alternate reality where almost nobody attends major NBA games.

    They changed the theme song imagery a bit, and shorted it somewhat, but it still has the same opening song, and they've interspersed more clips from the actual show. I preferred the old one, which was a mixture of old 1980s video, old 1980s stills, and some re-enacted 1980s scenery which was done quite accurately.

    Here's the season 1 version of the opening. Season 2's opening isn't available online yet. I can tell you from growing up in '70s and '80s LA that this did a great job capturing the look and feel of the time. However, I am a bit perplexed as to why they chose a 2007 hip-hop song ("My Favorite Mutiny" by The Coup) to set an '80s mood. Perhaps it's a nod to the same song being used in the video game "NBA Live 07".


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    Plutonium lol wow's Avatar
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    show is spectacular for anyone who grew up in la in the 90s and had a dad who loved the lakers and you heard stories about how the celtics kept fucking them over when he was a kid in the 60s reaaaaaaaaallly great show for like 8 people im one of them jerry west finally winning a chip in 73 and asked how he felt hes like i played like shit after losing so many times no one really knows how goat the lakers are like i remember going to little league and listening to chick hearn on the radio laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaakers

    like legit my dad was at the laker playoff game when the king riots broke out

     
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    Plutonium lol wow's Avatar
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    also hey chaps this will be on netflix in like 5 years

     
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    sorry not done this could have beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen so bad and its just perfect like how the fuck did they find the guy to play magic hes perfection the whole westhead drama thing and then riley takes over is gonna be elite and yea just a sprinkle of john c owning every scene hes in i have now idea how lucky we are to get this even bird is great

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