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Thread: The purposeless/angy young male problem

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    The purposeless/angy young male problem

    This is something Jordan Peterson and others have talked about a lot, so I am not claiming any great insight of my own. But it is beleived that perhaps one of the most important stabilizing aspects of traditional societies with "enforced monogamy" is that it gave low status young men a purpose and outlet for their natural aggressiveness, so they are much less unpredictable and violent. Have a young man marry young, start a family and give him some long hour, menial job to support his family is actually a great way to keep young males in check. Another traditional strategy which (for good or bad) worked very well was sending a lot of them off to die in wars.

    And with all these shootings (and general lawlessness) we are seeing the results of a society that is doing a very poor job of giving young men purpose and meaning, and controlling their natural impulses. Another instance where we we are radically experimenting with established social norms without properly understanding or appreciating their purpose, and then finding out the hard their true purpose/value at the societal level.
    Last edited by Kalam; 05-26-2022 at 06:29 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalam View Post
    This is something Jordan Peterson and others have talked about a lot, so I am not claiming any great insight of my own. But it is beleived that perhaps one of the most important stabilizing aspects of traditional societies with "enforced monogamy" is that it gave low status young men a purpose and outlet for their natural aggressiveness, so they are much less unpredictable and violent. Have a young man marry young, start a family and give him some long hour, menial job to support his family is actually a great way to keep young males in check. Another traditional strategy which (for good or bad) worked very well was sending a lot of them off to die in wars.

    And with all these shootings (and general lawlessness) we are seeing the results of a society that is doing a very poor job of giving young men purpose and meaning, and controlling their natural impulses. Another instance where we we are radically experimenting with established social norms without properly understanding or appreciating their purpose, and then finding out the hard their true purpose/value at the societal level.
    I have been hearing about this too, how this generation doesn't really have a "cause" to galvanize them. There is no war. No struggle. No purpose. They are constantly fed propaganda that tells them how horrible they are (especially the white ones) and as evidence by the downward turn in average testosterone levels in males, are choosing activities and lifestyle that just exacerbate the problem. It isn't a small drop either, 20% over the last 20 years.

     
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    This is an interesting thread here

    Very true too and what i find is its noticeable along generational lines. People who were alive and raised in different times a a Generation are going to think they, together know a best way or had it worse or more difficult than you could ever have. Is this true idk, honestly. Reality is its a perspective sometimes true sometimes fos from someone too. I used to be Angry too when i was young so i could relate to this all , and agree young kids fun it nice to be able to attach to something or idea, they hate. It gives them reason to feel justified in their own disbelief for a person, or a cause, anything. At that point you've justified it in you're own mind maybe and actually, it does matter maybe

    Anger isn't detrimental to everyone, a few are dangerous in Chaos, and so can excel in it

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    our youth are spoiled beyond reproach. nothing like a hungry belly or a 12 hour work day digging ditches to take that angst out of them. now we coddle and subsidize them and act surprised when this is the outcome.

    combine that with the lack of fathers, and the fear of them, while being raised by single moms and well, here we are.
    he tries to fly under the radar with his gay big words - Big Bird

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    There are two other weird trends recently with young males, which might be related to all of this.

    When I was a teenager in the 1980s, there were two things almost every high school boy wanted -- to be able to drive and get laid as soon as possible.

    Today, neither is particularly important to young US males. Many are showing zero interest in driving, and the number of men between 18 and 30 who aren't having sex is at an all-time high.

    The desires to drive and have sex are natural for teenage males. The appeal to driving is the idea of independence, and the appeal of having sex is natural, as the male sex drive is supposed to peak around 19-20. So why are we seeing both of these in great decline?

    It would appear that young males are no longer desiring much independence, and the lack of pursuit of sex would indicate increased antisocial tendencies as a whole.

    Not good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    There are two other weird trends recently with young males, which might be related to all of this.

    When I was a teenager in the 1980s, there were two things almost every high school boy wanted -- to be able to drive and get laid as soon as possible.

    Today, neither is particularly important to young US males. Many are showing zero interest in driving, and the number of men between 18 and 30 who aren't having sex is at an all-time high.

    The desires to drive and have sex are natural for teenage males. The appeal to driving is the idea of independence, and the appeal of having sex is natural, as the male sex drive is supposed to peak around 19-20. So why are we seeing both of these in great decline?

    It would appear that young males are no longer desiring much independence, and the lack of pursuit of sex would indicate increased antisocial tendencies as a whole.

    Not good.
    A couple things going on. Obviously the elephant in the room is masturbating to pornography, so young males are still being achieving some level of sexual satisfaction.

    On top of this, I have read in a few different places that online dating statistics indicate part of what might be going on is that females are being more selective in their mating partners, and a larger % of females are choosing to either not have sex and/or are all having sex with a small pool of high status males (as the traditional taboos surrounding premarital sex and promiscuity are removed, and access to high status males via the internet increases). In short, we are shifting towards a more polygynous society (several females mating with a small pool of high status males), which many evolutionary biologists/psychologists/anthropologists speculate is the "natural" human state before the advent of "conservative" agrarian societies around 20,000 years ago.

    And again, it is hypothesized that monogamy actually worked to decrease violence from young males within a society, and the shift to a polygynous society could result in more violence from purposeless low status males.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    There are two other weird trends recently with young males, which might be related to all of this.

    When I was a teenager in the 1980s, there were two things almost every high school boy wanted -- to be able to drive and get laid as soon as possible.

    Today, neither is particularly important to young US males. Many are showing zero interest in driving, and the number of men between 18 and 30 who aren't having sex is at an all-time high.

    The desires to drive and have sex are natural for teenage males. The appeal to driving is the idea of independence, and the appeal of having sex is natural, as the male sex drive is supposed to peak around 19-20. So why are we seeing both of these in great decline?

    It would appear that young males are no longer desiring much independence, and the lack of pursuit of sex would indicate increased antisocial tendencies as a whole.

    Not good.

    I know about 4 early twenties kids that I’m pretty sure are virgins. They’ve certainly never had any significant relationship, and I’d bet on all 4 being virgins and think I’d scoop 3 of 4.

    Three also didn’t drive until the last couple years. They went through undergrad without driving. All 4 are great kids and wonderful little overachievers.

    I’ve watched their parents go from the relief you feel when your high school kid doesn’t become a nightmare and knock up some girl, or get knocked up, gets excellent grades, doesn’t do drugs. to starting to become a bit worried.

    I tell them to relax. They’re all going to be successful, and likely will marry some other kid just like them eventually. These young people are just different.

    These are kids from stable homes and outside their present social life, complete successes. They aren’t where the problems arise often. There are a number of kids who are like this from unstable homes.

    Feel like all these school shootings and threads about purposeless young men are all the same thread. Not to just regurgitate the Unambomber manifesto, but it’s technology.

    Angry young men has always been a thing. Young men are the most violent creatures of any period of time. End of story. How they are doing at any period of time is just a reflection of how the world was at that period of time and circumstance.

    Purposeless young men are a relatively new phenomenon in the context of history. They didn’t exist until the late 1800s after the Industrial Age.

    50000 years ago, 5000 years ago, 300 years ago, people essentially lived the same. We went from the wheel to the plow and from raping and pillaging to more peaceful, but generally men worked all day in a field or some trade to feed their 5 children that survived out of 10 births. Show me a purposeless young man, and he was the very rare son of some royal or some other rare occurrence.

    It’s not a surprise all the professional sports leagues of the world were founded shortly after the Industrial Age and early technology created the concept of free time.

    People started to have free time, live longer as all technology lends itself to other technology and rapid advancement occurred. It’s quite staggering to think about the last 175 years.

    So it’s not altogether surprising that humans who evolved with very little free time didn’t know how to make productive use of it.

    Divorce didn’t exist in 1850. It stayed under 1 per 1000 until 1920. A lot of that was that it was mostly against the law, but the notion that war has ever been a positive is nonsensical.

    You can draw a straight line from Rosie the Riveter and women entering the workforce and divorce and destabilization of families. You want to see the statistical outlier of all time, check out the divorce rate from 1946. WW2 ended 9/45. Various reasons for that, many kids got married before shipping out, and then the guys left for 4 years, and a lot can happen in 4 years. It didn’t hit that number for a year again until the 70s.

    But up until that period, it was certainly a mans world. Women with 4 kids and married to an ass had little options. Horrible double standard, but a double standard is better than no standard when it comes to raising children and stability.

    For all the positive advancements in technology and medicine, radio>tv>internet has been horrible for the health of young people, both mentally and physically.

    I don’t blame young people. I was a chubby six year old who loved early video games, and if I had I the option to sit around and play video games all day like they have now and the constant entertainment, I certainly would have sat around and became a fat nerd.

    I watched too much tv, but with 3 channels young and not all that exciting outside Saturday mornings, it wasn’t hours a day.

    Thankfully I was born when my friends knocked on my door every ten minutes to come play, I loved sports, wanted to be good and wanted girls, so we lived outside.

    Most kids did. We also had to run the labyrinth of life. Getting beat up by older kids, playing sports against black city kids, needing to call girls from phones attached to our kitchen wall, ask girls to dance, and interact with other kids and adults in order to have a life.

    All that shit is awkward and sucks the first time around, but it’s something that prepares you for your later life. You get comfortable being uncomfortable, so it isn’t a big deal when you eventually need to walk into a new school or job or whatever adversity arises.

    Technology and parents allowing their children to be raised by the internet is extraordinarily damaging. That’s why these events occur. Kids go from never having a physical altercation in their life to grabbing an AR-15.


    This happens for a host of reasons. People have fewer kids, so if you’re a good parent, your whole world is wrapped up in that one or two kids and when confronted by a media that has been scaring them about outliers for their entire life, they feel better when their kid is in the other room playing Call of Duty for 8 hours a day, when in reality they are doing the worst thing imaginable to prepare those kids for the real world.

    The murder and pedophile rates were worse when they were kids. There was just a 100 less channels scaring them.

    Most likely with good parents, the kid is just more likely to be socially awkward than a school shooter, but it’s unhealthy.

    There was no real obesity 150 years ago. Little a 100 years ago. TV started it, and the internet has spread it across the world. The fat American is a real thing, but everywhere is fat now. Other industrialized nations are only a few points behind us and closing fast.

    If they’re a shitty parent with problems of their own, they use technology as a babysitter and a lot of these kids are where your really mentally ill kids come from.


    Humans are built to interact. It’s considered inhumane to isolate prisoners for too long, yet we allow kids, and many adults, to isolate themselves and for some reason don’t realize it’s the root of so many of our ills..

    More than political ideology, more than race, if I wanted to actually identify people who act out in these mass shooting events and stop them before they do, participation in fringe internet groups would be the most common red flag. Not simply being part of one, but actually reading their words.

    If it was legal to simply read, make a common sense decision on what they post online and slow them to obtain weapons, it would actually prevent shootings. Background checks are less useful because often it’s some isolated kid whose first criminal act will be mowing down kids.

    But as horrific as these incidents are, our isolated populace manifesting itself in a thousand more profound ways is way more important. What it’s done to our physical and mental health is horrible.

    I’ve been amazed at driving around on beautiful days for a decade now and seeing no kids playing anything. As a kid, it would take hours to find a field and every basketball court was five deep waiting to be next up. Now you’re more likely to see a middle aged guy with his wedge and a bag of golf balls in an open field than any kid. Makes me sick.

    Kids that do play, it’s travel teams of suburban kids playing against other kids from like communities in a neighboring city. I knew every kid from my area growing up because I was playing against them in some field or league. We’ve ruined that also. It’s some sanitized gated community league.

    We have no real sense of community because we’ve replaced actual community and true human interaction with a virtual world that’s ugly.

    It’s fucked up all of us, but kids raised on it more than anyone. Social media has made it even worse. Now I think live-streaming shit seems to have made it even worse. People don’t interact. Girls are narcissists fishing for compliments online. Boys get lost in video games or fringe shit if they’re unlucky and socially awkward. They can’t make eye contact with a girl let alone get laid.

    It’s only going to get worse.

     
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    Last edited by BCR; 05-28-2022 at 12:58 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalam View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    There are two other weird trends recently with young males, which might be related to all of this.

    When I was a teenager in the 1980s, there were two things almost every high school boy wanted -- to be able to drive and get laid as soon as possible.

    Today, neither is particularly important to young US males. Many are showing zero interest in driving, and the number of men between 18 and 30 who aren't having sex is at an all-time high.

    The desires to drive and have sex are natural for teenage males. The appeal to driving is the idea of independence, and the appeal of having sex is natural, as the male sex drive is supposed to peak around 19-20. So why are we seeing both of these in great decline?

    It would appear that young males are no longer desiring much independence, and the lack of pursuit of sex would indicate increased antisocial tendencies as a whole.

    Not good.
    A couple things going on. Obviously the elephant in the room is masturbating to pornography, so young males are still being achieving some level of sexual satisfaction.

    On top of this, I have read in a few different places that online dating statistics indicate part of what might be going on is that females are being more selective in their mating partners, and a larger % of females are choosing to either not have sex and/or are all having sex with a small pool of high status males (as the traditional taboos surrounding premarital sex and promiscuity are removed, and access to high status males via the internet increases). In short, we are shifting towards a more polygynous society (several females mating with a small pool of high status males), which many evolutionary biologists/psychologists/anthropologists speculate is the "natural" human state before the advent of "conservative" agrarian societies around 20,000 years ago.

    And again, it is hypothesized that monogamy actually worked to decrease violence from young males within a society, and the shift to a polygynous society could result in more violence from purposeless low status males.
    I don't know how young people interact on these dating apps because I'm not in that world, but I will say that I think it's more than just young guys having a hard time finding a female partner. Young guys who aren't having sex aren't really reporting that they're trying and repeatedly failing. They're just not trying. Oh, sure they'd have sex if a girl came on to them, but for the average young dude that doesn't happen. They have to make the first move, and they're simply not trying to make it.

    Porn is one reason, for sure. I think another big reason is the hammering into young men's heads that showing interest in a girl can easily be sexual harassment. While I've always approached females respectfully, and I can imagine how much it sucks being female and dealing with unwanted advances, I can also understand the other side where young men are scared out of showing any kind of interest, for fear they'll be shunned or reported in some way.

    Video games are another big reason. I've known girls who have dated gamers -- both gamers in their 20s and older ones. I hear the same story every time. The gamer initially is very interested in them and gives them loads of attention, and after about a month, he ignores the girl and doesn't give a shit anymore. I've never been an addicted gamer so I can't speak to this. However, it's possible that the satisfaction derived from gaming might somewhat mimic sexual/relationship satisfaction, and if the guy jerks off to porn in between his gaming, he might not have much of a drive to pursue real women.

    It's hard for me to picture, though. I especially can't imagine being young today and not having much interest in pursuing sexual relationships. If I were single today at the age I am now, I'd still be pursuing it. I couldn't picture having a lack of interest in sex until I'm very old. And as tough as that is to picture, it's even harder to picture lacking an interest in driving. In discussions with people regarding driverless cars, I stated that I wouldn't want one, and that I'd only use a self-driving feature if very sick or tired. I will want to drive until I am physically or mentally not capable to do so anymore.

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    I recently got a police/ems scanner, holy fuck i can't believe the amount of suspected OD calls. I didn't think it was happening here at that level.
    The Sackler's should be in jail, instead they're in some mega mansion or resort or whatever the fuck. They knowingly and intentionally hooked a nation on synthetic ultra addictive heroin.
    The media will try to blame Mexico , fuck another call as I type this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    There are two other weird trends recently with young males, which might be related to all of this.

    When I was a teenager in the 1980s, there were two things almost every high school boy wanted -- to be able to drive and get laid as soon as possible.

    Today, neither is particularly important to young US males. Many are showing zero interest in driving, and the number of men between 18 and 30 who aren't having sex is at an all-time high.

    The desires to drive and have sex are natural for teenage males. The appeal to driving is the idea of independence, and the appeal of having sex is natural, as the male sex drive is supposed to peak around 19-20. So why are we seeing both of these in great decline?

    It would appear that young males are no longer desiring much independence, and the lack of pursuit of sex would indicate increased antisocial tendencies as a whole.

    Not good.

    I know about 4 early twenties kids that Iím pretty sure are virgins. Theyíve certainly never had any significant relationship, and Iíd bet on all 4 being virgins and think Iíd scoop 3 of 4.

    Three also didnít drive until the last couple years. They went through undergrad without driving. All 4 are great kids and wonderful little overachievers.

    Iíve watched their parents go from the relief you feel when your high school kid doesnít become a nightmare and knock up some girl, or get knocked up, gets excellent grades, doesnít do drugs. to starting to become a bit worried.

    I tell them to relax. Theyíre all going to be successful, and likely will marry some other kid just like them eventually. These young people are just different.

    These are kids from stable homes and outside their present social life, complete successes. They arenít where the problems arise often. There are a number of kids who are like this from unstable homes.

    Feel like all these school shootings and threads about purposeless young men are all the same thread. Not to just regurgitate the Unambomber manifesto, but itís technology.

    Angry young men has always been a thing. Young men are the most violent creatures of any period of time. End of story. How they are doing at any period of time is just a reflection of how the world was at that period of time and circumstance.

    Purposeless young men are a relatively new phenomenon in the context of history. They didnít exist until the late 1800s after the Industrial Age.

    50000 years ago, 5000 years ago, 300 years ago, people essentially lived the same. We went from the wheel to the plow and from raping and pillaging to more peaceful, but generally men worked all day in a field or some trade to feed their 5 children that survived out of 10 births. Show me a purposeless young man, and he was the very rare son of some royal or some other rare occurrence.

    Itís not a surprise all the professional sports leagues of the world were founded shortly after the Industrial Age and early technology created the concept of free time.

    People started to have free time, live longer as all technology lends itself to other technology and rapid advancement occurred. Itís quite staggering to think about the last 175 years.

    So itís not altogether surprising that humans who evolved with very little free time didnít know how to make productive use of it.

    Divorce didnít exist in 1850. It stayed under 1 per 1000 until 1920. A lot of that was that it was mostly against the law, but the notion that war has ever been a positive is nonsensical.

    You can draw a straight line from Rosie the Riveter and women entering the workforce and divorce and destabilization of families. You want to see the statistical outlier of all time, check out the divorce rate from 1946. WW2 ended 9/45. Various reasons for that, many kids got married before shipping out, and then the guys left for 4 years, and a lot can happen in 4 years. It didnít hit that number for a year again until the 70s.

    But up until that period, it was certainly a mans world. Women with 4 kids and married to an ass had little options. Horrible double standard, but a double standard is better than no standard when it comes to raising children and stability.

    For all the positive advancements in technology and medicine, radio>tv>internet has been horrible for the health of young people, both mentally and physically.

    I donít blame young people. I was a chubby six year old who loved early video games, and if I had I the option to sit around and play video games all day like they have now and the constant entertainment, I certainly would have sat around and became a fat nerd.

    I watched too much tv, but with 3 channels young and not all that exciting outside Saturday mornings, it wasnít hours a day.

    Thankfully I was born when my friends knocked on my door every ten minutes to come play, I loved sports, wanted to be good and wanted girls, so we lived outside.

    Most kids did. We also had to run the labyrinth of life. Getting beat up by older kids, playing sports against black city kids, needing to call girls from phones attached to our kitchen wall, ask girls to dance, and interact with other kids and adults in order to have a life.

    All that shit is awkward and sucks the first time around, but itís something that prepares you for your later life. You get comfortable being uncomfortable, so it isnít a big deal when you eventually need to walk into a new school or job or whatever adversity arises.

    Technology and parents allowing their children to be raised by the internet is extraordinarily damaging. Thatís why these events occur. Kids go from never having a physical altercation in their life to grabbing an AR-15.


    This happens for a host of reasons. People have fewer kids, so if youíre a good parent, your whole world is wrapped up in that one or two kids and when confronted by a media that has been scaring them about outliers for their entire life, they feel better when their kid is in the other room playing Call of Duty for 8 hours a day, when in reality they are doing the worst thing imaginable to prepare those kids for the real world.

    The murder and pedophile rates were worse when they were kids. There was just a 100 less channels scaring them.

    Most likely with good parents, the kid is just more likely to be socially awkward than a school shooter, but itís unhealthy.

    There was no real obesity 150 years ago. Little a 100 years ago. TV started it, and the internet has spread it across the world. The fat American is a real thing, but everywhere is fat now. Other industrialized nations are only a few points behind us and closing fast.

    If theyíre a shitty parent with problems of their own, they use technology as a babysitter and a lot of these kids are where your really mentally ill kids come from.


    Humans are built to interact. Itís considered inhumane to isolate prisoners for too long, yet we allow kids, and many adults, to isolate themselves and for some reason donít realize itís the root of so many of our ills..

    More than political ideology, more than race, if I wanted to actually identify people who act out in these mass shooting events and stop them before they do, participation in fringe internet groups would be the most common red flag. Not simply being part of one, but actually reading their words.

    If it was legal to simply read, make a common sense decision on what they post online and slow them to obtain weapons, it would actually prevent shootings. Background checks are less useful because often itís some isolated kid whose first criminal act will be mowing down kids.

    But as horrific as these incidents are, our isolated populace manifesting itself in a thousand more profound ways is way more important. What itís done to our physical and mental health is horrible.

    Iíve been amazed at driving around on beautiful days for a decade now and seeing no kids playing anything. As a kid, it would take hours to find a field and every basketball court was five deep waiting to be next up. Now youíre more likely to see a middle aged guy with his wedge and a bag of golf balls in an open field than any kid. Makes me sick.

    Kids that do play, itís travel teams of suburban kids playing against other kids from like communities in a neighboring city. I knew every kid from my area growing up because I was playing against them in some field or league. Weíve ruined that also. Itís some sanitized gated community league.

    We have no real sense of community because weíve replaced actual community and true human interaction with a virtual world thatís ugly.

    Itís fucked up all of us, but kids raised on it more than anyone. Social media has made it even worse. Now I think live-streaming shit seems to have made it even worse. People donít interact. Girls are narcissists fishing for compliments online. Boys get lost in video games or fringe shit if theyíre unlucky and socially awkward. They canít make eye contact with a girl let alone get laid.

    Itís only going to get worse.
    Great post. You could actually be describing my 10 year old son (and all his friends) it is so spot on, even down to the traveling suburban sports teams. He has a lot of friends he games with and he isn't aggressive at all and is scared of drugs and guns, so I am fairly confident he isn't going to go down any too destructive paths. But he is definitely super sheltered and coddled, has no coping skills to handle adversity at all, and I would not be surprised at all if he lived at home through college (we are commuting distance to several state schools) and was a virgin until his 20s.

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    Think it's simple: internet and smart phones.

    Youngsters these days grew up when Facebook was already going boomer. Half of the kids I see out and about are fat.

    Most here found the internet after developing social skills, friendships etc. It's been ever-present for today's era.

    Also 'kids these days' has been uttered by old faggots forever, so perhaps we're overreacting.
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    Can't completely blame the internet.

    I got online at age 14, back in the mid-1980s. That didn't stop me from actually wanting to go out with friends and do things. While I did make friends and meet girls through my BBS pahticipation, online itself was not a substitute for seeing each other in person. In fact, most of my BBS interactions were with strangers I wasn't personal friends with (kinda like this place, if you think about it). My interactions with friends I made from there was mostly offline.

    This was why I wanted to drive so badly, and was counting down the days to my 16th birthday. I had places I wanted to go, and liked the idea of not needing Mommy to drive me.

    The young people today who live on video games are different. That's all they want to do. Driving isn't important to them, because they don't really feel they need it. They don't want to be independent. And sex is one of those things which would be great if it falls in their lap, but otherwise they can do without it.

    Very different world. I'm glad I grew up when I did. Except the part that I'm going to die decades earlier than today's young people. That part sucks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Can't completely blame the internet.

    I got online at age 14, back in the mid-1980s. That didn't stop me from actually wanting to go out with friends and do things. While I did make friends and meet girls through my BBS pahticipation, online itself was not a substitute for seeing each other in person. In fact, most of my BBS interactions were with strangers I wasn't personal friends with (kinda like this place, if you think about it). My interactions with friends I made from there was mostly offline.

    This was why I wanted to drive so badly, and was counting down the days to my 16th birthday. I had places I wanted to go, and liked the idea of not needing Mommy to drive me.

    The young people today who live on video games are different. That's all they want to do. Driving isn't important to them, because they don't really feel they need it. They don't want to be independent. And sex is one of those things which would be great if it falls in their lap, but otherwise they can do without it.

    Very different world. I'm glad I grew up when I did. Except the part that I'm going to die decades earlier than today's young people. That part sucks.
    My son is 23, blond haired, blue eyed, 6Ē, and in excellent shape. Think a younger Joc Peterson. When I was his age, drinking beer and getting laid (when I could) where my pastimes. I would describe him as indifferent to both. No, heís not gay. Iím always thinking, man if I had your looks, Iíd be hitting that shit all the time. Maybe the younger generation ainít doing it right lol.

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    Diamond Sloppy Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Can't completely blame the internet.

    I got online at age 14, back in the mid-1980s. That didn't stop me from actually wanting to go out with friends and do things. While I did make friends and meet girls through my BBS pahticipation, online itself was not a substitute for seeing each other in person. In fact, most of my BBS interactions were with strangers I wasn't personal friends with (kinda like this place, if you think about it). My interactions with friends I made from there was mostly offline.

    This was why I wanted to drive so badly, and was counting down the days to my 16th birthday. I had places I wanted to go, and liked the idea of not needing Mommy to drive me.

    The young people today who live on video games are different. That's all they want to do. Driving isn't important to them, because they don't really feel they need it. They don't want to be independent. And sex is one of those things which would be great if it falls in their lap, but otherwise they can do without it.

    Very different world. I'm glad I grew up when I did. Except the part that I'm going to die decades earlier than today's young people. That part sucks.
    Brother you may not be the best case example for this argument.
    PokerFraudAlert...will never censor your claims, even if they're against one of our sponsors. In addition to providing you an open forum report fraud within the poker community, we will also analyze your claims with a clear head an unbiased point of view. And, of course, the accused will always have the floor to defend themselves.-Dan Druff

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    Silver Sandwich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayjami View Post
    ...blond haired, blue eyed, 6Ē, and in excellent shape....
    I presume you mean 6', as in 6 feet, unless you really do mean your son has 6 inches... in which case, that's highly inappropriate for a dad to be disclosing. LOL

     
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      Kalam: This post reminded me of a similar themed Borat skit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandwich View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayjami View Post
    ...blond haired, blue eyed, 6Ē, and in excellent shape....
    I presume you mean 6', as in 6 feet, unless you really do mean your son has 6 inches... in which case, that's highly inappropriate for a dad to be disclosing. LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandwich View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayjami View Post
    ...blond haired, blue eyed, 6Ē, and in excellent shape....
    I presume you mean 6', as in 6 feet, unless you really do mean your son has 6 inches... in which case, that's highly inappropriate for a dad to be disclosing. LOL
    Mea culpa!

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    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    There are two other weird trends recently with young males, which might be related to all of this.

    When I was a teenager in the 1980s, there were two things almost every high school boy wanted -- to be able to drive and get laid as soon as possible.

    Today, neither is particularly important to young US males. Many are showing zero interest in driving, and the number of men between 18 and 30 who aren't having sex is at an all-time high.

    The desires to drive and have sex are natural for teenage males. The appeal to driving is the idea of independence, and the appeal of having sex is natural, as the male sex drive is supposed to peak around 19-20. So why are we seeing both of these in great decline?

    It would appear that young males are no longer desiring much independence, and the lack of pursuit of sex would indicate increased antisocial tendencies as a whole.

    Not good.

    I know about 4 early twenties kids that Iím pretty sure are virgins. Theyíve certainly never had any significant relationship, and Iíd bet on all 4 being virgins and think Iíd scoop 3 of 4.

    Three also didnít drive until the last couple years. They went through undergrad without driving. All 4 are great kids and wonderful little overachievers.

    Iíve watched their parents go from the relief you feel when your high school kid doesnít become a nightmare and knock up some girl, or get knocked up, gets excellent grades, doesnít do drugs. to starting to become a bit worried.

    I tell them to relax. Theyíre all going to be successful, and likely will marry some other kid just like them eventually. These young people are just different.

    These are kids from stable homes and outside their present social life, complete successes. They arenít where the problems arise often. There are a number of kids who are like this from unstable homes.

    Feel like all these school shootings and threads about purposeless young men are all the same thread. Not to just regurgitate the Unambomber manifesto, but itís technology.

    Angry young men has always been a thing. Young men are the most violent creatures of any period of time. End of story. How they are doing at any period of time is just a reflection of how the world was at that period of time and circumstance.

    Purposeless young men are a relatively new phenomenon in the context of history. They didnít exist until the late 1800s after the Industrial Age.

    50000 years ago, 5000 years ago, 300 years ago, people essentially lived the same. We went from the wheel to the plow and from raping and pillaging to more peaceful, but generally men worked all day in a field or some trade to feed their 5 children that survived out of 10 births. Show me a purposeless young man, and he was the very rare son of some royal or some other rare occurrence.

    Itís not a surprise all the professional sports leagues of the world were founded shortly after the Industrial Age and early technology created the concept of free time.

    People started to have free time, live longer as all technology lends itself to other technology and rapid advancement occurred. Itís quite staggering to think about the last 175 years.

    So itís not altogether surprising that humans who evolved with very little free time didnít know how to make productive use of it.

    Divorce didnít exist in 1850. It stayed under 1 per 1000 until 1920. A lot of that was that it was mostly against the law, but the notion that war has ever been a positive is nonsensical.

    You can draw a straight line from Rosie the Riveter and women entering the workforce and divorce and destabilization of families. You want to see the statistical outlier of all time, check out the divorce rate from 1946. WW2 ended 9/45. Various reasons for that, many kids got married before shipping out, and then the guys left for 4 years, and a lot can happen in 4 years. It didnít hit that number for a year again until the 70s.

    But up until that period, it was certainly a mans world. Women with 4 kids and married to an ass had little options. Horrible double standard, but a double standard is better than no standard when it comes to raising children and stability.

    For all the positive advancements in technology and medicine, radio>tv>internet has been horrible for the health of young people, both mentally and physically.

    I donít blame young people. I was a chubby six year old who loved early video games, and if I had I the option to sit around and play video games all day like they have now and the constant entertainment, I certainly would have sat around and became a fat nerd.

    I watched too much tv, but with 3 channels young and not all that exciting outside Saturday mornings, it wasnít hours a day.

    Thankfully I was born when my friends knocked on my door every ten minutes to come play, I loved sports, wanted to be good and wanted girls, so we lived outside.

    Most kids did. We also had to run the labyrinth of life. Getting beat up by older kids, playing sports against black city kids, needing to call girls from phones attached to our kitchen wall, ask girls to dance, and interact with other kids and adults in order to have a life.

    All that shit is awkward and sucks the first time around, but itís something that prepares you for your later life. You get comfortable being uncomfortable, so it isnít a big deal when you eventually need to walk into a new school or job or whatever adversity arises.

    Technology and parents allowing their children to be raised by the internet is extraordinarily damaging. Thatís why these events occur. Kids go from never having a physical altercation in their life to grabbing an AR-15.


    This happens for a host of reasons. People have fewer kids, so if youíre a good parent, your whole world is wrapped up in that one or two kids and when confronted by a media that has been scaring them about outliers for their entire life, they feel better when their kid is in the other room playing Call of Duty for 8 hours a day, when in reality they are doing the worst thing imaginable to prepare those kids for the real world.

    The murder and pedophile rates were worse when they were kids. There was just a 100 less channels scaring them.

    Most likely with good parents, the kid is just more likely to be socially awkward than a school shooter, but itís unhealthy.

    There was no real obesity 150 years ago. Little a 100 years ago. TV started it, and the internet has spread it across the world. The fat American is a real thing, but everywhere is fat now. Other industrialized nations are only a few points behind us and closing fast.

    If theyíre a shitty parent with problems of their own, they use technology as a babysitter and a lot of these kids are where your really mentally ill kids come from.


    Humans are built to interact. Itís considered inhumane to isolate prisoners for too long, yet we allow kids, and many adults, to isolate themselves and for some reason donít realize itís the root of so many of our ills..

    More than political ideology, more than race, if I wanted to actually identify people who act out in these mass shooting events and stop them before they do, participation in fringe internet groups would be the most common red flag. Not simply being part of one, but actually reading their words.

    If it was legal to simply read, make a common sense decision on what they post online and slow them to obtain weapons, it would actually prevent shootings. Background checks are less useful because often itís some isolated kid whose first criminal act will be mowing down kids.

    But as horrific as these incidents are, our isolated populace manifesting itself in a thousand more profound ways is way more important. What itís done to our physical and mental health is horrible.

    Iíve been amazed at driving around on beautiful days for a decade now and seeing no kids playing anything. As a kid, it would take hours to find a field and every basketball court was five deep waiting to be next up. Now youíre more likely to see a middle aged guy with his wedge and a bag of golf balls in an open field than any kid. Makes me sick.

    Kids that do play, itís travel teams of suburban kids playing against other kids from like communities in a neighboring city. I knew every kid from my area growing up because I was playing against them in some field or league. Weíve ruined that also. Itís some sanitized gated community league.

    We have no real sense of community because weíve replaced actual community and true human interaction with a virtual world thatís ugly.

    Itís fucked up all of us, but kids raised on it more than anyone. Social media has made it even worse. Now I think live-streaming shit seems to have made it even worse. People donít interact. Girls are narcissists fishing for compliments online. Boys get lost in video games or fringe shit if theyíre unlucky and socially awkward. They canít make eye contact with a girl let alone get laid.

    Itís only going to get worse.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalam View Post
    This is something Jordan Peterson and others have talked about a lot, so I am not claiming any great insight of my own. But it is beleived that perhaps one of the most important stabilizing aspects of traditional societies with "enforced monogamy" is that it gave low status young men a purpose and outlet for their natural aggressiveness, so they are much less unpredictable and violent. Have a young man marry young, start a family and give him some long hour, menial job to support his family is actually a great way to keep young males in check. Another traditional strategy which (for good or bad) worked very well was sending a lot of them off to die in wars.

    And with all these shootings (and general lawlessness) we are seeing the results of a society that is doing a very poor job of giving young men purpose and meaning, and controlling their natural impulses. Another instance where we we are radically experimenting with established social norms without properly understanding or appreciating their purpose, and then finding out the hard their true purpose/value at the societal level.
    Naval gazing bullshit.
    Three words of advice for anyone unlucky enough to be born into these incredibly hard times. Deal with it.
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