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Thread: MGM Grand Las Vegas $20k Guarantee Tournament is only paying $19,700

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    MGM Grand Las Vegas $20k Guarantee Tournament is only paying $19,700

    Here's the tournament clock & payout list for Event #11 of the $300 O8 event at MGM Grand Las Vegas. Notice it clearly says "$20k GTD (guaranteed)" at the top, meaning that the prize pool must be at least $20k.

    Name:  mgm-20k.png
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    However, the screen also clearly says that the prize pool is only $19,700!

    Where did the other $300 go? That's a great question!

    I tried manually adding up the listed prizes, and indeed they add up to $19,700.

    Not a huge scandal, obviously, but that $300 really needs to go back in the pool.

    I'll ask MGM for comment via Twitter. Developing...

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Well, I have a likely answer (not from them), but I don't really like it.

    Apparently they are withholding 1.5% of the prizepool for a freeroll at the end. That kinda violates the whole purpose of a guarantee, though.

    Name:  mgm-20k-2.jpg
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    Platinum ftpjesus's Avatar
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    Itís not a big deal however itís still a minor deal and truth is NGC would likely force them to put the $300 back in. Thereís nothing I see in the terms above that allows them to take money from the guarantee to fill that freeroll.

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    It is a big deal imo. It starts with $300, next it's $30,000. This freeroll wasn't a part of this guarantee, wtf is that about?

    The TD is Justin hammer, this guy seems to have problems keeping a job. He was just at Prime Social after losing his job at Commerce. Wasn't at Prime long probably because the owners have had to pay big overlays at some of the tournaments he has run there. Now he moves to MGM and already has had an overlay in 1 tournament in their series and it's not even June yet. Plus this shady $19,700 freeroll crap in this event.

    This dude Hammer seems to be in over his head in my opinion as a TD.

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    Here is how it was explained to me by a tournament director some years ago when I asked why the payouts didn't match the gaurantee:

    The tournament was $300 with 10k guarantee
    $265 to the prize pool, $35 entry fee
    3.5% of the prize pool will be witheld for the dealers(!)
    We only had 35 entries for a prize pool of $9,275. We added $725 to reach the guarantee of 10k
    Then we took out 3.5% ($350) for the dealers, as stated, leaving $9,650.
    See, perfectly normal!
    Not saying I agree with this but when I've looked at other tournaments that didn't meet the guarantee, this seems pretty common.

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    Cubic Zirconia
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReformDorm View Post
    It is a big deal imo. It starts with $300, next it's $30,000. This freeroll wasn't a part of this guarantee, wtf is that about?

    This happened. Tournament of Champions which 1.5% was taken from each tournament to make up a 173k guarantee. During play a prize pool was posted showing nearly 25k for 1st, 17k for 2nd and 3rd 11k.

    MGM staff changed the prize pool during play to reflect a deduction of 30k for the top 15 point earners over the summer. 1st place was now listed at 20,675. Next a player from my table protested the change from 173k to 143k. MGM staff called an unscheduled break and when the dust settled they had diluted the prize pool to 108k. They never posted the final numbers again.

    I went out in 35th place which was paying close to 1800 previously, ended up paying 570. For context 114th received about 250. Top 3 were paid 18.2k, 12.8, and 8.2k. OP said next is 30k in thos situation it was over $60k.

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    Cubic Zirconia
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    Initially I wasn't going to make a big fuss over what they pulled during the tournament of champions. I was happy to play a free roll, and we are all human so mistakes can happen. Two days later during a midnight tournament that only got 8 players they diluted the guarantee from 3k to paying only 1500. When MGM staff were confronted by a cash player that the prize pool was missing money she replied that he should mind his own business as if the players in the tournament didn't notice the same issue.
    Fool me once shame on you, try to fool me a second time and I'm pulling out all the stops. I believe a class action in some form is in order.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegasblack View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ReformDorm View Post
    It is a big deal imo. It starts with $300, next it's $30,000. This freeroll wasn't a part of this guarantee, wtf is that about?

    This happened. Tournament of Champions which 1.5% was taken from each tournament to make up a 173k guarantee. During play a prize pool was posted showing nearly 25k for 1st, 17k for 2nd and 3rd 11k.

    MGM staff changed the prize pool during play to reflect a deduction of 30k for the top 15 point earners over the summer. 1st place was now listed at 20,675. Next a player from my table protested the change from 173k to 143k. MGM staff called an unscheduled break and when the dust settled they had diluted the prize pool to 108k. They never posted the final numbers again.

    I went out in 35th place which was paying close to 1800 previously, ended up paying 570. For context 114th received about 250. Top 3 were paid 18.2k, 12.8, and 8.2k. OP said next is 30k in thos situation it was over $60k.

    I won't play there based on this. Super super shady. Justin Hammer needs to answer for this.

    Does Todd even post in here anymore? He should call MGM and TD Hammer out publicly.

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Okay, now that's really bad.

    $3000 guaranteed with a $1500 prizepool.

    Just a 50% reduction, guys!

    I agree this is terrible. I will say something about this on social media right now. Thanks for posting it here.

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    https://twitter.com/#!/x/status/1551045445325008896


    While the $300 out of the $20k GTD was annoying, I didn't feel it was outrageous.

    This $3000 guarantee being $1500 is outrageous, unless I'm not understanding something major here.

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    Silver The Boz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    https://twitter.com/#!/x/status/1551045445325008896


    While the $300 out of the $20k GTD was annoying, I didn't feel it was outrageous.

    This $3000 guarantee being $1500 is outrageous, unless I'm not understanding something major here.
    Lots of replies on your Twitter feed, so whatís your thoughts now on the situation.

    And whomever runs the MGM poker room Twitter account seems like a dick online.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Boz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    https://twitter.com/#!/x/status/1551045445325008896


    While the $300 out of the $20k GTD was annoying, I didn't feel it was outrageous.

    This $3000 guarantee being $1500 is outrageous, unless I'm not understanding something major here.
    Lots of replies on your Twitter feed, so whatís your thoughts now on the situation.

    And whomever runs the MGM poker room Twitter account seems like a dick online.
    I read the explanation and it's bull imo. They need at least 10 people to honor the guarantee? Small print crap they claim is on the structure sheet or something. Hammer is full of it.

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    Cubic Zirconia
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    I read the explanation and it's bull imo. They need at least 10 people to honor the guarantee? Small print crap they claim is on the structure sheet or something. Hammer is full of it.
    Thank you for following up. I read their explanations and each were nonsense. I have not returned to play at the MGM since this took place. There are too many choices of places to play for me to show up to get stolen from and witness other players get stolen from. I hope they make the proper adjustments.

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