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Thread: **Official** Hustler Casino Live Thread

  1. #21
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsearles22 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I don't think Phil was shooting angles. I think this was a careless moving of his cards. Say what you want about Hellmuth, but he's not known to be an angler.

    Still, it's understandable why his opponent believed it was a fold, especially because the guy was a rec player. Big poker badass Phil should have realized what happened, and just given the guy the pot.
    Careless moving of his cards? He slid them face down in a forward motion. With no audio or any other thing, the video alone is a pretty damn clear fold. The announcer even said fold. The all in player immediately tapped the table as to say nice hand. ThatÂ’s a fold.
    Yes it looked like a fold, and I don't blame anyone (including the announcers) for thinking that.

    However, do you really think Phil is going to shoot his first angle on a very high profile stream, against a rec player?

    I think he made a careless move which looked like a fold, and then didn't feel like he was folding, so he didn't want to give up his hand after the other guy tabled an inferior hand.

  2. #22
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Phil isn't helping himself by acting indignant about it.

    https://twitter.com/phil_hellmuth/status/1521101062161059840


    With that said, several pros are coming out in Phil's corner here, including PFA Radio listeners Matt Glantz.

    https://twitter.com/MattGlantz/status/1521111086585556993

  3. #23

  4. #24
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    I watched it live with sound on. I do think Phil was angling to get information based on verbal or non-verbal reaction to him looking like he was getting ready to fold and then showing his cards; but he didn't expect the other guy to flip his cards up like that. And once the guy did flip his cards up Phil did did try to find a quick resolution that was mostly fair (he is never going to be completely fair, but he didn't try to suck maximum EV out of the situation).

    Do you guys not play poker? That kind of shit happens all the time. You fall for it a time or two (normally in a much, much, much smaller game than 100/200 blinds NLHE) and then you quickly learn not to do anything until the player making the moves verbally says fold and/or their hand touches the muck and is killed by the dealer.

    There was actually a lot of amateur stuff going on, most of it in much bigger hands than that one, so in the flow of the game that wasn't even a big deal and the Mr. Slime guy didn't even really care; so people are making way, way bigger deal about it after the fact than it warrants I think.

    When there is a guy (Mr. Beast) who is basically going all in with garbage every other hand, and another guy (Keating) with 85% VPIP no one was spending a lot of time dwelling on that hand in the moment.
    Last edited by Kalam; 05-02-2022 at 06:33 AM.

  5. #25
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    Mr. Beast was actually down over $300k when I went to bed (around 11 pm) and it looked like it was actually starting to get to him and he didn't really want to play anymore. No matter how much money you have, at some point most people are going to start feeling it when they are losing hundreds of thousands of dollars. Does anyone know, did he keep playing (and losing) or did he tap out?

    It was actually interesting to see in that kind of game how hands like AK and AQ go DOWN in value relatively because you have so much less fold equity than in a normal game. Obviously if you have AK and go all in preflop and someone calls you with Q6o (Mr. Beast) you are going to win in the very long run, but in the short run your EV is lower because you dont have the fold equity you would normally have (that was an actual hand that happened and it was actually almost 50/50 because there were 2 dead kings and one dead ace and the Q6 won).

    Unless you want to buy in super big and play a very high variance post flop game and try to win some monster pots, probably the best strategy in that kind of game is to be very patient, wait for a big pair and then get it in in a 80/20 spot, which isn't very hard to do. For example, at one point Dwan got Kings and got it all in on the flop against a guy (Mr. Beast I think) who flopped bottom pair with no other draw, and doubled up.
    Last edited by Kalam; 05-02-2022 at 06:56 AM.

  6. #26
    Plutonium simpdog's Avatar
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      PositiveVariance: Has to be aggravating for Phil knowing he has a massive edge in this game and lost almost 100K.

  7. #27
    Cubic Zirconia
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    Angle imo.

    The motion (to pass his cards to Dwan I guess) looked 100% like a fold. Normally when I see players do that they have 2 hands on the cards protecting them and they bend them up to give the other player a peek.

    Right after the motion the amateur taps the table. If he wasn't angling it would be at that point Phil would start protesting "woah, I didn't fold". Instead he makes a motion with his fingers to flip over cards. All while intensely staring at the amateur. Never looks at Dwan.

  8. #28
    Plutonium lol wow's Avatar
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    LOL this dudes name is podcast todd make him a mod immediately

  9. #29
    Gold PositiveVariance's Avatar
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    Last edited by PositiveVariance; 05-02-2022 at 08:43 PM.

  10. #30
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Credit to the Hanson kid for finally getting through Phil's thick head.

    What Phil needs to realize is that he's one of the main faces of poker. This makes him a lot different than Johnny Angleseed at Bellagio. You can't ever give the impression to the public that you're screwing lesser players out of money, or it makes the game look horrible. In Phil's spot, you need to be overly generous regarding what you decide to allow in controversial situations. This is especially true if it's on a high profile stream which everyone is watching.

    I don't know what Phil was thinking. I think he lacks such self awareness that he didn't realize how terrible this would come off, and all he could see is that he would have likely won the hand if he had called. I believe that Phil really didn't believe he was folding. I even believe that Phil wasn't angling... he probably really was trying to slide the hand over to Dwan to see. Still, it really had the look of a fold, and he had to realize this and just give up.

    I think getting away with decades of berating people with zero consequence (plus worming out of much criticism in the UB situation) has caused Phil to erroneously believe that he never has to worry about public backlash from anything.

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  12. #32
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Credit to the Hanson kid for finally getting through Phil's thick head.

    What Phil needs to realize is that he's one of the main faces of poker. This makes him a lot different than Johnny Angleseed at Bellagio. You can't ever give the impression to the public that you're screwing lesser players out of money, or it makes the game look horrible. In Phil's spot, you need to be overly generous regarding what you decide to allow in controversial situations. This is especially true if it's on a high profile stream which everyone is watching.

    I don't know what Phil was thinking. I think he lacks such self awareness that he didn't realize how terrible this would come off, and all he could see is that he would have likely won the hand if he had called. I believe that Phil really didn't believe he was folding. I even believe that Phil wasn't angling... he probably really was trying to slide the hand over to Dwan to see. Still, it really had the look of a fold, and he had to realize this and just give up.

    I think getting away with decades of berating people with zero consequence (plus worming out of much criticism in the UB situation) has caused Phil to erroneously believe that he never has to worry about public backlash from anything.
    If it wasn't for Twitter there wouldn't be any "public" backlash. I doubt most of "the public" could even process what happened, as none of the amateur players at the table in the moment were really able to. The "public" in this case is a tiny sliver of poker players on Twitter who have completely manufactured this into an actual issue. "The public" couldn't care less.

  14. #34
    Gold MrTickle's Avatar
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  15. #35
    Mad Neg Repper 1marley1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrTickle View Post
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    How’s Moscow?

  16. #36
    Gold MrTickle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1marley1 View Post
    How’s Moscow?
    Left in early March alongside most other foreigners. From the sounds of things, not much has changed apart from the exodus of foreign companies. The problem is that most foreigners working there were working for companies from their home countries. Also the Visa/MasterCard issue. Otherwise, looks like most people are carrying on as normal

     
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      1marley1: Thanks
      
      Sanlmar:

  17. #37
    All Sorts of Sports gut's Avatar
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      Sanlmar:

  18. #38
    Plutonium Sanlmar's Avatar
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    Helmuth looks like Doyle Brunson at that young table.

  19. #39
    Platinum FRANKRIZZO's Avatar
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    Whats bitcoin platinum? So many offshoots.

  20. #40
    Plutonium simpdog's Avatar
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    Cliffs
    -9.5 hour Druff-like marathon
    -started off smaller and ended 500/1k blinds NL
    -Eric Persson lost a large amount
    -JRB went from -200k to +200k

    -Mikki lost 200k and canceled being on the show tonight (Friday) due to the loss. lol


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