Jewdonk's offer for a truce

[Dan Druff]

Earlier today, I contacted Jewdonk via AIM and calmly told him that we needed to have a discussion for both of our sakes.

The "war" we were having over the past two weeks was benefiting no one, and was escalating to the point to where it was just going to cause damage to both parties.

While I have been involved in my fair share of feuds over these past 8 years on NWP-related forums, I don't enjoy them. I enjoy them even less nowadays. I am 40 years old with a girlfriend and young child, and it's not fun for me to involve myself in these battles of one-upmanship.

A short time into our conversation, Jewdonk proposed a number of terms as to how we can end this. These terms were all reasonable, and were of the "your site doesn't talk about me, my site doesn't talk about you" variety. The truce was basically going to keep our full names and family info off both forums, thus preventing family members from being bothered and from our own names from being used in silly google SEO games. I found all of this to be very fair, and basically told him that I would agree.

At that point, Jewdonk had to go out for a few hours. I told him that I would be doing radio tonight, and that we would talk about it after radio. He agreed. I told him that I would cease any kind of hostile actions (and would ask others I knew were doing it to also cease) until we could talk again.

I was surprised to see that he publicly posted the following at about 5:30pm:

After a short conversation on AIM earlier today, the following resolutions have been made and agreed upon by both parties.

Todd and I were to speak later after radio, but my stance on the following is pretty firm, and he would have gotten pretty much the same responses and text posted below

.




#1 Todd is going to be emailing my sister apologizing for his latest communications with her.


This was one of the conditions that I was adamant about.

I'd like to point out that not once in the last 5+ years on these forums have I ever attempted to communicate on any level with any of Todd's family members, nor have I encouraged it from other participating members of past or present Tyde forums.

I think that crosses a line in the sand, and one of the mitigating factors behind allowing these latest dupes here to post images and defamatory content about him recently.

I think Todd would concede that he created all these 'family dupes' on his site as a knee-jerk reaction to my refusal to edit content here.

I'd also like an admission that the story of my 'fraudulent business practices' was imaginary.


______


# 2 Each of us has agreed to edit each others full names via-VBulletin privacy controls from being posted on our respective websites, and all 'family related' inferences, images and content will be deleted upon request


Of course all of this 'family' related content is completely idiotic.

I'll concede that operating a message forum does come with a certain amount of responsibility. I was intentionally 'hands off' upon launch here for obvious reasons. I don't appreciate being muscled and threatened.

But that is in the past, and Todd was a big enough man to approach me looking to forge a resolution today.


_____



# 3 All threads created on both sites from their inception about myself and Todd will be immediately deleted.


We are both looking to put this to bed once and for all. Not to suggest we are going to be giving each other foot-massages any time in the near future, but this is bad for business on multiple levels.

I think Druff would like to grow his website, as I'd like to grow mine. But this back and forth-IP Ban-multiple dupe bashing is spinning out of control at this point and won't end well for anybody. I think Todd and I are in full agreement on this.

______


# 4 I'll be banning all users from this site with 'Todd-related' screen names

I know some of you may be pissed, but you are welcome to register new accounts under another screen name, or better yet just send me a PM and request that I change your current name to a new name. I will be banning all dupes bashing Todd on Friday afternoon at 12 PM (to give some of you ample notice)

Todd has agreed to delete all of my family dupes (and content) from his site, and any other of my 'troll' accounts from Pokerfraudalert.com. I'm going to reciprocate and do the same for him in the interest of fairness, and because neither of us have the time to invest in this bloodbath anymore.

_______


The last week for both Todd and I has not be pleasant. There has been massive tilt on both ends for obvious reasons

I'd like to thank him for reaching out and making a genuine effort to be reasonable and civil. After all the tactics being implemented over the last week by both of us, (which most of you reading this know less than nothing about) I'm relieved to at least find some middle ground.

This has been an ongoing conflict for the better part of the last 5 years now which covers a wide variety of dramas, personality clashes, back-stabbing, and internet warfare on levels you cannot even fathom or comprehend as 'observers'

I'd imagine that Todd accepts an equal portion of the blame here for a lot of this residual fallout and reaction(s) from forum posters.

______


Another important note is that this particular battle was about to get nasty. We both agree that it's a good time to strike some kind of mutual agreement, for the better of the state of these forums, and for our own self preservation.

______


Now the kicker...


Without stating the obvious, Todd and I have been at each others throats for a long time, and have forged certain 'alliances' along the way.

This goes without saying.

I made mwh a moderator here because we've both shared the same feelings about Todd in the past, and admittedly I knew it would tilt the shit out of him.

guilty as charged

Mike and I spoke for quite a while after my conversation with Todd today, and both of us have one additional request

Todd (in good faith) offered to remove my IP ban and allow me to 'lurk' on PFA if we were in agreement on the terms I proposed (as stated above)

How about we take this a step further...

completely unban myself and mwh and allow us to post freely under the same conditions. In exchange, Todd is welcome to contribute and interact on the pages of my lsite like any other poster.

mwh was rather insistent on this

Bottom line is that he and I are in full agreement to eliminate this family nonsense and edit this brand of content from both of our respective websites.

If Todd want's to register an account here again and respond, he is more than welcome to. I imagine this will get re-posted on PFA

My final note is that I would urge Todd to lift ALL proxy bans and allow randoms to lurk the pages of PFA.

Obviously this contains some additional terms that were not discussed in this afternoon's AIM chat.

Here is my response:

#1: Yes, I will send an apology letter to your sister. I cannot take credit for all of the dupes, nor will I identify the people behind them. However, I will admit that the "website scam" account was a dupe and the accusation was bogus. Again, I will not identify the person behind it, but I will say that I know the whole thing was fabricated. It was done in response to the bogus accusations against me on the front page of Jewdonk's site.

#2: Yes, I will delete all of the "family dupes", as well as remove their threads, posts, and info. I will delete all Jewdonk family-related info. I will remove all references to Jewdonk's full name and censor it on this site. This, of course, is with the agreement that all family-related info/pictures is removed from Jewdonk's site, and that my full name is censored from his site.

#3: This one is a little bit tougher. This is because Jewdonk was a member of this site for a few weeks when it first opened, and I can't remove every message that ever talked about him. However, I will be willing to work with him here and remove any threads/messages that were blatantly trolling him. I will remove his full name, as agreed in #2. I will also delete all of the Jewdonk-related stuff from the past 2 weeks, including the "fraudulent business" claim thread.

#4: Nothing to say here, since this is an action Jewdonk will be taking (deleting all Todd-bashing dupes), and I appreciate that.

Regarding the Jewdonk's IP ban: I will unban his IP from lurking here. I actually offered that myself during our AIM chat.

Regarding Jewdonk's account ban: I cannot lift that at this time, because Jewdonk's presence tends to bring a lot of attention, and he rarely just "blends in" anywhere. I don't want this site to be dominated by any one person -- not even me. (This is why I don't have my picture on top of the site, or even a box containing my Tweets.) Perhaps I will lift the ban on a trial basis in the future, but I can't do this right now. I hope that this decision will not ruin the rest of the progress we have made today.

Regarding mwh72: I don't know why Jewdonk is including him in this whole thing. He has nothing to do with my 5-year history of trouble with Jewdonk, other than to sometimes make it worse (including this past week). I never understood his obsession with me. It is fine if he dislikes me, but he has pushed it to the point of crazy obsession, and this is a guy I have never met nor harmed in any way. I don't even know his last name. He also harassed my previous girlfriend for no apparent reason, and only let up with that after we broke up. Even worse, this isn't some juvenile 18-year-old we're dealing with here. The guy is 40 years old, just like me. I am definitely not unbanning him here. He has offered very little content on these forums in the past several years aside from trolling me. I am willing to unban his IP and let him freely lurk here if he agrees to drop this obsession with me and leave me alone. I am aware that he finds ways to lurk here anyway (browsing on his phone, etc), but I'm sure that's a pain in the ass and he'd prefer to lurk normally.

I hope this whole thing can end, and I especially hope that this truce won't last its usual 3-6 months before flaring up again into something bad. I hope this can end our problems once and for all. I am not interested in continuing an endless fight with Jewdonk.

[Dan Druff]

Oh, and anyone can feel free to repost this on his site, since I don't remember which IP is his anymore (I just threw it into the ban list), so I'm not sure if he can see this.

[peter mcneil]

no reason for Tyde not to accept this. MWH is a grown man who can fight his own battles. I don't know the back story on any of this, anyone have an idea what MWH is so obsessed with Druff?

[bukowski72]

Not Allowing Marty to read this site was a large mistake by Druff and is now corrected.

This will all be worked out satisfactorily for today and in less than 5 months the Druff Marty battle will begin again because Marty hates Druff.

[Muck Ficon]

Lol. What's the point in making a "truce" with a guy like Jewdonk? It's the same shit over and over. He gets some booze in him, thinks he is a bad ass, and talks shit. When he sobers up he realizes he's in way over his head and agrees to stop. Well, at least this is done for now. Hopefully we get a month of peace before this shit all happens again.

[Dan Druff]

Here is his response. I will post my answer shortly:

I was almost asleep and decided to refresh my site one more time

glad I did

look Todd, the choice is pretty simple here

I have no inherent 'loyalty' to mwh here. I'm not siding with him for my health. We met ONCE

But now we have a stated REFUSAL to unban either of us because we tend to 'dominate' the forums

I don't want to be unbanned from PFA to hijack your forum Todd. I don't think mwh does either

you have always had this tendency to eliminate posters who want to challenge you. Either via 'ban' or lawsuits or other forms of intimidation when you get backed into a corner

I'm not 'loyal' to mwh in any way, shape or form. We met once at the MGM and when I did a radio show in his hotel room. Quite frankly I don't give a fuck about your 'issues' are with him

I offered to let you post on my site ( like I did with the other previous versions )

Any poster on your site is welcome to post here, but you are refusing an invitation to post here and reply to this thread.

Need I remind you that you have been 'banning' me for the last 5 years and yet still, here we are. The only posters that are banned from your site are people that challenge you.

my door is wide open for you here any time you care to chime in

As far as our previous AIM conversation goes, you approached me to resolve this, not the other way around.

I think considering that after you admitted to contacting my sister (again), AND you are getting an open invitation to post on my site, that you owe me the courtesy of being able to reply on a forum that I have been banned from for obvious reasons

I want mwh and myself to be UNBANNED and you can live by the guidelines we all are subject to

warm regards I'm going to bed

P.S. just re-read my post before I crash out, and it looks pretty good to me

later dorks

[zealanddonk]

My read is that the MWH clause is so that if jewdonk needs an excuse for problems later it'll be "but Druff didnt agree to everything". Conspiracy theory suggests MWH helped Jewdonk write up the truce because it seems way too lucid.

On the plus side, it lets you redress some issues you werent happy with, tidy some things up and if Jewdonk breaks the truce then you can bring this back up again.

Sad day when Jewdonk shows more sense than Micon though.

***edit***

Didnt see Druff's post in-between about Jewdonk's reply.
Seems Jewdy's got some sort of freedom fighter fetish going on and decided to pick someone Druff would never agree to, so he doesnt actually have to have a truce.

[sonatine]

Here is his response. I will post my answer shortly:

later dorks

[Dan Druff]

My response:

I still don't understand why mwh72 is part of this. As you stated yourself, he is not even a close friend of yours. He has nothing to do with this entire situation, aside from inflaming it for his own amusement.

The reason mwh72 is banned is very different than the reason you are banned.

mwh72 is banned because he has an unhealthy obsession with me and harassed my last girlfriend for years for no particular reason. I'm sure you can understand why I don't want him to be part of my site. He was never allowed here.

You are banned because your presence ends up dominating the forum. I allowed you to register and post on my site for a few weeks at the beginning. For the first week, it went fine. After that, all hell broke loose, and the site became "The Jewdonk Show". I realize that some people enjoy The Jewdonk Show, and that's what your site is for. However, it just doesn't fit in at PFA, where I don't want any one person dominating the forum. I realize that some of this wasn't your fault, as you have trolls that like to pester you, but you also did your share of starting up with people out of nowhere. I might be willing to try an "unban Marty" experiment again in the future, but now is not the right time for that.

More importantly, I don't see why either of the above terms should have anything to do with preventing both of our sites from being used to harm both our families and each other. You are 48 years old, I am 40, and nearly everyone agrees that this fighting between us has grown old, tired, and not enjoyable to watch.

Please note that I approached you today not out of fear or desperation, but rather because the whole thing is stressful and will continue to cause problems for both of us for as long as it continues. I feel that I am being very fair with my offers, and all of it is sincere. Please do not try to parlay this into additional, unrelated concessions, especially involving mwh72. Regarding your own access, that can be discussed and revisited later.

[Dan Druff]

This is like the UIGEA being inserted into the Port Security Bill.

[SrslySirius]

This is like Civ4 when you offer a cease fire in the trade table, then demand gold and technology on top.

...

I'll see my way out.

[Muck Ficon]

This is like Civ4 when you offer a cease fire in the trade table, then demand gold and technology on top.

...

I'll see my way out.

What the fuck are you talking about?

[peter mcneil]

This is like Civ4 when you offer a cease fire in the trade table, then demand gold and technology on top.

...

I'll see my way out.

What the fuck are you talking about?

vid game reference - he's comparing the negotation where it seems to be a fair trade then one side demands something ridiculous that the other will never agree to.

[gut]

The PFA forum 10 years from now.....

[Pooh]

Druff,

You have a possible outcome here that you never thought possible just a few days ago. I say take it and let them post here, with conditions of course.

Make them sign a contract. This actually felt stupid to type that as this place is pure entertainment for most of us. It's very serious business to you three though. It's obvious that Jewdonk starts this every time, you just want to go on with your life. Make him sign a contract so you can actually punish him if he ever does this again. Nip it in the bud.

MWH is a solid poster when he isn't constantly trolling you. Let him post here. Let the contract state that two things are off limits. No discussing any of your family, including girlfriend, ever. Never discuss anything that did or did not happen at DD, ever. He seems to be caught up on the toots situation. It's fucking stupid. The bitch was an adult. If what you did was so bad then she could have gone to the police, which she didn't.

If they don't sign, they don't post. End of story.

Plus, the addition of those two posters here would make a better site in my opinion. If they can control themselves, which a contract would help enforce.

[Deal]

Fences make good neighbours. Druff and Jewdonk are a toxic mix of personalities. Bring them together and there will be an explosion. If Jewdonk seriously wants this shit to end then him not posting here and Druff not posting on his site is the way to go. Try it for 6 months.

[Mad Dad]

The idea that special rules are needed for anyone is ridiculous. Difficult posters can help to flesh out rules and forum modifications that need to be applied fairly and to all. Unbanning anyone that asks is reasonable combined with insistence on strict adherence to the rules is reasonable. Pre-judging someone's future actions is not reasonable. Not agreeing to something beneficial because of what might happen in the future is just being difficult.

I don't know why any of this is being discussed in public. There is no benefit to anyone for public discussions like this. If you want to have an agreement with someone, you speak to them privately, where you can check your ego, your posturing and your persona at the door. Then you keep talking until you reach agreement or decide further talk is futile. If you reach an agreement you keep to the agreement.

[Deal]

The idea that special rules are needed for anyone is ridiculous. Difficult posters can help to flesh out rules and forum modifications that need to be applied fairly and to all. Unbanning anyone that asks is reasonable combined with insistence on strict adherence to the rules is reasonable. Pre-judging someone's future actions is not reasonable. Not agreeing to something beneficial because of what might happen in the future is just being difficult.

I don't know why any of this is being discussed in public. There is no benefit to anyone for public discussions like this. If you want to have an agreement with someone, you speak to them privately, where you can check your ego, your posturing and your persona at the door. Then you keep talking until you reach agreement or decide further talk is futile. If you reach an agreement you keep to the agreement.

That is how two stable sane individuals would handle things. That is not what we have to work with here. With sane individuals there would be no desire for either of them to post on each others forums after what has occurred. Desiring that ability is a kin to desiring a future battle, pretty much an admittance of insanity.

[Mad Dad]

That is how two stable sane individuals would handle things. That is not what we have to work with here. With sane individuals there would be no desire for either of them to post on each others forums after what has occurred. Desiring that ability is a kin to desiring a future battle, pretty much an admittance of insanity.

Individuals that are not sane, cannot make enforceable arrangements. I chalk it up instead to (much) larger than average egos. People with large egos always attract fire. It goes with the territory. Then add into the mix what many people see as being a holier than thou attitude and you get - well - you get what we have.

[LLL]

I'm not pulling a Gamble here but part of the reason I post here is because Jewdonk doesn't.