RIP All American Dave (at the WSOP, that is)

[Dan Druff]

All American Dave, not to be confused with scammy sportsbetting tout Vegas Dave or former poker pro Hollywood Dave, has been a staple at the Rio WSOP.

He provided good, healthy, albeit expensive food, from a stand he set up in the back area of the Rio. Dave hired a bunch of pretty girls to deliver the food to the tables, but you could also pick it up from the stand yourself.



It was well-liked, and many swore by it. Brandon had a bit of a problem with one of those delivery girls some years back, and talked about it on radio. Dave jumped to action and was very gracious/apologetic about it, comping Brandon a meal. He didn't know we had PFA Radio, so it wasn't about that. Just seems like a good guy who appreciates his customers.

Anyway, since the WSOP is moving to Bally's/Paris this year, they just informed Dave that he's a gonner.

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https://twitter.com/AllAmericanDave/status/1499123137014685696



Dave deserved better. They likely didn't want the competition with their own in-house food outlets, but Dave had such a long (and good) history with the WSOP, they should have made an exception. I hope they reconsider.

[Jayjami]

Fucking bs. I got me an AAD hoodie. Good nutritious food easily accessible during breaks. The food court at the WSOP has always been barely edible.

[Dan Druff]

Hellmuth getting involved, so maybe they will find a way for All American Dave to at least be delivered there.

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https://twitter.com/phil_hellmuth/status/1499167974850121729

[Dan Druff]

Bad ending for all. And I've lost a lot of sympathy for Dave.

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https://twitter.com/AllAmericanDave/status/1514398821224046592

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https://twitter.com/ToddWitteles/status/1514427179295117314

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https://twitter.com/AllAmericanDave/status/1514434205052071940

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https://twitter.com/mEVpoker/status/1514414811815157762

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https://twitter.com/mEVpoker/status/1514415950107344896


Poker community is mixed so far, though this announcement just dropped tonight, so I'm sure more reaction is forthcoming.

Some blame WSOP for this, and claim that player balances are just a casualty of the business that got ruined by WSOP's decision, which was apparently forced by the culinary union. Therefore, they say that the business is dead, and Dave should not be responsible to pay anyone back.

I feel differently. Players have patronized Dave over the years in part due to a strong personal connection to him and his brand's strong characfer and ethics. This wasn't just a situation of a large business going under, and customers losing credit they held for future purchases. Dave WAS the business, and players trusted him. Nobody had any clue that, when leaving money on deposit for a year or more, that the money was at risk.

Also, Dave seems to have been living an expensive lifestyle, including this month. He posted a picture of a trip in Fiji just two days ago, and has other pictures on social media of a high-flying lifestyle. Even if he somehow has no assets now, he can at least pledge to pay people back once he gets on his feet. He isn't. He seems to just want to wash his hands of this.

[PositiveVariance]

Unfortunate situation.
As far as Covid putting him in a bad spot financially, I don’t know of a single business that got turned down for a PPP loan that applied. Maybe he runs under the table and doesn’t report anything. No reason he shouldn’t have received PPP in both 2020 and 2021.

I see one guy commented on Twitter that he had $1,000 balance. Makes you wonder why these people purchased such high dollar plans to begin with.

[Dan Druff]

Embedded Tweet

https://twitter.com/AllAmericanDave/status/1514453699606679556

[AhoosierA]

Another case of not segregating funds in the poker world!

Time to move this to the "Scams, Scandals, & Shadiness" section, no?

[JoeD]

Sounds like AAD is now promising to make things right, over time, with things of value.

A lot of errors in this case:

- Funds should definitely have been segregated and not used for operations (or perhaps even personal use)

- Not a good idea for players to leave or roll over the funds "on account" since its been clear for quite some time that COVID has affected the business and WSOP and that the WSOP is moving venues from the RIO to Ballys. Caesars instability speaks for itself.

- AAD should have incorporated or created an LLC to operate his business. He's now got the uncomfortable conundrum of having to file a personal bankruptcy if this can't get resolved, which means his personal assets will be subject to the BK process rather than just the assets of a business entity

- AAD should have thought the business operations through more carefully given the change of venue, COVID delays, and even Vegas Unions

If he owns an actual Food Truck (not clear to me), maybe he needs to just sell the truck and settle with the players he owes.

[PositiveVariance]

I would be curious as to the number of people that have outstanding balances. Many of these people may not see his post on Twitter and will only find out their money is gone when they go to the WSOP this year.

It's really hard to say if he really plans to make it right. It's just really easy for him to say he will make it right in the future without much of a downside in the short or long run. He can just keep saying he doesn't have it. Eventually people will stop asking since it's not a large amount to any one single person.

If he still has that food truck in the picture, that would more than likely pay everyone he owes. These trucks are very pricey.

I don't use Twitter, but I wish someone would ask him about PPP loans. If you gave the documents the bank ask for, you got the loan. In 2021 when they let the self employed apply that had zero employees get PPP, people doing Uber were getting around 20k. I'm sure he could of got 100k. Maybe he did get it and he spent it on rubbish.

[PositiveVariance]

Does he have this truck at another location when the WSOP is not running?

Does he run it for 7 or so weeks out of the year at the WSOP and then just chill?

It seems like if he has such a following, it wouldn't be difficult for him to set up at a permanent spot in Vegas and gain a dedicated group of people that want a healthy alternative.

[Dan Druff]

He and I were conversing privately (he initiated the discussion), and I kept repeatedly telling him that, at minimum, he needs to pledge to pay people back once he gets back on his feet.

I told him that players trusted him, and that's why they bought big meal packages, often way in advance, and often knowing their balances may have to carry over to future years.

Apparently nobody had the option to "cash out" at the end of the 2021 WSOP, either. They were simply stuck waiting for a service which never came.

When a community trusts you and builds a relationship with you, that doesn't mean you should walk away without refunding them for unused services, even if you can get away with it. The only reason you had that extra money in the first place was because people trusted you NOT to screw them.

Dave apparently mulled it over, and tweeted this:

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https://twitter.com/AllAmericanDave/status/1514632823897931778


That's some progress.


Hopefully he really makes good.

[Dan Druff]

Matt Vaughn has been under attack by various Twitter trolls, because he had the AUDACITY to ask about his $500 or so in remaining funds. (He asked this before Dave clarified that people weren't getting it back.)

People were attacking him for being petty and for making such inquiries "too soon", on the same day Dave made the depressing announcement about the end of the business.

I found these attacks to be ridiculous. Dave was announcing the end of his business. He wasn't informing the public that his mother just died. If someone posts about mourning their recently-deceased mom, and a person comes back with, "Where's the $500 you owe me?", that's bad form. If someone posts that their business has gone under, and you ask them what will happen to the funds he was holding for you, that's perfectly reasonable.

At the same time, some trolls were also attacking Vaughn for listing he/him in his Twitter profile. While I agree with the trolls that this is virtue signaling cringe (Vaughn is a heterosexual man who was born male and looks male), it's not really relevant here. I defended Vaughn's recent tweets while also noting that the he/him thing is something he is best off removing.

[Dan Druff]

He got a $243k PPP loan.

The loan: https://www.sba.com/ppp-funded-compa...imited-3207323

Notice it's to "Swanning Limited" in Las Vegas.

Here's the connection between All American Dave to Swanning Limited (see bottom of page): https://blepay.clarkcountynv.gov/ble...asp?ID=2145024


Swanning Limited also shown to belong to Dave here: https://opencorporates.com/companies.../E0183592013-8

[Dan Druff]

He's offering to send people items in lieu of repayment.

Someone got sent a blender. Another got sent "grass fed beef". He gives them a list and they choose what they want.

I'm not joking. He also does own the truck, which hasn't been sold yet.

[JeffDime]

He's offering to send people items in lieu of repayment.

Someone got sent a blender. Another got sent "grass fed beef". He gives them a list and they choose what they want.

I'm not joking. He also does own the truck, which hasn't been sold yet.

All stuff he wants to get rid of/liquidate anyways. He may not even have the stupid “grass fed beef”, it just fits into his bullshit narrative. He could of gotten away with the scumbaggery if not for his final act of greed. The PPP loan of 250K makes his statement that he operated at the WSOP at a loss last year ridiculous.

If he just gave people back their funds (which considering the loan he 110% should have the ability to do) he would of gotten away free & clear. Now we know what kind of guy he is.

[Daly]

I’m taking odds on anyone getting made whole outside of someone getting sent the occasional blender or whatever leftover asset.

Any money he’s collected in deposit or from Uncle Sam the business is going to pocket.

It’s a bankrupt business. His name will be mud in poker. But at the end of the day he doesn’t need his name in this community anymore as he just got the boot.

Classic let the buyer beware situation. No reason to have any material $$ tied up in a wsop food plan.

[PositiveVariance]

He got a $243k PPP loan.

The loan: https://www.sba.com/ppp-funded-compa...imited-3207323

Notice it's to "Swanning Limited" in Las Vegas.

Here's the connection between All American Dave to Swanning Limited (see bottom of page): https://blepay.clarkcountynv.gov/ble...asp?ID=2145024


Swanning Limited also shown to belong to Dave here: https://opencorporates.com/companies.../E0183592013-8

Great work.

Maybe someone can put him on blast on Twitter and ask where that quarter million went.

There is no way he burned that kind of money on his business. He is not in a Business where you can get heavily upside down. He has labor and food cost. No doubt this was donked off on personal shit.



Apparently Twitter is to "Toxic" for him. He is going to "check out" for awhile.

[Sidewinder]

Anyone that voted for a Democrat governor in any state should be stiffed.

[Dan Druff]

Luke Vrabel aka Slaydog already found this thread and put the PPP stuff out there. So it's known, at least by some. All American Dave has also left Twitter for awhile:

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https://twitter.com/AllAmericanDave/status/1515080554156232706


Dave has also protected his tweets, and several people have been blocked.

Two distinct camps have developed on Twitter.

There's the "All American Dave is a scammer and a scumbag" camp, and there's the "All American Dave is a great guy, and anyone piling on him is a piece of shit" camp.

I actually am in neither of those camps.

I don't believe All American Dave was looking to scam people at any point.

At the same time, I believe Dave probably lived a lifestyle which left him with little savings, and when the summer windfall of money stopped in 2020, trouble happened. He probably couldn't slow himself down, and burned through every penny he was holding, including the unused meal funds.

Whether or not the vacation to Fiji was an actual vacation or just to end his long-standing rental there is immaterial. What we know for sure is that he was renting property in Fiji for the past few years (at least), despite it being clear since early 2020 that his business might be in trouble, due to both COVID and the soon-to-be-changed Rio venue.

It was unethical to take long term meal money from people, given that he wasn't certain he could operate in 2022. As has been pointed out by many, even if WSOP allowed him to operate in 2022, he wouldn't have had any funds to do so, and would have had to take loans to do so -- if he could get them!

When it's all said and done, Dave suffered from the same affliction which felts many poker pros and leaves them owing people money -- poor bankroll management, followed by unethical "borrowing" to stay afloat. Just like a poker player borrowing money "because I can't access it right now" when in reality he's busto, Dave sold future meals to people when he didn't know if his business really had a future.

At the same time, he wasn't looking to rip people off, and legitimately wishes he could still be at WSOP serving people food this summer.

[PositiveVariance]

He mentions the "WSOP was his business". Most people would love to have a business they can run 7 weeks per year that supports them all year. In my opinion he really took this for granted. It's one thing if he had assets to fall back on. If I was in his position, I would have took that income from the 7 weeks each year and considered it a windfall. Do something the other 45 weeks per year to support yourself. It's one thing if he was semi-retired and had assets to fall back on, but he didn't.
He Works 7 weeks per year, then wonders what happened when shit goes bad.