Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: Thank goodness that housing descrimination against minorities is totally not a thing anymore in America, amirite?

  1. #1
    100% Organic MumblesBadly's Avatar
    Reputation
    94
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    In the many threads of this forum
    Posts
    9,408
    Load Metric
    65668798

    Thank goodness that housing descrimination against minorities is totally not a thing anymore in America, amirite?

    A Black couple ‘erased themselves’ from their home to see if the appraised value would go up. It did - by nearly $500,000

    https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/...r-16672840.php

    Paul Austin thought things were going well when the appraiser came to his Marin City home last January.

    The appraiser complimented the views of the San Francisco Bay, and he was sure to point out all the improvements, Austin recalled at an Oct. 13 meeting of a state reparations task force. So he and his wife Tenisha Tate-Austin were shocked when the appraisal valued their home at $995,000 — nearly half-a-million dollars less than another appraisal 10 months earlier.

    The couple, who is Black, got a second opinion last February. This time, they asked a white friend named Jan to sit at the kitchen island and pretend to be the homeowner. They also “white-washed” their home by hiding art and family photos. That appraiser said their house was worth $1,482,500.

    The $487,500 discrepancy between the two 2020 appraisals pushed the couple to filed a fair housing lawsuit in federal district court this week against appraiser Janette Miller, her appraisal firm Miller and Perotti Real Estate Appraisers, Inc. and national appraisal company AMC Links, LLC. It’s the latest escalation in a series of similar cases of alleged racial bias in the home appraisal process as California property owners move to reap financial gains from record home prices.

    “We did our homework,” Austin told the Reparations Task Force in a panel on the racial wealth gap in October. “We believe the white lady wanted to devalue our property because we are in a Black neighborhood, and the home belonged to a Black family.”

    Miller’s firm and AMC Links, LLC did not respond to requests for comment.

    Researchers at the Brookings Institution have found that owner-occupied homes in majority-Black U.S. neighborhoods are undervalued by an average $48,000 per home, representing some $156 billion in cumulative losses — a dynamic that has prompted calls for policy reform to automate more of the home valuation process and otherwise minimize bias. Some in the appraisal industry, meanwhile, contend that the process is inherently subjective and driven by extreme pressure to increase home values, opening appraisers to unfair personal liability when homeowners disagree with the results.

    In the case of Austin and Tate-Austin, the large appraisal discrepancy illustrates how even Bay Area residents able to purchase a home in one of the nation’s most expensive real estate markets can be shut out of some of the massive wealth generated by increasing property values.

    The Austin family bought the home in late 2016 for $550,000, according to the lawsuit, and Austin said they spent around $400,000 expanding the footprint, renovating the interior and adding features like an outdoor deck and an in-law unit with bay views. With the higher second appraisal designed to take race out of the equation, the home is now worth nearly triple what they paid five years ago.

    “There are definitely things about this complaint that are uniquely strong,” said the couple’s attorney, Julia Howard-Gibbon of Fair Housing Advocates of Northern California. “They erased themselves from the home, essentially.”

    Though similar cases with extreme differences in appraisal values have also surfaced in Oakland, Stockton and other California cities with a large Black population, the new lawsuit revolves around the North Bay’s unique racial dynamics.

    Austin knows firsthand that Marin City, an unincorporated area wedged between affluent Sausalito and Mill Valley, grew out of the pre-World War II migration of tens of thousands of Black workers seeking employment around the Sausalito shipyard. His own grandparents lived and worked there. Though they saved money to move to other areas of Marin County, Austin said in his October testimony that they were unable to buy property elsewhere because of exclusionary practices like discriminatory bank lending and racial covenants.

    The fact that his family encountered what seemed like a new version of the same old problem more than a half-century later, he said at the October meeting, made him feel ill.

    “My stomach hurt, my head hurt, just because of what we went through,” Austin said. “I don’t wish that on anybody.”

    Attorneys for the couple argue in the new lawsuit that “Marin City has a long history of undervaluation based on stereotypes, redlining, discriminatory appraisal standards, and actual or perceived racial demographics.” By focusing the first appraisal only on the small number of homes sold in the immediate Marin City area, Howard-Gibbon said the appraiser “built an invisible barrier” around the home by comparing it only to other sale prices in a long-marginalized area — a result she called “recycled discrimination.”

    The plaintiffs are seeking a jury trial, financial damages and a court order directing the appraisers to take action to ensure the issues in the complaint are not repeated.

    Austin said at the October meeting that he is also focused on ongoing issues like recent desegregation orders issued for Marin County schools. He still can’t help but notice that neighbors’ homes on smaller lots have already crept up to values around $1.6 or $1.7 million.

    “Yes, I do want to see a change,” Austin said. “I don’t want to see my children have to deal with this.”
    Waiting for Druff to explain away how this is a nothingburger.
    _____________________________________________
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I actually hope this [second impeachment] succeeds, because I want Trump put down politically like a sick, 14-year-old dog. ... I don't want him complicating the 2024 primary season. I just want him done.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Were Republicans cowardly or unethical not to go along with [convicting Trump in the second impeachment Senate trial]? No. The smart move was to reject it.

  2. #2
    Gold The Boz's Avatar
    Reputation
    790
    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Posts
    1,035
    Load Metric
    65668798
    It’s 2021, who is paying an appraiser to let them know what their house is worth? Everything is on the internet and comparables are easy to find in almost any marketplace, especially theirs.

    This sounds like a scam from the start to file a lawsuit. “Reparations Task Force” is also a dead giveaway.

    Hopefully now his taxes are subject to reassessment and he starts paying his “fair share”.

  3. #3
    Plutonium Sanlmar's Avatar
    Reputation
    4291
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    21,090
    Load Metric
    65668798
    a purchase of $550k in San Fran in 2016 has got to be the ghetto. Not kidding. That was a condo price.

  4. #4
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
    Reputation
    10110
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    54,626
    Blog Entries
    2
    Load Metric
    65668798
    They got two appraisals from two different appraisers which were widely apart. The lower one was with the black owners present, and the higher one was with a fake white owner present.

    What does this prove? Absolutely nothing.

    Why? Because there were two different appraisers involved, and appraisals have been known to have extremely wide variance, due to their subjectivity.

    Had they gotten 20 appraisals, and all 10 with the black owners were substantially lower than the other 10 with the fake white owner, then we could conclude something.

    Come on, Mumbles. Sample size way, way, way too small here. Did they not require you to take some basic statistics courses in all of your studies?

  5. #5
    Gold
    Reputation
    308
    Join Date
    Sep 2020
    Posts
    1,741
    Load Metric
    65668798
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    They got two appraisals from two different appraisers which were widely apart. The lower one was with the black owners present, and the higher one was with a fake white owner present.

    What does this prove? Absolutely nothing.

    Why? Because there were two different appraisers involved, and appraisals have been known to have extremely wide variance, due to their subjectivity.

    Had they gotten 20 appraisals, and all 10 with the black owners were substantially lower than the other 10 with the fake white owner, then we could conclude something.

    Come on, Mumbles. Sample size way, way, way too small here. Did they not require you to take some basic statistics courses in all of your studies?
    On top of this, this entire story is an anecdote where only one perspective is being given, and none of the details being provided are verified. Who knows how true this story even is? This story came out over a year ago and went through the news cycle then. And I guess now it is a story again because allegedly they are filing a lawsuit. You would think if this was an actual issue as big as is being portrayed in the story, we wouldn't have to keep recycling the same anecdote as "evidence" for 2 years straight.

    But yeah, two years ago we bought a house and after we bought it the banks appraiser appraised the house way lower than we paid, and completely out of synch with what houses in that neighborhood were actually going for, and we had to make a significantly larger down payment because of this.

  6. #6
    Nova Scotia's #1 Party Rocker!!!!11 DJ_Chaps's Avatar
    Reputation
    939
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Halifax
    Posts
    6,604
    Load Metric
    65668798
    Quote Originally Posted by MumblesBadly View Post
    A Black couple ‘erased themselves’ from their home to see if the appraised value would go up. It did - by nearly $500,000

    https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/...r-16672840.php

    Paul Austin thought things were going well when the appraiser came to his Marin City home last January.

    The appraiser complimented the views of the San Francisco Bay, and he was sure to point out all the improvements, Austin recalled at an Oct. 13 meeting of a state reparations task force. So he and his wife Tenisha Tate-Austin were shocked when the appraisal valued their home at $995,000 — nearly half-a-million dollars less than another appraisal 10 months earlier.

    The couple, who is Black, got a second opinion last February. This time, they asked a white friend named Jan to sit at the kitchen island and pretend to be the homeowner. They also “white-washed” their home by hiding art and family photos. That appraiser said their house was worth $1,482,500.

    The $487,500 discrepancy between the two 2020 appraisals pushed the couple to filed a fair housing lawsuit in federal district court this week against appraiser Janette Miller, her appraisal firm Miller and Perotti Real Estate Appraisers, Inc. and national appraisal company AMC Links, LLC. It’s the latest escalation in a series of similar cases of alleged racial bias in the home appraisal process as California property owners move to reap financial gains from record home prices.

    “We did our homework,” Austin told the Reparations Task Force in a panel on the racial wealth gap in October. “We believe the white lady wanted to devalue our property because we are in a Black neighborhood, and the home belonged to a Black family.”

    Miller’s firm and AMC Links, LLC did not respond to requests for comment.

    Researchers at the Brookings Institution have found that owner-occupied homes in majority-Black U.S. neighborhoods are undervalued by an average $48,000 per home, representing some $156 billion in cumulative losses — a dynamic that has prompted calls for policy reform to automate more of the home valuation process and otherwise minimize bias. Some in the appraisal industry, meanwhile, contend that the process is inherently subjective and driven by extreme pressure to increase home values, opening appraisers to unfair personal liability when homeowners disagree with the results.

    In the case of Austin and Tate-Austin, the large appraisal discrepancy illustrates how even Bay Area residents able to purchase a home in one of the nation’s most expensive real estate markets can be shut out of some of the massive wealth generated by increasing property values.

    The Austin family bought the home in late 2016 for $550,000, according to the lawsuit, and Austin said they spent around $400,000 expanding the footprint, renovating the interior and adding features like an outdoor deck and an in-law unit with bay views. With the higher second appraisal designed to take race out of the equation, the home is now worth nearly triple what they paid five years ago.

    “There are definitely things about this complaint that are uniquely strong,” said the couple’s attorney, Julia Howard-Gibbon of Fair Housing Advocates of Northern California. “They erased themselves from the home, essentially.”

    Though similar cases with extreme differences in appraisal values have also surfaced in Oakland, Stockton and other California cities with a large Black population, the new lawsuit revolves around the North Bay’s unique racial dynamics.

    Austin knows firsthand that Marin City, an unincorporated area wedged between affluent Sausalito and Mill Valley, grew out of the pre-World War II migration of tens of thousands of Black workers seeking employment around the Sausalito shipyard. His own grandparents lived and worked there. Though they saved money to move to other areas of Marin County, Austin said in his October testimony that they were unable to buy property elsewhere because of exclusionary practices like discriminatory bank lending and racial covenants.

    The fact that his family encountered what seemed like a new version of the same old problem more than a half-century later, he said at the October meeting, made him feel ill.

    “My stomach hurt, my head hurt, just because of what we went through,” Austin said. “I don’t wish that on anybody.”

    Attorneys for the couple argue in the new lawsuit that “Marin City has a long history of undervaluation based on stereotypes, redlining, discriminatory appraisal standards, and actual or perceived racial demographics.” By focusing the first appraisal only on the small number of homes sold in the immediate Marin City area, Howard-Gibbon said the appraiser “built an invisible barrier” around the home by comparing it only to other sale prices in a long-marginalized area — a result she called “recycled discrimination.”

    The plaintiffs are seeking a jury trial, financial damages and a court order directing the appraisers to take action to ensure the issues in the complaint are not repeated.

    Austin said at the October meeting that he is also focused on ongoing issues like recent desegregation orders issued for Marin County schools. He still can’t help but notice that neighbors’ homes on smaller lots have already crept up to values around $1.6 or $1.7 million.

    “Yes, I do want to see a change,” Austin said. “I don’t want to see my children have to deal with this.”
    Waiting for Druff to explain away how this is a nothingburger.

    It’s a nothing burger because appraisals mean jack shit. Up here they only matter for property tax calculation, in which case a lighter appraisal benefits the homeowner.


    Also LOL at reparations task force.

     
    Comments
      
      The Boz:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Chaps' 2017-18 NFL $$ Thread

  7. #7
    Canadrunk limitles's Avatar
    Reputation
    1653
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    In Todd's head
    Posts
    17,639
    Blog Entries
    1
    Load Metric
    65668798
    Quote Originally Posted by DJ_Chaps View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MumblesBadly View Post
    A Black couple ‘erased themselves’ from their home to see if the appraised value would go up. It did - by nearly $500,000

    https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/...r-16672840.php



    Waiting for Druff to explain away how this is a nothingburger.

    It’s a nothing burger because appraisals mean jack shit. Up here they only matter for property tax calculation, in which case a lighter appraisal benefits the homeowner.


    Also LOL at reparations task force.
    buy an avatar freak

  8. #8
    100% Organic MumblesBadly's Avatar
    Reputation
    94
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    In the many threads of this forum
    Posts
    9,408
    Load Metric
    65668798
    Quote Originally Posted by DJ_Chaps View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MumblesBadly View Post
    A Black couple ‘erased themselves’ from their home to see if the appraised value would go up. It did - by nearly $500,000

    https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/...r-16672840.php



    Waiting for Druff to explain away how this is a nothingburger.

    It’s a nothing burger because appraisals mean jack shit. Up here they only matter for property tax calculation, in which case a lighter appraisal benefits the homeowner.


    Also LOL at reparations task force.
    LOL! You obviously forgot how Trump repeatedly overvalued his properties when using them as prospective collateral when applying for loans on them.

    Also, LOL that Druff & Friends dismiss the issue raised by this article by claiming that it only features an anecdote raised by this reporting. Or is it normal for conservotards to just ignore the parts of an news article that contradicts such a claim?

     
    Comments
      
      dwai: n-word lover
    _____________________________________________
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I actually hope this [second impeachment] succeeds, because I want Trump put down politically like a sick, 14-year-old dog. ... I don't want him complicating the 2024 primary season. I just want him done.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Were Republicans cowardly or unethical not to go along with [convicting Trump in the second impeachment Senate trial]? No. The smart move was to reject it.

  9. #9
    Platinum Jayjami's Avatar
    Reputation
    879
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    South Lake Tahoe
    Posts
    3,164
    Load Metric
    65668798
    Low appraisal for tax purposes. High appraisal when using the property as collateral. It is a total nothingburger.

  10. #10
    Gold
    Reputation
    367
    Join Date
    Apr 2021
    Posts
    1,651
    Load Metric
    65668798
    Quote Originally Posted by MumblesBadly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DJ_Chaps View Post


    It’s a nothing burger because appraisals mean jack shit. Up here they only matter for property tax calculation, in which case a lighter appraisal benefits the homeowner.


    Also LOL at reparations task force.
    LOL! You obviously forgot how Trump repeatedly overvalued his properties when using them as prospective collateral when applying for loans on them.

    Also, LOL that Druff & Friends dismiss the issue raised by this article by claiming that it only features an anecdote raised by this reporting. Or is it normal for conservotards to just ignore the parts of an news article that contradicts such a claim?
    Maybe you're right, Mumbles that this type of discrimination is more widespread than any of us want to believe. I'm glad you don't think this is right and that you wouldn't do such a thing or support anyone who did. I agree with you. But I don't think this is the best or maybe not even a good example because there are so many legitimate questions left unanswered by the article. It does not provide enough information for anyone to draw an informed conclusion imo.

  11. #11
    Platinum nunbeater's Avatar
    Reputation
    522
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    2,692
    Load Metric
    65668798
    Quote Originally Posted by MumblesBadly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DJ_Chaps View Post


    It’s a nothing burger because appraisals mean jack shit. Up here they only matter for property tax calculation, in which case a lighter appraisal benefits the homeowner.


    Also LOL at reparations task force.
    LOL! You obviously forgot how Trump repeatedly overvalued his properties when using them as prospective collateral when applying for loans on them.

    Also, LOL that Druff & Friends dismiss the issue raised by this article by claiming that it only features an anecdote raised by this reporting. Or is it normal for conservotards to just ignore the parts of an news article that contradicts such a claim?
    lol conservatives don't even care about Trump's little property loan fraud scheme, they just say he's a smart businessman

     
    Comments
      
      MumblesBadly: But “Hillary is a crook”!

  12. #12
    Nova Scotia's #1 Party Rocker!!!!11 DJ_Chaps's Avatar
    Reputation
    939
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Halifax
    Posts
    6,604
    Load Metric
    65668798
    Quote Originally Posted by limitles View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DJ_Chaps View Post


    It’s a nothing burger because appraisals mean jack shit. Up here they only matter for property tax calculation, in which case a lighter appraisal benefits the homeowner.


    Also LOL at reparations task force.
    buy an avatar freak

    Will you sell me your avatar as an NFT, Leslie?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Chaps' 2017-18 NFL $$ Thread

  13. #13
    Nova Scotia's #1 Party Rocker!!!!11 DJ_Chaps's Avatar
    Reputation
    939
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Halifax
    Posts
    6,604
    Load Metric
    65668798
    Quote Originally Posted by MumblesBadly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DJ_Chaps View Post


    It’s a nothing burger because appraisals mean jack shit. Up here they only matter for property tax calculation, in which case a lighter appraisal benefits the homeowner.


    Also LOL at reparations task force.
    LOL! You obviously forgot how Trump repeatedly overvalued his properties when using them as prospective collateral when applying for loans on them.

    Also, LOL that Druff & Friends dismiss the issue raised by this article by claiming that it only features an anecdote raised by this reporting. Or is it normal for conservotards to just ignore the parts of an news article that contradicts such a claim?
    Odd. The post I quoted had nothing to do with Trump….my post had nothing to do with Trump, yet you found a way to force him in. This is TDS in its sincerest form. Wow.

     
    Comments
      
      dwai:
      
      splitthis: It’s an illness
      
      MumblesBadly: Trump’s own use of property appraisals, albeit his own, in order to get bank loans proves your point wrong, you dumbass!
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Chaps' 2017-18 NFL $$ Thread

  14. #14
    PFA Radio Co-Host
    Reputation
    88
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    311
    Load Metric
    65668798
    The appraiser complimented the views of the San Francisco Bay, and he was sure to point out all the improvements, Austin recalled at an Oct. 13 meeting of a state reparations task force. So he and his wife Tenisha Tate-Austin were shocked when the appraisal valued their home at $995,000 — nearly half-a-million dollars less than another appraisal 10 months earlier.

    The couple, who is Black, got a second opinion last February. This time, they asked a white friend named Jan to sit at the kitchen island and pretend to be the homeowner. They also “white-washed” their home by hiding art and family photos. That appraiser said their house was worth $1,482,500.
    I bolded the part that I found interesting. So it was appraised for $1.4m 10 months earlier, prior to them "white-washing" the house, and presumably with them being in the house as normal.

    That doesn't appear to go along with the racism narrative... or at least it makes the middle $995k estimate an aberration, even if there was some kind of racism involved in it.

  15. #15
    Diamond Pro Zap_the_Fractions_Giraffe's Avatar
    Reputation
    1416
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    3,783
    Load Metric
    65668798
    mumbles you make enough money to buy a neighborhood in the D and rent exclusively to POC's

  16. #16
    Canadrunk limitles's Avatar
    Reputation
    1653
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    In Todd's head
    Posts
    17,639
    Blog Entries
    1
    Load Metric
    65668798
    Quote Originally Posted by DJ_Chaps View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by limitles View Post

    buy an avatar freak


    Will you sell me your avatar as an NFT, Leslie?
    Nope, I'm well past your the age of nine.
    Your problems with hair are well documented and
    now we get the farmers hat. What's going on?
    Last edited by limitles; 12-06-2021 at 01:21 AM.

  17. #17
    All Sorts of Sports gut's Avatar
    Reputation
    723
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    4,561
    Load Metric
    65668798
    Quote Originally Posted by limitles View Post

    Nope, I'm well past your the age of nine.
    Sounds right.

  18. #18
    Gold Cerveza Fria's Avatar
    Reputation
    448
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    South Florida
    Posts
    1,793
    Load Metric
    65668798
    Quote Originally Posted by limitles View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DJ_Chaps View Post



    Will you sell me your avatar as an NFT, Leslie?
    Nope, I'm well past your the age of nine.
    9 year olds can buy booze in Canada?

  19. #19
    Canadrunk limitles's Avatar
    Reputation
    1653
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    In Todd's head
    Posts
    17,639
    Blog Entries
    1
    Load Metric
    65668798
    Quote Originally Posted by Cerveza Fria View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by limitles View Post

    Nope, I'm well past your the age of nine.
    9 year olds can buy booze in Canada?
    That's right, one aisle over from the gun and ammo aisle

  20. #20
    Gold
    Reputation
    135
    Join Date
    Jul 2021
    Posts
    1,075
    Load Metric
    65668798
    OP it's time to face reality

    This video says the same thing as above, just differently.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Real Estate and Housing Crisis
    By splitthis in forum Flying Stupidity
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 08-10-2021, 01:11 AM
  2. interesting housing situation
    By SetofKs in forum Flying Stupidity
    Replies: 48
    Last Post: 11-06-2017, 11:26 PM
  3. WSOP Housing Thread
    By matos in forum 2016 World Series of Poker
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-22-2016, 04:01 AM
  4. Donald Sterling doesn't like minorities very much
    By Dan Druff in forum Flying Stupidity
    Replies: 181
    Last Post: 04-16-2015, 06:28 AM
  5. UGH FEMALE DRIVERS, AMIRITE?
    By sonatine in forum Flying Stupidity
    Replies: 59
    Last Post: 02-17-2015, 08:46 PM