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Thread: Is it really white privilege? For the second time, a young white rapist got probation despite conviction

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    Is it really white privilege? For the second time, a young white rapist got probation despite conviction

    Remember the infamous Brock Turner case, where Judge Aaron Persky sentenced Turner to just probation, despite being convicted of rape? At the time, Persky had said that Turner's life would be ruined by prison, and had felt that Turner could better rehabilitate and live a normal life without spending time in prison. The flaw in that thinking, of course, is that the effect of prison on the convicted sexual predator shouldn't be a concern. Once you've committed a serious crime, any negative effect on your life is your own fault. (It would be much different, of course, if Turner had only been convicted of something like petty theft, and the judge went easy on him.)

    Persky was eventually recalled.

    At the time, there was a lot of screaming about "white privilege" and "male privilege", especially by feminists. They were correct to be angry about the inappropriate sentence, but they blamed it on the wrong factor.

    Persky was a lifelong Democrat. His decision about Turner wasn't informed by whiteness, but rather a general bleeding heart leniency toward convicted violent criminals. It also had to do with Perky's young life trajectory being similar to that of Turner -- both being frat boy college athletes -- and he saw his young self in Turner (minus the rape). However, it was the general thought process about crime-and-punishment which needed the focus. Persky saw the penal system as strictly rehabilitative, not punitive. Thus, from that view, his only concern was for Turner to reform and live a normal life, rather than to give him the appropraite punishment for rapiing. That view of the penal system is one strictly informed by left-wing politics, thus it was no surprise to learn that Persky was a Democrat.


    Now we have a very similar case.

    Chirstopher Belter, who is presently 20 years old, was convicted of raping four teenage girls. These occurred in 2017-18, and he was 16-17 at the time. There's no statutory rape or abuse of a minor element here, since he was a minor himself, and was the same age as the victims. However, he committed forcible rape against four different girls he knew, and that obviously justifies substantial prison time, even given the age he was when he committed the crimes.

    Belter was convicted. Unfortunately, judge Matthew Murphy, who is almost 70 and about to be force-retired anyway, gave him probation. Murphy said to Belter, "I agonized. I'm not ashamed that to say that I actually prayed over what is the appropriate sentence in this case because there was great pain. There was great harm. There were multiple crimes committed in the case. It seems to me that a sentence that involves incarceration or partial incarceration isn't appropriate, so I am going to sentence you to probation."

    Murphy, like Persky, is another lifelong Democrat. Again, he took a bleeding heart concern for the criminal's welfare, and decided it "wasn't appropriate" to put this man in prison for what he did. Like the Turner case, this was again a miscarriage of justice, and feminists have the right to be pissed.



    Right now we are seeing a conflation between the Rittenhouse and Belter cases, as "evidence" that young, white males get all kinds of privilege in criminal court, which is not afforded to young black or Hispanic males.

    Not only are these two cases completely different from one another, but "white privilege" has nothing to do with either. The Rittenhouse case was simply a bad criminal prosecution, where there was clearly reasonable doubt about whether he committed a crime by shooting those three men, all of whom were attacking him. This Belter case involved someone who was clearly guilty, convicted, and then given a nonsensical probationary sentence by a bleeding heart judge.

    If you want to make a feminist's head explode, ask them what type of sentence they think is appropraite for a rapist. Usually they will tell you they want a harsh sentence of some sort. Then ask them, "And which political party tends to support long sentences for all violent criminals and sexual predators, and which one tends to push for more leniency in sentencing?" When you point out that Republicans overwhelmingly support tougher criminal sentencing, then you can ask them why they don't vote Republican, if they want to see this changed. They never have a good answer for this.


    It's not white privilege. It's criminal privilege, which has been something long granted by the Democrats -- from lawmakers to judges. Notice that looting and rioting tends to almost exclusively take place in Democrat-run cities. Why do you think that is?

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    Its hard to know what was going through the judges mind to do this but it was not right and will definitely lead to many people questioning whether or not it was because he was a white kid from a wealthy family. I'm just not aware of a black kid catching the same break for raping a bunch of girls. This case is not going to help racial discourse.

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    despite making up only 13% of the population, black people commit 51% of the violent crime in this country

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    Brock Turner’s parents were wealthy. The judge in that case probably was bribed in some way.

    Wondering whether this quaduple-rapist’s parents are also well-healed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Remember the infamous Brock Turner case, where Judge Aaron Persky sentenced Turner to just probation, despite being convicted of rape? At the time, Persky had said that Turner's life would be ruined by prison, and had felt that Turner could better rehabilitate and live a normal life without spending time in prison. The flaw in that thinking, of course, is that the effect of prison on the convicted sexual predator shouldn't be a concern. Once you've committed a serious crime, any negative effect on your life is your own fault. (It would be much different, of course, if Turner had only been convicted of something like petty theft, and the judge went easy on him.)

    Persky was eventually recalled.

    At the time, there was a lot of screaming about "white privilege" and "male privilege", especially by feminists. They were correct to be angry about the inappropriate sentence, but they blamed it on the wrong factor.

    Persky was a lifelong Democrat. His decision about Turner wasn't informed by whiteness, but rather a general bleeding heart leniency toward convicted violent criminals. It also had to do with Perky's young life trajectory being similar to that of Turner -- both being frat boy college athletes -- and he saw his young self in Turner (minus the rape). However, it was the general thought process about crime-and-punishment which needed the focus. Persky saw the penal system as strictly rehabilitative, not punitive. Thus, from that view, his only concern was for Turner to reform and live a normal life, rather than to give him the appropraite punishment for rapiing. That view of the penal system is one strictly informed by left-wing politics, thus it was no surprise to learn that Persky was a Democrat.


    Now we have a very similar case.

    Chirstopher Belter, who is presently 20 years old, was convicted of raping four teenage girls. These occurred in 2017-18, and he was 16-17 at the time. There's no statutory rape or abuse of a minor element here, since he was a minor himself, and was the same age as the victims. However, he committed forcible rape against four different girls he knew, and that obviously justifies substantial prison time, even given the age he was when he committed the crimes.

    Belter was convicted. Unfortunately, judge Matthew Murphy, who is almost 70 and about to be force-retired anyway, gave him probation. Murphy said to Belter, "I agonized. I'm not ashamed that to say that I actually prayed over what is the appropriate sentence in this case because there was great pain. There was great harm. There were multiple crimes committed in the case. It seems to me that a sentence that involves incarceration or partial incarceration isn't appropriate, so I am going to sentence you to probation."

    Murphy, like Persky, is another lifelong Democrat. Again, he took a bleeding heart concern for the criminal's welfare, and decided it "wasn't appropriate" to put this man in prison for what he did. Like the Turner case, this was again a miscarriage of justice, and feminists have the right to be pissed.



    Right now we are seeing a conflation between the Rittenhouse and Belter cases, as "evidence" that young, white males get all kinds of privilege in criminal court, which is not afforded to young black or Hispanic males.

    Not only are these two cases completely different from one another, but "white privilege" has nothing to do with either. The Rittenhouse case was simply a bad criminal prosecution, where there was clearly reasonable doubt about whether he committed a crime by shooting those three men, all of whom were attacking him. This Belter case involved someone who was clearly guilty, convicted, and then given a nonsensical probationary sentence by a bleeding heart judge.

    If you want to make a feminist's head explode, ask them what type of sentence they think is appropraite for a rapist. Usually they will tell you they want a harsh sentence of some sort. Then ask them, "And which political party tends to support long sentences for all violent criminals and sexual predators, and which one tends to push for more leniency in sentencing?" When you point out that Republicans overwhelmingly support tougher criminal sentencing, then you can ask them why they don't vote Republican, if they want to see this changed. They never have a good answer for this.


    It's not white privilege. It's criminal privilege, which has been something long granted by the Democrats -- from lawmakers to judges. Notice that looting and rioting tends to almost exclusively take place in Democrat-run cities. Why do you think that is?
    I mean, I don’t think I’ve typed the word white privilege on this site unless to mock it, but you define it better than the people claiming it. I mean this sentence you wrote is what I think of as white privilege.


    It also had to do with Perky's young life trajectory being similar to that of Turner -- both being frat boy college athletes -- and he saw his young self in Turner (minus the rape).
    If that isn’t white privilege, then I don’t know what is?

    I mean I don’t care, I’m white, so it works for me, but that’s entirely the definition of white privilege. It’s nepotism and other things, but it isn’t like someone can’t be a Democrat and also shown extreme favoritism towards white people.

    It isn’t like a democratic judge can’t be racist by the academic definition. I know because I certainly am. I prefer the company of other white people like myself.

    If I’m hiring for some job with a hundred applicants and Ben is one of them, I’m going to hire him if he’s even close.

    I like his dad.

    I assume he’ll be a smart kid. If I’m a judge, I’m going to go easier on friends kids or some kid who reminds me of myself. I’m a human before I’m a political affiliation. That shit is inherent in all of us. It’s less racism and more nepotism, but it’s certainly a privilege to be on the receiving end of it when it’s a break.

    The white privilege with someone like Rittenhouse isn’t in the verdict.

    It’s that he was walking around looking 16 and like he maybe has had to shave twice in his life with a really potent weapon. Cops were interacting with him on multiple occasions on the video. None said, “hey kid, we really appreciate the support, but how old are you? Can we see some paperwork on that gun?”

    No black child is walking around with an AR-15 and interacting with cops a bunch and not getting that question. Instead, the cops were acting like cocktail waitresses asking them if they need a drink.

    So I don’t give a single fuck about the protestors. I view marching around because some black dude got shot who wasn’t a good dude as total weakness and idiocy and pathetic when there hasn’t even been any miscarriage of justice yet.

    Cops make a thousand stops and serve warrants all day. Some are going to screw up. They aren’t perfect. You don’t riot and protest and burn shit down because you assume a miscarriage of justice. If a guy is up on violent charges and has a history of having weapons, you’re going to get a trigger happy cop occasionally if the dude doesn’t comply and makes a move you get skittish about. You have to know that as a dude with a history of having guns illegally.

    I view those protestors and rioters as just as dumb as the people at Trump rallies. You’re out there marching around for some guy who probably hates you and wouldn’t stop to piss on you if you were on fire. This isn’t Emmitt Till.

    Jacob Blake had sexual assault charges pending and previous gun charges. He isn’t worth your time and he wasn’t your buddy or some martyr. If a cop shot him too quick, he’ll get several million and it sucks for him, as I think he’s paralyzed, but you need to be extra cautious if you have a criminal history.

    Marching around for him is as dumb as thinking some NYC trust fund baby who has been a lifelong scumbag flying around in helicopters is out for the little man despite making fun of you his whole life.

    Rittenhouse has every right to defend himself, and no one had a right to attack him, but i find it no coincidence that the kid who isn’t mentally or physically mature enough to be out there is involved in the only three deaths that occurred over a week of rioting. All the other grown up militia dudes were smart enough to not get themselves in a spot like that to be singled out by some scumbags.

    So he isn’t some white power kid that I know of, and he killed 3 white dudes, but it isn’t as simple as was the verdict a racist one.

    He probably never gets in that spot if he’s a black kid. The cops aren’t encouraging him. It’s all team sports and he’s the right color.


    No one asked him what he was doing there for the same reason that when I end up in Walmart or Costco to buy some bulk item and they’re checking everyone’s receipts in some long line as they leave, they’re waving me through and smiling. I don’t even get it out any more. I’m white. It’s a good gig if you can get it.

     
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwai View Post
    despite making up only 13% of the population, black people commit 51% of the violent crime in this country
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    I think most people, especially liberals, completely underestimate how many people are walking the streets right now after committing extremely serious offenses who never spent any serious time in the inside of a jail cell.

    Then every once in a while the media sees a case that fits their preferred narrative (most of the time an anti white, anti male narrative) and they decide to cover it from this angle and pretend it is a novelty. Ironically, BCR should know all of this, because he is very knowledgeable about sports and can probably name 100 famous black athletes who have committed some pretty heinous shit including rape who never spent a day in jail (Derrick Rose, Kobe Bryant, Tyreek Hill, Kareem Hunt, Lawrence Taylor, Marvin Harrison, Ray Lewis just off the top of my head). I know not all of those guys were found guilty in court, but a lot of them probably should have been, but they had things taken care of so it never got to that point, and it certainly wasn't due to white privilege.

    People getting off light for committing serious crimes is actually the norm, especially in Democratic controlled areas. And the media pretending it is an exception and the result of "white privliege" when they see a juicy narrative they can latch on to is par for the course dishonesty.

    And I actually dont disagree with this general philosophy. Many people who have bad judgment and do horrible things when they are young will rehabilitate themselves and become productive members of society without ever having to go to prison (where it is much more likely they will turn down a dark path and they will never rehabilitate).

    What I think progressives do a very poor job of is differentiating between people who can and will rehabilitate, and people who won't; so that letting them off over and over and over and over is doing everyone a disservice.
    Last edited by Kalam; 11-22-2021 at 06:44 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalam View Post
    I think most people, especially liberals, completely underestimate how many people are walking the streets right now after committing extremely serious offenses who never spent any serious time in the inside of a jail cell.

    Then every once in a while the media sees a case that fits their preferred narrative (most of the time an anti white, anti male narrative) and they decide to cover it from this angle and pretend it is a novelty. Ironically, BCR should know all of this, because he is very knowledgeable about sports and can probably name 100 famous black athletes who have committed some pretty heinous shit including rape who never spent a day in jail (Derrick Rose, Kobe Bryant, Tyreek Hill, Kareem Hunt, Lawrence Taylor, Marvin Harrison, Ray Lewis just off the top of my head). I know not all of those guys were found guilty in court, but a lot of them probably should have been, but they had things taken care of so it never got to that point, and it certainly wasn't due to white privilege.

    People getting off light for committing serious crimes is actually the norm, especially in Democratic controlled areas. And the media pretending it is an exception and the result of "white privliege" when they see a juicy narrative they can latch on to is par for the course dishonesty.

    And I actually dont disagree with this general philosophy. Many people who have bad judgment and do horrible things when they are young will rehabilitate themselves and become productive members of society without ever having to go to prison (where it is much more likely they will turn down a dark path and they will never rehabilitate).

    What I think progressives do a very poor job of is differentiating between people who can and will rehabilitate, and people who won't; so that letting them off over and over and over and over is doing everyone a disservice.
    Anecdotal crap. What are you're credentials?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MumblesBadly View Post
    Brock Turner’s parents were wealthy. The judge in that case probably was bribed in some way.

    Wondering whether this quaduple-rapist’s parents are also well-healed.
    Turners parents weren’t wealthy. Strictly middle class and he was on a scholarship.

    The kid with the four rapes, that case looks like a straight bribe with a judge on his way out. Parents are very wealthy. Mom also a lawyer, so probably knows judge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MumblesBadly View Post
    Brock Turner’s parents were wealthy. The judge in that case probably was bribed in some way.

    Wondering whether this quaduple-rapist’s parents are also well-healed.
    Turners parents weren’t wealthy. Strictly middle class and he was on a scholarship.

    The kid with the four rapes, that case looks like a straight bribe with a judge on his way out. Parents are very wealthy. Mom also a lawyer, so probably knows judge.
    I didn't even know this, because like Mumbles I only casually followed the story when it came out, and the MSM purposefully misportrayed the incident to fit their preferred narrative, so that a casual follower would assume he was wealthy.

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    you can't blame everything on white privilege, but to suggest it played no part in this case is an absolute joke.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrTickle View Post
    you can't blame everything on white privilege, but to suggest it played no part in this case is an absolute joke.
    Actually, all else being equal I think we have reached the point where a black person is more likely to be handed a lenient sentence because of their race. I know you aren't American and the American focused media you consume doesn't talk about this at all because it doesn't fit the narrative, but you should really check out the Derrick Rose case.

    Black athlete who ran a train on his GF with his friends while she was unconscious from intoxication, and admitted it in court and the judge just hand waived it away, and the MSM and society at large just kind of ignored it and moved on. 0.0% chance a white accused (even a famous athlete) gets off this easy, legally or socially. And this isn't even an exception, it is the rule.

    There really is a sizable population of the American populace walking the streets (proportionally more black than white) that has a giant laundry list of serious crimes spanning decades and the establishment hand waives it away and they never do much time. The progressive MSM narrative is that the American population is treated too harsh by the justice system. But the truth is the American population is just much more criminal and violent than European counterparts, and there is a strong argument we aren't harsh enough dealing with career criminals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalam View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrTickle View Post
    you can't blame everything on white privilege, but to suggest it played no part in this case is an absolute joke.
    Actually, all else being equal I think we have reached the point where a black person is more likely to be handed a lenient sentence because of their race. I know you aren't American and the American focused media you consume doesn't talk about this at all because it doesn't fit the narrative, but you should really check out the Derrick Rose case.

    Black athlete who ran a train on his GF with his friends while she was unconscious from intoxication, and admitted it in court and the judge just hand waived it away, and the MSM and society at large just kind of ignored it and moved on. 0.0% chance a white accused (even a famous athlete) gets off this easy, legally or socially. And this isn't even an exception, it is the rule.

    There really is a sizable population of the American populace walking the streets (proportionally more black than white) that has a giant laundry list of serious crimes spanning decades and the establishment hand waives it away and they never do much time. The progressive MSM narrative is that the American population is treated too harsh by the justice system. But the truth is the American population is just much more criminal and violent than European counterparts, and there is a strong argument we aren't harsh enough dealing with career criminals.
    Dude, you’re choosing multi-millionaire black dudes who were the most important employee of billionaires. Comparing any of them to college kids who got off on rape because the judge took a liking to them or some high school dropout isn’t even apples to oranges. It’s apples to car tires.

    Every criminal situation comes down to how good is your lawyer, and do you know anyone important who can help you?

    White people are going to fare better simply because they have more money and their parents are more likely to know someone important. A white kid is more likely to remind a judge of himself as there are infinitely more white judges. You’ll find more black kids who are walking around with a criminal record because they commit more crimes and some times fall through cracks because of overcrowding. There are certainly times you’d rather be black, see OJ. But he’s also rich.

    I’ll grant you it’s largely not about race any more, and race is only relevant insofar as they’re more affluent, and likely to be connected to seats of power. It’s not about the color of their skin. If you’re a rich Hispanic kid, you’ll be fine also. Or a rich black kid.

    You’re just way more likely to have those connections if you’re white, or Jewish, or second generation Asian person.

    The idea that it’s better to be black or they generally fare better though is silliness. There are isolated spots where you’re better to be black, but on average, you’re going to have a worse outcome because your lawyer sucks. Your outcome will generally be correlated to your bank account.

     
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      country978: pretty sure bcr is talking cold hard facts

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    Quote Originally Posted by dwai View Post
    despite making up only 13% of the population, black people commit 51% of the violent crime in this country
    Are you sure 13 percent seemes low I thought more like 45 percent

     
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      shoeshine box: 13% it is frank.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalam View Post

    Actually, all else being equal I think we have reached the point where a black person is more likely to be handed a lenient sentence because of their race. I know you aren't American and the American focused media you consume doesn't talk about this at all because it doesn't fit the narrative, but you should really check out the Derrick Rose case.

    Black athlete who ran a train on his GF with his friends while she was unconscious from intoxication, and admitted it in court and the judge just hand waived it away, and the MSM and society at large just kind of ignored it and moved on. 0.0% chance a white accused (even a famous athlete) gets off this easy, legally or socially. And this isn't even an exception, it is the rule.

    There really is a sizable population of the American populace walking the streets (proportionally more black than white) that has a giant laundry list of serious crimes spanning decades and the establishment hand waives it away and they never do much time. The progressive MSM narrative is that the American population is treated too harsh by the justice system. But the truth is the American population is just much more criminal and violent than European counterparts, and there is a strong argument we aren't harsh enough dealing with career criminals.
    Dude, you’re choosing multi-millionaire black dudes who were the most important employee of billionaires. Comparing any of them to college kids who got off on rape because the judge took a liking to them or some high school dropout isn’t even apples to oranges. It’s apples to car tires.

    Every criminal situation comes down to how good is your lawyer, and do you know anyone important who can help you?

    White people are going to fare better simply because they have more money and their parents are more likely to know someone important. A white kid is more likely to remind a judge of himself as there are infinitely more white judges. You’ll find more black kids who are walking around with a criminal record because they commit more crimes and some times fall through cracks because of overcrowding. There are certainly times you’d rather be black, see OJ. But he’s also rich.

    I’ll grant you it’s largely not about race any more, and race is only relevant insofar as they’re more affluent, and likely to be connected to seats of power. It’s not about the color of their skin. If you’re a rich Hispanic kid, you’ll be fine also. Or a rich black kid.

    You’re just way more likely to have those connections if you’re white, or Jewish, or second generation Asian person.

    The idea that it’s better to be black or they generally fare better though is silliness. There are isolated spots where you’re better to be black, but on average, you’re going to have a worse outcome because your lawyer sucks. Your outcome will generally be correlated to your bank account.
    I think you are stuck in the past and underestimate in big blue cities where most of the crime and criminals are how much progressive politics has changed all of this in the last couple decades. In the big blue cities a giant % of the judges, lawyers, DAs, etc are black, and the ones that aren’t are super liberal. And being poor and black and having a long history of prior offenses isn’t the guarantee of a bad sentence it would have been 20 years ago. And in many cases it is the exact opposite. Being poor and black you are more likely to get a woke DA or judge who will treat you lightly for social justice reasons.

    And that is one of the main reasons why progressive politics are destabilizing blue cities and are starting to get a backlash.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalam View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post

    Dude, you’re choosing multi-millionaire black dudes who were the most important employee of billionaires. Comparing any of them to college kids who got off on rape because the judge took a liking to them or some high school dropout isn’t even apples to oranges. It’s apples to car tires.

    Every criminal situation comes down to how good is your lawyer, and do you know anyone important who can help you?

    White people are going to fare better simply because they have more money and their parents are more likely to know someone important. A white kid is more likely to remind a judge of himself as there are infinitely more white judges. You’ll find more black kids who are walking around with a criminal record because they commit more crimes and some times fall through cracks because of overcrowding. There are certainly times you’d rather be black, see OJ. But he’s also rich.

    I’ll grant you it’s largely not about race any more, and race is only relevant insofar as they’re more affluent, and likely to be connected to seats of power. It’s not about the color of their skin. If you’re a rich Hispanic kid, you’ll be fine also. Or a rich black kid.

    You’re just way more likely to have those connections if you’re white, or Jewish, or second generation Asian person.

    The idea that it’s better to be black or they generally fare better though is silliness. There are isolated spots where you’re better to be black, but on average, you’re going to have a worse outcome because your lawyer sucks. Your outcome will generally be correlated to your bank account.
    I think you are stuck in the past and underestimate in big blue cities where most of the crime and criminals are how much progressive politics has changed all of this in the last couple decades. In the big blue cities a giant % of the judges, lawyers, DAs, etc are black, and the ones that aren’t are super liberal. And being poor and black and having a long history of prior offenses isn’t the guarantee of a bad sentence it would have been 20 years ago. And in many cases it is the exact opposite. Being poor and black you are more likely to get a woke DA or judge who will treat you lightly for social justice reasons.

    And that is one of the main reasons why progressive politics are destabilizing blue cities and are starting to get a backlash.
    I don’t think I’m stuck in the past. I think you consume too much right wing gibberish as every post is about the “media narrative” or something similar.

    Shoplifting in San Francisco or professional athletes getting off is a minuscule percentage of the overall crime in the country and doesn’t reflect the outcome for the average person.

    I feel confident I’d like my chances better as a middle-aged white guy who can ask who is the best lawyer in any town with the best connections and be able to pay him over some poor black dude hoping to catch a woke judge with his public defender. I’m not saying that’s white privilege. There’s just more white people in a position to ask that question and retain that guy.

    We have lawyers in California here. If they say I’d be better to be broke and black, I’ll reevaluate my opinion then.

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    bro i'm on probo for rape and they drug test me once a month so I can only smoke weed one week a month. what drug should i do after those weeks that will get out of my system. also, are they able to tell from you pee whether or not you've been raping chicks and if so how long can they tell

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