Druff's strawman of the month/year/decade.

[Sanlmar]

@country

I don’t have to play for the Patriots to have an opinion about their game.

I find it interesting to see how we are perceived from afar. Would be amazing to hear from a Russian poker player or a Belarus bot.

I don’t have to agree but it’s useful to listen.

[Sanlmar]

I certainly criticize both sides. This is where I’m at…. and I am alone … conservatism is dead… I am a realist





George Will

[country978]

@country

I don’t have to play for the Patriots to have an opinion about their game.

I find it interesting to see how we are perceived from afar. Would be amazing to hear from a Russian poker player or a Belarus bot.

I don’t have to agree but it’s useful to listen.

oh i definitely find it interesting and want to hear about it too I just think there is zero chance he's not going to take shit for it every single time from one of us.

[Dan Druff]

Oh that super-obvious case you don't feel like talking about in the thread you made about him? Do i need to wait 5 days again, before you proudly declare victory because you don't understand context or law?

You're going to have to list some random Democrats from the news. Most of your threads about buzz word of the season here are standard outrage crap. Like i said before, i don't follow random news about Democrats or Republicans for that matter.

Am i to understand you collect points here for not supporting Marjorie Taylor Green, but every time i don't reply to a random thread about a Democrat i get zilch/nada? You get points for every lukewarm "objection" to Trump even though you voted for the guy? This sounds like a fun game.

You do understand that to the "right" of your centrist party is pretty much slightly to the left of far right in Europe? Your right wing news don't much care about unethical from any party. You legalized corruption a decade ago. I don't think it was even illegal to profit from early internal Covid-19 memos/meetings. You can have those if any of them were Democrats. Or does it not count if it was bipartisan cooperation? Or does it fall under criticizing them from the left?

"Don't feel like talking about it?" I've gone back and forth with you for several pages, and all you keep saying is that it's "obvious" that the guy meant something totally different than what he said in plain English. How many pages do I have to keep debating with you before you give me credit for not avoiding the topic?

I don't know why you keep going on about Europe. I brought up your unwillingness to criticize any US Democratic figure either in the news (like Ziegler) or in major politics, and you respond by rambling about Europe. I don't get it. I guess you have no real answer, because you know that you find it impossible to ever agree with any criticism of a Democrat, unless it's from the left.

Yea you could be right that i don't have any posts criticizing Democrats from whatever your definition of right is this year.

I also don't have any threads attacking Republicans from any direction.

I can't remember a single thread you've ever made attacking Republicans from the left.

Can't quite see how Bill Clinton bombing a foreign country as distraction from impeachment/press doesn't qualify as unethical? Is that a right wing thing? Or just America thing? 500 civilians not quite enough? You just enjoy wasting tax payers money?

I don't "attack Republicans from the left", but I have criticized Republicans for stupid things they've said and done, and not from a farther-right perspective.

I've even said countless times in the COVID thread that I haven't liked how either side has handled COVID, and have put out my specific criticisms of Trump and the right. This has resulted in guys like dwai insulting me.

I can list other areas where I've criticized Republicans, or specific Republican politicians, if you so desire. I'm not married to defending every single Republican in the news. Anyone who does that shit is a simpleton.

We don't see you doing the same regarding anything from Democrats, unelss it's from farther left. Your Bill Clinton example is exactly what I mean. Tons of people from the left were going after Clinton for his wag-the-dog bombing. Yes, some from the right were also doing so (because it gave them an opportunity to bash him), but you're not exactly breaking ranks with fellow lefties by saying Clinton was doing an unjustified bombing, especially over 20 years later.

Again:

Can you point to a single MODERN US Democrat (not someone from the '90s) you have criticized from any point other than farther left?

[Walter Sobchak]

So brother Dangiel has once again retorted to weak sauce logical fallacies that work with mouth breathers.

Namely that Europe gives a fuck about US partisan faggotry. For the most part we don't. We care when that spills over and European members here at times point out retarded shit that's being spewed at the community we've been a part of for 15+ years.

Don't worry there's plenty of tards in Europe that gobble all the same global propaganda Druff is so proud to be a part of. Yay our team.

So a random straw that Druff grasped at a recent discussion was that i only defend things because Democrat. Nothing to do with Druff mostly cheering Team Retard talking points that i can very easily follow to the source. It literally takes a minute, there's nothing sophisticated about the right wing retardosphere. It's like it was designed for very simple people and true believers.

I was asked about a single thing that Democrats were for, that i opposed.

Well once upon a time a prince got his dick sucked and as a distraction to his impeachment he decided to bomb Europe. That was in 1999. 38k combat missions. No authorization from UN and against international law. Just 500 civilians killed by modest estimates.

We didn't much care about the prince's political affiliation. After the dust had settled we had to take care of the it. One of these things called diplomacy. A Finnish-Russian mediation team did stuff. Finnish side was there because we usually are, something about impartiality. The Russians because they still had/have clout in Eastern-Europe. If it helps, we like them even less than we like Americans. In this case Russians, I'd have to think more where we position Eastern-Europeans in general. Personally i draw the line to leadership and direct cronies from after Lenin died to Gorbachev and after Putin named himself as the czar in practice.

So no we didn't like the prince. We didn't much care about his cunty wife. The family name in general has a toxic connotation. We'd still go for her over a retarded reality-tv star. It's just because we're used to making compromises and most non toddlers could see that spilling over to our side.

We didn't much care about the retarded son of a retarded father living in the shadow of his father. It's compliment, if we consider them just retarded, compared to people profiting off human misery. The son is more likely to get a pass. Cheney got his hooks in. It's whatever.

The charismatic centrist Uncle Tom was fairly neutral by standards we're accustomed to.

The one from westerns seemed retarded before they declared he was retarded. His cunty wife seemed pretty cunty.

I don't really know where i'm going with any of this. I think i've covered every president since Druff was a toddler. The particular president i chose as the main subject was the one in charge of bombing Yugoslavia. There's at least 1 member here who served there and i have blood relatives that were on the ground. Both in UN peacekeeping whatever the fuck they're called these days. You know how US dweebs Larp in the woods with no skin in the game? We don't do that in the north. If you feel like doing something, when you're young and stupid, there's UN, Foreign Legion or mercenaries.

We're used to making compromises, but we don't forget. Something about pragmatism. I don't think there's a single war in the last 1000 years we haven't been a part of in Europe. Mostly as mercenaries tbh. We don't really care about conquering crap. What the fuck are we gonna do with more people. We have enough issues with sending everyone that feels like scrapping to somewhere else. For random reasons in Nordic countries Finns are know for knives. Within Finland where I'm from we're known for knives. It's so so if it's a deserved reputation. The older generations consider it's polite to slash instead of stabbing. Sort of teaching a lesson with less people dying off of dumb shit.

"Liberal" things from the North. It's not a thing here. We have more than two parties that matter. This part of Europe is less than 1% of population. Our far right parties have economic policies further from the left than US Democrats. No one here is deluded that rights matter when you can't afford them. That's what we think about your liberals.

Also this



Even Trump’s “shithole countries” manage to get it done somehow.

[Dan Druff]

Since we are doing the American uniqueness thing, can we talk about which countries decided to prioritize vaccine distribution based upon "racial equity" rather than age?

I'll give you a hint: Only one did.

And guess which political party supported that?



Oh, how about the vaccine messaging?

In 2021, only one first-world country was putting out messaging that you'll still have to mask after getting your vaccine, and you shouldn't be traveling. Every other first-world country put out pro-vaccine messaging explaining that you'll get your life back and can return to normal.

Again, guess which political party was behind this messaging?

We're talking about before Delta or frequent breakthrough infections, by the way.



So yeah, I guess in those areas, Europe really was superior.

[gimmick]

"Don't feel like talking about it?" I've gone back and forth with you for several pages, and all you keep saying is that it's "obvious" that the guy meant something totally different than what he said in plain English. How many pages do I have to keep debating with you before you give me credit for not avoiding the topic?

I don't know why you keep going on about Europe. I brought up your unwillingness to criticize any US Democratic figure either in the news (like Ziegler) or in major politics, and you respond by rambling about Europe. I don't get it. I guess you have no real answer, because you know that you find it impossible to ever agree with any criticism of a Democrat, unless it's from the left.

Yea you could be right that i don't have any posts criticizing Democrats from whatever your definition of right is this year.

I also don't have any threads attacking Republicans from any direction.

I can't remember a single thread you've ever made attacking Republicans from the left.

Can't quite see how Bill Clinton bombing a foreign country as distraction from impeachment/press doesn't qualify as unethical? Is that a right wing thing? Or just America thing? 500 civilians not quite enough? You just enjoy wasting tax payers money?

I don't "attack Republicans from the left", but I have criticized Republicans for stupid things they've said and done, and not from a farther-right perspective.

I've even said countless times in the COVID thread that I haven't liked how either side has handled COVID, and have put out my specific criticisms of Trump and the right. This has resulted in guys like dwai insulting me.

I can list other areas where I've criticized Republicans, or specific Republican politicians, if you so desire. I'm not married to defending every single Republican in the news. Anyone who does that shit is a simpleton.

We don't see you doing the same regarding anything from Democrats, unelss it's from farther left. Your Bill Clinton example is exactly what I mean. Tons of people from the left were going after Clinton for his wag-the-dog bombing. Yes, some from the right were also doing so (because it gave them an opportunity to bash him), but you're not exactly breaking ranks with fellow lefties by saying Clinton was doing an unjustified bombing, especially over 20 years later.

Again:

Can you point to a single MODERN US Democrat (not someone from the '90s) you have criticized from any point other than farther left?

I mention Europe because on a single axis for left to right on a scale of 1-10, we have major parties from 2-9, you have one party at 5 and another at 8. To the right of your Democrats would be center right. To the left of your Republicans would be center right.

Now political parties can rarely be mapped on a single axis to begin with, but this just shows what you're asking me to do from my point of view. You can't even criticize GOP from a center right angle, but you're asking me to criticize your left from that same angle.

For us Bernie is a moderate leftist. We mostly consider AOC as standard leftist. Neither is considered remotely radical. Currently our biggest party in parliament is Social Democrats with 40 Bernies out of a total 200 seats. Our prime minister and chairman of that party is a 35 year old woman. Oh and i doubt i would vote them ever.

What you're asking me to do is way more than what you're not even willing to do yourself.

Apparently there was 1 D and 3 Rs initially accused of inside trading related to the virus. We're all very surprised they were all acquitted.

[Kalam]

Gimmick,

What are your thoughts on the immigration debate from the outside looking in? My understanding is that despite the narrative from the D party and the MSM that the US is uniquely xenophobic, our immigration policy (and our lack of enforcement of our own policies) is MUCH less restrictive of immigration than every European country.

I find it interesting how in US politics somehow the US "left" has framed immigration as purely a moral issue and is therefor pro immigration, when classic leftism would support a more restrictive approach, to provide labor more economic leverage. My 9 year old son has enough of a grasp of economics 101 to understand that increased immigration of workers will increase labor supply and decrease wages, yet 40% of the country (including by far the most educated people) seemingly don't.

I also find it interesting how the MSM has managed to frame the argument as one that only affects low skill workers. When the truth is the work visa system for skilled workers has been just as instrumental in suppressing middle class wages to facilitate further wealth transfer to the top 1%.

[gimmick]

Gimmick,

What are your thoughts on the immigration debate from the outside looking in? My understanding is that despite the narrative from the D party and the MSM that the US is uniquely xenophobic, our immigration policy (and our lack of enforcement of our own policies) is MUCH less restrictive of immigration than every European country.

I find it interesting how in US politics somehow the US "left" has framed immigration as purely a moral issue and is therefor pro immigration, when classic leftism would support a more restrictive approach, to provide labor more economic leverage. My 9 year old son has enough of a grasp of economics 101 to understand that increased immigration of workers will increase labor supply and decrease wages, yet 40% of the country (including by far the most educated people) seemingly don't.

I also find it interesting how the MSM has managed to frame the argument as one that only affects low skill workers. When the truth is the work visa system for skilled workers has been just as instrumental in suppressing middle class wages to facilitate further wealth transfer to the top 1%.

It depends how you look at it.

GOP does play to their base with a very loud xenophobic sentiment and does other things in practice. In practice certain well paid positions are filled without friction by using immigrants and i never seem to hear any objection to this from GOP. It certainly limits the upward mobility and suppresses wages.

GOP makes a lot of noise about low skilled immigrants, but doesn't seem to care about businesses/individuals employing them. For unknown reasons millions of people can keep working and living illegally in the US for decades. Any action to track/register individuals is always an attack on privacy. I don't think I've heard any practical suggestions besides reinforcing the fence.

For the most part Americans aren't willing to work in fields that are most populated by immigrants and they're even less willing to pay more for products/services. You don't trust your government to use additional tax revenue in a way that's beneficial to you.

I don't think you really want to get rid of the immigrants. It's most convenient for the middle class and businesses. When economy is booming no one cares and when it's not no one is on the hook to provide any security to immigrants. It's a good enough gamble for immigrants when their country of origin has even worse odds.

And you're right that the American Left mostly just takes the moral high ground without providing any solutions. American Right does that with abortion. Incidentally both lower wages and are associated with a higher crime rate.

For the highly skilled workers there's also the trading angle. Most 1st world countries toss them back and forth. There's basically none of that with low skilled workers. And much less of that with 1st and 3rd world.

Europe isn't more restrictive with immigration. It's not even close with refugees. Immigration for work is closer and you could make a case that EU is just one country. I wouldn't, but if we did we might as well consider Americas as a single country and suddenly you don't have an immigration problem.

What EU does is use eastern member states as worker reservoirs for wealthier member states.

[The Boz]

Why anyone cares what some creepy looking fuck from Europe thinks about America is amazing to me. There isn’t one of these dirty animals from these shitholes that doesn’t want to be American. Their jealousy shows in every post and it’s why they act like they hate us so much.

Europe is no different than Nigeria, all jealous trash looking to scam us and have what we do.

[GrenadaRoger]

finland is not in NATO...was never offered membership...so you see why now?

Did you need us in Iraq or Afghanistan? How did that work out again?

Did you need us in Iraq or Afghanistan? We stomped them good enough without you. But a China confront looming, we will keep you folks in mind because we may need bullet sponges.

How did that work out again? Hasn't been a repeat of 9/11, so they got the message. And the pull out was going fine while Trump was running it; he was requiring the Taliban to meet conditions for the leaving to progress. But Biden removing those conditions led to the bad finish.

[gimmick]

Did you need us in Iraq or Afghanistan? How did that work out again?

Did you need us in Iraq or Afghanistan? We stomped them good enough without you. But a China confront looming, we will keep you folks in mind because we may need bullet sponges.

How did that work out again? Hasn't been a repeat of 9/11, so they got the message. And the pull out was going fine while Trump was running it; he was requiring the Taliban to meet conditions for the leaving to progress. But Biden removing those conditions led to the bad finish.

Fairly sure the idea behind 9/11 was that you would do something stupid. Mission accomplished.

I guess it's a success that Taliban is only slightly better equipped now than when the war started. It wasn't your worst your war. And it's always nice to see China and Russia working together in making trade deals with Islamic extremists. TBH i can't really think how could this have gone any worse. Oh well you'll get another shot when pulling out of Iraq.

[JACKDANIELS]

JOE BIDENS AMERICA

[MumblesBadly]

Sloppy Joe is funny because occasionally he will have a moment of sanity and comments on how the libs around him ruined Portland, and how he hates it.

Then he will snap back into CNN drone mode and basically defend every left-wing talking point brought up here.

Sad!

Liz Cheney is more conservative than you, but I don’t see you criticizing her for “supporting the Dems” despite her being a vocal and active participant with the Dems in making the guy you voted for last year and would vote for again in 2024 if the GOP nominates him face the consequences for conspiring to stop the constitutional counting of electoral ballots by practically any means possible. LOL you claiming to stand for “law and order”!

[Walter Sobchak]

Sloppy Joe is funny because occasionally he will have a moment of sanity and comments on how the libs around him ruined Portland, and how he hates it.

Then he will snap back into CNN drone mode and basically defend every left-wing talking point brought up here.

Sad!

Liz Cheney is more conservative than you, but I don’t see you criticizing her for “supporting the Dems” despite her being a vocal and active participant with the Dems in making the guy you voted for last year and would vote for again in 2024 if the GOP nominates him face the consequences for conspiring to stop the constitutional counting of electoral ballots by practically any means possible. LOL you claiming to stand for “law and order”!

Nobody who claims to prioritize law and order could possibly support Trump. They are mutually exclusive.

[Sanlmar]

Sloppy Joe is funny because occasionally he will have a moment of sanity and comments on how the libs around him ruined Portland, and how he hates it.

Then he will snap back into CNN drone mode and basically defend every left-wing talking point brought up here.

Sad!

Liz Cheney is more conservative than you, but I don’t see you criticizing her for “supporting the Dems” despite her being a vocal and active participant with the Dems in making the guy you voted for last year and would vote for again in 2024 if the GOP nominates him face the consequences for conspiring to stop the constitutional counting of electoral ballots by practically any means possible. LOL you claiming to stand for “law and order”!

Based on his posts Druff is clearly more knowledgeable and interested in liberal politics thus refrains from commenting on the state of Republican affairs as that is not his strength.

Admittedly, Republican affairs are more complicated (and frankly interesting).

I hope you find this helpful going forward.

[MumblesBadly]

Liz Cheney is more conservative than you, but I don’t see you criticizing her for “supporting the Dems” despite her being a vocal and active participant with the Dems in making the guy you voted for last year and would vote for again in 2024 if the GOP nominates him face the consequences for conspiring to stop the constitutional counting of electoral ballots by practically any means possible. LOL you claiming to stand for “law and order”!

Based on his posts Druff is clearly more knowledgeable and interested in liberal politics thus refrains from commenting on the state of Republican affairs as that is not his strength.

Admittedly, Republican affairs are more complicated (and frankly interesting).

I hope you find this helpful going forward.

Frankly, I was hoping Druff would respond with a Trump Derangement gif. But perhaps he was sufficiently shamed by your response to the last one he posted in response to some recent discussions of the Insurrectionist-in-Chief.