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Thread: The Lab Leak Theory, because we need several Covid threads when we run out of drama.

  1. #21
    Platinum gimmick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post
    I had followed the Weinstein brothers casually over the last few years. The guys dubbed the IDW. It’s a shame. I like contrarians in general. That first Joe Rogan interview saying it was a lab leak was interesting. I hadn’t seen it. It wasn’t insane or anything. I actually agreed with the super hard lockdown strategy. It was what I always advocated for. Now that we’ve seen it come in waves, it would have saved a lot of lives, but idk that it eliminates the problem. The really great testing he also advocates for to be used after it for contract tracing isn’t yet a reality. We are basically fifty different countries here on this issue. Hard to say how it ever works.

    All his ideas though had absolutely zero receptive politicians. He was literally preaching to politicians who either weren’t open to lab leak theory and were entrenched in defeating a reeling President mismanaging the pandemic at the time or calling for a complete lockdown at a time most of the GOP was advocating the exact opposite and trying to wish it away. There was basically no audience for his ideas.

    But it was interesting and I hadn’t seen it

    I struggle to get into Joe Rogan despite him having the most successful podcast in the US. Strange part is he has a lot of the same interests as me, yet I struggle with him. I’m not a fan of stoners, I’m too intense to deal with them. They tend to annoy me.

    I associate both Weinstein brothers with Thiel. Obviously the older one works for him. They actually remind me of libertarians on 2+2 a decade ago, many of whom were quite smart, but they tended to strike me as sociopaths often. Thiel often gave me that vibe. It’s really strange how much Weinstein has went from a little eccentric but smart likable guy to cozying up to loons. That’s a lucrative space to cozy up to.

    You sent me down a rabbit hole today. Listened to Sam Harris sound legitimately disappointed with them, and almost hurt as he considered them friends, to see them become Alex Jones. Lot of questions if it was a natural evolution after having bad experiences in academia or just a money grab.

    I had heard of drastic a few months ago, but couldn’t find anything. Not a YouTube channel or something accessible. I saw they were the data detectives that had broke China stuff, but never had a name attached to them until your first video. Very interesting guy. I really liked the interviewer also. It’s nice to get outside American partisanship where you can have a conversation not governed by it.

    I laughed at him basically arriving where many of us have with vaccines. That it’s an IQ thing basically. Useful though as I know a few people who buy into the IDW guys. They have unique appeal to like libertarian guys. Dudes who don’t want associated with Trump people, but are anti-government skeptics. This guy will appeal to them and also pulls no punches. Will be sharing that with a few people.

    Thanks for posting. I knew that group broke story, but couldn’t have named a single member. Nice to know who was behind that drastic data group.
    Yea i don't really know what happened with Bret Weinstein. That Joe Rogan bit has some oddities, like questioning the indoor transmission and speculating if it has something to do with adapting to lab environment. No, that's just how a lot airborne viruses behave. Other than that i don't remember anything weird.

    Everything he suggests is mostly textbook prevention methods.

    Then a year goes by and suddenly all of it is gone. Full on anti-vaxx and taking Ivermectin on air.

    I don't necessarily agree with most things related to the lab leak with Yuri Deigin, but he's still reasonable. In other interviews he goes a bit deeper in the conspiracy area and there's some issues with cherry picking things after the fact to paint a picture of what happened. He's a bit more certain of what happened, when there are several possibilities, than i would be. Something i would associate with youth or excellence in one area.

    With Joe Rogan i liked NewsRadio. Didn't care much about anything after that.

  2. #22
    Platinum gimmick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post
    One thing that interested me, and I assumed that dude is Russian? He spoke of Russian community in Toronto and eastern bloc. I assume he’s from Russia itself originally or a former republic. When he talked of how susceptible his own community was to misinformation, that he didn’t draw a straight line from them to our recent love of it. Seemed from here fairly obvious that our movement towards it was influenced by them. He kind of glazed over that. Made me wonder if he still has ties where he didn’t want to outright state it.
    He is Russian and likely still has family there. At some point he was visiting Moscow. I'm guessing the Toronto angle is business related. Didn't look too hard.

    In all likelihood he does watch what he says involving Russia. More of a reflex than anything more serious.

  3. #23
    Canadrunk limitles's Avatar
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    Joe Rogan has a lot of great qualities, one of which he seems to be genuine.
    However, as much knowledge he has on some subjects he also has little to no knowledge on many others. So when he interviews someone with an an agenda or a belief on some subject he simply provides a platform for that individual, i.e. Alex Jones.

    It makes for an interesting show but falls short of facts, often

  4. #24
    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    the thing to remember about joe rogan is that he is legitimately not smart.

    hes got that whole 'i did psychedelics and now im willing to entertain literally any idea thats shiny and interesting without going through any sort of tedious intellectual vetting whatsoever' vibe rocking and thats been working out great for him because his audience, coincidentally, just want their mind blown and are also intellectual cripples by and large.

    anyway i love how the venn diagram for people people who are like 'politicians should just tell the truth and let the facts fall where the may' and the people saying 'the politicians are so unfair to the president who was telling everyone the virus was a democrat hoax for months' is a single circle.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  5. #25
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gimmick View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    So do you think the debate about this should have been shut down in 2020, due to concerns about "racism", or nah?

    Do you think this should have been concluded to be false by "experts" in 2020, and deemed unworthy of discussion, or nah?

    It seems like every time I bring up the 2020 shutdown of the lab leak theory debate to a leftist, I get an answer trying to show me that the lab leak theory may be incorrect. Which, of course, totally isn't my point.
    This wasn't shut down in 2020, due to concerns of "racism".

    None of the above was concluded false by "experts" in 2020 or deemed unworthy of discussion.

    Are my posts an answer showing you that it maybe incorrect? Is this too ambiguous, "i don't have a huge preference for either theory"?

    Why am i including this bit, "the inverse hypothesis about the exclusively natural origin of the virus does not yet have strong evidence either", that i think is 100% true in the sphere of public knowledge?

    Was i some how not clear when i said Plandemictards were the biggest reason for several conspiracy claims?

    Ps. The false bit is mostly about, is it likely that RaTG13 was used as backbone in engineering cov2. The person that wrote the paper about likely Lab Leak doesn't even believe that. It's an unlikely backbone. It's very hard to get from RaTG13 to cov2 by using humanized mice for reproduction.
    Discussion of the lab leak theory was shut down in 2020. You can continue being naive or willfully ignorant as to the reason.

    In the other thread, I linked an article (which I found after a minute of googling), from May 2021, regarding Facebook and Twitter having shut down ALL lab leak discussion for a long time.

    Pretty amazing that you are excusing this because "Plandemictards" took it a step further and made conspiracy claims surrounding it. So what's the conclusion here? That we should have a complete shutdown on legitimate discussion of a virus' origins, because a small group of conspiracy theorists are pushing a false narrative around it?

    You're really stretching here.

    For all of 2020, it was considered anywhere between "racist" and "conspiratorial" to even bring up the Lab Leak Theory. Discussion was actually banned on Facebook and Twitter. The Twitter sidebar actually showed that "experts" had determined that COVID-19 did not escape from a lab.

    If you want to be naive and think that had nothing to do with the election that year, go right ahead. You might as well also state you believe that Facebook and Twitter banned discussion of Hunter Biden's laptop because of their "hacked materials" policy, and not for any political reason.


    There are basically two separate and distinct discussions surrounding the Lab Leak Theory:

    1) Is the theory correct or incorrect?

    2) Why was the discussion of this censored in 2020, and why was it portrayed as highly unlikely to be true back then, given that there were substantial reasons to consider it?


    Lefties love to jump to discussion of #1 in order to avoid #2. Both are equally important.

  6. #26
    Platinum gimmick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by gimmick View Post

    This wasn't shut down in 2020, due to concerns of "racism".

    None of the above was concluded false by "experts" in 2020 or deemed unworthy of discussion.

    Are my posts an answer showing you that it maybe incorrect? Is this too ambiguous, "i don't have a huge preference for either theory"?

    Why am i including this bit, "the inverse hypothesis about the exclusively natural origin of the virus does not yet have strong evidence either", that i think is 100% true in the sphere of public knowledge?

    Was i some how not clear when i said Plandemictards were the biggest reason for several conspiracy claims?

    Ps. The false bit is mostly about, is it likely that RaTG13 was used as backbone in engineering cov2. The person that wrote the paper about likely Lab Leak doesn't even believe that. It's an unlikely backbone. It's very hard to get from RaTG13 to cov2 by using humanized mice for reproduction.
    Discussion of the lab leak theory was shut down in 2020. You can continue being naive or willfully ignorant as to the reason.

    In the other thread, I linked an article (which I found after a minute of googling), from May 2021, regarding Facebook and Twitter having shut down ALL lab leak discussion for a long time.

    Pretty amazing that you are excusing this because "Plandemictards" took it a step further and made conspiracy claims surrounding it. So what's the conclusion here? That we should have a complete shutdown on legitimate discussion of a virus' origins, because a small group of conspiracy theorists are pushing a false narrative around it?

    You're really stretching here.

    For all of 2020, it was considered anywhere between "racist" and "conspiratorial" to even bring up the Lab Leak Theory. Discussion was actually banned on Facebook and Twitter. The Twitter sidebar actually showed that "experts" had determined that COVID-19 did not escape from a lab.

    If you want to be naive and think that had nothing to do with the election that year, go right ahead. You might as well also state you believe that Facebook and Twitter banned discussion of Hunter Biden's laptop because of their "hacked materials" policy, and not for any political reason.


    There are basically two separate and distinct discussions surrounding the Lab Leak Theory:

    1) Is the theory correct or incorrect?

    2) Why was the discussion of this censored in 2020, and why was it portrayed as highly unlikely to be true back then, given that there were substantial reasons to consider it?


    Lefties love to jump to discussion of #1 in order to avoid #2. Both are equally important.
    So you don't really want to talk about lab leak theory, just bitch about not being able to talk about it.

    You can pretty clearly see that Twitter and Facebook used Lab Leak Theory as an umbrella category to clean house and get rid off insane amount of misinformation that were "adjacent". Sure you can say that a small part of the origin story was not talked about as much, but the actual damage caused by it was negligent. That's before comparing the benefits for shutting down factions that ended up literally killing people with their amazing advice just one year down the line.

    It's just weird seeing revisionist history about last year. Do you honestly think that "few idiots added conspiracies onto the lab leak theory" is a fair representation of the "discussion" in Facebook/Twitter? I mostly remember it as, few people talked about lab leak theory without any conspiracies and then had their comment section filled with tards.

    Biden's laptop story was snuffed for the same reason. Twitter and Facebook were actually doing something to the rampant misinformation on their site. For all kinds of reasons they didn't feel like having their site used to manipulate people. Hacked materials was something that could be used as an umbrella category to avoid another DNC hack incident. Shucks we missed out on literally nothing. I have no idea who was voting Biden because of Hunter's stellar reputation.

  7. #27
    Diamond TheXFactor's Avatar
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  8. #28
    Plutonium Sanlmar's Avatar
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    The metric Druff is using for reporting and discussion of the Lab Leak theory is Facebook?

    Not the Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, The Economist, New Republic, Vanity Fair …… but Facebook.

    To even consider Facebook and their creepy and mysterious algorithms as your news feed should cause you to re-examine your life.

    Let me know on what day Facebook is not in front of some Congressional subcommittee or court. We know there is a problem pal.

    To even surmise the reasons for Facebook’s practices Gimmick is to fall into an ugly abyss. Don’t deign to respond to this nonsense.
    Last edited by Sanlmar; 09-30-2021 at 09:47 AM.

  9. #29
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    Whether COVID-19 came from a Chinese lab or a Chinese market is of little importance because the solution remains the same; the systematic extermination of all Asians (excluding hot female Asians).

     
    Comments
      
      Sanlmar: you won’t have to wait long for the faceoff.

  10. #30
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanlmar View Post
    The metric Druff is using for reporting and discussion of the Lab Leak theory is Facebook?

    Not the Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, The Economist, New Republic, Vanity Fair …… but Facebook.

    To even consider Facebook and their creepy and mysterious algorithms as your news feed should cause you to re-examine your life.

    Let me know on what day Facebook is not in front of some Congressional subcommittee or court. We know there is a problem pal.

    To even surmise the reasons for Facebook’s practices Gimmick is to fall into an ugly abyss. Don’t deign to respond to this nonsense.
    The mainstream media would not discuss it in 2020, except occasionally to mock it, and to cast Trump and his supporters as racist.

    It's not like Facebook and Twitter were outliers. They were part of a greater effort to suppress discussion of this theory, because we needed to stick to the left wing narrative that Trump was being super duper racist blaming China, and by extension he was responsible for all hate-based violence against Asian Americans. (We will have to ignore the race of most of the people committing that violence, though.)

    Do you remember the mainstream media giving the lab leak theory any legitimate discussion in 2020, aside from mocking it?

    I'm very surprised that, with all of your healthy skepticism of society, you are satisfied blaming this on Mark Zuckerberg and calling it a day.

  11. #31
    Plutonium Sanlmar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post

    I'm very surprised that, with all of your healthy skepticism of society, you are satisfied blaming this on Mark Zuckerberg and calling it a day.
    I don’t blame Zuckerberg for anything. I pay absolutely zero attention to Facebook and hold anyone who does in less esteem. As you know, I have never been a member of FB and strive hard to not fall victim to any curated content - including yours.

    wink

  12. #32
    Plutonium Sanlmar's Avatar
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    I do remember reading articles about the lab scenario. Lab worker possibly selling a lab animal was a memorable take. In the end it hurt China perhaps more than any other country. China the “factory to the world” and all that. Thus, ruling out malicious intent - to me it was academic and decided to leave it to the academics.

    China did bounce back pretty quick. They were pretty ruthless as human rights isn’t so much a thing. Advantage goes to Asians

  13. #33
    Platinum gimmick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanlmar View Post
    The metric Druff is using for reporting and discussion of the Lab Leak theory is Facebook?

    Not the Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, The Economist, New Republic, Vanity Fair …… but Facebook.

    To even consider Facebook and their creepy and mysterious algorithms as your news feed should cause you to re-examine your life.

    Let me know on what day Facebook is not in front of some Congressional subcommittee or court. We know there is a problem pal.

    To even surmise the reasons for Facebook’s practices Gimmick is to fall into an ugly abyss. Don’t deign to respond to this nonsense.
    Eh, it's the number 1 source of information for mouthbreathers that are most susceptible for manipulation. So yea we have to care a little bit what they are doing. Twitter is somewhere there as well.

    I give zero fucks what possible collateral damage comes from Tech actually doing something to purge misinformation. It's one thing when it's just your elections or Brexit, but Covid-19 was the single biggest global event in the last 30 years. A possible extinction level event and were apparently worrying about sensibilities of idiots.

    Fairly sure i have Facebook account and no Twitter. Rarely use either. Couldn't care less if both were gone tomorrow.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanlmar View Post
    The metric Druff is using for reporting and discussion of the Lab Leak theory is Facebook?

    Not the Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, The Economist, New Republic, Vanity Fair …… but Facebook.

    To even consider Facebook and their creepy and mysterious algorithms as your news feed should cause you to re-examine your life.

    Let me know on what day Facebook is not in front of some Congressional subcommittee or court. We know there is a problem pal.

    To even surmise the reasons for Facebook’s practices Gimmick is to fall into an ugly abyss. Don’t deign to respond to this nonsense.
    The mainstream media would not discuss it in 2020, except occasionally to mock it, and to cast Trump and his supporters as racist.

    It's not like Facebook and Twitter were outliers. They were part of a greater effort to suppress discussion of this theory, because we needed to stick to the left wing narrative that Trump was being super duper racist blaming China, and by extension he was responsible for all hate-based violence against Asian Americans. (We will have to ignore the race of most of the people committing that violence, though.)

    Do you remember the mainstream media giving the lab leak theory any legitimate discussion in 2020, aside from mocking it?

    I'm very surprised that, with all of your healthy skepticism of society, you are satisfied blaming this on Mark Zuckerberg and calling it a day.
    Trump blamed China to remove focus from his retarded handling of Covid-19 and something random about his highly successful trade war against China. With such pure motives i can't see why everyone didn't join in.

    There's really nothing to lose in ignoring Team Retards wishes on this occasion (i'm sure one day there will be something where it's not true).

    There's quite a lot to lose for pissing off China in 2020 at several points of the pandemic. I'm sure you would prefer to cry about China not being helpful with valuable information regarding the virus, but the rest of the world just wants to get it and then worry about who to blame once it's appropriate.

    Before we start attacking worlds top virologists, just maybe we let them first help out with the ongoing crisis at hand where they're our best and at times only way out of this shit. Is that hard to understand?

    We didn't restart looking at the origin because of fucking Trump or Biden. We did it because of the vaccine.

  15. #35
    Diamond BCR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanlmar View Post
    I do remember reading articles about the lab scenario. Lab worker possibly selling a lab animal was a memorable take. In the end it hurt China perhaps more than any other country. China the “factory to the world” and all that. Thus, ruling out malicious intent - to me it was academic and decided to leave it to the academics.

    China did bounce back pretty quick. They were pretty ruthless as human rights isn’t so much a thing. Advantage goes to Asians
    This was my thing. I feel like it was the prevalent discussion of the first month. China nailing doors shut. Chinese dissidents talking about mass graves. Satellite images.

    It was the main issue early, until you sense whomever is at fault, it isn’t some intentional bio weapon. At that point you know it’s going to takes years to unwind if ever.

    The moment that changed everything was when Trump said the 15 cases would magically disappear and waved his hand. That was, IMO, the most idiotic statement by a president ever. I don’t think you could find anything in history as stupid. I recall after that, I said point blank, it goes away or he does. Then he followed it up with hours long news conferences where he told everyone he was the worlds foremost expert on the issue and how the doctors were amazed by his knowledge for the first hour until he let them talk.

    You can do stupid shit that renders everything irrelevant after. Add in him saying CHiiiina like a moron every day trying to obfuscate, of course any press who already disliked him wasn’t going to let him change the subject at that point. He had already owned it. Once you claim to be the worlds foremost expert, after you claimed it would disappear, you’re fucking toast.

  16. #36
    Diamond dwai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gimmick View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanlmar View Post
    The metric Druff is using for reporting and discussion of the Lab Leak theory is Facebook?

    Not the Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, The Economist, New Republic, Vanity Fair …… but Facebook.

    To even consider Facebook and their creepy and mysterious algorithms as your news feed should cause you to re-examine your life.

    Let me know on what day Facebook is not in front of some Congressional subcommittee or court. We know there is a problem pal.

    To even surmise the reasons for Facebook’s practices Gimmick is to fall into an ugly abyss. Don’t deign to respond to this nonsense.
    Eh, it's the number 1 source of information for mouthbreathers that are most susceptible for manipulation. So yea we have to care a little bit what they are doing. Twitter is somewhere there as well.

    I give zero fucks what possible collateral damage comes from Tech actually doing something to purge misinformation. It's one thing when it's just your elections or Brexit, but Covid-19 was the single biggest global event in the last 30 years. A possible extinction level event and were apparently worrying about sensibilities of idiots.

    Fairly sure i have Facebook account and no Twitter. Rarely use either. Couldn't care less if both were gone tomorrow.


    99.98% survivability bub

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwai View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by gimmick View Post

    Eh, it's the number 1 source of information for mouthbreathers that are most susceptible for manipulation. So yea we have to care a little bit what they are doing. Twitter is somewhere there as well.

    I give zero fucks what possible collateral damage comes from Tech actually doing something to purge misinformation. It's one thing when it's just your elections or Brexit, but Covid-19 was the single biggest global event in the last 30 years. A possible extinction level event and were apparently worrying about sensibilities of idiots.

    Fairly sure i have Facebook account and no Twitter. Rarely use either. Couldn't care less if both were gone tomorrow.


    99.98% survivability bub
    Not even close, but who cares. More interesting part is where did you get that number you keep parroting. Why is it constructed the way it is. That type of stuff.

    About 1% of Americans died last year. Do you want to guess what the survivability rate was for all Americans?

    99%.

    Around 11% of all deaths were attributed to Covid-19. Sure you had almost 18% excess deaths compared to 2019, but who's counting. Even that 11% makes it the 3rd most likely cause of death for that year. That's with a global effort to do more to stop it than what has been done to any other disease since the beginning of time in a single year.

    Also "possible". We didn't get unlucky. We actually did stuff. Some more than others.

  18. #38
    Platinum gimmick's Avatar
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    Yup...
    Name:  PJ_2020.07.30_social-media-news_00-04.png
Views: 231
Size:  106.4 KB
    ...totally making shit up again.

    https://www.pewresearch.org/journali...knowledgeable/

  19. #39
    Platinum gimmick's Avatar
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    Also...
    Name:  PJ_2020.07.30_social-media-news_00-03.png
Views: 116
Size:  142.8 KB
    ...mouthbreathers.

    Wonder why the right cares so much about social media?

  20. #40
    Platinum gimmick's Avatar
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    Just making shit up...
    Name:  PJ_2020.07.30_social-media-news_04-03.png
Views: 109
Size:  125.9 KB
    ...completely attached from reality.

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