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Thread: An evidence review of face masks against COVID-19

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwai View Post
    it's amazing how many leftie doofuses still believe this TO THIS DAY about this "pandemic", either willful ignorance or they can't admit they were wrong the entire time that this was never really about health, it was always about grabbing as much power as possible and never releasing it. BCR and Khalwat honestly think we can mask and vaccine our way out of this manufactured pandemic, this will never end until idiots like them wake up and realize it's about control and power
    I find it amusing that you've apparently categorized me as "leftie"

    In any event, I find it hard to respond to the conspiracy theories you've espoused above, other than to say they have no basis in fact.

    Vaccines do help mitigate COVID-19

    Masks do help mitigate COVID-19

    The COVID-19 pandemic was not "manufactured"

    All of these are backed up by an overwhelming number of studies, and by the overwhelming consensus from experts in their respected fields, around the world.

    If new facts come to light that genuinely repudiate them, then I will change my stance as well.

    What I will not do is base my stance on a public health matter on conspiracy theories, hunches, or politics.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by khalwat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dwai View Post
    it's amazing how many leftie doofuses still believe this TO THIS DAY about this "pandemic", either willful ignorance or they can't admit they were wrong the entire time that this was never really about health, it was always about grabbing as much power as possible and never releasing it. BCR and Khalwat honestly think we can mask and vaccine our way out of this manufactured pandemic, this will never end until idiots like them wake up and realize it's about control and power
    I find it amusing that you've apparently categorized me as "leftie"

    In any event, I find it hard to respond to the conspiracy theories you've espoused above, other than to say they have no basis in fact.

    Vaccines do help mitigate COVID-19

    Masks do help mitigate COVID-19

    The COVID-19 pandemic was not "manufactured"

    All of these are backed up by an overwhelming number of studies, and by the overwhelming consensus from experts in their respected fields, around the world.

    If new facts come to light that genuinely repudiate them, then I will change my stance as well.

    What I will not do is base my stance on a public health matter on conspiracy theories, hunches, or politics.
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    whatever you say big pharma fat boy

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by khalwat View Post
    These are all strawman arguments. Entropy did not state any of these things in his post, nor has anyone in this thread that I'd seen.

    In any event, certainly, there are countries that are worse than the USA in terms of deaths per capita and even infections per capita. Many of them are much smaller countries, or third-world countries without the kind of wealth and infrastructure that we have.

    But yes, there's no question that some wealthy, first-world countries are doing about as well as we are regarding the pandemic.

    However, one would think the USA would be leading the pack, not just in terms of all nations, but in terms of first-world, rich nations. And we are not.

    20th worst out of ~190 nations is not a position I'm proud to be in.

    4) Anti-vaxxers and anti-maskers are the reason COVID is still a thing
    Are you saying we'd be better off regarding COVID if no one took any vaccines, and no one wore any masks?
    Entropy asked why the US is the worst by a wide margin, and posted a Worldometers screen shot. I was explaining why that's not true.

    There are several resason why the US is in the lower eschelon of COVID deaths per million:

    1) Different COVID reporting techniques. Many third-world coutries do not keep good records of such deaths, nor do they put much effort into determining which deaths are associated with COVID. Additionally, many other countries don't report a COVID death as "someone who died who also tested positive for COVID", which we do. This leads to the US over-counting COVID deaths.

    2) Highly social population with a longtime emphasis on individual rights, and a general distrust for authority. This is why lockdowns and mask mandates don't work here. Even those on the left who outwardly support them are often found to be violating them behind closed doors (including the governor of California!) In general, people in the US are simply unwilling on the whole to act in hive mind, or to blindly do what they're told. This, in turn, leads to difficulty in preventing the spread of viruses.

    3) High level of politicization of COVID. There has been so much misinformation on both sides, that nobody knows what to trust or believe. This is why it's so hard to convince many on the right to take vaccines -- because the left has repeatedly lied or misled people about COVID. The vaccine DOES help slow the spread, but the left lost credibility after a year of contradictions, lies, and attempt to suppress dissenting opinoins, so now we have the Boy Who Cried Wolf effect.


    In any case, while vaccine hesitancy has caused some additional COVID spread (and death) in the US, the lack of such hesitancy wouldn't have stopped COVID. Even very highly vaccinated countries are noticing that they simply cannot stop COVID, and that the previous herd immunity model is not happening as expected.

    The masking needs to be abandned entirely. The burden-to-benefit ratio is simply not there. The benefit is negligible, if it exists at all. The burden, which manifests itself in many ways (including distrust of other much better preventative measures, such as vaccines) is simply too high for something with negligible benefit.

    We should be going back to normal life, and focusing upon the big things which really can help. There shouldn't be a battle over something which may or may not prevent a tiny percentage of the infections.

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    Quote Originally Posted by khalwat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dwai View Post
    it's amazing how many leftie doofuses still believe this TO THIS DAY about this "pandemic", either willful ignorance or they can't admit they were wrong the entire time that this was never really about health, it was always about grabbing as much power as possible and never releasing it. BCR and Khalwat honestly think we can mask and vaccine our way out of this manufactured pandemic, this will never end until idiots like them wake up and realize it's about control and power
    I find it amusing that you've apparently categorized me as "leftie"
    Everyone is a leftie that doesnt support Trump, it's the new "right".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post

    3) High level of politicization of COVID. There has been so much misinformation on both sides, that nobody knows what to trust or believe. This is why it's so hard to convince many on the right to take vaccines -- because the left has repeatedly lied or misled people about COVID. The vaccine DOES help slow the spread, but the left lost credibility after a year of contradictions, lies, and attempt to suppress dissenting opinoins, so now we have the Boy Who Cried Wolf effect.
    Do you blame the left for the consistent anti-vaxx content perpetuated daily by right wing media as well?
    PokerFraudAlert...will never censor your claims, even if they're against one of our sponsors. In addition to providing you an open forum report fraud within the poker community, we will also analyze your claims with a clear head an unbiased point of view. And, of course, the accused will always have the floor to defend themselves.-Dan Druff

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by khalwat View Post
    These are all strawman arguments. Entropy did not state any of these things in his post, nor has anyone in this thread that I'd seen.

    In any event, certainly, there are countries that are worse than the USA in terms of deaths per capita and even infections per capita. Many of them are much smaller countries, or third-world countries without the kind of wealth and infrastructure that we have.

    But yes, there's no question that some wealthy, first-world countries are doing about as well as we are regarding the pandemic.

    However, one would think the USA would be leading the pack, not just in terms of all nations, but in terms of first-world, rich nations. And we are not.

    20th worst out of ~190 nations is not a position I'm proud to be in.



    Are you saying we'd be better off regarding COVID if no one took any vaccines, and no one wore any masks?
    Entropy asked why the US is the worst by a wide margin, and posted a Worldometers screen shot. I was explaining why that's not true.

    There are several resason why the US is in the lower eschelon of COVID deaths per million:

    1) Different COVID reporting techniques. Many third-world coutries do not keep good records of such deaths, nor do they put much effort into determining which deaths are associated with COVID. Additionally, many other countries don't report a COVID death as "someone who died who also tested positive for COVID", which we do. This leads to the US over-counting COVID deaths.

    2) Highly social population with a longtime emphasis on individual rights, and a general distrust for authority. This is why lockdowns and mask mandates don't work here. Even those on the left who outwardly support them are often found to be violating them behind closed doors (including the governor of California!) In general, people in the US are simply unwilling on the whole to act in hive mind, or to blindly do what they're told. This, in turn, leads to difficulty in preventing the spread of viruses.

    3) High level of politicization of COVID. There has been so much misinformation on both sides, that nobody knows what to trust or believe. This is why it's so hard to convince many on the right to take vaccines -- because the left has repeatedly lied or misled people about COVID. The vaccine DOES help slow the spread, but the left lost credibility after a year of contradictions, lies, and attempt to suppress dissenting opinoins, so now we have the Boy Who Cried Wolf effect.


    In any case, while vaccine hesitancy has caused some additional COVID spread (and death) in the US, the lack of such hesitancy wouldn't have stopped COVID. Even very highly vaccinated countries are noticing that they simply cannot stop COVID, and that the previous herd immunity model is not happening as expected.

    The masking needs to be abandned entirely. The burden-to-benefit ratio is simply not there. The benefit is negligible, if it exists at all. The burden, which manifests itself in many ways (including distrust of other much better preventative measures, such as vaccines) is simply too high for something with negligible benefit.

    We should be going back to normal life, and focusing upon the big things which really can help. There shouldn't be a battle over something which may or may not prevent a tiny percentage of the infections.
    Its so great that you're responding to people who are lecturing us with common sense and decency. Except, they won't listen and they never will. You mentioned how the left is married to the masking position because they don't want to admit they're wrong. But, these are the same people, I'm sure, who also thought it was decent and reasonable to close down American schools for over a year or for small businesses to be forced to close and then go out of business. There is no discussion and there is definitely no effort to weigh the costs of our actions and compare to the actual benefit. This is true here on PFA and everywhere. There is no common sense left in these folks. They're married to their positions and are dug in and have lost common sense. This is why I think the response from Dwai at this point is as good as any. Children are being and have been hurt repeatedly because of people like Khalwat and Entropy. I find it to be a waste of time now to talk common sense and decency to people who aren't putting the kids 1st. These people are indecent and nonsensical.

     
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  7. #127
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    Just get use to it.

    For at least the next 5 years, you will be required to wear a mask in public.



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    The answer to the trivia question is unlimited corporate power. I don't want to get to deep into this complex web of corruption and hidden influence.
    Just remember America's Golden Rule and it's 100% true without a bit of sarcasm.

    IN AMERICA CORPORATE PROFIT ISN'T EVERYTHING, IT'S THE ONLY THING!

    If it's more profitable to give advice that will help spread the virus then that's policy.
    If it's more profitable to release the virus you've been doing gain of research on then that's policy.
    If it's more profitable for the media and or govt officials to create doubt about the effectiveness or tell the public not to use effective masks in the early stages of a pandemic then that's policy.

    If it's more profitable to tell doctors that super addictive opioids are non addictive pain relievers then that's policy.
    And it's policy with no questions asked and a total disregard for everything else including lives.


    i

     
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  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by country978 View Post
    Its so great that you're responding to people who are lecturing us with common sense and decency. Except, they won't listen and they never will. You mentioned how the left is married to the masking position because they don't want to admit they're wrong. But, these are the same people, I'm sure, who also thought it was decent and reasonable to close down American schools for over a year or for small businesses to be forced to close and then go out of business. There is no discussion and there is definitely no effort to weigh the costs of our actions and compare to the actual benefit. This is true here on PFA and everywhere. There is no common sense left in these folks. They're married to their positions and are dug in and have lost common sense. This is why I think the response from Dwai at this point is as good as any. Children are being and have been hurt repeatedly because of people like Khalwat and Entropy. I find it to be a waste of time now to talk common sense and decency to people who aren't putting the kids 1st. These people are indecent and nonsensical.
    Common sense isn't what leads you out of a global pandemic; experts in their field are.

    As someone who has children in schools right now, I'm "hurting children"? By having them follow the best advice we have on keeping them and others safe? By respecting and trusting experts, and discounting crackpot conspiracy theories?

    I'm genuinely curious how you believe I am not putting kids first? My children are all vaccinated, and respectfully wear masks where and when required. They also have been attending school in person for the last year, and otherwise leading normal lives.

    The people who are endangering children are the anti-science, pro-conspiracy theory crowd that is filling their heads with nonsense.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by khalwat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by country978 View Post
    Its so great that you're responding to people who are lecturing us with common sense and decency. Except, they won't listen and they never will. You mentioned how the left is married to the masking position because they don't want to admit they're wrong. But, these are the same people, I'm sure, who also thought it was decent and reasonable to close down American schools for over a year or for small businesses to be forced to close and then go out of business. There is no discussion and there is definitely no effort to weigh the costs of our actions and compare to the actual benefit. This is true here on PFA and everywhere. There is no common sense left in these folks. They're married to their positions and are dug in and have lost common sense. This is why I think the response from Dwai at this point is as good as any. Children are being and have been hurt repeatedly because of people like Khalwat and Entropy. I find it to be a waste of time now to talk common sense and decency to people who aren't putting the kids 1st. These people are indecent and nonsensical.
    Common sense isn't what leads you out of a global pandemic; experts in their field are.

    As someone who has children in schools right now, I'm "hurting children"? By having them follow the best advice we have on keeping them and others safe? By respecting and trusting experts, and discounting crackpot conspiracy theories?

    I'm genuinely curious how you believe I am not putting kids first? My children are all vaccinated, and respectfully wear masks where and when required. They also have been attending school in person for the last year, and otherwise leading normal lives.

    The people who are endangering children are the anti-science, pro-conspiracy theory crowd that is filling their heads with nonsense.


    what a deranged freak, turn off cnn sponsored by Pfizer for a month you fucking idiot faggot

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    Quote Originally Posted by dwai View Post

    whatever you say big pharma fat boy
    The only thing you did is post a wall of "sources" from a single conspiracy website, and amusingly, you apparently didn't read any of them.

    I went through the first half-dozen or so before I got bored, and found that every single one of the claims was debunked by the actual study.

    Ooops. Better find some other random conspiracy website or random Facebook post to cite as evidence backing up your nonsensical claims.

    You are disingenuous with your approach; you're seeking to cherry-pick arguments that suit you, rather than following the facts. Only you're doing that poorly too, and are referencing sources that disagree with you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dwai View Post
    what a deranged freak, turn off cnn sponsored by Pfizer for a month you fucking idiot faggot
    Your arguments boil down to ad-hominem attacks and poorly thought out conspiracy theories that have been roundly debunked.

    Wake me up when you have something useful to add to the discussion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by khalwat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dwai View Post
    what a deranged freak, turn off cnn sponsored by Pfizer for a month you fucking idiot faggot
    Your arguments boil down to ad-hominem attacks and poorly thought out conspiracy theories that have been roundly debunked.

    Wake me up when you have something useful to add to the discussion.
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    ROFL go get another jab up your butthole fucking loser

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    Quote Originally Posted by khalwat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by country978 View Post
    Its so great that you're responding to people who are lecturing us with common sense and decency. Except, they won't listen and they never will. You mentioned how the left is married to the masking position because they don't want to admit they're wrong. But, these are the same people, I'm sure, who also thought it was decent and reasonable to close down American schools for over a year or for small businesses to be forced to close and then go out of business. There is no discussion and there is definitely no effort to weigh the costs of our actions and compare to the actual benefit. This is true here on PFA and everywhere. There is no common sense left in these folks. They're married to their positions and are dug in and have lost common sense. This is why I think the response from Dwai at this point is as good as any. Children are being and have been hurt repeatedly because of people like Khalwat and Entropy. I find it to be a waste of time now to talk common sense and decency to people who aren't putting the kids 1st. These people are indecent and nonsensical.
    Common sense isn't what leads you out of a global pandemic; experts in their field are.

    As someone who has children in schools right now, I'm "hurting children"? By having them follow the best advice we have on keeping them and others safe? By respecting and trusting experts, and discounting crackpot conspiracy theories?

    I'm genuinely curious how you believe I am not putting kids first? My children are all vaccinated, and respectfully wear masks where and when required. They also have been attending school in person for the last year, and otherwise leading normal lives.

    The people who are endangering children are the anti-science, pro-conspiracy theory crowd that is filling their heads with nonsense.
    We just don't agree. I like it that you're willing and able to have a respectful dialogue with me. I appreciate that a lot. I don't believe putting masks on kids is the right thing to do. I don't believe keeping them out of school was anything other than criminal. I don't care who it is making the argument that we've done our best for the kids or what studies or data you can point to that supports that. I believe the kids have been failed in a big and sad way. I respect you and what you have to say. We just do not agree on this one subject and we likely won't ever.

     
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwai View Post
    what a deranged freak, turn off cnn sponsored by Pfizer for a month you fucking idiot faggot
    LOL, I think you watch CNN 24/7. Just like them, you constantly obsess over Trump, COVID, and blacks. Get a life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayjami View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dwai View Post
    what a deranged freak, turn off cnn sponsored by Pfizer for a month you fucking idiot faggot
    LOL, I think you watch CNN 24/7. Just like them, you constantly obsess over Trump, COVID, and blacks. Get a life.
    LOL YEAH I'm the one obsessed with Trump and covid

    go get your cross eye checked you fucking bunko lawyer

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    Quote Originally Posted by dwai View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayjami View Post
    LOL, I think you watch CNN 24/7. Just like them, you constantly obsess over Trump, COVID, and blacks. Get a life.
    LOL YEAH I'm the one obsessed with Trump and covid

    go get your cross eye checked you fucking bunko lawyer
    Much rather be a cross eyed lawyer than a cock sucking dupe.

     
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      country978: you forgot bunko

  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayjami View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dwai View Post
    LOL YEAH I'm the one obsessed with Trump and covid

    go get your cross eye checked you fucking bunko lawyer
    Much rather be a cross eyed lawyer than a cock sucking dupe.


    okay buddy, I wouldn't

     
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      country978: this might be the most hilarious dwai of them all

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