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Thread: An evidence review of face masks against COVID-19

  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by limitles View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by country978 View Post

    You need the CDC to tell you what you seem to already know? Seems to me the only reason the kids should continue to be masked in school is because the all powerful rulers of parents and children (the unions) say so. The CDC is going to tailor their recommendations based on what the teacher unions tell them to do. That is if past history is any indication
    You just march in there and dump your kid off without a mask. No one can tell you what's what cause you read the N.Y. Post. Go ahead and make a stink, the kid is already behind the 8 ball with a parent like you.
    My youngest child is 18 so they make their own choices. If you think you can pass judgment on me as a father from behind a computer screen then have at it Les. Come at me with that shit to my face and you are running risk.

  2. #182
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    [QUOTE=country978;1021245]
    Quote Originally Posted by khalwat View Post
    You need the CDC to tell you what you seem to already know? Seems to me the only reason the kids should continue to be masked in school is because the all powerful rulers of parents and children (the unions) say so. The CDC is going to tailor their recommendations based on what the teacher unions tell them to do. That is if past history is any indication
    I'm of the opinion that when it comes to medical matters, we should listen to experts, yes. The CDC is one such body, but there are many others as well.

    I think it is potentially dangerous to rely on what someone said on Facebook or in some poker forum for medical advice. Rely on the consensus of people who are actually experts in the field, not on laymen who have "opinions" or political axes to grind.

    It isn't "propaganda" to listen to scientific consensus. It is propaganda to listen to people who have an ideological or political axe to grind (not saying you do, country978).

    I have kids in school that wear masks. At most, it's an annoyance.

    Do you have kids in school, country978?

     
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      The Boz: Nope

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by country978 View Post
    My youngest child is 18 so they make their own choices. If you think you can pass judgment on me as a father from behind a computer screen then have at it Les. Come at me with that shit to my face and you are running risk.
    I realize this wasn't targeted at me, but I want to be clear that I am passing no such judgment on you. I think despite the fact that we have a difference of opinion on some things (but to be fair, not on others), the tenor of the discussion has been fine.

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    [QUOTE=khalwat;1021257]
    Quote Originally Posted by country978 View Post

    I'm of the opinion that when it comes to medical matters, we should listen to experts, yes. The CDC is one such body, but there are many others as well.

    I think it is potentially dangerous to rely on what someone said on Facebook or in some poker forum for medical advice. Rely on the consensus of people who are actually experts in the field, not on laymen who have "opinions" or political axes to grind.

    It isn't "propaganda" to listen to scientific consensus. It is propaganda to listen to people who have an ideological or political axe to grind (not saying you do, country978).

    I have kids in school that wear masks. At most, it's an annoyance.

    Do you have kids in school, country978?
    I have 2 kids in college. Both schools mandated vaccine and booster and masks. My kids comply because they have to.

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by khalwat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by country978 View Post
    My youngest child is 18 so they make their own choices. If you think you can pass judgment on me as a father from behind a computer screen then have at it Les. Come at me with that shit to my face and you are running risk.
    I realize this wasn't targeted at me, but I want to be clear that I am passing no such judgment on you. I think despite the fact that we have a difference of opinion on some things (but to be fair, not on others), the tenor of the discussion has been fine.
    100% Khalwat. I've made it a point in the past to say I think you're a good dad. Its true we don't agree on these things but the only thing I know about you as a father is that you have a gentle voice and respect your kids. The other stuff doesn't matter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by country978 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by limitles View Post

    You just march in there and dump your kid off without a mask. No one can tell you what's what cause you read the N.Y. Post. Go ahead and make a stink, the kid is already behind the 8 ball with a parent like you.
    My youngest child is 18 so they make their own choices. If you think you can pass judgment on me as a father from behind a computer screen then have at it Les. Come at me with that shit to my face and you are running risk.
    That's my point. You can bitch and moan about laws or regulations all day but if you decide to live by your own rules then do so and live with consequences.

    That goes for your son as well. Hope he makes it to college and becomes a socialist

     
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      country978: my kids make their own choices. As do I.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    - It's now being acknowledged that cloth masks are mostly useless -- were they ever helpful against COVID?
    This bullet point is a misrepresentation (though to be fair, I haven't heard the actual podcast yet).

    If both parties are wearing a cloth mask, it doubles the safe contact time, and so they continue to be effective for casual contact (out and about in stores, etc.)

    Secondly, the article this is from states that this specifically applied only to the new highly infection omicron variant.

    ref: https://www.deseret.com/coronavirus/...-stop-covid-19

    So an accurate statement would be:

    - It's now being acknowledged that specifically for the omicron variant, cloth masks are mostly useless for long-term exposure of > 30 minutes of contact

    Also any attempt to retroactively apply what we know about this new omicron strain to past incarnations of COVID-19 is intellectually disingenuous, and flys in the face of a mountain of studies, and the overwhelming consensus of experts around the world:

    Conclusion
    Our review of the literature offers evidence in favor of widespread mask use as source control to reduce community transmission: Nonmedical masks use materials that obstruct particles of the necessary size; people are most infectious in the initial period postinfection, where it is common to have few or no symptoms (45, 46, 141); nonmedical masks have been effective in reducing transmission of respiratory viruses; and places and time periods where mask usage is required or widespread have shown substantially lower community transmission.

    The available evidence suggests that near-universal adoption of nonmedical masks when out in public, in combination with complementary public health measures, could successfully reduce Re to below 1, thereby reducing community spread if such measures are sustained. Economic analysis suggests that mask wearing mandates could add 1 trillion dollars to the US GDP (32, 34).
    ref: https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118#sec-22

    If you have evidence to refute the conclusions of the group of experts at the National Academy of Sciences, and the 141 studies & papers that they cite as references on the effectiveness of masks, but all means, present it.

    What I do agree with you is that we clearly need to treat each strain of the virus as its own unique thing, and adjust our behavior based on the unique characteristics of each strain.

    If we acknowledge that, by inference, it is also incorrect to then apply what we know about the current omicron strain to previous incarnations of the virus.

    The advice from experts continues to be consistent:

    What we can do

    When it comes to understanding the spread of COVID-19 and vaccination, Dr. Laguio-Vila suggests reorienting our expectations about how to approach both the virus and the vaccine.

    “There was a great hope that this vaccine would be a silver bullet,” Dr. Laguio-Vila said. “But now, I think we need to readjust our expectations based on what we are learning. For us to expect zero infections when half of the globe is vaccinated, there is a hubris in that. This is a humbling virus that we are learning to prevent and evade using science. We need to evolve our understanding as much as the virus evolves.”

    As we work to keep our minds open, there are steps we can continue to take to ensure we are as well protected as we can be against COVID-19.

    Get vaccinated: COVID-19 vaccines are available at local pharmacies, doctor’s offices, and other locations in many of our communities. This is proving to be the best form of prevention we have against the virus.

    Get boosted: If you are 18 years old or older and received your COVID-19 vaccine at least two months ago (Johnson & Johnson), or five months ago (Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna), you are now eligible for a booster shot. For 12 to 17 year olds who received the Pfizer vaccine, the booster shot has also been approved.

    Wear a mask: Properly wearing a medical mask while at indoor public locations can reduce the risk of contracting COVID-19

    Practice good hand hygiene: Wash your hands with soap and water frequently, especially after spending time in public spaces. This means rinsing for at least 20 seconds.

    Physical distancing: Stay six feet or more apart from other people in public spaces.
    -- Maryrose R. Laguio-Vila, MD, Internal Medicine, Infectious Disease

    ref: https://hive.rochesterregional.org/2...een-vaccinated
    Last edited by khalwat; 01-09-2022 at 11:58 AM.

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    I just paid a premium price for this Omnicrom balaclava.

    The toque was part of the deal

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      country978: good for the winter


  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by khalwat View Post
    This bullet point is a misrepresentation (though to be fair, I haven't heard the actual podcast yet).

    If both parties are wearing a cloth mask, it doubles the safe contact time, and so they continue to be effective for casual contact (out and about in stores, etc.)

    Secondly, the article this is from states that this specifically applied only to the new highly infection omicron variant.

    ref: https://www.deseret.com/coronavirus/...-stop-covid-19

    So an accurate statement would be:

    - It's now being acknowledged that specifically for the omicron variant, cloth masks are mostly useless for long-term exposure of > 30 minutes of contact

    Also any attempt to retroactively apply what we know about this new omicron strain to past incarnations of COVID-19 is intellectually disingenuous, and flys in the face of a mountain of studies, and the overwhelming consensus of experts around the world:

    Conclusion
    Our review of the literature offers evidence in favor of widespread mask use as source control to reduce community transmission: Nonmedical masks use materials that obstruct particles of the necessary size; people are most infectious in the initial period postinfection, where it is common to have few or no symptoms (45, 46, 141); nonmedical masks have been effective in reducing transmission of respiratory viruses; and places and time periods where mask usage is required or widespread have shown substantially lower community transmission.

    The available evidence suggests that near-universal adoption of nonmedical masks when out in public, in combination with complementary public health measures, could successfully reduce Re to below 1, thereby reducing community spread if such measures are sustained. Economic analysis suggests that mask wearing mandates could add 1 trillion dollars to the US GDP (32, 34).
    ref: https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118#sec-22

    If you have evidence to refute the conclusions of the group of experts at the National Academy of Sciences, and the 141 studies & papers that they cite as references on the effectiveness of masks, but all means, present it.

    What I do agree with you is that we clearly need to treat each strain of the virus as its own unique thing, and adjust our behavior based on the unique characteristics of each strain.

    If we acknowledge that, by inference, it is also incorrect to then apply what we know about the current omicron strain to previous incarnations of the virus.

    The advice from experts continues to be consistent:

    What we can do

    When it comes to understanding the spread of COVID-19 and vaccination, Dr. Laguio-Vila suggests reorienting our expectations about how to approach both the virus and the vaccine.

    “There was a great hope that this vaccine would be a silver bullet,” Dr. Laguio-Vila said. “But now, I think we need to readjust our expectations based on what we are learning. For us to expect zero infections when half of the globe is vaccinated, there is a hubris in that. This is a humbling virus that we are learning to prevent and evade using science. We need to evolve our understanding as much as the virus evolves.”

    As we work to keep our minds open, there are steps we can continue to take to ensure we are as well protected as we can be against COVID-19.

    Get vaccinated: COVID-19 vaccines are available at local pharmacies, doctor’s offices, and other locations in many of our communities. This is proving to be the best form of prevention we have against the virus.

    Get boosted: If you are 18 years old or older and received your COVID-19 vaccine at least two months ago (Johnson & Johnson), or five months ago (Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna), you are now eligible for a booster shot. For 12 to 17 year olds who received the Pfizer vaccine, the booster shot has also been approved.

    Wear a mask: Properly wearing a medical mask while at indoor public locations can reduce the risk of contracting COVID-19

    Practice good hand hygiene: Wash your hands with soap and water frequently, especially after spending time in public spaces. This means rinsing for at least 20 seconds.

    Physical distancing: Stay six feet or more apart from other people in public spaces.
    -- Maryrose R. Laguio-Vila, MD, Internal Medicine, Infectious Disease

    ref: https://hive.rochesterregional.org/2...een-vaccinated
    Too many mistakes were made and too many lies were told. These fights should just end and a return to normal in every way should happen straightaway. I'm not wearing a mask anymore and I am not taking a 3rd shot. We were told to take 2 shots so that we could all go back to normal and we could stop implementing policies that are harmful to kids. That was a lie. Nobody was talking about a 3rd shot or indefinite boosters when we were all bamboozled into taking shots which turned out to be ineffective at stopping the virus. We were told 2 weeks to stop the spread and that the vaccine would prevent covid. That was not true. I am entirely done paying any attention to this stupidity. I haven't been back to Vegas since June because of the mask mandate but I just heard on the podcast 360Vegas that nobody enforces it. Are we going to have to get to a point where nobody follows the rules because those that make them are the last ones to know how dumb they are? All this has to end because if it doesn't people are going to turn even nastier towards one another than they already are.
    Last edited by country978; 01-09-2022 at 12:35 PM.

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by limitles View Post
    I just paid a premium price for this Omnicrom balaclava.

    The toque was part of the deal

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    How much did they fleece you, for that Omnicron balaclava in the middle of January in Saskatoon ?

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by country978 View Post
    Too many mistakes were made and too many lies were told. These fights should just end and a return to normal in every way should happen post haste. I'm not wearing a mask anymore and I am not taking a 3rd shot. We were told to take 2 shots so that we could all go back to normal and we could stop implementing policies that are harmful to kids. That was a lie. Nobody was talking about a 3rd shot or indefinite boosters when we were all bamboozled into taking shots which turned out to be ineffective at stopping the virus. We were told 2 weeks to stop the spread and that the vaccine would prevent covid. That was not true. I am entirely done paying any attention to this stupidity. I haven't been back to Vegas since June because of the mask mandate but I just heard on the podcast 360Vegas that nobody enforces it. Are we going to have to get to a point where nobody follows the rules because those that make them are the last ones to know how dumb they are? All this has to end because if it doesn't people are going to turn even nastier towards one another than they already are.
    lie [ lahy ] - a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth.
    Statements made with the best available evidence at the time are not lies. They are exactly that, the best knowledge we have at the time.

    Science gets things wrong all the time, due to incomplete evidence, faulty studies, etc, etc. That doesn't make statements based on what they knew at the time "lies".

    Indeed, science is all about changing the narrative in the light of new evidence. This is why consensus is to important, it increases the sample size, and increases the likelihood that it is correct.

    While I understand and share your frustration with the changing situation on the ground, there's a reason why the USMC unofficially uses the slogan "Improvise, adapt, overcome". We have to adapt to the new knowledge we gain.

    I feel the opposite way you do, which is that if everyone followed the rules and recommendations with getting vaccinated, wearing masks, social distancing, etc. we'd be in a better place than we are now. We are still at only 61.4% of the population fully vaccinated, which is far below what is needed for herd immunity... and unfortunately in this globalized world, we don't live in a herd.

    My evidence for believing so is that countries which actually did do this such as Japan, Korea, New Zealand, and so on have a ridiculously better outcome than we have seen. We're talking about several orders of magnitude better.

    Which tells me that actually following the advice from our medical as a group is more effective than the intransigent non-compliance from a decent chunk of the population.

    Anyway, that's coulda shoulda woulda.

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by limitles View Post
    I just paid a premium price for this Omnicrom balaclava.

    The toque was part of the deal

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    You rock it well! Balaclavas are awesome, I use them for running and hiking during the frigid winters up here!

  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by khalwat View Post
    lie [ lahy ] - a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth.
    Statements made with the best available evidence at the time are not lies. They are exactly that, the best knowledge we have at the time.

    Science gets things wrong all the time, due to incomplete evidence, faulty studies, etc, etc. That doesn't make statements based on what they knew at the time "lies".

    Indeed, science is all about changing the narrative in the light of new evidence. This is why consensus is to important, it increases the sample size, and increases the likelihood that it is correct.

    While I understand and share your frustration with the changing situation on the ground, there's a reason why the USMC unofficially uses the slogan "Improvise, adapt, overcome". We have to adapt to the new knowledge we gain.

    I feel the opposite way you do, which is that if everyone followed the rules and recommendations with getting vaccinated, wearing masks, social distancing, etc. we'd be in a better place than we are now. We are still at only 61.4% of the population fully vaccinated, which is far below what is needed for herd immunity... and unfortunately in this globalized world, we don't live in a herd.

    My evidence for believing so is that countries which actually did do this such as Japan, Korea, New Zealand, and so on have a ridiculously better outcome than we have seen. We're talking about several orders of magnitude better.

    Which tells me that actually following the advice from our medical as a group is more effective than the intransigent non-compliance from a decent chunk of the population.

    Anyway, that's coulda shoulda woulda.
    shove it up your tranny wife's ass faggot nobody cares for your pseudo intellectual bullshit

  14. #194
    Diamond BCR's Avatar
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    Impressive response time dwai. Not shocking given you live in every Covid thread 24/7/365. Covid is your life. Has been for two years. It’s all you have. No one loves it more than you. What a fucking loser

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    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post
    Impressive response time dwai. Not shocking given you live in every Covid thread 24/7/365. Covid is your life. Has been for two years. Itís all you have. No one loves it more than you. What a fucking loser
    go get another jab you drug addicted loser

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    Def worth listening to Dr. Robert Malone.
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

    Ronald Reagan

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      splitthis: Wow
    all hail Hydra



    Originally Posted by DanDruff:Since I'm a 6'2" Republican with an average-sized nose and a last name which doesn't end with "stein", "man", or "berg", I can hide among the goyim and remain undetected unless I open my mouth about money matters.

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    where's this stupid faggot khalwat at?



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    Quote Originally Posted by dwai View Post
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    where's this stupid faggot khalwat at?


    Dead and gone, like Druffs reputation in the poker community after REDACTED 2.O brought him down because the lack of social acumen couldn't keep him away.

    RIP to both.
    PokerFraudAlert...will never censor your claims, even if they're against one of our sponsors. In addition to providing you an open forum report fraud within the poker community, we will also analyze your claims with a clear head an unbiased point of view. And, of course, the accused will always have the floor to defend themselves.-Dan Druff

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sloppy Joe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dwai View Post
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    where's this stupid faggot khalwat at?


    Dead and gone, like Druffs reputation in the poker community after REDACTED 2.O brought him down because the lack of social acumen couldn't keep him away.

    RIP to both.
    rip

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