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Thread: Andy Stacks calls out fellow Live at the Bike player Jenny "Savage" Leong for owing him money, then deletes video

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Vicky, would you be able to tell us who you are, or at least how you know Jenny?
    If you guys watch the first stream she plays, there is a girl sitting behind her and I m a good friend and tenant of that girl. What I heard from her today is that Savage is now convinced to release a public statement of her story by this week . I don't have to comment further since you guys can find out from her pretty soon.

  2. #22
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vicky1234 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Vicky, would you be able to tell us who you are, or at least how you know Jenny?
    If you guys watch the first stream she plays, there is a girl sitting behind her and I m a good friend and tenant of that girl. What I heard from her today is that Savage is now convinced to release a public statement of her story by this week . I don't have to comment further since you guys can find out from her pretty soon.
    Okay, well she is welcome to register an account here and make a statement, if she likes. I always like giving all parties a chance to speak. (Though, for the record, Andy has never made any contact with me, and I've never met him.)

  3. #23
    Biiiiiiiigggggg shocker that someone who (allegedly) refuses to pay back loans also wants to pursue a SLAPP.

  4. #24
    Was Postle at the table too?

  5. #25

    Quote Originally Posted by vicky1234 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Vicky, would you be able to tell us who you are, or at least how you know Jenny?
    If you guys watch the first stream she plays, there is a girl sitting behind her and I m a good friend and tenant of that girl. What I heard from her today is that Savage is now convinced to release a public statement of her story by this week . I don't have to comment further since you guys can find out from her pretty soon.

    wow I see you there Vicky!

    Tit shot post plz, in same shirt you're wearing or I call bologna story...ty.

     
    Comments
      
      PositiveVariance: I think Vicky is saying she is a friend of that girl, not that she is that girl.

  6. #26
    Wow. finally there are someone who has a brain. The story is definitely not what the poker fans want to believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by shoeshine box View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by vicky1234 View Post
    If you guys watch the first stream she plays, there is a girl sitting behind her and I m a good friend and tenant of that girl. What I heard from her today is that Savage is now convinced to release a public statement of her story by this week . I don't have to comment further since you guys can find out from her pretty soon.

    wow I see you there Vicky!

    Tit shot post plz, in same shirt you're wearing or I call bologna story...ty.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  7. #27
    Gold Cerveza Fria's Avatar
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    Always liked seeing things through Vicky's eyes.


  8. #28
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Well, I'm not going to suppress anything here, so if Jenny/Savage would like to put her story out here, she's welcome to do so. I am not on anyone's side here, as I don't know either party.

    I see she registered an account on PFA, so hopefully we will hear from her soon.

  9. #29
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Also, vicky, are you saying that you are going on Live at the Bike on Friday to expose what is going on? That will be very interesting viewing, to say the least!

  10. #30
    Gold JeffDime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vicky1234 View Post
    Me and her friend who played on stream before decide to expose everything on Friday on their live show just because we can no longer stand how shameless this casino and Andy is

    Vicky, this is not a comment on what you are alleging. From the outside it is clear that Live at the Bike has had a few rough months. Andy has been the #2 draw (Although a distance 2nd behind Garrett) for these LA High Stakes livestreams for years now. The streams are on delay and even sometimes completely pre-recorded. So just a heads up, it is very unlikely that any rebuttal discussion regarding Andy will actually make air on Live at the Bike’s Youtube stream imho.

    I understand there are two sides to every story. The speculation here is based on being around gambling my whole adult life and seeing how loans/debts are handled in general. I look forward to Jenny making her statement here. Never been my intent to pre judge. The whole thing was weird and fascinating. That’s why people are intrigued.

    The only other point I would make is sometimes it's the smaller amounts that end up being the most messy. It really doesn't matter the net worth of someone, the amount the may have loaned out in the past or how much they may have been burned in the past.

    Usually other circumstances can determine how a particular loan/debt is treated. I have seen what seemed like good friendships dissolve over what seemed to be a small amount of money. When people are gambling high stakes, economic circumstances can change in a matter of minutes.
    Last edited by JeffDime; 09-23-2021 at 11:44 AM.

  11. #31
    Did you guys watch Garrett podcast with Doug Polk on Sept 21? What he said about the biggest scam in his life is home game.. he lost 150k and didn't pay or get the money back.. I feel like he has heard what happend from Andy on Friday in huslter and what he said is exactly describing the home game scenario she or most people are facing. Why no one call Garrett scammer ?

    So are you saying that it is justifiable that Live at the bike tried to convey to public that Andy is a nice and innocent guy who got scammed by a dishonest bitch? This is obviously the story they want to tell the public because they release the video about Andy talking about her but cut the part where she tried to defend herself

    Here are the questions that I m sure most people are wondering
    1. Why would Andy loan money to a complete stranger whom he has seen only twice? They are not even friends . How can you call it friendship when they have only seen each other twice. Come on don't tell me you are that innocent.
    2. She has lost over 50k of her own money in 2 days. Andy did not mention that. If a player has lost thst much money in a home game, taking 30 days to repay a debt is not something unacceptable. I have another friend who runs home game says usually they give players 3 months to repay a debt especially they have been losing money.



    Quote Originally Posted by JeffDime View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by vicky1234 View Post
    Me and her friend who played on stream before decide to expose everything on Friday on their live show just because we can no longer stand how shameless this casino and Andy is

    Vicky, this is not a comment on what you are alleging. From the outside it is clear that Live at the Bike has had a few rough months. Andy has been the #2 draw (Although a distance 2nd behind Garrett) for these LA High Stakes livestreams for years now. The streams are on delay and even sometimes completely pre-recorded. So just a heads up, it is very unlikely that any rebuttal discussion regarding Andy will actually make air on Live at the Bike’s Youtube stream imho.

    I understand there are two sides to every story. The speculation here is based on being around gambling my whole adult life and seeing how loans/debts are handled in general. I look forward to Jenny making her statement here. Never been my intent to pre judge. The whole thing was weird and fascinating. That’s why people are intrigued.

    The only other point I would make is sometimes it's the smaller amounts that end up being the most messy. It really doesn't matter the net worth of someone, the amount the may have loaned out in the past or how much they may have been burned in the past.

    Usually other circumstances can determine how a particular loan/debt is treated. I have seen what seemed like good friendships dissolve over what seemed to be a small amount of money. When people are gambling high stakes, economic circumstances can change in a matter of minutes.
    Last edited by vicky1234; 09-23-2021 at 12:19 PM.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by vicky1234 View Post
    they didn't let me go. So I m just going to say in their live chat today. The players who play today, if u see them on Live chat, they can back up what I said is true.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Also, vicky, are you saying that you are going on Live at the Bike on Friday to expose what is going on? That will be very interesting viewing, to say the least!

  13. #33
    Gold JeffDime's Avatar
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    @Vicky I said nothing of the sort. I said that I don’t think LATB will air any stuff about Andy. That’s just my own opinion. Also, in general any justification regarding not paying a debt in a timely manner that involves the lender’s financial status, past loans, how many chips on the table etc…will not be accepted by a majority of the gambling community.

    If Savage could not pay in a timely fashion because of financial hardship, I would suggest she simply state that. But that’s all I’m going to say regarding the matter right now. I am trying to be as diplomatic as possible. I would like to see this resolved. Not here for blood.

    Just on the cheating aspect…that’s certainly does go on in home games and I have no idea what the story was at this one. However, if there was cheating and Andy did not know and was not the beneficiary, then it’s not right for him to bear the burden either.
    Last edited by JeffDime; 09-23-2021 at 01:08 PM.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by vicky1234 View Post
    Did you guys watch Garrett podcast with Doug Polk on Sept 21? What he said about the biggest scam in his life is home game.. he lost 150k and didn't pay or get the money back.. I feel like he has heard what happend from Andy on Friday in huslter and what he said is exactly describing the home game scenario she or most people are facing. Why no one call Garrett scammer ?

    So are you saying that it is justifiable that Live at the bike tried to convey to public that Andy is a nice and innocent guy who got scammed by a dishonest bitch? This is obviously the story they want to tell the public because they release the video about Andy talking about her but cut the part where she tried to defend herself

    Here are the questions that I m sure most people are wondering
    1. Why would Andy loan money to a complete stranger whom he has seen only twice? They are not even friends . How can you call it friendship when they have only seen each other twice. Come on don't tell me you are that innocent.
    2. She has lost over 50k of her own money in 2 days. Andy did not mention that. If a player has lost thst much money in a home game, taking 30 days to repay a debt is not something unacceptable. I have another friend who runs home game says usually they give players 3 months to repay a debt especially they have been losing money.



    Quote Originally Posted by JeffDime View Post


    Vicky, this is not a comment on what you are alleging. From the outside it is clear that Live at the Bike has had a few rough months. Andy has been the #2 draw (Although a distance 2nd behind Garrett) for these LA High Stakes livestreams for years now. The streams are on delay and even sometimes completely pre-recorded. So just a heads up, it is very unlikely that any rebuttal discussion regarding Andy will actually make air on Live at the Bikeís Youtube stream imho.

    I understand there are two sides to every story. The speculation here is based on being around gambling my whole adult life and seeing how loans/debts are handled in general. I look forward to Jenny making her statement here. Never been my intent to pre judge. The whole thing was weird and fascinating. Thatís why people are intrigued.

    The only other point I would make is sometimes it's the smaller amounts that end up being the most messy. It really doesn't matter the net worth of someone, the amount the may have loaned out in the past or how much they may have been burned in the past.

    Usually other circumstances can determine how a particular loan/debt is treated. I have seen what seemed like good friendships dissolve over what seemed to be a small amount of money. When people are gambling high stakes, economic circumstances can change in a matter of minutes.

    It's starts around the 1 hour and 20 minute mark of the Doug Polk podcast. Garrett told a story about years ago, when he was playing a private home game with his own money, lost $150k, analyzed the situation after the fact and felt there was cheating by the person running the home game + that person's friend + the dealer. As such, at a later date, Garrett met privately with them and demanded a return of his own money. And his money was returned to him. Garrett did not stiff anyone, did not fail to repay anyone, and did not play poker with someone else's money.

    I too like everyone else on PFA remain open minded and want to hear all of the facts, but Garrett's story does not sound anything like what happened between Andy Stacks and Savage.

    Just my opinion of course.

     
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      JeffDime: +1

  15. #35
    I highly doubted if they will ever return the money to Garrett. I have never seen a home game that returns the money to the player under any circumstance. What if Andy stack is the organizer of the game that she got cheated on?


    Quote Originally Posted by JoeD View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by vicky1234 View Post
    Did you guys watch Garrett podcast with Doug Polk on Sept 21? What he said about the biggest scam in his life is home game.. he lost 150k and didn't pay or get the money back.. I feel like he has heard what happend from Andy on Friday in huslter and what he said is exactly describing the home game scenario she or most people are facing. Why no one call Garrett scammer ?

    So are you saying that it is justifiable that Live at the bike tried to convey to public that Andy is a nice and innocent guy who got scammed by a dishonest bitch? This is obviously the story they want to tell the public because they release the video about Andy talking about her but cut the part where she tried to defend herself

    Here are the questions that I m sure most people are wondering
    1. Why would Andy loan money to a complete stranger whom he has seen only twice? They are not even friends . How can you call it friendship when they have only seen each other twice. Come on don't tell me you are that innocent.
    2. She has lost over 50k of her own money in 2 days. Andy did not mention that. If a player has lost thst much money in a home game, taking 30 days to repay a debt is not something unacceptable. I have another friend who runs home game says usually they give players 3 months to repay a debt especially they have been losing money.



    It's starts around the 1 hour and 20 minute mark of the Doug Polk podcast. Garrett told a story about years ago, when he was playing a private home game with his own money, lost $150k, analyzed the situation after the fact and felt there was cheating by the person running the home game + that person's friend + the dealer. As such, at a later date, Garrett met privately with them and demanded a return of his own money. And his money was returned to him. Garrett did not stiff anyone, did not fail to repay anyone, and did not play poker with someone else's money.

    I too like everyone else on PFA remain open minded and want to hear all of the facts, but Garrett's story does not sound anything like what happened between Andy Stacks and Savage.

    Just my opinion of course.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by vicky1234 View Post
    I highly doubted if they will ever return the money to Garrett. I have never seen a home game that returns the money to the player under any circumstance. What if Andy stack is the organizer of the game that she got cheated on?

    Definitely why I keep an open mind. We don't yet know the entire story.

  17. #37
    Gold JeffDime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vicky1234 View Post
    I highly doubted if they will ever return the money to Garrett. I have never seen a home game that returns the money to the player under any circumstance. What if Andy stack is the organizer of the game that she got cheated on?

    Very strong accusation and basically a 0% chance of a confession or proof…if that’s the road that we are headed down. Pretty much FUBAR if that’s where it goes.

  18. #38
    I m sure Garrett has no proof that he is being cheated or scammed. He just use social media as a threat to get his money back. Almost all players who have played on stream has been recruited by Andy Stacks to the home game. I have been recruited by him before too. Running illegal home game is a criminal offense, I m sure that if they decide to press charges it just means there is enough evidence to move forward. Someone has to take the blame right? People are going to sell each other out to protect themselves. Again it's only my personal opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffDime View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by vicky1234 View Post
    I highly doubted if they will ever return the money to Garrett. I have never seen a home game that returns the money to the player under any circumstance. What if Andy stack is the organizer of the game that she got cheated on?

    Very strong accusation and basically a 0% chance of a confession or proof…if that’s the road that we are headed down. Pretty much FUBAR if that’s where it goes.
    Last edited by vicky1234; 09-23-2021 at 01:15 PM.

  19. #39
    Gold JeffDime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vicky1234 View Post
    I m sure Garrett has no proof that he is being cheated or scammed. He just use social media as a threat to get his money back. Almost all players who have played on stream has been recruited by Andy Stacks to the home game. I have been recruited by him before too. Running illegal home game is a criminal offense, I m sure that if they decide to press charges it just means there is enough evidence to move forward. Someone has to take the blame right? People are going to sell each other out to protect themselves. Again it's only my personal opinion.
    Might as well throw the kitchen sink at this point.

     
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      JoeD:

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by vicky1234 View Post
    Why no one call Garrett scammer ?

    2. She has lost over 50k of her own money in 2 days. Andy did not mention that. If a player has lost thst much money in a home game, taking 30 days to repay a debt is not something unacceptable. I have another friend who runs home game says usually they give players 3 months to repay a debt especially they have been losing money.
    [/QUOTE]

    As other have said, it’s really hard to give a good answer until Jenny gives her side of the story...

    Based on what you are saying it appears that she believes she was cheated at the home game. When you agree to play in a home game, especially one where you are not very familiar with the people hosting it, your odds of getting cheated vs. playing in a regulated casino/card room, the chances of being cheated in that home game go up 100 fold or more. It’s a massive increase. The person hosting the game 100% controls the environment. There are so many devices out there that can effectively cheat players and can be every difficult to spot. Playing in a home game is a risk you take. For the average player it’s hard enough to beat the rake, add cheating to that and your doomed.

    Here is the thing with a home game, you may know in your mind you were cheated but have no way to prove it. If you notice cheating you have to call it out right then an there. At whatever point she suspected cheating, why didn’t she stop then? Why wait until you have lost everything? Unfortunately saying “ I was cheated, I’m not paying” is not good enough for the public to buy it. They want PROOF. Which I get it, most cases it’s virtually impossible to supply proof. Like Mike Postle, we all know he cheated but don’t have a smoking gun outside of being statistically improbable to the sum of 1 in 10 million lifetimes.

    It was mentioned before that she told Andy, she had someone send a wire transfer from China. If she actually told him this, then at a later date said, “I’m not paying, I was cheated”, It doesn’t look good.

    As far as the quote above (item #2), normally when you loan someone money at the casino, it should be because they didn’t bring a large enough bank roll, so they need to be spotted just for that session. Normally if someone is just “friendly” with someone they are not going to loan them money if they “Need time to pay”. They may do this for a close friend but not someone they are occasionally friendly with. As far as giving someone 90 days to pay is excessive to me. The timeframe of them paying you back shouldn’t have anything to do with whether they won or lost.

    The bottom line is if she simply comes out and says I’m not paying the 16k because I was cheated, she is going to have a really hard time convincing people that cheating took place without evidence. Unfortunately this is a risk you take at a home game. Then from there it’s up to Andy how he wants to proceed. My advice is stay away from home games unless you know exactly who you are playing with. It looks like in this situation if she cares what people think about her, it’s going to cost her 16k.






    Remember the more money there is to be made the more advanced these cheating schemes become. There are cheating schemes that begin long before a player even gets to the home game. They are out at card rooms/ casinos looking for a “mark”. They become friendly with them. They may dedicate months to a single person to where they feel comfortable going to a home game where they may get the mark for 6 figures overtime before they realized they were duped.


    I posted these awhile back, but they show the lengths people will go to cheat at home games...








     
    Comments
      
      JeffDime: +1
      
      shoeshine box: spot om, work on a guy a year before relieving him of 6-7 figures.
    Last edited by PositiveVariance; 09-23-2021 at 05:01 PM.

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