Mason Malmuth stupidly posts never-before-seen emails between him and Pokernews involving trying to cover up Sklansky/Hawkbaker story

[jsearles22]

for real? and micon was ok with this because it was a free speech site? What would Druff do today if that same issue arose on PFA? Is this a 100% free speech site or are there lines that cannot be crossed?

we dont have this problem at www.stockamets.com oh wait i guess its not a free speech site at all lmao

Speaking of creepy old fat fucks who run forums. What’s up Sonatine?

[Kalam]

were you in fact responsible for the inbredsue website as it was suggested?

That Sue shit remains one of the more haunting images I've ever seen. I guess 4Dragons being a pedo is just as bad but man, Sklansky going after a mentally ill child is the nadir of poker forum debauchery.

Showering with a parrot pic is also haunting somehow.

I remember a long time ago on 2+2 some random woman Sklansky had a relationship with did an AMA detailing their relationships. If I remember correctly it was an extremely popular thread and was on the site a long time before it got taken down.

If I remember correctly she said Sklansky had a giant weiner, there was S&M involved, and she was several decades younger than him (although legal the whole time?).

I think it is fairly safe to say that Sklansky is a freak and a very weird dude, and it is interesting how in the last 10 years our social mores have shifted so much that something that was treated as lighthearted fun even 10 years ago is now beyond the pale.

[dwai]

jsearles22 firing SHOTS at sonatine tonight

[Dan Druff]

Mason PMing me now on 2+2.

Is this real life??

[Crowe Diddly]

[Jayjami]

Brother what do you mean: “ then he had a mentally handicapped young girl named Sue living with him. He admitted to having a sexual relationship with both girls” young girl!!??

Lol. Literally everybody in poker knows this to be true.

[Dan Druff]

That Sue shit remains one of the more haunting images I've ever seen. I guess 4Dragons being a pedo is just as bad but man, Sklansky going after a mentally ill child is the nadir of poker forum debauchery.

Showering with a parrot pic is also haunting somehow.

I remember a long time ago on 2+2 some random woman Sklansky had a relationship with did an AMA detailing their relationships. If I remember correctly it was an extremely popular thread and was on the site a long time before it got taken down.

If I remember correctly she said Sklansky had a giant weiner, there was S&M involved, and she was several decades younger than him (although legal the whole time?).

I think it is fairly safe to say that Sklansky is a freak and a very weird dude, and it is interesting how in the last 10 years our social mores have shifted so much that something that was treated as lighthearted fun even 10 years ago is now beyond the pale.

I'm the last one to defend today's hypersensitive "victim" culture, but the truth is that Sklansky seems to engage in a pattern of taking advantage of young/vulnerable girls.

As I've said many times before, I don't care if Sklansky wants to date much younger women, even if it's 100% clear that the woman is using him for money, and he's using her for sex. That's between two consenting adults, and both get something out of it.

However, his pattern seems much more exploitational, not typically situations where two stable adults knowingly make an arrangement.

It was incredibly hypocritical for Mason to constantly posture as the poker moral police ("NWP is a sick enterprise that degenerates pahticipate in... a cancer to our industry"), when his main author and close busiess partner was engaging in such behavior.

[Dan Druff]

The thread is going predictably horribly for Mason.

On a side note, the new Russian owners have basically left the building. Their last post was on August 8, and they've been completely absent for the past 11 days.

They don't seem to give a shit what happens to the site. They probably bought it for the SEO value and the e-mail list, and they likely don't care what happens to the site.

Wil be interesting to see what 2+2 turns into within a year.

[haleylh]

The Emails

The e-mails were between Mason Malmuth, Tony Guoga ("Tony G"), and John Caldwell, in early March 2008, just after Micon had posted the David e-mails to Brandi, and posted commentary on them.

Mason apparently wrote to Pokernews in attempt to force them to take the story down!

We don't get to see the first e-mail Mason wrote to Tony G, but Mason described it today.




Mason then responded to Tony G:

It's a hate site, and Micon and Druff are the ones leading the hate charge.

You need to clean it up.

MM

Here's the rest of the e-mails:

From: Mason Malmuth
Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 11:49 PM
To: tony guoga

Subject: Re: NeverWinPoker

Hi Tony:

Thanks for getting back to me. I have met John before and he has a good reputation, so I agree that's a good person to consult with. Now let me be a little more specific addressing the problem.

Simply put, Micon knows that the stories about David are not true. He is pretending to expose a wrong that he knows does not exist. It will become obvious that his accusations are nonsense when we release specific information about David and Sue which we plan to do in the near future. But we are not going to dignify Micon and www.neverwinpoker.com by offering explanations to him and dealing with him in any direct way since Mr. Micon is the problem.

As for Two Plus Two, there is nothing "wrong" at our site. I asked David to stop posting for a few days because he was under extreme stress due to your people making fun of those in his family, I was not happy with the accusations that there was something seriously wrong with him -- we have been working together for over 20 years and if there was any sort of problem I would be the first to know, and I was also totally disgusted with thefilth that had entered www.twoplustwo.com via the Never Win Poker people.

Also, for your information the two people I included on the cc list are Mat Sklansky, David's son, who is the general manager of our company and who also is in charge of all moderation on www.twoplustwo.com, and [redacted] who is our marketing director and who also works closely with Mat on many issues inside our company.

Best wishes,

Mason Malmuth
Owner and Publisher
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
www.twoplustwo.com

From: John Caldwell
To: Mason Malmuth
Date: March 7, 2008

I try to stay out of NWP things, but this is something that needs to be addressed, and addressed now. I will speak to Micon today, and resolve it.

From: Mason Malmith
To: John Caldwell
Date: March 7, 2008

Hi John:

Thanks for getting back to me. If you would like to talk, our office number is, and my cell number is XXX. I'm usually in and out of our office, but am able to answer my cell most of the time. I'm also up very late.

Again, I want to emphasize that www.neverwinpoker.com is simply a hate site (that masquerades under the pretension of no censorship) and that this Micon person is the problem.

For instance, when Micon writes in his latest blurb at the top of the home page: "The guy that started inbredsue.com (please make it more topical) has done this piece on David Sklansky's Sue."

it is nothing but hate, and serves no other purpose. Also, when they state we are doing massive bannings, there's no truth in that. The only people banned related to this issue from www.twoplustwo.com are Micon and Druff, and some gimmick accounts that came on our site just to cause problems.

(There were a couple of people mistakenly banned as associates of neverwin.com who were quickly reinstated.)

Best wishes,
Mason

From: John Caldwell
To: Mason Malmuth
Date: March 14, 2008

I tried to create a solution here, but the solution I desired was not possible.

Ultimately, it came down to this. PokerNews has a financial stake in NWP, but the deal with them specifically states that they have 'complete creative control'. I tried to inject some common sense into said 'control', but Iwas not successful.

You will note that we have removed PN branding from NWP, and removed Tony's face from the site. His name will also be removed.

It's no secret I was not a fan of this deal, and in fact I was never consulted. I'm not sure what else I can do here, except to try to facilitate some type of solution between you and Brian.

You can see these posted at: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...times-1794373/

However, note that they are a bit hard to follow on 2+2 due to how Mason posted them, so I cleaned them up for readabilty (without removing/editing any content).

I don't post here often any more, but I'll verify and a few details. I was Caldwell's assistant editor at the time and he shared with me what was going on regarding Mason's attempts to censor NWP. For what it's worth, some of that stuff on NWP was in very, very poor taste. I remember the 'Nazi' photoshop well.

Anyhow, after John told Mason that there was nothing he or Tony could do regarding the content on NWP, John updated me on the situation. John was going on vacation just after this shitstorm from Mason occurred, so John shared a couple of those emails with me. It was not quite the end of it. Mason kept emailing John and must've have received one or more of those "out of office" auto-replies. So he looked for someone else at PN to try to badger about the situation and... that turned out to be me. I'd already received the heads-up about the mess from John, and I told Mason the same thing -- nothing I could do. (NWP had content control. Micon was the driving force behind the "free speech" x-rated stuff, and while it's true Druff could have perhaps pushed a little harder on a couple of things, Micon would have restored anything and everything anti-Mason anyway. Mason never understood that there are things in this world he can't censor, and he never will.)

This was the first contact I'd ever had with Mason and to him I was a nobody. (I probably still am; I couldn't give a fuck what he thinks, never have.) But I became to Mason a person who wouldn't do what he wanted, so I was on his enemies list. That led Mason to falsely attack me when a couple of other situations came up a few years later, long after my PN days. He never quite had the balls to ban me from 2+2, though I'm sure he considered it, and I even tried to goad him into that once or twice as a form of poker-community service.

But as John said way back then, Mason was probably taken aback that I wouldn't simply back down to him and do his bidding, as if I even could in that spot. His ego demanded retribution. So he hates me, too, but not nearly to the extent he hates Druff. I've sent Mason's imperious BS right back to him in every way I can, and I push back in my snarky ways as well. He's invariably "Malmouth" instead of "Malmuth" if I have to mention him on Twitter, for example -- it's oddly fitting and I'm just childish enough to use that -- and I have no respect whatsoever for the man. I think he's just horrible. Sklansky is weird. Mason is noxious. Good goddamn riddance.

Ahh, the Brandi Hawbaker stuff. That was just tragic. I think the poker community at large shares a little blame for that, and that includes both the NWP and 2+2 forums. I think she was seen by most people back then as a not-very-skilled player who luckboxed a big score and had parlayed that into her metaphorical 15 minutes of fame. That led to a lot of light-hearted barbs where Brandi was the target, and I even tossed off one or two of those myself. She was a golddigger of sorts and that shouldn't be sugarcoated. But then the sordid stuff came out, first with Captain Tom (IIRC) and then the really threatening stuff from Sklansky, and it went downhill fast. She clearly had real issues, and at the end what the worst of the forum posters on both sites (including some Sklansky fanboys) posted just made me sick to my stomach. They wanted blood and they got it. IMO, the threats from Sklansky were the real trigger and he never really had to answer for that. But some of us don't forget, and it never really goes away.

[Dan Druff]

Thanks for the new information, Haley. I had no idea that you were on the receiving end of Mason's vitriol regarding NWP back in March '08.

Funny how many things I've learned over the past day about that situation, despite it occurring 13 1/2 years ago.

You're right that NWP was frequently vulgar, and some users there would push the envelope as far as they could. While I was (and still am) a big proponent of free speech forums, I felt the site needed a few more rules than it had, but Micon wouldn't hear of it.

However, when Pokernews got rid of NWP in late 2009, and allowed us to move all of the forum content over to Donkdown, I was able to convince Micon that we should tone down some of the super-offensive content. I told him that we should make a rule against vulgarity for the sake of vulgarity, and he semi-agreed to this. That's why Donkdown was never nearly as vulgar as NWP, and why Donkdown was able to get a media pass at WSOP, after NWP had been denied the previous year. We basically sold it as a similar but somewhat cleaner version of NWP. I had more power on Donkdown than I did on NWP, because I was an actual owner at that point, rather than just a moderator. I have tightened the rules even further on PFA while trying to still maintain a free speech atmosphere.

Glad to see you here again, even if it's just a brief cameo.

I do hope that David and Mason finally have to stand up and answer for what happened back then, as both skated away from the situation far too lightly.

[Sloppy Joe]

Thanks for the new information, Haley. I had no idea that you were on the receiving end of Mason's vitriol regarding NWP back in March '08.

Funny how many things I've learned over the past day about that situation, despite it occurring 13 1/2 years ago.

You're right that NWP was frequently vulgar, and some users there would push the envelope as far as they could. While I was (and still am) a big proponent of free speech forums, I felt the site needed a few more rules than it had, but Micon wouldn't hear of it.

However, when Pokernews got rid of NWP in late 2009, and allowed us to move all of the forum content over to Donkdown, I was able to convince Micon that we should tone down some of the super-offensive content. I told him that we should make a rule against vulgarity for the sake of vulgarity, and he semi-agreed to this. That's why Donkdown was never nearly as vulgar as NWP, and why Donkdown was able to get a media pass at WSOP, after NWP had been denied the previous year. We basically sold it as a similar but somewhat cleaner version of NWP. I had more power on Donkdown than I did on NWP, because I was an actual owner at that point, rather than just a moderator. I have tightened the rules even further on PFA while trying to still maintain a free speech atmosphere.

Glad to see you here again, even if it's just a brief cameo.

I do hope that David and Mason finally have to stand up and answer for what happened back then, as both skated away from the situation far too lightly.

Brother Mason is this true?

[nunbeater]

lol mason locked the thread up

we did it boyz

[Dan Druff]

lol mason locked the thread up

we did it boyz

Guess we're not going to hear about the other 3 times I was banned.

[zealanddonk]

This thread needs more vibrator in the glovebox references.

[shoeshine box]

Mason PMing me now on 2+2.

Is this real life??

I'll bite...Please share.

known him 20+yrs. this a first.

[Dan Druff]

Obviously there's still some moderation going on there.

The thread was locked, plus an Elvis meme I posted, reading, "The New Russian Owners... Have Left the Building" was deleted from the thread started by the new owners. Why was that removed? It was harmless, and also happens to be true (no posts from them in 12 days).

They haven't been clear who is moderating the place now, and which rules are being enforced. Funny that all the anti-Mason and anti-Sklansky stuff stays up, yet a harmless meme gets deleted. Funny that an embarrassing thread started by Mason gets locked, but not removed. Did Mason lock his own thread? Did some other mod lock it to protect him from himself?

So weird.

[ftpjesus]

Mason PMing me now on 2+2.

Is this real life??

Considering how he’s being destroyed on 2+2 he’s probably trying to negotiate a truce. His ass can’t handle the reaming he’s getting. That thread has to be the funniest shit I’ve read in awhile on there and watching Mason getting handed a whipping is just so awesome.

[ftpjesus]

Obviously there's still some moderation going on there.

The thread was locked, plus an Elvis meme I posted, reading, "The New Russian Owners... Have Left the Building" was deleted from the thread started by the new owners. Why was that removed? It was harmless, and also happens to be true (no posts from them in 12 days).

They haven't been clear who is moderating the place now, and which rules are being enforced. Funny that all the anti-Mason and anti-Sklansky stuff stays up, yet a harmless meme gets deleted. Funny that an embarrassing thread started by Mason gets locked, but not removed. Did Mason lock his own thread? Did some other mod lock it to protect him from himself?

So weird.

I’d lean more likely it was the later if they were trying to mod to protect Mason they would’ve killed the thread. They left it there leaving Masons temper tantrums for all to see but just put a stop to it because Mason was getting smashed buy those disturbed not only by Masons comments in the thread but many whove had issues with his BS in general over the years.

[BCR]

It’s a testament to American Capitalism that Mason is a multi-millionaire. Truly one of the stupidest smart guys you’ll ever meet. That whole thread displays an amazing lack of self awareness.

[Dan Druff]

BCR is correct about the complete lack of self-awareness on the part of Mason.

The forum users are presently super upset by the full David Sklansky story, as many either weren't aware of it or didn't previously know the worst details. They're further upset that Mason, for all of his moral posturing, was apparently fully aware of everything, and sought to quiet the whole thing down, rather than disassociate with David at the time.

So what is his response to everyone with the pitchforks out?

"Let me tell you why Dan Druff was banned 4 times from 2+2..."

Does he really think the typical user gives a shit about why I was banned four times from the forum, especially given the present discussion topic going on regarding Sklansky's behavior?

It's amazing that Mason would start a thread about this subject (and stupidly includes 2008 e-mails where he defended David), and then doesn't realize that it will go horribly for him.

Mason Malmuth is a walking example of "right place, right time".