BUT LIKE JOSEPH BIDEN HAS SO MUCH FOREIGN EXPERIENCE OR SOMETHING

[Ryan Eisenhower]

Embedded Tweet

https://twitter.com/BloodsareCrips/status/1427401855508811781

[Sanlmar]

It’s been quite a year. What could possibly be next I wonder.

[sonatine]

jokes aside they are starting to gun woman down for not wearing burqas and if the republicans dont exploit this to impose a white nationalist theocracy within the next 4 years, its because they were simply too lazy or incompetent to press the buttons to make it happen.

[sonatine]

OSA: blood of those people are on your hands for electing this fool


you sell fake vax cards you sociopath ghoul.

[Walter Sobchak]

jokes aside they are starting to gun woman down for not wearing burqas and if the republicans dont exploit this to impose a white nationalist theocracy within the next 4 years, its because they were simply too lazy or incompetent to press the buttons to make it happen.

Maybe it’s an example of why race-based nationalism and theocracy are bad ideas.

[Walter Sobchak]

It’s been quite a year. What could possibly be next I wonder.

If it makes you feel any better, plans for an apartheid government by a small white rural minority via disenfranchisement and gerrymandering are in full swing right here at home.

[Daly]

The only “good” thing that comes from any of this is they will set up a government and a capital. They aren’t running and hiding in the mountains anymore. Now they have something to lose. Now we have a real target if we need to dispense retribution.

Let’s hope it doesn’t come to that. Go ask any 80/90 year olds what they think about Germans and Japanese. It’s all very real hate. Go ask a millennial what they think about Japan and they think if it wasn’t for them we wouldn’t have Anime or a Nintendo.

Hopefully we can get through the next 25 years with a commiserate level of hate that’s short of restarting a war.

[gut]

All this talk of the middle east, and no mention of our real owners? The Saudi's own our dicks. Literally the most privileged person in America is any Saudi national staying here. CRT seems to skip over that fact, but I digress.

Until that relationship is dissolved, all this other talk of middle east stuff is just a dog-and-pony show.

[MumblesBadly]

The Afghanistan invasion had to happen. It was Iraq which was questionable (though much more reasonable at the time than people now think they remember).

As OSA said, after the 9/11 attacks, doing little in Afghanistan would have both looked weak AND enabled a subsequent attack to occur. Clinton tried ignoring the danger from the region in the late 1990s, and look how that turned out for us. At the very least, there needed to be major military action severely weakining al Qaeda, and either forcing the Taliban out of power, or severely damaging them. The Taliban worked hand in hand in support of al Qaeda regarding 9/11.

President George Bush rejected as "non-negotiable" an offer by the Taliban to discuss turning over Osama bin Laden if the United States ended the bombing in Afghanistan.

You know where I’m heading with this. A quick solution to “terrorism” was not really what we were after.

Yes, OSA, there was an element of theater and retribution.

Clinton? Afghanistan in the late 80’s and 90’s? C’mon. Russia, Pakistan, China, India were all in there. Ignore? You’re insane or naive. Nothing was more complicated. The Soviet Fucking Union was in there. No one was ignoring anything. This had WWIII potential to some. I remember the nightly news at the time. There were more criss crossing interests in Afghanistan than anyone could fathom and everyone was deeply concerned here.

Our intelligence at the time of 9/11 had a pretty good sense of the threats but given nothing of the like had ever happened before it was not regarded as seriously as it should have been. Or it was just more incompetence. Ignoring the threat was the most egregious sin.

With the Taliban in place every Jihadist has a safe space now.

You ask Cheney what economic and political reasons were really the motive. Oil traded in Eurodollars not USD was one.

Much of this was 20 years of incompetence. Intelligence community, military and political. It is ending as it started.

You try too hard to find a right side and wrong side. Always pushing the agenda. That is not reality. That is not how the world works.

Let’s be clear here: Team Bush stayed in Afghanistan and built bases there in part because the neocons wanted our forces to be able to attack Iran from all but one side if Iran’s leadership mistakenly gave Team Bush sufficient pretext to use our military to push for a regime change there. Only after Bush realized sometime in 2006 that continuing to stay in Iraq was a lost cause, and canned Cheney’s man at the head of DoD after the midterms that year, did Team Bush probably let go of that fantasy and decide to negotiate in earnest an end to our occupation of Iraq, with Afghanistan a minor concern relative to the ongoing shitstorm in Iraq.

[country978]

The Afghanistan invasion had to happen. It was Iraq which was questionable (though much more reasonable at the time than people now think they remember).

As OSA said, after the 9/11 attacks, doing little in Afghanistan would have both looked weak AND enabled a subsequent attack to occur. Clinton tried ignoring the danger from the region in the late 1990s, and look how that turned out for us. At the very least, there needed to be major military action severely weakining al Qaeda, and either forcing the Taliban out of power, or severely damaging them. The Taliban worked hand in hand in support of al Qaeda regarding 9/11.

It is understandable that the mission to install an alternate government in Afghanistan failed, and that it was destined to fall to the Taliban shortly after we left. So it made sense that we had plans to get out. Trump saw it, Biden saw it, and I don't have an issue with that decision.

It was HOW the withdrawal was done which was botched badly. Even Mumbles sees it. The people making excuses like "We had to leave" or "This was Trump's idea" are missing the point.

Biden even ignored all of his own intellignece people, telling him the drop-everything-and-leave plan was retrarded. He did it anyway.

There also could have been some threats to the Taliban on the way out. Something along the lines of, "We're leaving, but if X and Y happens, we're both coming back and bombing the shit out of you." The Taliban, while ruled by religious extremism, isn't al Qaeda. They have a practical side. They've seen for 20 years what it's like to be out of power, and they don't want it to happen again. Instead, we just peaced out, shrugged our shoulders, called it a failure, and ditched.

Yes, Druff, you are correct; Iraq seemed more "reasonable" in 2003 because we were all fed lies by our own government not because it was actually reasonable. As for the Afghan exit, I do believe things are a little better at the airport now and that things are moving along in a more organized way (or so we've been told). Maybe you expected the Afghans to throw us a party on the way out? They should've lined the streets of Kabul with adoring fans of the American war machine and thrown chocolates and blown kisses? I don't trust Mr Biden to get us out of there as safely and as honorably as we can but I do trust the boys and girls on the ground there to do that and so too should you. They know what's at stake and they know what the true cost of this war has been. I stopped watching MSM news right after the election. I became disgusted by it and so I do not know if Biden's people actually said his plan was retarded or not. What I do know is that President Trump and Biden deserve our gratitude for doing what Mr Obama so badly failed to do. The optics are/were bad yes but everyone is aware of that now and I believe/hope the worst is behind us. IMHO it is not fair to put the blame on the current president.

Biden just isn't good at foreign policy. Obama wasn't, either. We've seen it with China, we've seen it with Mexico, we've seen it with Iran, and now we're seeing it here.

[Sanlmar]

President George Bush rejected as "non-negotiable" an offer by the Taliban to discuss turning over Osama bin Laden if the United States ended the bombing in Afghanistan.

You know where I’m heading with this. A quick solution to “terrorism” was not really what we were after.

Yes, OSA, there was an element of theater and retribution.

Clinton? Afghanistan in the late 80’s and 90’s? C’mon. Russia, Pakistan, China, India were all in there. Ignore? You’re insane or naive. Nothing was more complicated. The Soviet Fucking Union was in there. No one was ignoring anything. This had WWIII potential to some. I remember the nightly news at the time. There were more criss crossing interests in Afghanistan than anyone could fathom and everyone was deeply concerned here.

Our intelligence at the time of 9/11 had a pretty good sense of the threats but given nothing of the like had ever happened before it was not regarded as seriously as it should have been. Or it was just more incompetence. Ignoring the threat was the most egregious sin.

With the Taliban in place every Jihadist has a safe space now.

You ask Cheney what economic and political reasons were really the motive. Oil traded in Eurodollars not USD was one.

Much of this was 20 years of incompetence. Intelligence community, military and political. It is ending as it started.

You try too hard to find a right side and wrong side. Always pushing the agenda. That is not reality. That is not how the world works.

Let’s be clear here: Team Bush stayed in Afghanistan and built bases there in part because the neocons wanted our forces to be able to attack Iran from all but one side if Iran’s leadership mistakenly gave Team Bush sufficient pretext to use our military to push for a regime change there. Only after Bush realized sometime in 2006 that continuing to stay in Iraq was a lost cause, and canned Cheney’s man at the head of DoD after the midterms that year, did Team Bush probably let go of that fantasy and decide to negotiate in earnest an end to our occupation of Iraq, with Afghanistan a minor concern relative to the ongoing shitstorm in Iraq.

That was a late night post. I think we are on the same page.

OBL and Al Quaeda was just a pretext. Again, we were offered OBL by the Taliban and we weren’t too eager. There was a longer game.

Cheney seized the 9/11 opportunity and getting OBL quickly was a bad outcome.

Yeah, they were NeoCons.

[country978]

Yes, Druff, you are correct; Iraq seemed more "reasonable" in 2003 because we were all fed lies by our own government not because it was actually reasonable. As for the Afghan exit, I do believe things are a little better at the airport now and that things are moving along in a more organized way (or so we've been told). Maybe you expected the Afghans to throw us a party on the way out? They should've lined the streets of Kabul with adoring fans of the American war machine and thrown chocolates and blown kisses? I don't trust Mr Biden to get us out of there as safely and as honorably as we can but I do trust the boys and girls on the ground there to do that and so too should you. They know what's at stake and they know what the true cost of this war has been. I stopped watching MSM news right after the election. I became disgusted by it and so I do not know if Biden's people actually said his plan was retarded or not. What I do know is that President Trump and Biden deserve our gratitude for doing what Mr Obama so badly failed to do. The optics are/were bad yes but everyone is aware of that now and I believe/hope the worst is behind us. IMHO it is not fair to put the blame on the current president.

[nightmarefish]

[Sanlmar]

Some reporter needs to camp their ass outside the Cheney household and get a comment on recent events. History demands it.

I don’t know what condition he’s in. He can tap the answers out on a bell like a scene from Breaking Bad.

[MumblesBadly]

More proof of that the Trump-led GOP is trying is play both sides of this issue.

[country978]

More proof of that the Trump-led GOP is trying is play both sides of this issue.

If ever there were a time for President Trump to act with a little grace and deference this would've been the one to benefit him the most. He did a great job with Afghanistan and deserves credit where credit is due. He should be supporting Mr Biden in carrying out his policy and congradulating himself and Biden for finishing the job. These events reflect on his legacy too. There were 2,500 troops in country when he left office. Biden actually surged that number to carry out the evacuation. I can understand how one would be critical of Biden I just do not agree. The brunt of our anger and frustration over this should be directed towards Obama IMO

[OSA]

When, not if, there is another major terrorism event on US soil, I guaranfuckingtee that this event will be the building blocks for whomever group will be responsible.

The Afghans were ridiculously primitive and 20 years did nothing to help dig themselves out of the 16th century. We have 100 military basis in 70 countries. There was no reason after closing a bunch in Iraq, that we couldn't continue in Afghanistan. The fact that in 1 month, Taliban control went from 22% to 98% is a testament to how illiterate and unknowledgeable they were. Either the Americans couldn't train them properly or didn't want to. The strategy doesn't seem like it was to make them self sufficient, rather relying on American help for every fucking thing. Biden must have recognized this and the fact that he went through with this is even more heinous.

Either way as they say in Yiddish, its a shanda.

[Walter Sobchak]

All this talk of the middle east, and no mention of our real owners? The Saudi's own our dicks. Literally the most privileged person in America is any Saudi national staying here. CRT seems to skip over that fact, but I digress.

Until that relationship is dissolved, all this other talk of middle east stuff is just a dog-and-pony show.

This is one of many reasons we should be putting more effort into our push to be carbon neutral ASAP. Wind, solar, nuclear, hydro, eventually fusion.

[sonatine]

i am not optimistic about the near term stability of kabul.

[MumblesBadly]

Holy FUCK! Biden pulled a Trump in answering George Stephanopolis questions in the interview clip covered in the CNN report from a few hours ago.