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Thread: Mason Malmuth has sold 2+2

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Six pages of people fellating Mason, in response to the announcement.

    Not one post asking about the new owners, or discussing the fact that they appear to be Russian.

    Pretty sad. The old 2+2 would have been all over this, and unearthed everything about the new owners by now.
    Who are the Thai hookers in their publicity shot?

  2. #22
    Gold MrTickle's Avatar
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    Name:  396A8D5F-F4EE-4408-917B-40A91634AB24.png
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    Twoplustwo, now owned by Russians, blocks Russian IPs…

     
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      Reveen: lmao

  3. #23
    I think it would be hard to pinpoint what the new owners paid for 2+2. They have already removed all banner ads. Not sure what their plan for revenue is. The new owners said in their introductory post they do not plan to use 2+2 to promote their other site, so I guess time will tell.

    Forum selling prices are intriguing to me. Look at Wizard of odds/Wizard of Vegas, Sold for over 2 million dollars! Now, I realize that site was much more than a forum. For what it’s worth total post there are just under 1 million. 2+2 has
    around 60 million post.

    I would think banner ad’s in the gambling field sell for a premium. However, I would think in a forum based setting where you primarily have the same people visiting the site you would be seeing dimlinishing returns on these ads.

    As far as selling price I have no clue, but I would like to hear what Druff has to say about the selling price.
    Last edited by PositiveVariance; 07-17-2021 at 04:57 AM.

  4. #24
    Shout out to the programmer

    https://www.instagram.com/kieragoetz/

    they only got hacked once or twice that I can remember in all those years.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Sidewinder View Post
    they only got hacked once or twice that I can remember in all those years.
    Better way to phrase it may be that they have been hacked on at least 2 separate occasions that they have had to publicly acnowledge.

  6. #26
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Message from the new owners:

    https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...2-2-a-1792772/

    -----------------


    The new 2+2 owners: Andrew to the left, Max to the right. Thailand, 2019

    A Brand-New Era Begins

    Hello! My name is Andrew, and together with my partner in crime, Max, who is, by the way, a professional high-stakes poker player, we are the new owners of 2+2.
    Just to be clear, I’m a poker pro myself . . . but not as close to the top of the food chain as Max (since I’ve switched to tech).

    We would like to start off with an enormous thank you to Mason and his team. Mason’s work as an author is impressive, and his contribution to popularizing poker worldwide cannot be denied. Undoubtedly, he’s helped to shape pro players for generations to come.

    Now we would like to share the key components of our vision:

    - In the years to come, we are going to build an AI-powered forum platform for the future and host it on twoplustwo.com (instead of forumserver.twoplustwo.com).
    - We don’t intend to make radical changes to the current forum (design, etc.) in the short term. We subscribe to the adage that one needn’t fix what isn’t broken.
    - We’ll focus on building an international community of professional poker players.
    - We’ll also focus on user growth.
    - We’ll furthermore address the problem of strict moderation and bans.
    - We’ll always prioritize user experience over mere profits.

    You may have noticed already, but the banner ads are gone. The reason they are gone is simple: we asked ourselves, “Is this something that helps the community in any way? Is it something that users would need or want?” That said, it wasn’t a very difficult decision. In fact, we bought this website just to take down its banners on the first day

    Other changes are soon to follow. Most of the marketplace forums will become free for everybody, and most of the restrictions that are currently in place will be lifted. The goal is to create something similar to what we currently have with software forums, but for coaching, schools, staking, poker rooms, and other marketplaces.

    We aim to make 2+2 the most powerful and well-recognized community of poker professionals on the internet. We want people who aren’t even familiar with poker to know that the most intelligent community is 2+2. We want Quora to envy our community and realize that what they have is tragically inferior. For that to happen, a lot of work has to be done, and let me tell you: we’re gonna work our asses off twelve hours a day, every day—no holidays—and do so for the foreseeable future. Yes, it’s a battle, and we will be the winners.

    We value live poker players as much as we value online players, and we want all players to enjoy 2+2 for decades to come.

    As I am also a founder of Hand2Note Poker HUD, I would like to clarify that 2+2 will never become a marketing ground for said product. We aren’t going to interfere with our competitors HM/PT.

    We recognize moderators’ enormous value to the community. We know how hard they have to work. With new technologies like machine learning and AI, we will try to greatly decrease the amount of routine (read: boring) tasks that they need to perform, and hopefully, in doing so, we’ll make their lives a little bit better. Max and I have also noted a power mismatch between regular users and moderators/owners. As such, we’re planning to discuss this issue with the community and remedy it however possible. What do you think about unbanning all banned users btw?

    We are going to manually pick users with the most influence on the website and invite them into a private discord channel. However, the public Discord channel is available for everyone and you are welcome to join 2+2 Discord.

    Here are some next vital steps:

    - Remove all banner ads (done).
    - Lift most of the restrictions in our marketplace forums, making them free.
    - Encourage companies, coaches, and others to post about themselves, their products, and their services for free.
    - Gather feedback about the forum and analyze this data.
    - Revise our ban policy.
    - Grow our social network channels.

    Join our social networks to pinpoint the most interesting threads from 2+2 and have a discussion in a relaxed setting:

    - Join 2+2 Facebook group.
    - Follow 2+2 on Twitter.
    - Enter 2+2 Discord Server. I suggest you make the same nickname in Discord as one on this website.
    - Join 2+2 Telegram Channel.

    Let us make important decisions together and forge a brighter future. Go to this topic What would you change on 2+2? and give us your feedback about the website today!

  7. #27
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    On page 7, he responded to some questions:

    -------

    How are you going to pay the bills?
    The current burn rate is about -3k$ per month. We can cover it by taking money for sticky topics in the marketplace forums and/or by our own funds.


    How will you monetize the site?
    In the next few years, monetization will not be our main focus. The focus will be on building a professional poker community for intelligent discussion as well as on growing the user database.

    My vision is to create something people love, make it popular, and money will follow.

    Deals with online gambling operators will be the main source of revenue in the future.

    We won’t sell user emails. We won’t sell any subforums. We will not monetize this site in any other dirty way.


    Do you plan to make any aesthetic changes?
    Yes. For example, update low-quality outdated icons. However, we will keep the current theme and feel.


    Will Discord kill the website?
    We won’t let this happen. People can't have intelligent conversations on Discord over a long period of time, making it less suited to building a professional community.

    Discord is for short live conversations by those who enjoy it.


    Will this site mainly just be a funnel for the discord?
    No worries, no dirty plans regarding 2+2.


    What were your usernames on 2+2 before the acquisition?
    Besides a few posts from our Hand2Note account, I don't recall having written anything except a single post in ~2015. To my knowledge, Maxsym has never posted on 2+2 and he is barely active on social media.


    Are you going to make a mobile version?
    Absolutely. Mobile devices account for at least half of all website visits. The mobile app is a high priority for us.


    I feel like it's more likely he said "offline players" instead of "live players" simply due to english not being his first language?
    Exactly.

  8. #28
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    The "maybe unban everyone" plans are freaking a lot of people out. In particular, the "marketplace" there has/had a lot of scammers which were banned, and people are particularly worried about that.

    The LOL intro photo of these dudes with Thai hookers is hilarious. They were hoping to come off cool via this photo, but it flopped badly.

    Remember I said on radio that Mason was likely losing money on 2+2 forums, and that's why he sold it? We now know that the "burn rate" is $3k per month! I don't know if he means that Mason was losing $3k/month despite the banner ads, or if $3k/month was the overall costs of running the thing. (The banner ads are now gone, so I'm guessing it's the latter.) But LOL at $3k/month. For reference, the cost of running PFA is far less than $3k PER YEAR.

    It looks like affiliate deals will be their source of revenue. My guess is that the new Russian overlords plan to monetize the existing 2+2 traffic/notoriety to drive people to their affiliate deals, and will be improving SEO to help make that happen more efficiently. The "unban everyone" plans are likely to inject it with new content, as the forum has been getting stale, and these dudes don't care about Mason's old beefs or petty past rule violations. Apparently the existing mods are either going to be fired or have their power reduced.

    I love it.

    Keep in mind that NWP was bought by Pokernews specifically to get affiliate revenue. At one point, about $20k/month affiliate revenue was coming in through NWP (under Lithuanian rule). However, I'm sure it was bringing in almost nothing once they jettisoned the forums in late 2009.

    I also have a feeling that they will have affiliate deals with scam/semi-scam sites, and that will likely cause a lot of consternation there.

    Anyone want to test out how committed the new owners really are to free speech?

  9. #29
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    My guess regarding the purchase price is $250k.

    There are pluses and minuses to buying 2p2.

    Pluses:

    - Longstanding major poker forum with name recognition

    - Good SEO opportunities to bring in traffic

    - Huge list of gambling-interested e-mails

    - Repeat visits by many users


    Minues

    - Forums are rapidly dying, and 2+2 is definitely drying up quickly

    - No existing revenue structure, and site is losing money

    - Regular repeat users unlikely to be interested in affiliate deals

    - Userbase may largely abandon site if major changes are made

  10. #30
    - In the years to come, we are going to build an AI-powered forum platform for the future and host it on twoplustwo.com (instead of forumserver.twoplustwo.com).
    Lol what?

    Also - 3k a month to run a forum? Come on - I know its a big forum but one good dedicated server and 1 good outside tech guy is definitely < $1000.

    I don't think 2+2 ever took affiliate deals - which is very different than what Cardplayer did. I heard Cardplayer was making big big bucks on their affiliate deals (assuming they still are).

    I would say 2+2 in prime poker boom was def a several million dollar web property - hard to say now. When it was easier to process deposits in the US market, the sports affiliates + poker affiliates could of been an easy 100k + a month.

    Who knows now.

    250k feels like a steal. Computer generated JPEGS are going for hundreds of thousands of dollars.

  11. #31
    All Sorts of Sports gut's Avatar
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    At least those ladies hands seem to be normal sized.

    One on the left could be iffy though.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    On page 7, he responded to some questions:


    How will you monetize the site?
    The focus will be on building a professional poker community for intelligent discussion.



    NVG:


     
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      Ryback_feed_me_more: Did ya miss the memo that it’s NVGB now unless the owners dumped the books bullshit.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  13. #33
    It's like 4 is doing their own version of Druff's April Fools Day pranks, but real.

  14. #34
    Canadrunk limitles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gut View Post
    At least those ladies hands seem to be normal sized.

    One on the left could be iffy though.
    that’s quite good
    unbounded
    Never Forget



  15. #35
    Canadrunk limitles's Avatar
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    this is nothing like bitcoin futures
    unbounded
    Never Forget



  16. #36
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    BUMP

    People are getting pissed off.

    Hello. Per our initial plan, we have made a few changes to the marketplaces. Most of them are now free of charge and also devoid of restrictions. Moreover, the forum structure has been reorganized and features a new section—“Online Poker Rooms & Marketplaces,” which includes the following subforums:

    - The “Online Poker Rooms” subforum consists of official and non-official poker room threads. If you need to speak with representatives of Poker Stars or some other room, this is where you’ll find them. Any legitimate poker room can start an official thread.
    - The “Coaches & Schools” subforum consists of poker coach listings as well as professional poker schools. Any coach or school can start a thread for free.
    - The “Poker Software” subforum consists of official support threads. You can directly interact with software developers or their representatives. All software developers can now create an official support thread for free. Sticky threads will be provided to those who offer real discounts to 2+2 members.
    - The “Staking” subforum consists of a set of subforums that facilitate offering/selling stakes and the purchase of MTT shares. Here, anyone is free to participate without restrictions. As always, members are advised to use their best judgment and be aware of the risks involved in staking activities.
    - The “General Marketplace” subforum consists of “want to buy/want to sell” listings. All restrictions are lifted here too.

    What do you think about these changes? Please share your thoughts, your feedback is much appreciated.
    https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/5...laces-1793335/

    The "without restrictions" parts are getting people really nervous, as this will invite spammers and scammers.

    Longtime users and mods are just kinda sitting there in disbelief. Looks like Mason just sold out to the Russians, without a care regarding what would happen to his site which pretty much defines his legacy.

    Oh, and apparently those Thai girls are these dudes' wives.

  17. #37
    I think that is an unfair shot to take there Druff

  18. #38
    A big forum topic seemes to have vanished. The internet poker forum also known as the zoo has vanished. I have been on 2 plus 2 since 2010 or so. Months ago I forgot my password and email for recovery was no good. On good terms with bobo so sure I could have been sent a new password but too much of a hassle and not worth it so I just lurk there now.

  19. #39
    Silver The Shrink's Avatar
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    Always disliked Mason Malmuth. Just a totally unlikable, disingenuous, smarmy, humorless curmudgeon. A cancer on this industry, if you will.

    Shortly before he announced the sale of 2+2 he created a thread allowing people to promote their non-2+2-published books (which he previously didn't allow). Some author then made a post about his new book and then Mason replied by taking excerpts of the book and pointing out minor flaws in the prose like he's some kind of world class copy editor. He did something similar when he was in a spat with Jonathan Little by taking excerpts of JL's book and making minor revisions to the prose (mostly tightening up the language). He did this as a way of wielding his power as the almighty book publisher as if to say, "Your book isn't good enough for 2+2." Perhaps he did this knowing he was about to sell 2+2 and wanted to assert his authority one last time.

    Anyways, now that Mason appears to have lost moderation control of 2+2, the chickens are starting to come home to roost. In the thread called "This website has been purchased by us. What is the future of 2+2?", a user named "Spambot - Alpha" showed up and started to bring up David Sklansky's creepy past:

    https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...&postcount=756

    I can't imagine Mason would have tolerated this type of post before the sale of 2+2. Sklansky responds in the thread. He even tries to promote his recently published memoir "Geeking Gambling and Grifting Through Las Vegas" suggesting he explains everything about the Sue and Brandi stuff in the book.

    Mat Sklansky (David's son) makes an appearance with a few cryptic posts. A few mods show up to defend themselves.

    Spambot makes another post with archived links to old sites that explain the Sklansky/Sue/Brandi situation.

    https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...&postcount=827

    Wow, that shit was far more fucked up than I remembered.

    Then Mason returned to post this reply:

    Name:  mason.jpg
Views: 194
Size:  114.9 KB

    I honestly don't understand what he's saying here. If someone can interpret, I would be grateful.

    This is the most interesting thing to happen over at 2+2 in years.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by The Shrink View Post
    Always disliked Mason Malmuth. Just a totally unlikable, disingenuous, smarmy, humorless curmudgeon. A cancer on this industry, if you will.

    Shortly before he announced the sale of 2+2 he created a thread allowing people to promote their non-2+2-published books (which he previously didn't allow). Some author then made a post about his new book and then Mason replied by taking excerpts of the book and pointing out minor flaws in the prose like he's some kind of world class copy editor. He did something similar when he was in a spat with Jonathan Little by taking excerpts of JL's book and making minor revisions to the prose (mostly tightening up the language). He did this as a way of wielding his power as the almighty book publisher as if to say, "Your book isn't good enough for 2+2." Perhaps he did this knowing he was about to sell 2+2 and wanted to assert his authority one last time.

    Anyways, now that Mason appears to have lost moderation control of 2+2, the chickens are starting to come home to roost. In the thread called "This website has been purchased by us. What is the future of 2+2?", a user named "Spambot - Alpha" showed up and started to bring up David Sklansky's creepy past:

    https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...&postcount=756

    I can't imagine Mason would have tolerated this type of post before the sale of 2+2. Sklansky responds in the thread. He even tries to promote his recently published memoir "Geeking Gambling and Grifting Through Las Vegas" suggesting he explains everything about the Sue and Brandi stuff in the book.

    Mat Sklansky (David's son) makes an appearance with a few cryptic posts. A few mods show up to defend themselves.

    Spambot makes another post with archived links to old sites that explain the Sklansky/Sue/Brandi situation.

    https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...&postcount=827

    Wow, that shit was far more fucked up than I remembered.

    Then Mason returned to post this reply:

    Name:  mason.jpg
Views: 194
Size:  114.9 KB

    I honestly don't understand what he's saying here. If someone can interpret, I would be grateful.

    This is the most interesting thing to happen over at 2+2 in years.
    Great recap.

    The early 2+2 poker strategy books made a lot poker players rich, everything since then was pretty much downhill.

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