Welcome to 2001: The mid-high stakes limit holdem scene in LA just shifted casinos

[Dan Druff]

The year was 2001. The limit holdem scene in Los Angeles was bustling. One casino clearly dominated with the action of 20-40 and above. However, this room had become arrogant, dismissive, and unresponsive to player concerns. Players started moving to another room which was attempting to take the mid-high stakes limit holdem action. Within about 2 years, the deed was done. Hollywood Park, the former king of mid-high stakes limit holdem, lost all of that action, and Commerce was the new king.

Commerce built a new high limit structure, with a room upstairs for tournaments. Also constructed was a new Crowne Plaza hotel attached to the property. It was the far superior option to the very ghetto Hollywood Park, which was in a terrible neighborhood, was run down, and was player unfriendly.

Despite lots of dysfunction over the next two decades, Commerce continued to reign supreme.

In the late 2010s, the second biggest LA cardroom -- The Bicycle Club -- attempted to take Commerce's mid-high stakes limit holdem games. They even hired hosts to do so, who were empowered to give away comps such as rooms at their (brand new) hotel.

The action started to move, and The Bike was poised to take Commerce's games. Then, for whatever reason, The Bike also became player-hostile, and these games started to slip. Commerce looked like it was going to hold onto these games.

But then early 2020 came, and COVID hit, closing all cardrooms. When they reopened, somehow Bike regrouped and made a second attempt to capture the action.

This time it was a success. It was the perfect moment for Bike to strike, as all cardrooms were attempting to build post-COVID action. Commerce, instead of responding with aggressive moves of their own to keep their business, just sat by and let things happen.

Here's an example:




Can you believe this shit? People are coming back from a year off live poker, probably lost their card, and Commerce is going to charge them $5 to get one back? And all while Bike is taking Commerce's action? This couldn't be worse timing for such a stupid nickel-and-dime move.


I called both places tonight.

Commerce had no games above 8-16 limit holdem.

The Bike had two 20-40s, two 40-80s, one 60-120, and one 200-400.


Game over, man. Commerce, you did this to yourself.

RIP

[padre33]

The year was 2001. The limit holdem scene in Los Angeles was bustling. One casino clearly dominated with the action of 20-40 and above. However, this room had become arrogant, dismissive, and unresponsive to player concerns. Players started moving to another room which was attempting to take the mid-high stakes limit holdem action. Within about 2 years, the deed was done. Hollywood Park, the former king of mid-high stakes limit holdem, lost all of that action, and Commerce was the new king.

Commerce built a new high limit structure, with a room upstairs for tournaments. Also constructed was a new Crowne Plaza hotel attached to the property. It was the far superior option to the very ghetto Hollywood Park, which was in a terrible neighborhood, was run down, and was player unfriendly.

Despite lots of dysfunction over the next two decades, Commerce continued to reign supreme.

In the late 2010s, the second biggest LA cardroom -- The Bicycle Club -- attempted to take Commerce's mid-high stakes limit holdem games. They even hired hosts to do so, who were empowered to give away comps such as rooms at their (brand new) hotel.

The action started to move, and The Bike was poised to take Commerce's games. Then, for whatever reason, The Bike also became player-hostile, and these games started to slip. Commerce looked like it was going to hold onto these games.

But then early 2020 came, and COVID hit, closing all cardrooms. When they reopened, somehow Bike regrouped and made a second attempt to capture the action.

This time it was a success. It was the perfect moment for Bike to strike, as all cardrooms were attempting to build post-COVID action. Commerce, instead of responding with aggressive moves of their own to keep their business, just sat by and let things happen.

Here's an example:




Can you believe this shit? People are coming back from a year off live poker, probably lost their card, and Commerce is going to charge them $5 to get one back? And all while Bike is taking Commerce's action? This couldn't be worse timing for such a stupid nickel-and-dime move.


I called both places tonight.

Commerce had no games above 8-16 limit holdem.

The Bike had two 20-40s, two 40-80s, one 60-120, and one 200-400.


Game over, man. Commerce, you did this to yourself.

RIP

Played a few sessions with your pal last week. Interesting David Sklansky no longer lives in Vegas, MM was saying he is in NevAda Illinois. Last time I saw him he didn't look well. Years of horse betting will mess you up. Told you about the Bike and I'm super happy with it. Commerce kept showing their greediness and Bike gets the Persian/Armenian action now. A lot of fishes in that pool

[Dan Druff]

Yeah every time I see Skalnsky, he looks sicker and skinnier. Not sure if he's actually suffering from anything daedly, but he's one of those guys I can't really see being around much longer.

Let me know (privately if you want) next time you'll be playing LHE at Bike, and maybe I'll come down.

[Dan Druff]

Commerce's famous high limit room, which was by far the largest high limit poker area in the world, has been shut down and converted to California Games.

They have moved what little remains of middle-stakes games to the ugly main room, and basically conceded the permanent loss of that action to The Bike.

Keep in mind that, pre-COVID, that room was still semi-full, except very late at night when it would die down to a few tables. In the poker boom days, it was so full that they had every single table running for most of the day.

Ironically, it was the construction of that modern-looking, high-ceiling, giant room which crushed Hollywood Park's high limit action, and moved it all to Commerce. Now they've given up on it.

What a rapid descent to the bottom! And while Rome was burning, these morons were printing big notices on their website that they're chaging $5 for replacement players cards.

[Kalam]

Commerce's famous high limit room, which was by far the largest high limit poker area in the world, has been shut down and converted to California Games.

They have moved what little remains of middle-stakes games to the ugly main room, and basically conceded the permanent loss of that action to The Bike.

Keep in mind that, pre-COVID, that room was still semi-full, except very late at night when it would die down to a few tables. In the poker boom days, it was so full that they had every single table running for most of the day.

Ironically, it was the construction of that modern-looking, high-ceiling, giant room which crushed Hollywood Park's high limit action, and moved it all to Commerce. Now they've given up on it.

What a rapid descent to the bottom! And while Rome was burning, these morons were printing big notices on their website that they're chaging $5 for replacement players cards.

FWIW, The high limit room was turning into a ghost town even before Covid. 2018-2019 the room was already half empty (or worse) and they had already started converting poker tables to California games. The Bike, Hawaiian Garden (and Hustler if you count 25-50) had already overtaken Commerce in 20-40 LHE by 2018 I would estimate, but Commerce definitely had most of the 40-80 and up action until the pandemic.

On a given Thursday night in 2019 I would guess Commerce would have 2 20-40 LHE, The Bike would have 3, Gardens would have 3, and Hustler would have 2 25-50 LHE. 15 years ago by comparison Commerce would have had 7-8 20-40 LHE games all by itself and as many 40-80s. I remember during the big tournaments they had so much 40-80 action and above they had to move all the yellow chip out of the room.

[Jayjami]

Commerce's famous high limit room, which was by far the largest high limit poker area in the world, has been shut down and converted to California Games.

They have moved what little remains of middle-stakes games to the ugly main room, and basically conceded the permanent loss of that action to The Bike.

Keep in mind that, pre-COVID, that room was still semi-full, except very late at night when it would die down to a few tables. In the poker boom days, it was so full that they had every single table running for most of the day.

Ironically, it was the construction of that modern-looking, high-ceiling, giant room which crushed Hollywood Park's high limit action, and moved it all to Commerce. Now they've given up on it.

What a rapid descent to the bottom! And while Rome was burning, these morons were printing big notices on their website that they're chaging $5 for replacement players cards.

Amazing. I remember before they built that room, they had a “terrace” in the main room. It was all 9-18 limit hold’em and if you played up there, you were considered a high stakes player, and comped accordingly. Back then they were competing with Hollywood Park, which had a great variety of games in the 90s.

[Dan Druff]

FWIW, The high limit room was turning into a ghost town even before Covid. 2018-2019 the room was already half empty (or worse) and they had already started converting poker tables to California games. The Bike, Hawaiian Garden (and Hustler if you count 25-50) had already overtaken Commerce in 20-40 LHE by 2018 I would estimate, but Commerce definitely had most of the 40-80 and up action until the pandemic.

On a given Thursday night in 2019 I would guess Commerce would have 2 20-40 LHE, The Bike would have 3, Gardens would have 3, and Hustler would have 2 25-50 LHE. 15 years ago by comparison Commerce would have had 7-8 20-40 LHE games all by itself and as many 40-80s. I remember during the big tournaments they had so much 40-80 action and above they had to move all the yellow chip out of the room.

None of this is incorrect, and yes, I remember the CA Games being moved in there, but they still had a fair number of mid-upper stakes games running most of the day. Only late at night did it really die.

And yeah, I remember when the yellow chip (20-40) games moved out of the high limit room in the 2000s, because there wasn't room for them. Now they've been moved out of the high limit room because there's no other games. Amazing difference, but they did it to themselves.

I'd love to talk to the guy who made the decision to charge $5 for card replacements after COVID, and to make that a prominent display on their website.

[Kalam]

I was recently at the Bike and was shooting the shit with an employee I am friendly with I hadn't seen in a couple years (not a high level guy) who mentioned that the Bike actually lost a lot of their low limit action (which in aggregate makes way more than the higher limit action because there is so much more of it) and is actually hurting right now. He said he thought the biggest problem was they got rid of all their tourneys, and a lot of tourney guys play the small no limit and limit games when they bust out. I guess one of the reason they got rid of their tourneys is they have a massive dealer shortage.

Anyways, he said that Hollywood Park is actually making a comeback and picking up a lot of action, and unlike the Bike still running daily tourneys. With the new football stadium revitalizing the areas, there is a non zero chance things come around and that becomes the LA area flagship casino again. I haven't been to Hollywood Park in a couple years, but unless the added on a new wing it seems it is way too small to accommodate very much action. The poker room itself probably has half the capacity the Commerce main room does, not even counting the now defunct high limit room.

[Dan Druff]

I was recently at the Bike and was shooting the shit with an employee I am friendly with I hadn't seen in a couple years (not a high level guy) who mentioned that the Bike actually lost a lot of their low limit action (which in aggregate makes way more than the higher limit action because there is so much more of it) and is actually hurting right now. He said he thought the biggest problem was they got rid of all their tourneys, and a lot of tourney guys play the small no limit and limit games when they bust out. I guess one of the reason they got rid of their tourneys is they have a massive dealer shortage.

Anyways, he said that Hollywood Park is actually making a comeback and picking up a lot of action, and unlike the Bike still running daily tourneys. With the new football stadium revitalizing the areas, there is a non zero chance things come around and that becomes the LA area flagship casino again. I haven't been to Hollywood Park in a couple years, but unless the added on a new wing it seems it is way too small to accommodate very much action. The poker room itself probably has half the capacity the Commerce main room does, not even counting the now defunct high limit room.

Yeah that would be super weird if the 2020s belong to Hollywood Park, after the '00s and the '10s belonged to Commerce, after the '90s belonged to Hollywood Park.

I guess there's no true leader in LA poker anymore. Weird.

[Jayjami]

I was recently at the Bike and was shooting the shit with an employee I am friendly with I hadn't seen in a couple years (not a high level guy) who mentioned that the Bike actually lost a lot of their low limit action (which in aggregate makes way more than the higher limit action because there is so much more of it) and is actually hurting right now. He said he thought the biggest problem was they got rid of all their tourneys, and a lot of tourney guys play the small no limit and limit games when they bust out. I guess one of the reason they got rid of their tourneys is they have a massive dealer shortage.

Anyways, he said that Hollywood Park is actually making a comeback and picking up a lot of action, and unlike the Bike still running daily tourneys. With the new football stadium revitalizing the areas, there is a non zero chance things come around and that becomes the LA area flagship casino again. I haven't been to Hollywood Park in a couple years, but unless the added on a new wing it seems it is way too small to accommodate very much action. The poker room itself probably has half the capacity the Commerce main room does, not even counting the now defunct high limit room.

Yeah that would be super weird if the 2020s belong to Hollywood Park, after the '00s and the '10s belonged to Commerce, after the '90s belonged to Hollywood Park.

I guess there's no true leader in LA poker anymore. Weird.

I’m thinking the games will be good at HP on Sat/Sun with those football crowds.