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Thread: Luka hates Haralabob

  1. #1

    Luka hates Haralabob

    https://theathletic.com/2649806/2021...h-luka-doncic/

    Tldr: Cuban loves Bob and his analytics, therefore Bob has tons of power. Not everyone else loves that, including Luka.

     
    Inside the Mavericks front office, Mark Cuban's shadow GM is causing a rift with Luka Doncic
    In early February, during the second quarter of a home game against the Golden State Warriors, Luka Doncic carelessly turned over the ball and received feedback from a Dallas Mavericks employee he didn’t care for: Haralabos Voulgaris, a well-known sports gambler hired by team owner Mark Cuban in 2018.

    Voulgaris, sitting with an open laptop in his typical courtside seat across from the Mavericks’ bench, motioned downward with his hands, which Doncic specifically interpreted as Voulgaris telling him to calm down, multiple team and league sources tell The Athletic. Doncic snapped back, telling Voulgaris, according to one source’s recollection, “Don’t fucking tell me to calm down.” The same sources say Voulgaris later professed that his motion wasn’t solely directed at Doncic, but regardless of intent, it only worsened an already inflamed relationship between the two.

    Doncic, multiple league sources say, intends to sign the supermax extension — which he will be eligible for once named to this season’s All-NBA team — with Dallas, worth more than $200 million over five seasons after his rookie contract expires next summer. “I think you know the answer,” he said, smiling, when asked whether he would at last week’s exit interview. But a high-level power broker within the league says the Mavericks recognize that there’s urgency to build a contending team around Doncic after losing in the first round in each of the past two seasons. The clock is ticking.

    Internally, there are concerns the front office’s dysfunction has hurt its ability to do so — and that poor relationships Doncic has with key members of the franchise, including Voulgaris, could impact his current desire to remain in Dallas long-term. The team’s most recent postseason defeat against the LA Clippers served as a direct indictment on the roster constructed around him. Can Mavericks management remedy that in time? Or, as some team sources fear, will they pay the price for the dysfunctional dynamics that exist in some corners of the organization?

    Dallas announced Voulgaris’ hiring in the fall of 2018 with a title — director of quantitative research and development — that vastly understated his actual role. Multiple league and team sources tell The Athletic that Voulgaris has been the most influential voice within the Mavericks front office since joining the team, either initiating or approving virtually every transaction made over the past two seasons. Those same sources add that Voulgaris has frequently gone as far as scripting the starting lineups and rotations for longtime head coach Rick Carlisle.

    That influence has spanned Doncic’s three seasons in Dallas. While he had been drafted prior to Voulgaris’ arrival — Donnie Nelson, the team’s longtime president of basketball operations, was the driving force behind trading up to acquire the Slovenian wunderkind, a process he described in detail to The Athletic last year — Cuban had sought out Voulgaris’ basketball advice in the years before putting him on the team’s payroll. As one team source says, “Mark Cuban is the most powerful person in the organization, but whoever he’s listening to is second.” Cuban was won over by Voulgaris’ vision: an analytics-driven spread pick-and-roll offense with Doncic as the focal point which he has tried implementing in the past seasons.

    It’s unclear when the Cuban and Voulgaris relationship began, but their coming together is perhaps unsurprising given Cuban’s origin as a self-made tech billionaire whose first major purchase was the Mavericks. Voulgaris has never been shy about his desire to run a team. In an ESPN feature from 2013, Voulgaris is quoted as saying, “The whole process (of becoming a highly successful gambler) has led me to believe that I’d be able to put together a better team than almost any general manager in the league. If not maybe all.”

    The way Voulgaris tells it — the ESPN feature is the only notable reporting ever focused on him, and he declined an interview request from The Athletic shortly after being hired — he began gambling on the NBA in the late 1990s and had made millions by the early 2000s. His success, he says, came in part from an instinctual reading of certain coaches. It finally failed him during the 2003-04 season, causing him to lose much of his gambling wealth and step away temporarily, only returning once he’d developed an analytics model that brought back his old edge. He says he did exactly that, his new model beating the odds at a rate higher than five percent. In 2009, he gave up gambling again to consult for an unnamed NBA franchise. The advisory role lasted one season; he returned to his previous life afterward and began publicly promoting himself. In the coming years, he became a well-known presence in the basketball world.

    Voulgaris spent a limited amount of time around the Mavericks during his first season of employment, attending about one-quarter of the team’s games. He attended fewer games the following season, but his imprint on the team’s roster grew substantially that offseason. It was Voulgaris who initiated the team’s acquisitions of Seth Curry and Delon Wright, with multiple sources telling The Athletic that Voulgaris believed Wright should start next to Doncic. “He was the only person that believed that,” one team source says. Wright did start the season opener before being moved to a full-time bench role the following game, barely playing in the team’s first-round defeat in the 2020 postseason. He was traded that offseason.

    Because Voulgaris’ influence was greater than his official role, those within the front office — and executives around the league who interacted with them — were often confused about who actually held power. “We had two general managers,” a team source says. Nelson remained the team’s president of basketball operations, a role he has held since 2005, and other executives and agents continued largely communicating with him or Cuban regarding personnel matters. Nelson continued to spearhead major moves, including trades for Kristaps Porzingis and Tim Hardaway Jr. in 2019, Josh Richardson in 2020 and J.J. Redick in 2021. But team sources say Voulgaris was supportive of the transactions — or explicitly approved them.

    Multiple league and team sources point to the 2020 draft as a particularly egregious example of Voulgaris’ power, an evening one source described as “embarrassing.” Most members of the scouting department joined the team’s war room remotely through Zoom and were surprised when Voulgaris, attending in person, didn’t consult them for either of the team’s first two selections (Josh Green and Tyrell Terry) despite disagreements they held with at least one of the players he picked.

    “What did (he) sell to Mark to make him believe (he) can do this?” asks one source with an intimate knowledge of the situation. “Nobody knows.”

    It marked another throughline of Voulgaris’ tenure with the Mavericks: that his personality and decision making has steadily irritated and exasperated the team’s front office employees and players over the course of the three seasons he’s been employed. “He doesn’t know how to talk to people,” that same source says.

    That’s best exemplified by Dallas’ franchise player disliking him. Doncic’s strained relationship with Voulgaris predated their incident in February, multiple sources say. It wasn’t the only incident, either. This season, Voulgaris attended his first game in mid January, frequently appearing courtside at home and also traveling with them on the road in the months that followed. In mid-April, during the final minute of a home defeat to the New York Knicks, Voulgaris was seen on the game’s broadcast footage standing up and leaving with about 45 seconds remaining. While the Mavericks were trailing by 10 points at the time, they cut the deficit to six and extended the game seven more possessions before eventually losing.


    Doncic noticed Voulgaris’ early departure. In the locker room after the game, multiple league and team sources say he told teammates he viewed Voulgaris leaving before the game’s conclusion as him quitting on them. Voulgaris would not attend another game the rest of the year.

    Multiple team sources confirm Voulgaris remained involved in the team’s gameplans and in-game adjustments in a remote role. But Voulgaris, who earlier this season appeared likelier than not to wrest further control over the front office and perhaps even drive out Nelson entirely, now heads into a summer with his contract set to expire and uncertainty surrounding his future.

    When reached for comment on Monday, Cuban defended Voulgaris’ involvement. “I really like what Bob brings to the table. He does a great job of supporting Rick and the front office with unique data insights.”

    Cuban added: “Bob has a great grasp of AI and the opportunities it creates for gaining an advantage. Which is important to me. But he isn’t any more influential than any other data source on the team.”

    Voulgaris declined to comment for this story when reached on Sunday.

    Doncic’s relationship with his head coach, Rick Carlisle, has been publicly scrutinized since joining his team. It’s expected Carlisle will return next season, multiple league sources say, something Cuban publicly voiced support for last week shortly after the first round defeat.

    “Let me tell you how I look at coaching,” he told ESPN. “You don’t make a change to make a change. Unless you have someone that you know is much, much, much better, the grass is rarely greener on the other side.”

    Multiple sources were surprised to see Cuban’s prompt backing of Carlisle, however, even though Cuban’s support for Carlisle has hardly wavered over the past decade. During the season, it was believed Carlisle’s future could be reconsidered following the season, partly due to a belief Doncic had tuned him out.

    “It was very much up in the air,” one source with intimate knowledge of the situation said.

    Sources say some players have been frustrated with Carlisle after they lost playing time despite doing exactly what they felt he had asked of them, and for stiff rotation patterns, the latter of which they viewed — correctly, team sources confirm — as being dictated directly to him by Voulgaris. Early on, Doncic also disliked Carlisle’s timeouts and frequent calling of plays.

    But Carlisle, who’s “adaptable as a motherfucker,” as one league source put it, began to modify his coaching style as a way of relieving some of the pressure from this sensitive situation. Beyond Carlisle’s obvious coaching acumen, he has always been able and willing to, in essence, read the room when it came to which personal battles he could win and which ones he couldn’t. This was no different.


    Doncic’s greatness, so evident so early on, clearly compelled Carlisle to consider the changing hoops politics at hand. Since being hired in May of 2008, Carlisle has had his fair share of friction with key players, in large part because of his well-known tendency to be controlling. But Rajon Rondo, this was not.

    In truth, it was far closer to the difficult dynamic that he’d successfully navigated with then-point guard Jason Kidd en route to winning the franchise’s first and only title in 2011. It took an intervention of sorts to get through that friction back then, when then-Mavericks assistant coaches Tim Grgurich, Dwane Casey and Terry Stotts stepped in to tell Carlisle that he needed to loosen the reins on Kidd. In the end, of course, it was a wise and necessary move.

    The championship took Carlisle’s credibility to another level in those coming years. He was, with good reason, virtually untouchable when it came to the job insecurities that most coaches face. Such is life when you reach the NBA’s mountaintop for a franchise that has never been there before.

    But as Doncic started to look more and more like a modern-day Dirk Nowitzki these past three seasons — the kind of once-in-a-generation player who the Mavericks could build around for the next two decades — the landscape that surrounded Carlisle began to change. And Carlisle, quite clearly, decided to change along with it.

    “You can’t win against the next Nowitzki,” one source said.

    Doncic has a healthy relationship with the Mavericks organization at large. League sources say he angled to be drafted by the team in 2018, and he has been particularly complimentary of his relationship with Nowitzki, whose final season coincided with Doncic’s first. Those feelings could change if the team’s postseason struggles continue, as the Mavericks haven’t advanced past the first round since their 2011 championship run. It’s not that Doncic’s situation with the team is at a critical inflection point right now. Multiple team sources simply fear that it’s heading that direction.

    Those concerns mostly center on Cuban and the decisions he makes regarding who he trusts and imbues with power. Sometimes, it’s examples like Voulgaris, a sports gambler with no league experience being given near total control of the team’s roster. Other times, it’s the relationships he doesn’t sever: The Mavericks’ front office has come to be known around the league for its long-existing power structure that, Voulgaris aside, has barely changed.

    Doncic has provided the Mavericks a chance to return to prominence. He’s a generational star the team was fortunate to draft, seamlessly taking the mantle from the franchise player before him. But after beginning another offseason sooner than hoped for, the focus falls upon the organization around him: on how the dynamic that existed over the past seasons was allowed to operate in such a haphazard manner, and whether it can be fixed before it’s too late.

     
    Comments
      
      Sanlmar: Thx
      
      WillieMcFML: Thanks for posting
      
      Sheesfaced: Ty ty
      
      IamGreek: You win the spoiler competition! OPA!
      
      Dan Druff: very interesting
      
      nunbeater: haralabob!

  2. #2
    fkn nerds. can his ass

    did billy beane win the title? no

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by thesidedish View Post
    fkn nerds. can his ass

    did billy beane win the title? no
    It’s Harolobob you nonce. He’s clever and opportunistic but no nerd

    Degenerate poker player and basketball sports wagerer. I exaggerate as he quit poker and sports gambling when his edge was gone which is unheard of behavior

    He’s a fan with entry level analytics pursuing his hobby. That said, I’m a huge fan. I wonder if he ever finished building that house in Monte Carlo?

  4. #4
    Platinum garrett's Avatar
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    I posted this in other thread, Mark Cuban said its BS yesterday

    https://twitter.com/#!/x/status/1404487874695806982

     
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      FRANKRIZZO: mark cuban is god

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by garrett View Post
    I posted this in other thread, Mark Cuban said its BS yesterday

    https://twitter.com/#!/x/status/1404487874695806982
    Cuban is not to be trusted. All mouth.

  6. #6
    Lol at garrett neg repping me because cubes said it was bullshit.

    Seriously, wtf else could he possibly say?

     
    Comments
      
      country978: offset

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Crowe Diddly View Post
    https://theathletic.com/2649806/2021...h-luka-doncic/

    Tldr: Cuban loves Bob and his analytics, therefore Bob has tons of power. Not everyone else loves that, including Luka.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanlmar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by thesidedish View Post
    fkn nerds. can his ass

    did billy beane win the title? no
    Itís Harolobob you nonce. Heís clever and opportunistic but no nerd

    Degenerate poker player and basketball sports wagerer. I exaggerate as he quit poker and sports gambling when his edge was gone which is unheard of behavior

    Heís a fan with entry level analytics pursuing his hobby. That said, Iím a huge fan. I wonder if he ever finished building that house in Monte Carlo?


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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Crowe Diddly View Post
    Lol at garrett neg repping me because cubes said it was bullshit.

    Seriously, wtf else could he possibly say?
    Lol at garrett un-neg repping me because I called him out on it.

     
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      nightmarefish: lol
      
      Sheesfaced:

  9. #9
    Platinum garrett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crowe Diddly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Crowe Diddly View Post
    Lol at garrett neg repping me because cubes said it was bullshit.

    Seriously, wtf else could he possibly say?
    Lol at garrett un-neg repping me because I called him out on it.
    I hope in all actuality, you really do not believe this to be true right.

    Sanlmar had just posted this in the NBA thread and I linked the twitter post there. Then saw your post here so I figured you didnt see out Luka/harlalol talk in the other thread, so it's w.e but you Mass kids all Liberally fly together I know Crowe/sanlmar got the Mass thing in common. That was why I at first neg repped, instead of adding to that thread you started a new thread about it here.

    Crowe and Sanlmar some might consider, 'Mass-Tards' hah i kid =)

     
    Comments
      
      Crowe Diddly: Masshole is the general term, and acceptable.

  10. #10
    We both voted for our Republican Governor but other than that ....

     
    Comments
      
      garrett: Rich people like you, almost ALWAYS vote Republican obv. ohh and 'dont forget to pak the ca in the havad yad' =)...
      
      Crowe Diddly: I consider this a personal attack

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanlmar View Post
    We both voted for our Republican Governor but other than that ....
    I assure you, there is zero chance that I have ever checked a box for a Republican in any election. I grew up in a Union family, we don't vote for Republicans and we don't shop at Walmart, among other things.

     
    Comments
      
      garrett: LOL unionism lover, and I now live in a non-union State go figure =).
      
      Walter Sobchak: good for you

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by garrett View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Crowe Diddly View Post
    Lol at garrett un-neg repping me because I called him out on it.
    I hope in all actuality, you really do not believe this to be true right.

    Sanlmar had just posted this in the NBA thread and I linked the twitter post there. Then saw your post here so I figured you didnt see out Luka/harlalol talk in the other thread, so it's w.e but you Mass kids all Liberally fly together I know Crowe/sanlmar got the Mass thing in common. That was why I at first neg repped, instead of adding to that thread you started a new thread about it here.

    Crowe and Sanlmar some might consider, 'Mass-Tards' hah i kid =)
    Fair enough, I searched "haralabob" and nothing recent came up so I missed that post, but the timing was pretty hard to miss, you rep, I post about the rep, rep disappears, but I accept your answer as true.

     
    Comments
      
      Sanlmar: can’t spell Haralabob - so there was that

  13. #13
    I bet Luka can't pronounce Haralabos Voulgaris.



  14. #14
    I suspect Haralobob's reputation as a professional poker player and sports bettor have been largely exaggerated. I suspect he made most of his money as a bookie to Lindgren and other degenerate poker players. I suspect he was directly booking their action and they might not have even known it. That is why he was so upset when the Full Tilt spigot was turned off and Lindgren couldn't pay the last $1M+ he owed.

  15. #15
    But yeah, the Mav's took a couple big swings and misses to build a contending roster (Porzingis, Richardson) and maybe they are just setting HBob up as the fall guy for it, whether deserved or not.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by TheXFactor View Post
    I bet Luka can't pronounce Haralabos Voulgaris.


    Apparently Luka is fluent in 4 languages, and I imagine that is a skill that translates to being able to easily pronounce names in similar languages, so probably not a good bet.

  17. #17
    The basic complaint is not about what Bob does or knows, its that nobody wants to be told definitive things from a quant. Bob's super-confident and talks about things definitively (egotistical and uppity from another view), and no pro athlete wants to be talked to that way by a canadian greek guy who never played at any given level.

    In short, Bob's bedside manner is dogshit, and of all sports, top NBA players ain't about to be told what's what by a numbers guy like him, and Luka is top top.

  18. #18
    Gold Cerveza Fria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crowe Diddly View Post
    The basic complaint is not about what Bob does or knows, its that nobody wants to be told definitive things from a quant. Bob's super-confident and talks about things definitively (egotistical and uppity from another view), and no pro athlete wants to be talked to that way by a canadian greek guy who never played at any given level.

    In short, Bob's bedside manner is dogshit, and of all sports, top NBA players ain't about to be told what's what by a numbers guy like him, and Luka is top top.

    Actually, the beef is because Bob lives in a Penthouse and Luka lives on the Second Floor


     
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      Dan Druff: lolz
      
      Jayjami:

  19. #19
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Very interesting.

    If the article is true, and Haralabob was given this much power, I agree it was a mistake. He's the type of guy you want in the background, crunching numbers and advising the GM. You don't want him in a position of authority. As Crowe put it, "his bedside manner is dogshit".

    The NBA is a game of egos more than any other major sport. Aside from the occasional mild-mannered Tim Duncan type, most superstar players quickly learn that the world revolves around them, and they start acting accordingly. Doncic has been told for the last few years that he's a generational player. He doesn't like being bossed around by anyone, let alone an analysis geek.

    If Doncic is otherwise happy in Dallas, this may be the end of Haralabob's time there. The only wildcard in this situation is Cuban, who can be hard to predict. He develops bizarre obsessions with people and can sometimes have difficulty letting them go. Remember the whole thing washed up Dennis Rodman, about 20 years ago?

    Interestingly, despite all of his work with the Mavericks, Haralabob still has time to follow poker Twitter drama, and sometimes comment on it. Old habits die hard.

  20. #20
    Platinum ftpjesus's Avatar
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    This is starting to remind me when Dan Snyder hired Vinny Cerrato to be a special consultant to the Redskins/WFT.. It didnt end well and set the team back years.. Cerrato was de facto GM in reality and really killed the morale as well as the chemistry of the team.. He was the prime clown responsible for the ridiculous $100M ($41 Guaranteed) signing of Albert Haynesworth..

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