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Thread: Paypal stealing money from poker players like Chris Moneymaker (UPDATE: Federal class action lawsuit filed!)

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Paypal stealing money from poker players like Chris Moneymaker (UPDATE: Federal class action lawsuit filed!)

    PayPal getting really nasty these days.

    https://twitter.com/#!/x/status/1394727850373115911

    https://twitter.com/#!/x/status/1394722483480236032

    https://twitter.com/#!/x/status/1394727206199472134


    Mike Matusow also tweeted that he lost 11k from something like this.


    PayPal has stepped up their confiscation game! They used to freeze your funds for 180 days, and then release them if nobody charged back in that time. Now they're just outright confiscating the funds after those 180 days (after first claiming you'll get it back), claiming "damages".

    This company really needs to be brought under control. They're the same pieces of shit who run Venmo, which keeps allowing poker pros to get hacked from the inside of that platform, and refuse to address it or even provide support for most of these people.

    I've hated PayPal for 20 years.

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    They probably added that $2,500 damages provision for "each violation" into their TOS as a legal basis to keep the funds.

    Still awful and should be challenged in Court but who knows.

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    Diamond TheXFactor's Avatar
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    Ethereum does ten times as much business as PayPal.

    Open a few crypto wallets and force people to pay you in crypto.

    No chargbacks.

    No bullshit about having your account froze.





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    Cubic Zirconia
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    I hope Moneymaker doesn't hope to get any sympathy since he takes money from WPN and they have confiscated funds from an account or two

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    Quote Originally Posted by randomguy View Post
    I hope Moneymaker doesn't hope to get any sympathy since he takes money from WPN and they have confiscated funds from an account or two
    This is about Paypal and Venmo both owned by the same company allowing thieves to operate with impunity and then being thieves themselves, arbitrarily locking accounts and seizing funds for whatever reason they feel like and essentially you having to fight a corporate behemoth with tons of lawyers to try and get your money back.. #FuckPaypal #FuckVenmo

     
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      Dan Druff: correct

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    Cubic Zirconia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryback_feed_me_more View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by randomguy View Post
    I hope Moneymaker doesn't hope to get any sympathy since he takes money from WPN and they have confiscated funds from an account or two
    This is about Paypal and Venmo both owned by the same company allowing thieves to operate with impunity and then being thieves themselves, arbitrarily locking accounts and seizing funds for whatever reason they feel like and essentially you having to fight a corporate behemoth with tons of lawyers to try and get your money back.. #FuckPaypal #FuckVenmo

    I understand that and don't disagree. I was pointing out the irony of Moneymaker complaining when it happens to him but takes the ACR money with the other hand who does this type of thing all the time and so Moneymaker isn't going to get any sympathy from me.

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    Silver AhoosierA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by randomguy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryback_feed_me_more View Post

    This is about Paypal and Venmo both owned by the same company allowing thieves to operate with impunity and then being thieves themselves, arbitrarily locking accounts and seizing funds for whatever reason they feel like and essentially you having to fight a corporate behemoth with tons of lawyers to try and get your money back.. #FuckPaypal #FuckVenmo

    I understand that and don't disagree. I was pointing out the irony of Moneymaker complaining when it happens to him but takes the ACR money with the other hand who does this type of thing all the time and so Moneymaker isn't going to get any sympathy from me.
    I would disagree that "this happens all the time" with ACR. They actually have a good record of paying out and not many stories where they confiscate funds from legit accounts.

    Not sure why you came to this forum? Help? Just to vent? But in your thread, you've provided 0 shred of evidence of your claims.

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Chris is indeed suing them.

    And his attorney?

    Friend of Poker Fraud Alert (and my attorney, as well), Eric Bensamochan!

    https://www.poker.org/chris-moneymak...-seized-funds/

     
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      JeffDime: Good choice!
      
      adamantium: nice
      
      sah_24: been smokin rep

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    Definitely GL!

    Hopefully there is no requirement in the TOS for filing the lawsuit in Northern California, particularly in District Court = home town bias.

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    Have to wish them all the Best..... Going up against Goliath.....shd be interesting seeing it play out...

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Here's another article about the matter:

    https://www.tightpoker.com/news/chri...-paypal-14638/

    I'll forgive them for misspelling my name.

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    ERIC BENSAMOCHAN HAS PAYPAL RUNNING SCARED

    https://twitter.com/#!/x/status/1405218054133387268

    https://twitter.com/#!/x/status/1405218405083488259

    https://twitter.com/#!/x/status/1405686168025546754


    Good writeup here by Jennifer Newell, who has done a great job covering both this and the Postle situation over the past 2 years: https://www.legaluspokersites.com/ne...eymaker/26991/

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    PayPal's reign of financial terror and thievery must be stopped.

    https://twitter.com/#!/x/status/1410590005941182464

    I messaged this guy, hopefully he joins the lawsuit.

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    Cubic Zirconia
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    The plot thickens
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    UPDATE

    Eric might be responsible for PayPal attempting to tighten up their TOS!

    I just got this e-mail, which was blasted out to all members:

    Hi Todd,

    We’re making some changes to our legal agreements that will apply to you.
    .
    .
    .
    Amendments to the PayPal Acceptable Use Policy

    Effective: September 21, 2021

    We are revising the policy to clarify that violations may subject you to damages. We are also expanding the existing list of prohibited activities and clarifying the commercial activities requiring pre-approval.
    This can be found (for the moment) here, but that link will change soon, as it's an ongoing list of upcoming changes.

    So it looks like they are changing their AUP to "clarify" that you will be responsible for "damages" if you violate their terms. This is presumably out of concern regarding the lawsuit, where they're afraid they may not have the right to collect the "damages" from users that they've been stealing from them.

    They're also "expanding the list of prohibited activites", presumably to give themselves more rights to shut down people's accounts and take their money. Furthermore, they're "clarifying commercial activities requiring pre-approval", making it tougher for certain types of small businesses to utilize PayPal without it being a terms violation.

    I think it's highly likely that these are all concerns spawned by the lawsuit. Remember, this suit won't just feature poker players and gamblers, but also small businesses such as baseball card trading and gun parts, where their money was also stolen by PayPal. Presumably PayPal thinks that by specifically listing more prohibited types of sales, more clearly stating that people will be liable for "damages" for violating rules, and disallowing certain transactions without prior approval, it will allow them to continue taking people's money with impunity.

    Even if they think this covers them, I have to believe this is a positive for the upcoming class action suit. These changed terms would seem to imply that the prior terms (when the money confsications occurred) weren't sufficient.

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    Cool

    radio time brother...feeeerollllllll... we counting on you!

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    Quote Originally Posted by AhoosierA View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by randomguy View Post


    I understand that and don't disagree. I was pointing out the irony of Moneymaker complaining when it happens to him but takes the ACR money with the other hand who does this type of thing all the time and so Moneymaker isn't going to get any sympathy from me.
    I would disagree that "this happens all the time" with ACR. They actually have a good record of paying out and not many stories where they confiscate funds from legit accounts.

    Not sure why you came to this forum? Help? Just to vent? But in your thread, you've provided 0 shred of evidence of your claims.
    ACR has a problem but its not scamming people directly.. Its their at best Shitty IT department and constant server failures at worst its deliberate take downs of the servers when they miss guarantees by signficant margins and dont want to pay the overlay out of Phils fat ass

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    I bet you forgot about this, right? (If you're here from Twitter, scroll up to the top to understand what's going on.)

    Well, attorney Eric Bensamochan didn't forget. A lawsuit was filed against PayPal in the Northern California district of federal court today, with three named plaintiffs, seeking class action status.

    Once class action status is established, more plaintiffs can join. The best known of the three plaintiffs is female poker pro Lena Evans. This was a picture of her from 2019:




    If you'd like to read the 37-page complaint, I have it for you here, in PDF format: https://pokerfraudalert.com/paypal-lawsuit-seizures.pdf


    Bloomberg is already all over this one: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ut-explanation

    I really hope this lawsuit is successful. Paypal has likely stolen from a staggering number of people around in the world, via these seizures.

  20. #20
    Poker Investigative Journalist
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    I'd have had this up a few hours ago but I was out and about for a few hours, as I am most Thursday evenings. If you don't want to read all 37 pages, here are the highlights:

    https://www.poker.org/moneymaker-cla...ead-plaintiff/

     
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      incognito81: Good Shit. Hope something comes of it.

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