George Floyd Autopsy: COVID death, no neck injury and drugs onboard...

[Walter Sobchak]

Police brutality causing death. No way that cop doesn't do time and a lot of it if there is any justice.

This is America we're talking about.

[Salty_Aus]

Floyd was pretty much in the police vehicle when Chauvin arrived. He opened the opposite door that the cops were trying to load him and pulls him out of the car. Why the fuck did he pull him out of the vehicle before kneeling on his neck?
Pulling him out of the police vehicle to me is very odd.

I have a distinct memory from the videos. Emergency responders arrive and Chauvin throws him on the stretcher like he's a piece of meat.

Guilty of brutality 100% not sure he intended to kill him though.

[limitles]

I don't think anyone who isn't paid off or is mentally ill could find that officer innocent. Innocent of what will probably be the trump card. The racial element is important because as we know not all are treated equally.
Deny it all day but you just embarrass yourself

Your first sentence is appalling. The left, the left, always pointing. Seeing a man snuffed out while handcuffed and surrounded by armed policemen is somehow political. The general public which includes you didn't know the history of that cop. Police brutality is not new and neither is it a myth

Say What? You think Druff's articulation is bad? Look to your first one my not so good man. You are using a double negative which confuses...take it from me, no one's opinion on anything is worth the work it take to unravel wording like that--not even opinions of the "PFA saint" Sonatine or his todey sidekick lol wow....

(eliminating the double neg, you are saying you believe someone paid off could find the officer innocent, and also believe a mentally ill person would find him guilty)

Whatever. That's all you have to say? Oh I'm guilty of fucking up a sentence. You got the drift didn't you? I got the drift of Druff's ridiculous take that political ideology is even mentioned in this thread.

Imagine if someone you knew died in the street while begging to breathe. But don't bother with that. You've got grammar on your mind

And I don't remember calling him out for his sentence structure ya dildo

This thread is an embarrassment. Some idiot who has potentially seen what there is to see proposes this was a drug overdose.

[Walter Sobchak]

The left is so committed to their racial justice narrative that they're ignoring the super obvious reform sitting right in front of their faces.

This wasn't a first time offense for Chauvin. He behaved badly several times before, and should have lost his badge a long time ago. Most cops in suspected brutality situations have a long history of abusive behavior. The police unions protect them.

If the left really gave a shit about police brutality, they would drop the racial element (since there's no evidence this had to do with race), and focus upon making it easier to dismiss bad cops.

Instead, it's all about the systemic racism narrative.

Now if Chauvin gets off, the impression will be that the racist system let a murderer of a black man walk free, and there will be tremendous civil unrest. Terrible.

I somewhat but not completely agree.

It should be easier to get rid of poorly performing public servants. At the same time, I think it's important to have strong unions in both the public and private sector to protect workers--but only the ones doing their jobs and doing them well. I realize in practice this is hard to achieve, but the current situation where people depending on ideology either blindly support or blindly hate unions is not healthy for the middle class, which basically would not exist without unions plus the social safety net.

Also we can't completely eliminate the racial aspect. It exists and we have to deal with it honestly. What we don't have to do is let it cause a fight to the death between SJWs on one side and Confederate flag-wavers on the other. Fuck all of those people.

[limitles]

The left is so committed to their racial justice narrative that they're ignoring the super obvious reform sitting right in front of their faces.

This wasn't a first time offense for Chauvin. He behaved badly several times before, and should have lost his badge a long time ago. Most cops in suspected brutality situations have a long history of abusive behavior. The police unions protect them.

If the left really gave a shit about police brutality, they would drop the racial element (since there's no evidence this had to do with race), and focus upon making it easier to dismiss bad cops.

Instead, it's all about the systemic racism narrative.

Now if Chauvin gets off, the impression will be that the racist system let a murderer of a black man walk free, and there will be tremendous civil unrest. Terrible.

I somewhat but not completely agree.

It should be easier to get rid of poorly performing public servants. At the same time, I think it's important to have strong unions in both the public and private sector to protect workers--but only the ones doing their jobs and doing them well. I realize in practice this is hard to achieve, but the current situation where people depending on ideology either blindly support or blindly hate unions is not healthy for the middle class, which basically would not exist without unions plus the social safety net.

Also we can't completely eliminate the racial aspect. It exists and we have to deal with it honestly. What we don't have to do is let it cause a fight to the death between SJWs on one side and Confederate flag-wavers on the other. Fuck all of those people.

Same thing, this is way off topic. Unions, bad employees, what? People with the authority they have been granted cannot run amok. Forget the victim was a minority. Forget that he might have committed a non violent crime. Forget all the shitty racial history. This was a brutal act by a civil servant. Belonging to a police force should not offer him one ounce of protection from the law.

Everything Druff said was after the fact b.s.

[desertrunner]

Guilty of brutality 100% not sure he intended to kill him though.

I think you definition of brutality is way off. Take off the emotional glasses, he resisted arrest.

[Dan Druff]

The left is so committed to their racial justice narrative that they're ignoring the super obvious reform sitting right in front of their faces.

This wasn't a first time offense for Chauvin. He behaved badly several times before, and should have lost his badge a long time ago. Most cops in suspected brutality situations have a long history of abusive behavior. The police unions protect them.

If the left really gave a shit about police brutality, they would drop the racial element (since there's no evidence this had to do with race), and focus upon making it easier to dismiss bad cops.

Instead, it's all about the systemic racism narrative.

Now if Chauvin gets off, the impression will be that the racist system let a murderer of a black man walk free, and there will be tremendous civil unrest. Terrible.

I somewhat but not completely agree.

It should be easier to get rid of poorly performing public servants. At the same time, I think it's important to have strong unions in both the public and private sector to protect workers--but only the ones doing their jobs and doing them well. I realize in practice this is hard to achieve, but the current situation where people depending on ideology either blindly support or blindly hate unions is not healthy for the middle class, which basically would not exist without unions plus the social safety net.

Also we can't completely eliminate the racial aspect. It exists and we have to deal with it honestly. What we don't have to do is let it cause a fight to the death between SJWs on one side and Confederate flag-wavers on the other. Fuck all of those people.

Public labor unions are a disaster all around, and they run counter to the entire original concept of unions.

Unions were necessary at a point when greedy corporations were taking advantage of employees, with the theory being that corporations only exist for profit, and there needs to be a counter-entity to protect the interest of employees.

Since public jobs exist specifically to serve the public good, and the government is their employer, there is no profit motive. Therefore, there is no greedy corporation to fight against, and anything unfair to public employees can be addressed at the government level! Public unions exist specifically to place the interests of their employees over the public interest! Not good!

It is essential to provide sufficient means to discipline bad public employees, as "customers" of public institutions can't simply take their business elsewhere.

I got to see the flaws in public labor unions firsthand as a kid, as a public school student. There were some teachers who were incompetent, lazy, or downright abusive. Provided they had tenure, they were protected from any kind of meaningful discipline, unless they broke the law or stopped showing up for work. Even as a little kid, I understood this was wrong.

Police unions are the reason that Derek Chauvin had a badge on the day he killed George Floyd. They need to be abolished or weakened, along with the teachers' union, and all other public labor unions.

[Salty_Aus]

Guilty of brutality 100% not sure he intended to kill him though.

I think you definition of brutality is way off. Take off the emotional glasses, he resisted arrest.

I'm sure you watch plenty of reality cop shows. You strike me as a wannabee cop.

Have you ever seen the police arrest someone and virtually get them into the police vehicle. Then pull them out and kneel on their neck for 8 minutes.... even continued after he was unresponsive and likely not breathing.
I've seen people resisting as they're put into a police van or car before. If reinforcements arrive they don't pull them out and kneel on their neck, they assist in getting them in and close the door. I know this is how they're trained.

Anybody who justifies what he did was right is a fucking retard of the highest order.

I'm not saying its murder, but he definitely had an attitude and wanted to show him who was boss. Perhaps even show the new guys what a real policeman is.

Police brutality.... no doubt!

[Walter Sobchak]

I think you definition of brutality is way off. Take off the emotional glasses, he resisted arrest.

I'm sure you watch plenty of reality cop shows. You strike me as a wannabee cop.

Have you ever seen the police arrest someone and virtually get them into the police vehicle. Then pull them out and kneel on their neck for 8 minutes.... even continued after he was unresponsive and likely not breathing.
I've seen people resisting as they're put into a police van or car before. If reinforcements arrive they don't pull them out and kneel on their neck, they assist in getting them in and close the door. I know this is how they're trained.

Anybody who justifies what he did was right is a fucking retard of the highest order.

I'm not saying its murder, but he definitely had an attitude and wanted to show him who was boss. Perhaps even show the new guys what a real policeman is.

Police brutality.... no doubt!

He definitely enjoyed preening as a tough guy for everyone who was watching/taking pics.

[nightmarefish]

I think you definition of brutality is way off. Take off the emotional glasses, he resisted arrest.

I'm sure you watch plenty of reality cop shows. You strike me as a wannabee cop.

Have you ever seen the police arrest someone and virtually get them into the police vehicle. Then pull them out and kneel on their neck for 8 minutes.... even continued after he was unresponsive and likely not breathing.
I've seen people resisting as they're put into a police van or car before. If reinforcements arrive they don't pull them out and kneel on their neck, they assist in getting them in and close the door. I know this is how they're trained.

Anybody who justifies what he did was right is a fucking retard of the highest order.

I'm not saying its murder, but he definitely had an attitude and wanted to show him who was boss. Perhaps even show the new guys what a real policeman is.

Police brutality.... no doubt!

The report I saw and the body cams will probably show (those cams will be interesting) is that they couldn’t get him into the car, he was already complaining that he couldn’t breathe. He was probably having a panic attack related to all the shit he was on. Since he was freaking out, high and in the street they put him on the ground so he wouldn’t do something crazy and get hit by a car etc etc. Up to the point where the dude kneels on his neck I don’t think the cops did anything wrong. The failure is when Floyd needed medical help they didn’t help him or even identify how much trouble the guy was clearly in. There were several pedestrians there telling the cops that Floyd was dying and they never reacted.

[GrenadaRoger]

The officer will be found NOT guilty. There was NO intent on hurting or killing anyone that day.

i believe juries in most places would find as you claim--but who knows what the 12 members of that local community will decide?

and intent does not need to be present for manslaughter -- so conviction on that charge is possible...

don't know the exact charges the police offices is facing

this just in: Judge allowed 3rd degree murder (manslaughter) charge to be added...in short, justice is bowing to local political pressure

so now the trial will proceed, and as DR has stated, no intent will be proved so no first degree conviction; but a 3rd degree conviction will be rendered in hope that appeases the locals from rioting--it shows that justice is not absolute and uniform, but influenced by the values of the community

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/de...?ocid=msedgntp

where you can go trouble-free in the USA depends on what you are and if you are acceptable to who has local control

[gimmick]

I somewhat but not completely agree.

It should be easier to get rid of poorly performing public servants. At the same time, I think it's important to have strong unions in both the public and private sector to protect workers--but only the ones doing their jobs and doing them well. I realize in practice this is hard to achieve, but the current situation where people depending on ideology either blindly support or blindly hate unions is not healthy for the middle class, which basically would not exist without unions plus the social safety net.

Also we can't completely eliminate the racial aspect. It exists and we have to deal with it honestly. What we don't have to do is let it cause a fight to the death between SJWs on one side and Confederate flag-wavers on the other. Fuck all of those people.

Public labor unions are a disaster all around, and they run counter to the entire original concept of unions.

Unions were necessary at a point when greedy corporations were taking advantage of employees, with the theory being that corporations only exist for profit, and there needs to be a counter-entity to protect the interest of employees.

Since public jobs exist specifically to serve the public good, and the government is their employer, there is no profit motive. Therefore, there is no greedy corporation to fight against, and anything unfair to public employees can be addressed at the government level! Public unions exist specifically to place the interests of their employees over the public interest! Not good!

So you're saying there's no need for defense lawyers? Judges and prosecutors work for public interest. Both are hired by various levels of government. So defense lawyers exist specifically to place the interests of their clients over the public interest! Not good!

Public labor unions exists because government and their employees/officials in a position of power are not infallible. You can disagree about them for other reasons, just not the one where public employees don't need representation.

[desertrunner]

I think you definition of brutality is way off. Take off the emotional glasses, he resisted arrest.

I'm sure you watch plenty of reality cop shows. You strike me as a wannabee cop.

Ha, I have some legit real LE training and not a “wannabe cop”. I guess you ran out of arguments and had to find a weak insult to use here.

[Walter Sobchak]

i believe juries in most places would find as you claim--but who knows what the 12 members of that local community will decide?

and intent does not need to be present for manslaughter -- so conviction on that charge is possible...

don't know the exact charges the police offices is facing

this just in: Judge allowed 3rd degree murder (manslaughter) charge to be added...in short, justice is bowing to local political pressure

so now the trial will proceed, and as DR has stated, no intent will be proved so no first degree conviction; but a 3rd degree conviction will be rendered in hope that appeases the locals from rioting--it shows that justice is not absolute and uniform, but influenced by the values of the community

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/de...?ocid=msedgntp

where you can go trouble-free in the USA depends on what you are and if you are acceptable to who has local control

Correct, which is why black people need to be especially careful.

[v12cl]

I'm sure you watch plenty of reality cop shows. You strike me as a wannabee cop.

Have you ever seen the police arrest someone and virtually get them into the police vehicle. Then pull them out and kneel on their neck for 8 minutes.... even continued after he was unresponsive and likely not breathing.
I've seen people resisting as they're put into a police van or car before. If reinforcements arrive they don't pull them out and kneel on their neck, they assist in getting them in and close the door. I know this is how they're trained.

Anybody who justifies what he did was right is a fucking retard of the highest order.

I'm not saying its murder, but he definitely had an attitude and wanted to show him who was boss. Perhaps even show the new guys what a real policeman is.

Police brutality.... no doubt!

The report I saw and the body cams will probably show (those cams will be interesting) is that they couldn’t get him into the car, he was already complaining that he couldn’t breathe. He was probably having a panic attack related to all the shit he was on. Since he was freaking out, high and in the street they put him on the ground so he wouldn’t do something crazy and get hit by a car etc etc. Up to the point where the dude kneels on his neck I don’t think the cops did anything wrong. The failure is when Floyd needed medical help they didn’t help him or even identify how much trouble the guy was clearly in. There were several pedestrians there telling the cops that Floyd was dying and they never reacted.

I think this is an accurate assessment, the next question becomes, what is the punishment for the cop?

How much of the blame goes to the guy on a lethal dose of fentanyl for putting himself into the position?

How much leeway do we give cops to make mistakes dealing with unruly, drugged up people?

It's an impossible job, and this Chauvin guy was still bad at it.

If due progress wasn't a thing, I'd say losing your career, family, and being hated by everyone, plus 6-12 months in jail feels about right.

It wasn't murder, but it was very negligent, as is shooting fentanyl through your anus.

[desertrunner]

A quick note on the public safety unions. I’m most likely the only member here thats been a member of both legit fire and LE unions and will verify here they are still very much needed today. They are also very effective internally and necessary. The old idea of “they were needed back then, but not now” is really false. Both police and fire members are under attack from overhead management weekly.

It’s like hiring a lawyer today to defend you for a legal issue- stuff happens. Getting rid of unions today would be like saying- remove lawyers as they aren’t needed as much today, society is now following more of the rules. Or- Let remove most of the rules from the WSOP because most of today's players are following them now and we should be good. It’s the same in public safety, lots of internal rules, laws and policy are violated and good employees getting the screw. If you’re in California, the "Peace Officer Bill of Rights" and "Firefighter Bill of Rights" are in place for a reason and are used and exercised often because upper management and civil leaders choose to continue to break and not follow local, state and federal laws.

If someone has never been in a public safety union, they won’t fully understand. It’s like me being critical of the internal workings of the WSOP, but never played in it, but still think they should scrap the posted rules today because most poker players now are OK and those past rules are outdated and no longer needed. I would be wrong in thinking this.

Not all unions are bad. The corrupt ones are making the good unions look bad.

[Salty_Aus]

I'm sure you watch plenty of reality cop shows. You strike me as a wannabee cop.

Have you ever seen the police arrest someone and virtually get them into the police vehicle. Then pull them out and kneel on their neck for 8 minutes.... even continued after he was unresponsive and likely not breathing.
I've seen people resisting as they're put into a police van or car before. If reinforcements arrive they don't pull them out and kneel on their neck, they assist in getting them in and close the door. I know this is how they're trained.

Anybody who justifies what he did was right is a fucking retard of the highest order.

I'm not saying its murder, but he definitely had an attitude and wanted to show him who was boss. Perhaps even show the new guys what a real policeman is.

Police brutality.... no doubt!

The report I saw and the body cams will probably show (those cams will be interesting) is that they couldn’t get him into the car, he was already complaining that he couldn’t breathe. He was probably having a panic attack related to all the shit he was on. Since he was freaking out, high and in the street they put him on the ground so he wouldn’t do something crazy and get hit by a car etc etc. Up to the point where the dude kneels on his neck I don’t think the cops did anything wrong. The failure is when Floyd needed medical help they didn’t help him or even identify how much trouble the guy was clearly in. There were several pedestrians there telling the cops that Floyd was dying and they never reacted.

I get it now.

Chauvin dragged him out of the police vehicle, jumped on his back and kneeled on his kneck for 8 minutes, to render assistance.

Makes perfect sense.... if you're a brain dead retard.

[limitles]

The report I saw and the body cams will probably show (those cams will be interesting) is that they couldn’t get him into the car, he was already complaining that he couldn’t breathe. He was probably having a panic attack related to all the shit he was on. Since he was freaking out, high and in the street they put him on the ground so he wouldn’t do something crazy and get hit by a car etc etc. Up to the point where the dude kneels on his neck I don’t think the cops did anything wrong. The failure is when Floyd needed medical help they didn’t help him or even identify how much trouble the guy was clearly in. There were several pedestrians there telling the cops that Floyd was dying and they never reacted.

I get it now.

Chauvin dragged him out of the police vehicle, jumped on his back and kneeled on his kneck for 8 minutes, to render assistance.

Makes perfect sense.... if you're a brain dead retard.

Take it from a white boy who has been cuffed and thrown in the back of a few cop cars. They don't care what you say, you're going where ever they want.

Nothing I saw video wise showed any trouble for a cop. No aggression. No swings, no death threats. There was no misbehaviour

Consider that this man was outnumbered and out gunned with his hands cuffed behind him.
What threat did he pose at any moment after being cuffed?

And who kneels on someones neck? Thank-you for your service.

[Salty_Aus]

I get it now.

Chauvin dragged him out of the police vehicle, jumped on his back and kneeled on his kneck for 8 minutes, to render assistance.

Makes perfect sense.... if you're a brain dead retard.

Take it from a white boy who has been cuffed and thrown in the back of a few cop cars. They don't care what you say, you're going where ever they want.

Nothing I saw video wise showed any trouble for a cop. No aggression. No swings, no death threats. There was no misbehaviour

Consider that this man was outnumbered and out gunned with his hands cuffed behind him.
What threat did he pose at any moment after being cuffed?

And who kneels on someones neck? Thank-you for your service.

Obviously.

He was handcuffed and the cops were having minor issues getting the rear drivers side door closed.
Chauvin shows up and opens the opposite door and literally drags him across the back seat and immediately jumps on his back and kneels on his neck.

Any suggestion that Chauvin was rendering assistance is ludicrous. He's a bully with an attitude and he certainly contributed to his death.... murder probably not but he deserves to be seriously punished.

[nightmarefish]

$27 million dollars for the Floyd family. No one wants to talk about the elephant in the room but George dying is probably the best thing that ever happen to most of them. I wonder how many were even close to him. He was a drug addict that moved away to Minnesota. Not the type of person that usually keeps great relationships with family members or stays in touch.