so the NY -> FL exodus is super fucking real apparently

[GambleBotsChafedPenis]

Well..... if one is making 200K a year in NYC and then moves to West Palm Beach working the same job for 100K and has a similar standard of living (weather, traffic, culture, et al aside)......

.....Then federal taxes do come into play.

Plus state & City & fuel & soda &&&&& ~~ - but that’s the point you were making

i mean grain of salt this because i literally just learned this was a thing today, but it feels like this isnt the sort of thing where people are relocating, taking new jobs with a paycut because its worth it because of X Y Z that sort of thing.

this feels like hedge fund x with all its research staff is just saying fuck it, we are moving to miami, we are saving 13% off our state income taxes and another 40% on our office fees, everyone pack your shit or give notice. like i really dont think anyones taking salary cuts.

id love to know if im wrong obviously because thats kinda why this feels like such a quantum change honestly.

think daly made the point in another thread (and think he was spot on) that the higher ups aint gonna be eating shit on this whole pandemic thing with their bonuses so the brunt of it will be borne by the analysts and associates who will have their pay cut via less of a bonus...will business come back to pre-COVID levels? meh, probably, but im sure the VP and MD level aint taking any chances...

granted the exodus hasnt fully happened yet, but once these fuckers can get away with paying analysts and associates less they'll do it in a heartbeat...i'd venture a guess that between the tax difference, living expense difference daly might be a little off but probably in the ballpark with the difference between NYC and so florida...

[GambleBotsChafedPenis]

another thing to think of is this...lotta these fuckers who are gonna be making these decisions have homes in the hamptons...now do they want to forgo those hamptons summers for the 90/90 weather of southern florida in the summertime? i dont know, maybe, maybe not...

whatever the case is, the powers that be in new york city better figure their shit out quick because if they let this idea fester too long they're gonna be in for some tough times...the city tax base is already being destroyed with each passing day that goes by without stimulus...lotta small businesses are closed/will be closing and they are never coming back...

[Walter Sobchak]

A few decades from now, Florida, Arizona and Southern California and much of Texas will be uninhabitable, and their economic activity will drop precipitously. In particular, much of Florida will be underwater. People will be migrating back to the old industrial cities of the north where it will still be possible to live and the winters will be mild. Lock up relatively cheap real estate in Rochester, Syracuse, Buffalo, Cleveland, Detroit and Milwaukee while you can.

[Cerveza Fria]

A few decades from now, Florida, Arizona and Southern California and much of Texas will be uninhabitable, and their economic activity will drop precipitously. In particular, much of Florida will be underwater. People will be migrating back to the old industrial cities of the north where it will still be possible to live and the winters will be mild. Lock up relatively cheap real estate in Rochester, Syracuse, Buffalo, Cleveland, Detroit and Milwaukee while you can.

Can't go to Buffalo...don't own a pair of bowling shoes.

[Cerveza Fria]

like its not a glitch, its not covid, its not OmG NyC Is ToO LiBTarDEd aNd DiRty.

its taxes.

real estate agents in miami are showing commercial spaces to like 3-4 NY hedge funds a day.

its all about cost cutting pretty much.

honestly i wonder how NY is going to deal with this. the subways need to be totally rebuilt, some of them are still offline from Sandy.. bridges are rapidly approaching unsafe.. like wtf are they going to do here..

Here's the thing that boggles my mind.

So you move out of NYC because the policies of the Democrats you have elected to office don't work. (Arguing Federal deficit spending and big programs is entirely different than States doing it because States can't print money.)

You move to a new State and you are excited about how it's run and functions.

Then you decide to elect the same type of people that broke the previous state you lived in and start the cycle all over again.

It might be the definition of insanity.

Nevada and Colorado are looking at you Texas and Florida.

As a South Florida resident...This is my biggest fear.

[Tellafriend]

also first big tropical storm lands and this whole initiative vanishes is my guess.

imagine an entire office screaming over hurricane winds, power is down / bloomberg terminals are dark, and the one guy in the office with cell reception has 17 minutes of battery time left and is trying to close out their positions because biden just tapped in chris christie to head the fema relief efforts and spooz is wilting.

They will have plenty of backup options to handle this 1-2x a year occurrence. Think satellite office in Dallas, etc.

[apwiz]

People have been moving out of the city for 50 years. It's what North Jersey and Staten Island are for. The city is a stopping point for most and a destination for only a few.

For a highly mobile and well funded workforce there is an exodus right now. But quite a few major companies are signing huge office deals and building swanky office spaces. Google, Amazon, Facebook are all expanding in a big way in NYC _right_ _now_. A lot of commercial space is empty at the moment and these landlords are renovating and upgrading so they can charge even more in the future. Lots of construction everywhere.

It is just like the stock market. It seems like a lot of people are struggling, but you would never notice this at the top. You have the same phenomena here in the city: there is no struggle here and many/most? people here have so much tied up in the markets that this is a record year, with all the indexes hitting record highs. I feel poor by NYC standards and it has been a record year for me, too.

the city tax base is already being destroyed with each passing day that goes by without stimulus...lotta small businesses are closed/will be closing and they are never coming back...

The city's tax base isn't coming from 1 man bodega shop that makes peanuts and pays peanuts in taxes. The city's tax base is coming from Google paying top dollar for very expensive real estate and 1000s of Google employees making 150-350K. Finance companies have been moving out for the past 20 years and tech/etc companies have been moving in to replace them.

We all complain here about the death of bodegas/etc all being replaced by yet another Duane Reade/Starbucks. This is all true, these businesses seem to be the only ones closing permanently and getting replaced by well financed chains. Whatever this indicates, it's not a sign of the city dying.

Can people live cheaper elsewhere? hell yea. Why do people chose to pay 700K for 1 bedroom? Why does the gas station downtown cost $4.50+ per gallon? Why do people chose to pay a premium for everything throughout the day? It's not just taxes. It has always been cheaper to live elsewhere, but people continue to come to NYC. It is cheaper and maybe the weather is better, but no one ever says they are moving to Florida for the amazing professional opportunities and to meet interesting people.

[Daly]

Well..... if one is making 200K a year in NYC and then moves to West Palm Beach working the same job for 100K and has a similar standard of living (weather, traffic, culture, et al aside)......

.....Then federal taxes do come into play.

Plus state & City & fuel & soda &&&&& ~~ - but that’s the point you were making

i mean grain of salt this because i literally just learned this was a thing today, but it feels like this isnt the sort of thing where people are relocating, taking new jobs with a paycut because its worth it because of X Y Z that sort of thing.

this feels like hedge fund x with all its research staff is just saying fuck it, we are moving to miami, we are saving 13% off our state income taxes and another 40% on our office fees, everyone pack your shit or give notice. like i really dont think anyones taking salary cuts.

id love to know if im wrong obviously because thats kinda why this feels like such a quantum change honestly.

I think the storyline is developing. Some it’s a “lift and shift” (keep same job/pay) others it’s we are closing here and opening there so if you want to apply for this job 20% less than you making now you are welcome to (and btw will come out ahead).

I took a demotion when I relocated but I desperately wanted out of traffic hell. I also, for other reasons I won’t get Into, had a bunch of shares that needed to vest over time that I would have walked away from and they knew it - so it all made sense.

[Daly]

also first big tropical storm lands and this whole initiative vanishes is my guess.

imagine an entire office screaming over hurricane winds, power is down / bloomberg terminals are dark, and the one guy in the office with cell reception has 17 minutes of battery time left and is trying to close out their positions because biden just tapped in chris christie to head the fema relief efforts and spooz is wilting.

Depending on industry there are entire divisions dedicated to disaster recovery. It’s not much different to a true blizzard.

[GambleBotsChafedPenis]

i get that one bodega closing isn't anything, but if you have the massive amount of restaurant/club/bar closures that will leave a nice dent in things...it's why billy boy was trying like hell to let those places stay open...dont know how many mcdonalds and starbucks can come in and take the place of those...

i also get the mobility of companies moving in and out, but that was in a different world when they didnt realize that they can do a lotta shit via zoom and just HQ in some place cheap...

again i aint willing to ring the death rattle, but if the powers that be aren't concerned about happening they really need to be fired for being incompetent...

[Daly]

think this was gonna happen, just that COVID supercharged the velocity of it happening...

banks were already starting to take the non-revenue generating parts of the business to places like this...

ive got my popcorn out for this one...i have no doubt that these multi-billion dollar operations will adapt if they choose to move everything out of NYC, but it was very easy for them to recruit talent up in NYC...all the ivys with the exception of cornell are within 3 hours, plus a shitton of other top schools...probably will be a pain in the ass but they'll still go after people from there...might be a culture shock for a little while going from northeast schools all the way down to florida, but at least the coke will be better...

A few comments on “education/talent”

UF and FSU are not an Ivy, but are extremely hard to get into and frequently land Ivy League talent.

The two worst employees I’ve ever had went to Harvard and Brown respectively, the Harvard guy was the Nut Low.

I’m not going to sit here and tell you there isn’t a high “Dutch digger quotient” here in Florida. That said just like everywhere else there are exceptional kids.

This is probably deserving of a whole separate thread but based on conversations I have with several friends in suburban Boston and experiencing public education here in Palm Beach County (not to be confused with the entire rest of the state) public schools are at least equal if not better than Massachusetts.

[sonatine]

think this was gonna happen, just that COVID supercharged the velocity of it happening...

banks were already starting to take the non-revenue generating parts of the business to places like this...

ive got my popcorn out for this one...i have no doubt that these multi-billion dollar operations will adapt if they choose to move everything out of NYC, but it was very easy for them to recruit talent up in NYC...all the ivys with the exception of cornell are within 3 hours, plus a shitton of other top schools...probably will be a pain in the ass but they'll still go after people from there...might be a culture shock for a little while going from northeast schools all the way down to florida, but at least the coke will be better...

A few comments on “education/talent”

UF and FSU are not an Ivy, but are extremely hard to get into and frequently land Ivy League talent.

The two worst employees I’ve ever had went to Harvard and Brown respectively, the Harvard guy was the Nut Low.

I’m not going to sit here and tell you there isn’t a high “Dutch digger quotient” here in Florida. That said just like everywhere else there are exceptional kids.

This is probably deserving of a whole separate thread but based on conversations I have with several friends in suburban Boston and experiencing public education here in Palm Beach County (not to be confused with the entire rest of the state) public schools are at least equal if not better than Massachusetts.

in fairness if youre trying to do business in europe, stuff like schools matter a lot.

...according to fintwit, mind you. if you say otherwise id be inclined to take your word for it.

[GambleBotsChafedPenis]

think this was gonna happen, just that COVID supercharged the velocity of it happening...

banks were already starting to take the non-revenue generating parts of the business to places like this...

ive got my popcorn out for this one...i have no doubt that these multi-billion dollar operations will adapt if they choose to move everything out of NYC, but it was very easy for them to recruit talent up in NYC...all the ivys with the exception of cornell are within 3 hours, plus a shitton of other top schools...probably will be a pain in the ass but they'll still go after people from there...might be a culture shock for a little while going from northeast schools all the way down to florida, but at least the coke will be better...

A few comments on “education/talent”

UF and FSU are not an Ivy, but are extremely hard to get into and frequently land Ivy League talent.

The two worst employees I’ve ever had went to Harvard and Brown respectively, the Harvard guy was the Nut Low.

I’m not going to sit here and tell you there isn’t a high “Dutch digger quotient” here in Florida. That said just like everywhere else there are exceptional kids.

This is probably deserving of a whole separate thread but based on conversations I have with several friends in suburban Boston and experiencing public education here in Palm Beach County (not to be confused with the entire rest of the state) public schools are at least equal if not better than Massachusetts.

definitely not making comments about the quality of education of southern universities cause i have no clue about that, more of what 'tine is getting at in his post...just the headline of having the haaaaaaaavad, yale, penn next to your name when getting into finance...it's one big frat party that's hard to get into if you dont have that degree...i would actually be very interested to see what the big banks analyst and associate classes for i-banking look like every year...i'd venture it's 90+% ivys, quasi ivys (chicago, northwestern, stanford, etc) if not more...

thats why these places are still charging full freight for their education, even in the middle of a pandemic without in person teaching...yeah you're probably getting a little bit better instruction at the ivys, but at the end of the day let's be real...youre paying for the name brand on the degree...

[Cerveza Fria]

Famous brands close their Big Apple shops in record numbers...

https://fxn.ws/38sqzqV

[sonatine]

Embedded Tweet

https://twitter.com/twt/status/1342189845242806274

[sonatine]

Embedded Tweet

https://twitter.com/twt/status/1343371919995842562

[OSA]

Embedded Tweet

https://twitter.com/twt/status/1343371919995842562

Except the gays. They'll be able to fit in much quicker.

[Daly]

A few comments on “education/talent”

UF and FSU are not an Ivy, but are extremely hard to get into and frequently land Ivy League talent.

The two worst employees I’ve ever had went to Harvard and Brown respectively, the Harvard guy was the Nut Low.

I’m not going to sit here and tell you there isn’t a high “Dutch digger quotient” here in Florida. That said just like everywhere else there are exceptional kids.

This is probably deserving of a whole separate thread but based on conversations I have with several friends in suburban Boston and experiencing public education here in Palm Beach County (not to be confused with the entire rest of the state) public schools are at least equal if not better than Massachusetts.

in fairness if youre trying to do business in europe, stuff like schools matter a lot.

...according to fintwit, mind you. if you say otherwise id be inclined to take your word for it.

I mean I’m a lowly state school guy and 80% my time has been spent on European projects the past two years. I’ve been in England, France, Italy, Germany and Poland for a few months time.

In my experience the paperwork matters your first 0-8 years but when you get the reputation as the person who can “make it all work” all that bullshit goes out the window, and that tends to be true worldwide.

[mickeycrimm]

This is a census year. New York and California could lose a congressional seat each plus a vote each in the electoral college.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=..._-sYP8I34qoOT4

[mickeycrimm]

This article is even more forboding for libtards. Many electoral votes could be shifting to red states.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...E81-1YHzWG5GWA