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Thread: The woke left is a cult

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    Diamond BCR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightmarefish View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post

    First off Obama isn’t a leftist. Only to loons. He was the drone guy who governed from the center more often.

    Also that he says it, and all of the Dem leadership agree with him, is why the right is a far bigger cult. You have to try to find some rare Republican willing to stand up and disagree when Trump says something idiotic. A Sasse or Romney.

    No Dem leadership puts that stuff forward. It’s from fringe figures living in the bluest areas of the country who have no national power.

    The leadership at the top of the Republican Party is in lockstep with a cult leader.

    Once again, you pointing out Obama said it is evidence of what not a cult it is. I’m taking about the Dem party. Not the leftist weirdos wanting 64 pronouns, yeah they’re a cult, just not an important one at this time.

    You old style republicans are going to realize the moment this is over that Trump is your party. People will be primaried or not at his whim. No one will be able to win without his blessing. If you’re an actual Republican, you should be hoping he ages quickly and passes on or goes to jail.
    My point is the far left is coming, It's not just the fringe, we're talking congresswomen and other elected officials and they're gaining strength. When Obama left office he had some unheard of approval rating with dems, I believe in the high 90%s. That's shrinking as the fringe gets bigger. I agree with you that the far right grew and came together first but the far left is coming. Both sides are crazy and both sides are bad for the country. We can nitpick what the exact definition of "cult" is but I'm concerned about emotional crazy people unwilling to even talk to someone that has different views then their own. In this case, Obama was just trying to be a voice of reason, far left won't hear it. And it's not like he's saying anything crazy, 5 years ago he wouldn't have received push back from anyone on the left even while police shootings were happening on his watch.

    The one difference I do see is that the far right is more aligned (due to Trump) then the far left. Currently, there's several difference factions of the far left that all have a "number #1" concern. Once their "Trump" comes along and unites them they'll be scary. Maybe that's AOC, maybe that's someone we don't know yet.
    You nailed it on alignment. The left has always been that way. There is 20 different flavors of progressive and most don’t vote half the time.

    Meanwhile I worry about what is already here.

    A Republican asking the president to tone it down because other Republicans are getting death threats is met with a response of doubling down on vilifying one of his biggest bootlickers, the gov of GA. And when you look at the response from the right, they’ll agree with him out of fear of reprisal. That’s a cult that’s arrived and runs the country. Not a theoretical one.


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    Diamond Walter Sobchak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by nightmarefish View Post
    Obama trying to point out how stupid the slogan "defend the police" is, far left not happy. If he can't get them to listen then no one can.
    First off Obama isn’t a leftist. Only to loons. He was the drone guy who governed from the center more often.

    Also that he says it, and all of the Dem leadership agree with him, is why the right is a far bigger cult. You have to try to find some rare Republican willing to stand up and disagree when Trump says something idiotic. A Sasse or Romney.

    No Dem leadership puts that stuff forward. It’s from fringe figures living in the bluest areas of the country who have no national power.

    The leadership at the top of the Republican Party is in lockstep with a cult leader.

    Once again, you pointing out Obama said it is evidence of what not a cult it is. I’m taking about the Dem party. Not the leftist weirdos wanting 64 pronouns, yeah they’re a cult, just not an important one at this time.

    You old style republicans are going to realize the moment this is over that Trump is your party. People will be primaried or not at his whim. No one will be able to win without his blessing. If you’re an actual Republican, you should be hoping he ages quickly and passes on or goes to jail.
    Exactly, this fringe element is not the mainstream left/Democrats. Every Democratic presidential nominee since 1992 has been a firm centrist. Bill Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Obama, Hillary Clinton, Biden. Kerry slightly more left than the others but by no means a radical. By contrast the Republicans completely derailed their train in nominating Trump. Until then they had firmly center-right nominees, with W a bit farther right than all the others. The House swings more between ideologies, and the Senate does as well but less so, but in presidential elections the center determines the outcome. The Republicans set out on this path 40 years ago and they slowly created a monster and now it has come to life and is out to kill them like Frankenstein.

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    [QUOTE=Walter Sobchak;943325]
    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post

    The Republicans set out on this path 40 years ago and they slowly created a monster and now it has come to life and is out to kill them like Frankenstein.
    This is what I believe is currently happening with the far left. They just need that charismatic leader to come along and unify their crazy asses.

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    Diamond Walter Sobchak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightmarefish View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post

    First off Obama isn’t a leftist. Only to loons. He was the drone guy who governed from the center more often.

    Also that he says it, and all of the Dem leadership agree with him, is why the right is a far bigger cult. You have to try to find some rare Republican willing to stand up and disagree when Trump says something idiotic. A Sasse or Romney.

    No Dem leadership puts that stuff forward. It’s from fringe figures living in the bluest areas of the country who have no national power.

    The leadership at the top of the Republican Party is in lockstep with a cult leader.

    Once again, you pointing out Obama said it is evidence of what not a cult it is. I’m taking about the Dem party. Not the leftist weirdos wanting 64 pronouns, yeah they’re a cult, just not an important one at this time.

    You old style republicans are going to realize the moment this is over that Trump is your party. People will be primaried or not at his whim. No one will be able to win without his blessing. If you’re an actual Republican, you should be hoping he ages quickly and passes on or goes to jail.
    My point is the far left is coming, It's not just the fringe, we're talking congresswomen and other elected officials and they're gaining strength. When Obama left office he had some unheard of approval rating with dems, I believe in the high 90%s. That's shrinking as the fringe gets bigger. I agree with you that the far right grew and came together first but the far left is coming. Both sides are crazy and both sides are bad for the country. We can nitpick what the exact definition of "cult" is but I'm concerned about emotional crazy people unwilling to even talk to someone that has different views then their own. In this case, Obama was just trying to be a voice of reason, far left won't hear it. And it's not like he's saying anything crazy, 5 years ago he wouldn't have received push back from anyone on the left even while police shootings were happening on his watch.

    The one difference I do see is that the far right is more aligned (due to Trump) then the far left. Currently, there's several difference factions of the far left that all have a "number #1" concern. Once their "Trump" comes along and unites them they'll be scary. Maybe that's AOC, maybe that's someone we don't know yet.
    Just because some of the fringe like AOC and a few others in Congress like her have devoted, vocal followings doesn't mean they are the future of the Democratic party. Ron Paul and David Duke had devoted, vocal followings and they weren't the future of the Republican party. The difference with Trump is that he won, and his followers don't give a fuck about the party or anybody but him, and they are most of the base of the Republican party.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by nightmarefish View Post

    My point is the far left is coming, It's not just the fringe, we're talking congresswomen and other elected officials and they're gaining strength. When Obama left office he had some unheard of approval rating with dems, I believe in the high 90%s. That's shrinking as the fringe gets bigger. I agree with you that the far right grew and came together first but the far left is coming. Both sides are crazy and both sides are bad for the country. We can nitpick what the exact definition of "cult" is but I'm concerned about emotional crazy people unwilling to even talk to someone that has different views then their own. In this case, Obama was just trying to be a voice of reason, far left won't hear it. And it's not like he's saying anything crazy, 5 years ago he wouldn't have received push back from anyone on the left even while police shootings were happening on his watch.

    The one difference I do see is that the far right is more aligned (due to Trump) then the far left. Currently, there's several difference factions of the far left that all have a "number #1" concern. Once their "Trump" comes along and unites them they'll be scary. Maybe that's AOC, maybe that's someone we don't know yet.
    Just because some of the fringe like AOC and a few others in Congress like her have devoted, vocal followings doesn't mean they are the future of the Democratic party. Ron Paul and David Duke had devoted, vocal followings and they weren't the future of the Republican party. The difference with Trump is that he won, and his followers don't give a fuck about the party or anybody but him, and they are most of the base of the Republican party.
    I think you're underestimating AOC and her potential. I mean, you really think the future of the dem party is moving closer to the center? We just disagree here.

  6. #66
    Diamond BCR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightmarefish View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak View Post

    Just because some of the fringe like AOC and a few others in Congress like her have devoted, vocal followings doesn't mean they are the future of the Democratic party. Ron Paul and David Duke had devoted, vocal followings and they weren't the future of the Republican party. The difference with Trump is that he won, and his followers don't give a fuck about the party or anybody but him, and they are most of the base of the Republican party.
    I think you're underestimating AOC and her potential. I mean, you really think the future of the dem party is moving closer to the center? We just disagree here.
    Politicians are the ultimate pussies for the most part. People move before politicians. The Dems are the constantly polling party. They didn’t move on gay marriage or marijuana on the state level until the majority of Americans agreed. Even Obamacare, it was a matter of how you asked the question. And it’s been increasing in popularity every year since.

    You’ll see an AOC type when her ideas are palatable to the American people. Where what she believes or someone like her is the majority opinion of the Dems and has a shot at being the majority opinion of the general election voter. Why the fuck run someone if they’re ideas poll at 30%?

    You know Republicans are insane because Trump was their choice at the top of the ticket. That says everything you need to know. That he eeked out an electoral college win says a lot about our country, most not good. It was really statistically improbable, but he got in. Thankfully America woke up, barely, and despite a shit candidate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by nightmarefish View Post

    I think you're underestimating AOC and her potential. I mean, you really think the future of the dem party is moving closer to the center? We just disagree here.
    Politicians are the ultimate pussies for the most part. People move before politicians. The Dems are the constantly polling party. They didn’t move on gay marriage or marijuana on the state level until the majority of Americans agreed. Even Obamacare, it was a matter of how you asked the question. And it’s been increasing in popularity every year since.

    You’ll see an AOC type when her ideas are palatable to the American people. Where what she believes or someone like her is the majority opinion of the Dems and has a shot at being the majority opinion of the general election voter. Why the fuck run someone if they’re ideas poll at 30%?

    You know Republicans are insane because Trump was their choice at the top of the ticket. That says everything you need to know. That he eeked out an electoral college win says a lot about our country, most not good. It was really statistically improbable, but he got in. Thankfully America woke up, barely, and despite a shit candidate.
    Ya, we just disagree here. AOC will eventually be at the top of the ticket IMO, sooner rather than later. The young generation looks at shit differently and don't give a shit about the old guard.

    I agree America woke up but Trump also got 11 million more votes in 2020 than 2016. That's hard to get my head around.

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    Diamond BCR's Avatar
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    I don’t even think she ever gets there, but it’s a long way off if so. Both sides are really elitist. Even a W or a Trump graduated from the Ivy League. Biden is our first since Reagan who didn’t, but he’s a lawyer. She’s got an undergrad degree. Not that I care, but it’s a thing. She also has an approval of somewhere in the 30s last time I saw. The median voter age is 51. Young people don’t like her any more than they liked Bernie the first time, and he was liked by older people too, and he still didn’t make it. I doubt she ever does. She’s decades away from being top of the ticket if she ever gets there.

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by nightmarefish View Post

    I think you're underestimating AOC and her potential. I mean, you really think the future of the dem party is moving closer to the center? We just disagree here.
    Politicians are the ultimate pussies for the most part. People move before politicians. The Dems are the constantly polling party. They didn’t move on gay marriage or marijuana on the state level until the majority of Americans agreed. Even Obamacare, it was a matter of how you asked the question. And it’s been increasing in popularity every year since.

    You’ll see an AOC type when her ideas are palatable to the American people. Where what she believes or someone like her is the majority opinion of the Dems and has a shot at being the majority opinion of the general election voter. Why the fuck run someone if they’re ideas poll at 30%?

    You know Republicans are insane because Trump was their choice at the top of the ticket. That says everything you need to know. That he eeked out an electoral college win says a lot about our country, most not good. It was really statistically improbable, but he got in. Thankfully America woke up, barely, and despite a shit candidate.
    Bernie would have been the nominee if the DNC hadn't intervened and screwed him.

    No drop out and endorsement from Kloubuchar and Buttigieg = No Biden

    They did the correct thing regarding beating Trump, as Biden was a much more palatable choice for swing voters who grew to dislike Trump. But without such intervention, the (Democratic) people would have chosen Bernie.

    That kinda kills your argument that the far left hasn't arrived yet.

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post
    You live in one of the tiny blue dots in a sea of red. You’re an LA dude, thus overly concerned with how the entertainment industry portrays your political side. One of your dupes concerns yourself with Hollywood. This has long been a point of contention with you given where you live.

    As I said, take this forum as an example as it’s broad cross section of the country. Who are the nutjobs that think Covid is a hoax, who keep thinking it’s a socialist global agenda, who are angry constantly and spam memes constantly when you don’t agree with them. It’s not left wing people. They’ll argue with you. They won’t spam every thread with the same unimaginative bullshit.

    I don’t associate cults with violence. There have been violent cults, but the worlds biggest cults aren’t violent most often. They are generally centered around worshipping a charismatic individual who they follow completely. That’s MAGA. They are often about mind control and money. Anyone who has seen Trumps fundraising material would realize how it preys upon their emotional connection with him to ask for money from people who don’t have it. I can provide examples of a dozen but I’m sure you’ve seen them. That’s pure cult.

    Like what about choice center was violent?

    It was just whack, and the worlds largest cults are generally that way. They are about constantly changing their personal thoughts to conform with their leader. That’s pure MAGA. Someone like yourself went from a supply side free trade neo-con loving Republican to the polar opposite, because you liked his stance on owning liberals basically. He also gave you tax cuts and some traditional conservative shit, but his views on tariffs and trade are the exact opposite of what you always voted for.

    But you’re not a true Trump cult guy. Not fully in.

    It’s hard to be isolated from a cult so large that almost half the country joined. So it hasn’t created isolationism, it’s created family problems. I’ve never seen anyone divide families like Trump.

    Take split, she said her Thanksgiving was ruined by her younger family members being indoctrinated by liberal schools. Clearly schools are liberal, but I’m sure they were aghast at their old aunt or whatever believing Mike Dewine is a secret socialist globalist working with Bill Gates to take over the world through forced vaccination. They rightfully see her as mentally ill, and that’s completely standard thinking among Trump people. Half a dozen others here have echoed the same ideas. That is more insane than the Choice Center by a mile.

    If almost half the country signed up for your same insane cult, no one would be isolated.

    You concede Trump acts like a cult leader, but you somehow ignore how insane your fellow Trump voters are. If Micon was following some leader who was saying a bunch of republican governors were working with the Chinese Communists and Hugo Chavez to overthrow the election, you’d make a thread about how he’s lost his mind. A large portion of your party feels this way, yet somehow you don’t find their thoughts crazy.

    MAGA is a full on cult.
    Cults don't always have to be violent.

    When they do get violent, it tends to be in attempt to protect their hold on ideological control. If you walk onto the compound of a traditional cult and try to deprogram the people there, there's a decent chance you'll be met with some sort of violence, even if it's clear you're unarmed and don't present a physical threat.

    Similarly, the woke left will engage in violence in order to prevent right-wing speakers from getting out their message on college campuses -- even milquetoast ones like Ben Shapiro.

    The right has no such equivalent. There is no real attempt to silence the other side.

    Regarding "constantly changing their thoughts to conform with their leader", that can be said about any rapidly changing political landscape. In 2005, how many people on the left were arguing for transgender 3-year-olds, full college loan debt cancellation, free college tuition everywhere, abortion-on-demand at 9 months, fully socialized medicine, black reparations, no cash bail, and defunding the police? Aside from a few extremists, probably very very few. Today none of these are considered outlier positions for the Democratic Party, and all of these positions were defended by major Democratic Presidential candidates in 2020.

    Trump's policies didn't differ too much from 2010 era mainstream Republican policy. There were some tweaks -- he was more isolationist, he was neutral on the LGBT stuff (a fact which is often overlooked), and he didn't want us in any new wars. Aside from that, it was pretty much Republican policy as usual. You claim that my politics have changed since Trump came into office, but they really haven't.


    Quote Originally Posted by BCR
    Cults do other things. They do this which I borrowed.

    Information control

    They practice deception
    They minimize or discourage access to non-cult sources of information
    They make extensive use of cult-generated information and propaganda
    The above is pretty much a perfect description of the Cult of the Woke Left.

    They are big advocates of cancel culture, and attempt to browbeat those with differing opinions to stay quiet.

    They are pro-censorship, excusing it as "fighting misinformation" or "silencing hate speech".

    They control or highly influence a large portion of the mass media and entertainment industry, and punish people in those organizations who don't go along with the accepted narrative. (This is why some of the completely insane trans stuff has been coddled for so long.)

    Doesn't that sound like your list above? If you don't believe this, how come longtime liberals like Noam Chomsky, Bill Maher, and countless others have sounded the alarm about this sort of behavior?


    Thought control

    They require members to internalize the group's doctrine as truth (black-and-white, good vs evil thinking).
    Again, this is a description of the Cult of the Woke Left, and not so much MAGA types.

    MAGA people push a fairly uniform narrative, but they have a fairly high tolerance for people who are mostly on their side but don't agree with everything. That's why I don't experience vicious, angry attacks on social media from MAGA types when I disagree, yet I get it all the time from leftists.

    If I were to have gone to a MAGA-infested Facebook group in late October 2020 and wrote, "Guys, I think you're incorrect about a lot of things, such as the way you've been treating COVID/masking, and your belief that Trump rarely does anything wrong. However, I'm a conservative like you, and I absolutely can't stand the left, so there's no question I'm still voting for Trump", what do you think would have happened?

    I'd get a few conspiratards trying to change my mind, and perhaps a few snide comments, but that would be it. For the most part, they'd be happy enough to see that I'm voting for Trump when it's all said and done, and that I'm mostly on their side.

    However, if you were to join a far-left group and disagree about BLM, defunding the police, and the current extreme trans movement, you would be called all kinds of horrible names, and told to get the fuck out. Even if you said you despise Trump and will never vote for a Republican for as long as you live, they still would be incredibly nasty to you.

    One side demands absolute conformity of belief systems, or you're judged almost as harshly as their opponents.

    The other side has conformity of belief systems, but is fairly tolerant of those from the outside who mostly agree but won't go along with some of the more extreme stuff.

    The fact that people with corporate careers can't express right wing politics on their Twitter anymore, without risking their jobs, should be all you need to know about how cult-like each side really is.

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Furthermore, the Cult of the Woke Left's obsession with "fact checking" should be alarming to any true liberal who enjoys free speech.

    There is no such thing as pure, unbiased fact checking, except when it comes to mathematical equations and scientific certainties. Everything else is colored by one's worldview and opinion.

    No so-called "fact checking" organization is willing to present a list of the people making the decisions, and demonstrating that there is a true ideological diversity among their staff. Anyone inquiring about this is told to get the fuck out, and that it's none of their business.

    Yet we are supposed to trust these "fact checkers" to be arbiters of what we see and don't see on social media, and simply take their word for it that they're unbiased.

    It is incredibly upsetting to see some intelligent liberals going along with this, stating that "misinformation by Trump and his followers" makes it necessary to censor information on social media.

    When asked why it's never left-wing content being censored or given warning labels, they say, "That's because the left is always truthful."

    Ugh.

    When one side is begging for full and open free speech, and the other side is making excuses for censorship of the opposition, which one do you think is more trustworthy?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    The fact that people with corporate careers can't express right wing politics on their Twitter anymore, without risking their jobs, should be all you need to know about how cult-like each side really is.
    They still have this right. Any group or individual can state their beliefs.
    That freedom does not include support from any private concern.
    It obviously does not include support from a nation state.
    And when you say right wing politics you must be specific
    Policies that are not in the national interest will not be supported.
    Last edited by limitles; 12-03-2020 at 01:53 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post

    Politicians are the ultimate pussies for the most part. People move before politicians. The Dems are the constantly polling party. They didn’t move on gay marriage or marijuana on the state level until the majority of Americans agreed. Even Obamacare, it was a matter of how you asked the question. And it’s been increasing in popularity every year since.

    You’ll see an AOC type when her ideas are palatable to the American people. Where what she believes or someone like her is the majority opinion of the Dems and has a shot at being the majority opinion of the general election voter. Why the fuck run someone if they’re ideas poll at 30%?

    You know Republicans are insane because Trump was their choice at the top of the ticket. That says everything you need to know. That he eeked out an electoral college win says a lot about our country, most not good. It was really statistically improbable, but he got in. Thankfully America woke up, barely, and despite a shit candidate.
    Bernie would have been the nominee if the DNC hadn't intervened and screwed him.

    No drop out and endorsement from Kloubuchar and Buttigieg = No Biden

    They did the correct thing regarding beating Trump, as Biden was a much more palatable choice for swing voters who grew to dislike Trump. But without such intervention, the (Democratic) people would have chosen Bernie.

    That kinda kills your argument that the far left hasn't arrived yet.
    I view Bernie as a class struggle progressive concerned more with economic progressive policies. That isn’t something the repulses most of the public. People might disagree or agree with $15/minimum wage or universal healthcare, but Bernie wasn’t BLM and trans rights guy. He refused to play the whole race game, which is why they coalesced around Biden.

    I don’t even look at those two things as similar people. She, I’m pretty sure, has an unwillingness to distance herself from the shit Bernie would.

    If we are talking the shit Bernie likes like $15/min wage and universal health care, look at the exit polling of Trump people. They are for universal health care.

    So that’s palatable already. Yeah, someone could win on that. I consider that a way different beast than a leftist on all these social issues.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Cults don't always have to be violent.

    When they do get violent, it tends to be in attempt to protect their hold on ideological control. If you walk onto the compound of a traditional cult and try to deprogram the people there, there's a decent chance you'll be met with some sort of violence, even if it's clear you're unarmed and don't present a physical threat.

    Similarly, the woke left will engage in violence in order to prevent right-wing speakers from getting out their message on college campuses -- even milquetoast ones like Ben Shapiro.

    The right has no such equivalent. There is no real attempt to silence the other side.

    Regarding "constantly changing their thoughts to conform with their leader", that can be said about any rapidly changing political landscape. In 2005, how many people on the left were arguing for transgender 3-year-olds, full college loan debt cancellation, free college tuition everywhere, abortion-on-demand at 9 months, fully socialized medicine, black reparations, no cash bail, and defunding the police? Aside from a few extremists, probably very very few. Today none of these are considered outlier positions for the Democratic Party, and all of these positions were defended by major Democratic Presidential candidates in 2020.

    Trump's policies didn't differ too much from 2010 era mainstream Republican policy. There were some tweaks -- he was more isolationist, he was neutral on the LGBT stuff (a fact which is often overlooked), and he didn't want us in any new wars. Aside from that, it was pretty much Republican policy as usual. You claim that my politics have changed since Trump came into office, but they really haven't.


    Quote Originally Posted by BCR
    Cults do other things. They do this which I borrowed.

    Information control

    They practice deception
    They minimize or discourage access to non-cult sources of information
    They make extensive use of cult-generated information and propaganda
    The above is pretty much a perfect description of the Cult of the Woke Left.

    They are big advocates of cancel culture, and attempt to browbeat those with differing opinions to stay quiet.

    They are pro-censorship, excusing it as "fighting misinformation" or "silencing hate speech".

    They control or highly influence a large portion of the mass media and entertainment industry, and punish people in those organizations who don't go along with the accepted narrative. (This is why some of the completely insane trans stuff has been coddled for so long.)

    Doesn't that sound like your list above? If you don't believe this, how come longtime liberals like Noam Chomsky, Bill Maher, and countless others have sounded the alarm about this sort of behavior?


    Thought control

    They require members to internalize the group's doctrine as truth (black-and-white, good vs evil thinking).
    Again, this is a description of the Cult of the Woke Left, and not so much MAGA types.

    MAGA people push a fairly uniform narrative, but they have a fairly high tolerance for people who are mostly on their side but don't agree with everything. That's why I don't experience vicious, angry attacks on social media from MAGA types when I disagree, yet I get it all the time from leftists.

    If I were to have gone to a MAGA-infested Facebook group in late October 2020 and wrote, "Guys, I think you're incorrect about a lot of things, such as the way you've been treating COVID/masking, and your belief that Trump rarely does anything wrong. However, I'm a conservative like you, and I absolutely can't stand the left, so there's no question I'm still voting for Trump", what do you think would have happened?

    I'd get a few conspiratards trying to change my mind, and perhaps a few snide comments, but that would be it. For the most part, they'd be happy enough to see that I'm voting for Trump when it's all said and done, and that I'm mostly on their side.

    However, if you were to join a far-left group and disagree about BLM, defunding the police, and the current extreme trans movement, you would be called all kinds of horrible names, and told to get the fuck out. Even if you said you despite Trump and will never vote for a Republican for as long as you live, they still would be incredibly nasty to you.

    One side demands absolute conformity of belief systems, or you're judged almost as harshly as their opponents.

    The other side has conformity of belief systems, but is fairly tolerant of those from the outside who mostly agree but won't go along with some of the more extreme stuff.

    The fact that people with corporate careers can't express right wing politics on their Twitter anymore, without risking their jobs, should be all you need to know about how cult-like each side really is.
    I don’t like the Twitter element of the left, but it is an irrelevant portion. When Trump says to boycott the NFL, you couldn’t find the game on in the country because dear leader told them to boycott it. A bunch of drooling Steelers fans who have shit all over their house.

    When Fox News says something they don’t like, in one day they’re all telling each other where to find newsmax on cable and dish around here. I hear ten times in a day how Fox sucks now. The Trump cult are brain dead cultist morons who actually buy into this shit.

    If some leftist told me to boycott something, I’d laugh my ass off as I walked into the store.

    Why companies will bow to some twitter mob is moronic to me? I’ve never grasped why they do it unless the person actually is an asshole. I wouldn’t if I was a CEO. I’d guess they want to move in those woke circles in their personal lives and that’s why. No Dem I know would ever boycott someone for being transphobic or whatever. We’d be like gtfo of here if it was something or someone we liked.

    It’s corporate cowardice.

  15. #75
    Diamond dwai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Cults don't always have to be violent.

    When they do get violent, it tends to be in attempt to protect their hold on ideological control. If you walk onto the compound of a traditional cult and try to deprogram the people there, there's a decent chance you'll be met with some sort of violence, even if it's clear you're unarmed and don't present a physical threat.

    Similarly, the woke left will engage in violence in order to prevent right-wing speakers from getting out their message on college campuses -- even milquetoast ones like Ben Shapiro.

    The right has no such equivalent. There is no real attempt to silence the other side.

    Regarding "constantly changing their thoughts to conform with their leader", that can be said about any rapidly changing political landscape. In 2005, how many people on the left were arguing for transgender 3-year-olds, full college loan debt cancellation, free college tuition everywhere, abortion-on-demand at 9 months, fully socialized medicine, black reparations, no cash bail, and defunding the police? Aside from a few extremists, probably very very few. Today none of these are considered outlier positions for the Democratic Party, and all of these positions were defended by major Democratic Presidential candidates in 2020.

    Trump's policies didn't differ too much from 2010 era mainstream Republican policy. There were some tweaks -- he was more isolationist, he was neutral on the LGBT stuff (a fact which is often overlooked), and he didn't want us in any new wars. Aside from that, it was pretty much Republican policy as usual. You claim that my politics have changed since Trump came into office, but they really haven't.




    The above is pretty much a perfect description of the Cult of the Woke Left.

    They are big advocates of cancel culture, and attempt to browbeat those with differing opinions to stay quiet.

    They are pro-censorship, excusing it as "fighting misinformation" or "silencing hate speech".

    They control or highly influence a large portion of the mass media and entertainment industry, and punish people in those organizations who don't go along with the accepted narrative. (This is why some of the completely insane trans stuff has been coddled for so long.)

    Doesn't that sound like your list above? If you don't believe this, how come longtime liberals like Noam Chomsky, Bill Maher, and countless others have sounded the alarm about this sort of behavior?


    Thought control

    They require members to internalize the group's doctrine as truth (black-and-white, good vs evil thinking).
    Again, this is a description of the Cult of the Woke Left, and not so much MAGA types.

    MAGA people push a fairly uniform narrative, but they have a fairly high tolerance for people who are mostly on their side but don't agree with everything. That's why I don't experience vicious, angry attacks on social media from MAGA types when I disagree, yet I get it all the time from leftists.

    If I were to have gone to a MAGA-infested Facebook group in late October 2020 and wrote, "Guys, I think you're incorrect about a lot of things, such as the way you've been treating COVID/masking, and your belief that Trump rarely does anything wrong. However, I'm a conservative like you, and I absolutely can't stand the left, so there's no question I'm still voting for Trump", what do you think would have happened?

    I'd get a few conspiratards trying to change my mind, and perhaps a few snide comments, but that would be it. For the most part, they'd be happy enough to see that I'm voting for Trump when it's all said and done, and that I'm mostly on their side.

    However, if you were to join a far-left group and disagree about BLM, defunding the police, and the current extreme trans movement, you would be called all kinds of horrible names, and told to get the fuck out. Even if you said you despite Trump and will never vote for a Republican for as long as you live, they still would be incredibly nasty to you.

    One side demands absolute conformity of belief systems, or you're judged almost as harshly as their opponents.

    The other side has conformity of belief systems, but is fairly tolerant of those from the outside who mostly agree but won't go along with some of the more extreme stuff.

    The fact that people with corporate careers can't express right wing politics on their Twitter anymore, without risking their jobs, should be all you need to know about how cult-like each side really is.
    I don’t like the Twitter element of the left, but it is an irrelevant portion. When Trump says to boycott the NFL, you couldn’t find the game on in the country because dear leader told them to boycott it. A bunch of drooling Steelers fans who have shit all over their house.

    When Fox News says something they don’t like, in one day they’re all telling each other where to find newsmax on cable and dish around here. I hear ten times in a day how Fox sucks now. The Trump cult are brain dead cultist morons who actually buy into this shit.

    If some leftist told me to boycott something, I’d laugh my ass off as I walked into the store.

    Why companies will bow to some twitter mob is moronic to me? I’ve never grasped why they do it unless the person actually is an asshole. I wouldn’t if I was a CEO. I’d guess they want to move in those woke circles in their personal lives and that’s why. No Dem I know would ever boycott someone for being transphobic or whatever. We’d be like gtfo of here if it was something or someone we liked.

    It’s corporate cowardice.
    I agree with this post, but you're acting as if only Trump tards are retarded, there are people that watch and repeat everything cnn says, they question nothing, they're drones, just as much as the trumpers are cultists

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    Platinum mickeycrimm's Avatar
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    When I was in ICU last year one of the doctors got a kick out of me watching Fox News. After looking around to make sure the coast was clear he told me he held some conservative views. He moved to Montana from Washington where he said we were a little more reasonable. He said at his former hospital in Washington a doctor could be fired for switching the TV in the break room to Fox News.
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  17. #77
    Platinum mickeycrimm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwai View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Cults don't always have to be violent.

    When they do get violent, it tends to be in attempt to protect their hold on ideological control. If you walk onto the compound of a traditional cult and try to deprogram the people there, there's a decent chance you'll be met with some sort of violence, even if it's clear you're unarmed and don't present a physical threat.

    Similarly, the woke left will engage in violence in order to prevent right-wing speakers from getting out their message on college campuses -- even milquetoast ones like Ben Shapiro.

    The right has no such equivalent. There is no real attempt to silence the other side.

    Regarding "constantly changing their thoughts to conform with their leader", that can be said about any rapidly changing political landscape. In 2005, how many people on the left were arguing for transgender 3-year-olds, full college loan debt cancellation, free college tuition everywhere, abortion-on-demand at 9 months, fully socialized medicine, black reparations, no cash bail, and defunding the police? Aside from a few extremists, probably very very few. Today none of these are considered outlier positions for the Democratic Party, and all of these positions were defended by major Democratic Presidential candidates in 2020.

    Trump's policies didn't differ too much from 2010 era mainstream Republican policy. There were some tweaks -- he was more isolationist, he was neutral on the LGBT stuff (a fact which is often overlooked), and he didn't want us in any new wars. Aside from that, it was pretty much Republican policy as usual. You claim that my politics have changed since Trump came into office, but they really haven't.




    The above is pretty much a perfect description of the Cult of the Woke Left.

    They are big advocates of cancel culture, and attempt to browbeat those with differing opinions to stay quiet.

    They are pro-censorship, excusing it as "fighting misinformation" or "silencing hate speech".

    They control or highly influence a large portion of the mass media and entertainment industry, and punish people in those organizations who don't go along with the accepted narrative. (This is why some of the completely insane trans stuff has been coddled for so long.)

    Doesn't that sound like your list above? If you don't believe this, how come longtime liberals like Noam Chomsky, Bill Maher, and countless others have sounded the alarm about this sort of behavior?




    Again, this is a description of the Cult of the Woke Left, and not so much MAGA types.

    MAGA people push a fairly uniform narrative, but they have a fairly high tolerance for people who are mostly on their side but don't agree with everything. That's why I don't experience vicious, angry attacks on social media from MAGA types when I disagree, yet I get it all the time from leftists.

    If I were to have gone to a MAGA-infested Facebook group in late October 2020 and wrote, "Guys, I think you're incorrect about a lot of things, such as the way you've been treating COVID/masking, and your belief that Trump rarely does anything wrong. However, I'm a conservative like you, and I absolutely can't stand the left, so there's no question I'm still voting for Trump", what do you think would have happened?

    I'd get a few conspiratards trying to change my mind, and perhaps a few snide comments, but that would be it. For the most part, they'd be happy enough to see that I'm voting for Trump when it's all said and done, and that I'm mostly on their side.

    However, if you were to join a far-left group and disagree about BLM, defunding the police, and the current extreme trans movement, you would be called all kinds of horrible names, and told to get the fuck out. Even if you said you despite Trump and will never vote for a Republican for as long as you live, they still would be incredibly nasty to you.

    One side demands absolute conformity of belief systems, or you're judged almost as harshly as their opponents.

    The other side has conformity of belief systems, but is fairly tolerant of those from the outside who mostly agree but won't go along with some of the more extreme stuff.

    The fact that people with corporate careers can't express right wing politics on their Twitter anymore, without risking their jobs, should be all you need to know about how cult-like each side really is.
    I don’t like the Twitter element of the left, but it is an irrelevant portion. When Trump says to boycott the NFL, you couldn’t find the game on in the country because dear leader told them to boycott it. A bunch of drooling Steelers fans who have shit all over their house.

    When Fox News says something they don’t like, in one day they’re all telling each other where to find newsmax on cable and dish around here. I hear ten times in a day how Fox sucks now. The Trump cult are brain dead cultist morons who actually buy into this shit.

    If some leftist told me to boycott something, I’d laugh my ass off as I walked into the store.

    Why companies will bow to some twitter mob is moronic to me? I’ve never grasped why they do it unless the person actually is an asshole. I wouldn’t if I was a CEO. I’d guess they want to move in those woke circles in their personal lives and that’s why. No Dem I know would ever boycott someone for being transphobic or whatever. We’d be like gtfo of here if it was something or someone we liked.

    It’s corporate cowardice.
    I agree with this post, but you're acting as if only Trump tards are retarded, there are people that watch and repeat everything cnn says, they question nothing, they're drones, just as much as the trumpers are cultists
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post

    First off Obama isn’t a leftist. Only to loons. He was the drone guy who governed from the center more often.

    Also that he says it, and all of the Dem leadership agree with him, is why the right is a far bigger cult. You have to try to find some rare Republican willing to stand up and disagree when Trump says something idiotic. A Sasse or Romney.

    No Dem leadership puts that stuff forward. It’s from fringe figures living in the bluest areas of the country who have no national power.

    The leadership at the top of the Republican Party is in lockstep with a cult leader.

    Once again, you pointing out Obama said it is evidence of what not a cult it is. I’m taking about the Dem party. Not the leftist weirdos wanting 64 pronouns, yeah they’re a cult, just not an important one at this time.

    You old style republicans are going to realize the moment this is over that Trump is your party. People will be primaried or not at his whim. No one will be able to win without his blessing. If you’re an actual Republican, you should be hoping he ages quickly and passes on or goes to jail.
    Exactly, this fringe element is not the mainstream left/Democrats. Every Democratic presidential nominee since 1992 has been a firm centrist. Bill Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Obama, Hillary Clinton, Biden. Kerry slightly more left than the others but by no means a radical. By contrast the Republicans completely derailed their train in nominating Trump. Until then they had firmly center-right nominees, with W a bit farther right than all the others. The House swings more between ideologies, and the Senate does as well but less so, but in presidential elections the center determines the outcome. The Republicans set out on this path 40 years ago and they slowly created a monster and now it has come to life and is out to kill them like Frankenstein.
    In fairness they didn't exactly invite him with open arms. It was pretty much a hostile takeover. If anything, the main issue is that Americans (especially R voters) are just low information (dumb), so they were more easily manipulated by what is to the rest of us a very obvious con man.

  19. #79
    Platinum mickeycrimm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalam View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak View Post

    Exactly, this fringe element is not the mainstream left/Democrats. Every Democratic presidential nominee since 1992 has been a firm centrist. Bill Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Obama, Hillary Clinton, Biden. Kerry slightly more left than the others but by no means a radical. By contrast the Republicans completely derailed their train in nominating Trump. Until then they had firmly center-right nominees, with W a bit farther right than all the others. The House swings more between ideologies, and the Senate does as well but less so, but in presidential elections the center determines the outcome. The Republicans set out on this path 40 years ago and they slowly created a monster and now it has come to life and is out to kill them like Frankenstein.
    In fairness they didn't exactly invite him with open arms. It was pretty much a hostile takeover. If anything, the main issue is that Americans (especially R voters) are just low information (dumb), so they were more easily manipulated by what is to the rest of us a very obvious con man.
    Jobs going overseas.
    Illegals flooding into the country driving wages down and housing costs up.
    Healthcare premiums quadrupling on the working class with deductibles so high it can't be used unless catastrophic illness.
    High taxes stifling growth.
    Regulations strangling growth.
    Trade deals that had Americans taking it up the ass.
    Unelected bureaucrats and judges social engineering the country
    To many troops overseas
    NATO countries not paying their fair share.

    Democrats were giving carte blanche for all of the above to happen. Republicans payed lip service to ending it but when in power never made the moves. I wasn't just sick and tired of republicans paying lip service then backing off once in office. I was PISSED OFF TO HIGH HEAVEN!!!

    So Trump came along and "manipulated" us by saying he would do something about all of the above. The arrogance of the leftists of the world is their thinking we are low information voters. We actually have information overload. We seen all to many times, and had grown sick and tired of the Democrats putting America last....and establishment republicans paying lip service to cleaning it up but never acting on it. The working class had enough of the bullshit.

    And Trump did something highly extraordinary. He kept his campaign promises about doing something about it. I'll take Trump over corrupt democrats and establishment republicans any day. If you don't like it kiss off.
    Last edited by mickeycrimm; 12-03-2020 at 04:24 PM.
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