View Poll Results: Should Poker Fraud Alert change its rules to disallow gratuitous bigoted speech?

Voters
64. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, it's 2020 and there's no place for that shit anymore

    22 34.38%
  • No, I like the way the site is, leave things alone

    20 31.25%
  • Sort of -- only get rid of the really bad stuff, leave everything else

    20 31.25%
  • Don't know / don't care

    2 3.13%
Page 1 of 17 1234511 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 327

Thread: Direction of the forum -- how should I handle free speech in the 2020s?

  1. #1
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
    Reputation
    10110
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    54,627
    Blog Entries
    2
    Load Metric
    65720028

    Direction of the forum -- how should I handle free speech in the 2020s?

    Neverwinpoker started in 2004. It was the first "free speech" poker forum, where obscenity, porn, and bigoted epithets were allowed. The general concept was that adults in the poker community wanted a place to speak without worrying about what would be deleted for being offensive.

    It quickly became a big hit. While I didn't have a hand in starting it (that was Micon and Neverwin), I was the one who developed the free speech concept there. Micon had laughably started it to simply be a Neverwin fanboy site (lol), and I turned it into something else.

    Now here we are 16 years later. The world is a lot different than it was in 2004, as are some societal standards. As much as I've always supported free speech and freedom of expression online, I also have to acknowledge that we are in a different time period with different social expectations.

    I've taken a shitload of heat for the free speech environment here. Every WSOP, I have to explain to people why I don't delete threads wih blatant racism, homophobia, etc. When I'm done explaining, I still get looks of disgust, and I know I'm being judged as an awful human being.

    My name is known. I play live poker. I spend several weeks at the WSOP. I have to answer for what goes on here, and my real identity is very much associated with this site. I've never let people pressure me into doing something I don't want to do, but I also can't ignore that there are ramifications for allowing anonymous trolls to post shock material here.

    There's also the fact that the shock/hate speech is only a small fraction of the posts here. Most of the material in the forum does NOT contain that type of language. However, given the site's 8.5-year lifetime, these have added up over time. Removing the worst offending threads and setting some new guidelines going forward would have relatively little impact on the site.

    At the same time, part of me doesn't want to go down the rabbit hole of speech censorship. The rules right now are very straightforward and simple: Don't post personal info, don't post porn without spoiler tags, don't spam the forum with shit, don't threaten violence, and don't post anything illegal. That stuff is very concrete and easy to both communicate and enforce. Defining offensive speech is a big gray area I'd prefer not to get into.

    I'm really wavering on this. Part of me wants to clean up PFA somewhat, both for my personal reputation and to improve the site. Part of me also wants to tell the critics we can agree to disagree, and just leave things the way they've always been.

    Also, please note that I am NOT considering suppression of ideology. Left, right, and center viewpoints will all still be welcome here, as will controversial or extreme political beliefs (on either side).

    Please give your answer in the poll above.

  2. #2
    Gold MrTickle's Avatar
    Reputation
    429
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Moscow
    Posts
    1,721
    Load Metric
    65720028
    The format of this poll is flawed. Better as a runoff, because people who want some control of speech will be split between the two options. Like having a libertarian candidate to take half the votes of the Republicans, allowing a Democrat to swoop in with less than a majority.

    My vote:

    1. Some rules, but don't ban everything
    2. Remove it all
    3. Leave it as it is

  3. #3
    Plutonium big dick's Avatar
    Reputation
    1328
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    fuck krypt
    Posts
    11,566
    Load Metric
    65720028
    say whatever the fuck you want when you to who you want


    thats why i like PFA

     
    Comments
      
      dwai: good man
      
      shoeshine box: Word.100%.

  4. #4
    Platinum BetCheckBet's Avatar
    Reputation
    928
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    4,645
    Load Metric
    65720028
    The problem isn't the bigoted stuff. The problem is shitposting and constant flaming. It just so happens that shitposters tend to be more likely bigoted as well. I came back a few months ago and slowly realized realized that the most popular threads here were nearly unreadable because of the same 3-4 posters flooding the thread with crap that takes zero effort. I'm not sure if i just notice it more because i was away for so long. Many of them fall into the category of trump supporters or extreme left. They often seem to be attention seeking and just post total crap which has little value. But we do have posters on each side that can actually have a decent debate. Problem is they are completely drowned out and don;t see why anyone would bother trying to be part of such threads. The coronavirus thread has started to turn into this as well now. They've been allowed to ruin the forum and honestly I don't know what you do given how long its been going on for.

    Won't bother naming who those posters are but pretty sure druff can pinpoint 90% of them and it only takes about as much effort as they out into their posts (not the quantity).

     
    Comments
      
      Mdwst Hstlr: Spot on
      
      MumblesBadly: True dat true dat.
      
      Walter Sobchak: very much this

  5. #5
    Diamond dwai's Avatar
    Reputation
    1653
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    7,855
    Load Metric
    65720028
    Quote Originally Posted by BetCheckBet View Post
    The problem isn't the bigoted stuff. The problem is shitposting and constant flaming. It just so happens that shitposters tend to be more likely bigoted as well. I came back a few months ago and slowly realized realized that the most popular threads here were nearly unreadable because of the same 3-4 posters flooding the thread with crap that takes zero effort. I'm not sure if i just notice it more because i was away for so long. Many of them fall into the category of trump supporters or extreme left. They often seem to be attention seeking and just post total crap which has little value. But we do have posters on each side that can actually have a decent debate. Problem is they are completely drowned out and don;t see why anyone would bother trying to be part of such threads. The coronavirus thread has started to turn into this as well now. They've been allowed to ruin the forum and honestly I don't know what you do given how long its been going on for.

    Won't bother naming who those posters are but pretty sure druff can pinpoint 90% of them and it only takes about as much effort as they out into their posts (not the quantity).
    shut up fag, you should've went dark after you got clowned for talking to a dead man for 3 hours

     
    Comments
      
      MumblesBadly: You making betceheckbet’s case so super quicklike

  6. #6
    Diamond Sloppy Joe's Avatar
    Reputation
    1111
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    6,484
    Load Metric
    65720028
    Lol at caving to the SJWs.

    Joking aside, its really up to you. I'm 100% for free speech but it's led to nearly every big thread getting derailed eventually.

    Shitposting without being checked is the real problem.
    PokerFraudAlert...will never censor your claims, even if they're against one of our sponsors. In addition to providing you an open forum report fraud within the poker community, we will also analyze your claims with a clear head an unbiased point of view. And, of course, the accused will always have the floor to defend themselves.-Dan Druff

  7. #7
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
    Reputation
    10110
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    54,627
    Blog Entries
    2
    Load Metric
    65720028
    Quote Originally Posted by MrTickle View Post
    The format of this poll is flawed. Better as a runoff, because people who want some control of speech will be split between the two options. Like having a libertarian candidate to take half the votes of the Republicans, allowing a Democrat to swoop in with less than a majority.

    My vote:

    1. Some rules, but don't ban everything
    2. Remove it all
    3. Leave it as it is
    I should make it clear that this poll is for informational purposes only. It will help guide my decision, but the winning option isn't going to automatically become policy here.

  8. #8
    PFA Emeritus Crowe Diddly's Avatar
    Reputation
    1954
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    6,682
    Load Metric
    65720028
    You can very easily have a forum where you have a free exchange of ideas and opinions without allowing the slurs. Isn't the free exchange of ideas what you are looking for, or do you want a place where you can have a free exchange of ideas, AND call people any slur you feel like?

    15 years ago at NWP, it was "edgy." Now its just embarrassing, and it has been coloring people's opinions of you, and your forum, negatively, yourself for years. Do yourself and us a favor and make the small change. We're adults now, let's act like it.

     
    Comments
      
      sonatine: nwp=contrarian and edgy. pfa=screaming icebergs are fake as the titanic slips under the waves

  9. #9
    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
    Reputation
    7369
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    33,372
    Load Metric
    65720028
    the problem isnt disgusting, bigoted comments. the problem is disgusting bigoted people. this site is a living example of broken window theory. you can tell people they cant say 'n-word' or 'kike' or 'faggot' but thats not going to stop them from calmly expressing how badly they want fauci to die or how all lives matter or how antifa are spraying children with vaccines developed by gates to turn the fucking frogs gay etc etc. if its an awful toxic take thats trending on twitters botnets, 100 times out of 100 i know ill see it pop up here by nightfall.

    and we all know theres nothing at all that will ever be done to address this because at the end of the day you absolutely agree with the core political beliefs most of these people subscribe to.


    under His eye,

    sonatine.

     
    Comments
      
      lol wow: are you serious?
      
      dwai: this coming from the faggot who just said the other day "I don't care" go back to your safe space fag
      
      splitthis: Train
      
      some user: this is the simple reality.
      
      MumblesBadly: Whoa, there, big guy! Druff is NOT racist or a right-wing Trumptard! He said so himself
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  10. #10
    Diamond dwai's Avatar
    Reputation
    1653
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    7,855
    Load Metric
    65720028
    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    the problem isnt disgusting, bigoted comments. the problem is disgusting bigoted people. this site is a living example of broken window theory. you can tell people they cant say 'n-word' or 'kike' or 'faggot' but thats not going to stop them from calmly expressing how badly they want fauci to die or how all lives matter or how antifa are spraying children with vaccines developed by gates to turn the fucking frogs gay etc etc. if its an awful toxic take thats trending on twitters botnets, 100 times out of 100 i know ill see it pop up here by nightfall.

    and we all know theres nothing at all that will ever be done to address this because at the end of the day you absolutely agree with the core political beliefs most of these people subscribe to.


    under His eye,

    sonatine.
    you are awful, go back to your safe space faggot

    never ever have i seen such a hysterical woman point of view, all lives don't matter? antifa are literally burning down cities, fauci is a cock sucker, get over yourself fat boy

     
    Comments
      
      lol wow: 100 percent fair
      
      MumblesBadly: Again, proving his point. Well done.

  11. #11
    PFA Emeritus Crowe Diddly's Avatar
    Reputation
    1954
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    6,682
    Load Metric
    65720028
    Maybe think about doing something with dwai, too. The vast, overwhelming amount of his posts are just calling people names after they make a post about something else. He never adds anything worthwhile to any discussion, and he never intends to, either. He is the clearest example for why this board is trash, and is seen as trash by outsiders, for the most part.

     
    Comments
      
      Sheesfaced:
      
      MumblesBadly: Coge

  12. #12
    Platinum GrenadaRoger's Avatar
    Reputation
    448
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    2,635
    Load Metric
    65720028
    make flying stupidity a forum that requires a login to view

    plus display at sign-in a warning that some may find the content offensive

     
    Comments
      
      splitthis: Reasonable
    (long before there was a PFA i had my Grenade & Crossbones avatar at DD)

  13. #13
    Canadrunk limitles's Avatar
    Reputation
    1650
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    In Todd's head
    Posts
    17,648
    Blog Entries
    1
    Load Metric
    65720028
    Yes because there is no place for any racism. A person can make their viewpoints known, no matter how wrong, without resorting to the traditional hate phrases based on race

    Like the abuse of green and red reps some people use racist words or phrases because they can't articulate beyond that or simply for the shock value. This dumbs down the site.

  14. #14
    Plutonium lol wow's Avatar
    Reputation
    1082
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    10,568
    Load Metric
    65720028
    wtf is happening here

     
    Comments
      
      splitthis: Crybaby libs at it again

  15. #15
    Diamond dwai's Avatar
    Reputation
    1653
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    7,855
    Load Metric
    65720028
    Quote Originally Posted by Crowe Diddly View Post
    Maybe think about doing something with dwai, too. The vast, overwhelming amount of his posts are just calling people names after they make a post about something else. He never adds anything worthwhile to any discussion, and he never intends to, either. He is the clearest example for why this board is trash, and is seen as trash by outsiders, for the most part.
    cry more faggot, sorry you're not pfa's #1 poster anymore, maybe time to retire bitch boy

  16. #16
    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
    Reputation
    7369
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    33,372
    Load Metric
    65720028
    Quote Originally Posted by Crowe Diddly View Post
    Maybe think about doing something with dwai, too. The vast, overwhelming amount of his posts are just calling people names after they make a post about something else. He never adds anything worthwhile to any discussion, and he never intends to, either. He is the clearest example for why this board is trash, and is seen as trash by outsiders, for the most part.

    dont you dare. you can literally chart the rising amplitude of his posts and their cringe factor and it scales perfectly with the level of panic and despair in trump's cabinet.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  17. #17
    Diamond dwai's Avatar
    Reputation
    1653
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    7,855
    Load Metric
    65720028
    lol look at all these leftist loon fascists we have here trying to silence any opposing view points

    Sad!

  18. #18
    Diamond
    Reputation
    476
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    6,894
    Load Metric
    65720028
    Quote Originally Posted by lol wow View Post
    wtf is happening here

    Delete thread before it makes it to page 2

  19. #19
    Plutonium lol wow's Avatar
    Reputation
    1082
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    10,568
    Load Metric
    65720028
    So was going to get a haircut yesterday my barbershop out of business literally what the fuck

  20. #20
    Diamond dwai's Avatar
    Reputation
    1653
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    7,855
    Load Metric
    65720028
    Quote Originally Posted by lol wow View Post
    So was going to get a haircut yesterday my barbershop out of business literally what the fuck
    thanks Fauci!

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Greatest Speech Given By a US President
    By Krypt in forum Flying Stupidity
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 11-29-2019, 08:37 PM
  2. Are you for or against free speech?
    By MumblesBadly in forum Flying Stupidity
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 02-27-2016, 06:25 PM
  3. Fess Up if You've Had a Different Handle
    By gauchojake in forum Flying Stupidity
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: 04-12-2013, 10:23 AM
  4. PFA Free ALL the Banned Forum Members
    By Rollo Tomasi in forum Flying Stupidity
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: 12-12-2012, 03:58 PM

Tags for this Thread