Two important anniversaries today

[Dan Druff]

Important anniversary #1: On this date in 2009, a girl I hadn't seen since 1993 came to visit me in Las Vegas. Fourteen months later, she became the mother of my first child (and is still my current girlfriend). I did not realize it at the time, but August 14, 2009 ended up being the most important day of my life.

Important anniversary #2: On this date in 2011, Micon added a "Donate Button" to DD without consulting me about it first. Even worse, the donate button was just dropped onto the site without any explanation, making us look like beggars. This was just a week after Micon lectured me on the phone that I should never make any changes to the site (even minor ones) without consulting HIM first. I made a one-line reply complaining about not being consulted (in response to a thread started by a user asking about the Donate Button), and that started an incredible shitstorm where Micon and I argued publicly. On August 15th, Micon made his now-infamous "I CREATED THIS, DON'T FUCKING FORGET THAT" post.

Anniversary #2 is significant because "Donategate" was the catalyst to the end of my time on DD. It irreparably damaged the relationship between me and Micon, which had already been deteriorating. Just one month later, I was forced out of the site and sold my part on October 1st.

Had that not all happened, there would be no PFA.

Here is a snippet of the beginning of the public arguing:

1). The donate button $$$ goes to the site, obv. All donate $ will be put into the site 's bankroll, not my personal "bitcoin bankroll"

2). Druff finds fault in everything I have done in the past few weeks. This is a function of his personality more than anything. As the majority owner and creator of this site, taking steps to try and market and monitize this in the minor way of placing a donate button is my right. I should make more unilateral executive decisions than I currently do. Certainly all owners will have input after the fact, and I would never make major decisions without consulting everyone - but for small things like donate buttons and selling 1 hat on eBay, I'm going it alone without thinking twice.

1) You are not the majority owner of this site. Not even close. You own the most, but you don't have anywhere near 50% ownership here, so the "majority shareholder" argument fails.

2) When we created DD, we had a discussion on the phone regarding percentages. At the end, everyone let you have the biggest part, but with the agreement that we all still had equal decision-making power. Otherwise I never would have gone along with it. You agreed to this, and that's how we operated for a long time, so I'm not sure where this "I should make more unilateral decisions" thing comes from.

3) The Donate button isn't a major change, but it was surprising and unexpected to many, and we should have preceded it with an explanation, rather than just dropped it there and looked like beggars. That would have been my input had I been consulted.

4) The Donate button is definitely a more major change than consolidating a few never-used forums (like "Omaha Poker"), but you told me on the phone that you would have been pissed had I done it without consulting you. Honestly, unilateral decisions shouldn't be made here unless they are either extremely minor or if time is of the essence.

5) You say that I've had a problem with "everything" you've done in the past 2 weeks. While I have complained a lot over the past 2 weeks, let's look at the things I complained about:

- You abandoned me on your own radio show to do household chores. This was disrespectful to both me and the listeners.

- Right after I posted about the free hat giveaway, and that a few worthy members wouldn't be receiving one due to lacking inventory, you posted about an eBay auction involving "getting rid of junk in your house", where a DD hat was part of the auction! This contradicted what I said about the lacking inventory, and made us look like assholes.

- After yelling at me countless times about making changes on the site without getting your okay beforehand (and getting me to agree to always check with you first), you made two changes this week without consulting me.

So, yes, I think it was reasonable to complain about all of these.

you make me want to point the domain to failnation.com

1) I CREATED THIS, DON'T FUCKING FORGET THAT

2) You are pissed off about a 7-minute part of a good radio show, 1 DD hat being sold on eBay, and a donate button that is relatively standard on community driven sites like ours that have lots of traffic but trouble monetizing.

3) you make the site less fun and less profitable, and make me and many others not want to participate when your attitude is like this.

4) you love to have iron-fist control over this site, and frankly me and many others are sick of it. I have many close friends in Vegas that no longer post here because of you. There is no reason to name names, but most of you can likely figure it out.

5) It's Druff posts like these that make me think twice about how I could have taken DD by myself during the NWP split, given Druff and Brandon a minority share, and kept control of my baby. (Kingsfan is invaluable, as would need a badass programmer like him) but more and more as the years go on I am seeing Druff as a liability and someone I have to fight instead of someone that would help take this project to the next level. Druff, you spend your time bitching about dumb shit without helping figure out how to redesign the site so it doesn't look like 3rd grade and how to make some $ off the quite large amount of traffic we get.

Yes, it's all my fault that DonkDown didn't make you rich.

If only Bryan Micon had a chance to run this on his own, the site would have blown up huge and become a juggernaut in the world of poker.

Oh wait... what is that I'm hearing? We've already tried that? From 2004-2007? And then Micon sold it to Pokernews because it wasn't making him money? Ah, yes, I forgot about that!!!

Sure, I piss of people sometimes. Sure, I can be controversial. But you know what? I put a lot of effort into keeping things moving. I do a lot to keep the activity level going here. I bring a lot of interesting topics to discuss, even the ones (like the tomato on the side at Subway) where a lot of people bash me. The running joke about you is that the best way to keep a secret from Bryan Micon is to post it on his forum. So you can take another guess as to whether I've overall been an asset or a liability.

Also keep in mind that the biggest migration from this site in its history occurred because of you. Those same people now also hate me, but go back in the boris archives, and pretty much all of the posts in the first 2 weeks when everyone left blamed you for why they felt the site sucked. Seriously... go look it up. So this is completely absurd to be trying to paint a picture of a bustling, active site had I not gotten involved.

I am not trying to rule anything with an iron fist. This site has the fewest rules and fewest number of bannings of any poker forum out there.

I just want some consistency here.

If you are going to get on my ass for not consulting you when I make changes here, you can't go making "unilateral decisions" on your own because you are too lazy to call or text me first.

If you are going to do a radio show that thousands of people have grown to love, have respect for your co-host and listeners by not sneaking off to do household chores when a subject comes up that bores you.

If you are going to sell DonkDown hats on eBay auctions, do some thinking that it looks terrible when I just posted earlier, "There are a few more users I'd love to be sending a free hat, but we're out of inventory!"

The above are all reasonable concerns, but you are just intentionally missing the issues behind them, instead chirping back, "It's just an $8 hat!" or "The donate button was a good idea!"

Fighting with Druff is like wrestling with the pig, both get dirty and the pig likes it. Talk your shit in your novelish ways, we made way more $ before you got on board. keep typing, I'm going to mail some eBay items.

Micon, honest question about your pahtipication on this forum:

In 2011, do you think you've posted more interesting stuff to Twitter or DonkDown?

Answer that question while looking in the mirror, then say out loud, "Todd's the liability here" and see if you can keep a straight face.

Good times.

[gut]

Read the updated rules sir, that post seems like spam with a lot of mentions of another poker forum.

[limitles]

Druff you are in a unique position that all married men(assuming you plan on marriage) should have but few do.

The same marriage date as your child's birthday. You're guaranteed to always remember the wedding anniversary.

[Vwls]

I still harbor some sadness that the NWP/DD legacy ended the way it did. I also hold some irrational hope that Micon will come around, apologize for things, and repair the relationships that got damaged. Probably need to let go of that.

I'm very happy for you Druff, that the reappearance of this lovely lady into your life led to the most important job you'll ever have - raising your son. I have discovered first hand that having a child makes you a better person in so many ways, and makes life exponentially more meaningful.

Side note: I will be drinking two very delicious gourmet margaritas during radio tonight and would be willing to discuss both of these issues/anniversaries in greater depth.

Also, LOL at Gut.

[Dan Druff]

I still harbor some sadness that the NWP/DD legacy ended the way it did. I also hold some irrational hope that Micon will come around, apologize for things, and repair the relationships that got damaged. Probably need to let go of that.

I'm very happy for you Druff, that the reappearance of this lovely lady into your life led to the most important job you'll ever have - raising your son. I have discovered first hand that having a child makes you a better person in so many ways, and makes life exponentially more meaningful.

Side note: I will be drinking two very delicious gourmet margaritas during radio tonight and would be willing to discuss both of these issues/anniversaries in greater depth.

Also, LOL at Gut.

I can tell you that the relationship between me and Micon, and by extension the one between Brandon and Micon, will never be repaired.

Too much has happened.

I also wish that NWP just stayed NWP and didn't split off into a million pieces, but looking back on everything, all of this was inevitable.

[JUSTIFIEDhomicide]

The best line is that he said people weren't posting on his site from Vegas because you're a part of it.

Looks like they're really lining up to contribute since you've left....

[jsearles22]

LOL at anniversary #1 getting one paragraph and #2 getting significantly more. Hold grudges much Druff?

DD is a fail site, but radio has seen some remarkable guests lately.

[Dan Druff]

The best line is that he said people weren't posting on his site from Vegas because you're a part of it.

Looks like they're really lining up to contribute since you've left....

Yeah, that statement looks even more foolish now that I've been gone for almost a year.

I actually believe that a few people said this to him, but in reality were just tired of his site (or forums in general) and it was just a convenient excuse. The fact that none of them have returned to post regularly or semi-regularly since I left in October is pretty much proof of that.

Seriously though, if you ask Micon if NWP/DD would have done better if I had never been a part of it, he would tell you "Yes" with a straight face. He honestly believes that I brought more bad than good to that site, and that I was a lot of the factor holding it back from greatness.

I gave up trying to convince him otherwise, especially because it doesn't really matter anymore what he thinks about the situation.

[Dan Druff]

LOL at anniversary #1 getting one paragraph and #2 getting significantly more. Hold grudges much Druff?

DD is a fail site, but radio has seen some remarkable guests lately.

Anniversary #1 doesn't require a whole novel because there is no negativity/controversy associated with it, and nobody wants to read a page-long diatribe consisting of me gushing about my relationship or child.

I was telling Vwls yesterday on the phone that I'm going to be putting more effort into getting some decent guests on the show. I am not out and about in the Vegas poker scene as much as Micon, but I actually have a number of decent/good relationships with relevant poker players that I really should be using more to get radio interviews.

[Pooh]

LOL at anniversary #1 getting one paragraph and #2 getting significantly more. Hold grudges much Druff?

DD is a fail site, but radio has seen some remarkable guests lately.

Anniversary #1 doesn't require a whole novel because there is no negativity/controversy associated with it, and nobody wants to read a page-long diatribe consisting of me gushing about my relationship or child.

I was telling Vwls yesterday on the phone that I'm going to be putting more effort into getting some decent guests on the show. I am not out and about in the Vegas poker scene as much as Micon, but I actually have a number of decent/good relationships with relevant poker players that I really should be using more to get radio interviews.

Not one person here cares about interviews with any poker players besides Ivey, Hellmuth and maybe Mike the mouth.

[JUSTIFIEDhomicide]

Anniversary #1 doesn't require a whole novel because there is no negativity/controversy associated with it, and nobody wants to read a page-long diatribe consisting of me gushing about my relationship or child.

I was telling Vwls yesterday on the phone that I'm going to be putting more effort into getting some decent guests on the show. I am not out and about in the Vegas poker scene as much as Micon, but I actually have a number of decent/good relationships with relevant poker players that I really should be using more to get radio interviews.

Not one person here cares about interviews with any poker players besides Ivey, Hellmuth and maybe Mike the mouth.

Yes, because clearly you always speak for the majority with your fucked up opinions.

I don't even pay attention to poker, and I couldn't care less about the three people you named. Times are changing, and other people are becoming relevant, whether it be through twitter or whatever. New star players are emerging, and through radio is a way for them to get more and more exposure, and let listeners become familiar with their stories, and why they should be relevant.

Please do yourself a favor, and don't ever think you're speaking for anyone but yourself.

[jsearles22]

Anniversary #1 doesn't require a whole novel because there is no negativity/controversy associated with it, and nobody wants to read a page-long diatribe consisting of me gushing about my relationship or child.

I was telling Vwls yesterday on the phone that I'm going to be putting more effort into getting some decent guests on the show. I am not out and about in the Vegas poker scene as much as Micon, but I actually have a number of decent/good relationships with relevant poker players that I really should be using more to get radio interviews.

Not one person here cares about interviews with any poker players besides Ivey, Hellmuth and maybe Mike the mouth.

False

[Pooh]

Not one person here cares about interviews with any poker players besides Ivey, Hellmuth and maybe Mike the mouth.

False

lol, I forgot people here actually play poker. My bad.

[Dan Druff]

Here is my attitude about interviews of "name" poker players:

They have to be interesting.

It is NOT interesting to simply bring on a guy who has been winning a lot of money online, or just won a bracelet.

What do you say to him?

"So.... making a lot of money lately, huh?"

"Yup."

"Good job. Must be nice."

"Thanks."

That gets boring really quickly.

The good interviews are either:

1) "Character" types, such as Al "Sugar Bear" Barbieri or The Iceman.

2) Huge names in poker that everyone knows. These are always interesting simply because everyone has heard these names over and over, and people like hearing the "human" side to these players and learning more about them.

3) People who are relevant and in the news at the moment. This way you can make an interesting interview around the situation, not just the person.

4) People who are celebrities outside of poker, such as Orel Hershiser, Ray Romano, Shannon Elizabeth, Jennifer Tilly, etc.


Micon's biggest contribution to DD over its existence was his ability to get some good radio guests. You have seen an example of that again recently.

Unfortunately, he also got a lot of lousy/boring guests, and he also kissed way too much ass during the interviews themselves, always wanting me to play the "bad cop" role with the tough questions. I once confronted him about this (while we were still partners), and his answer was, "You're better at those sorts of questions, Druff." In reality, it was just easier for him to make me the heavy, while still remaining likable to people in poker.

[Pooh]

How about getting somebody like Haley Hintze on...she's a cunt so she probably won't come on but at least get elevengrover. What about Travis again? That would be interesting.

[Dan Druff]

How about getting somebody like Haley Hintze on...she's a cunt so she probably won't come on but at least get elevengrover. What about Travis again? That would be interesting.

Travis has gone silent and won't talk to anyone these days.

Eleven Grover will be coming on fairly soon.

Haley Hintze is brash and opionated, but I don't agree that she's a "cunt". She doesn't like coming on the radio that much, though, and prefers blogging/posting.

[JUSTIFIEDhomicide]

Isn't that the part of interviewing that makes it cool? You don't need a character. If you're a good interviewer you can ask the right questions to turn him into a character

[BetCheckBet]

Here is my attitude about interviews of "name" poker players:

They have to be interesting.

It is NOT interesting to simply bring on a guy who has been winning a lot of money online, or just won a bracelet.

What do you say to him?

"So.... making a lot of money lately, huh?"

"Yup."

"Good job. Must be nice."

"Thanks."

That gets boring really quickly.

The good interviews are either:

1) "Character" types, such as Al "Sugar Bear" Barbieri or The Iceman.

2) Huge names in poker that everyone knows. These are always interesting simply because everyone has heard these names over and over, and people like hearing the "human" side to these players and learning more about them.

3) People who are relevant and in the news at the moment. This way you can make an interesting interview around the situation, not just the person.

4) People who are celebrities outside of poker, such as Orel Hershiser, Ray Romano, Shannon Elizabeth, Jennifer Tilly, etc.


Micon's biggest contribution to DD over its existence was his ability to get some good radio guests. You have seen an example of that again recently.

Unfortunately, he also got a lot of lousy/boring guests, and he also kissed way too much ass during the interviews themselves, always wanting me to play the "bad cop" role with the tough questions. I once confronted him about this (while we were still partners), and his answer was, "You're better at those sorts of questions, Druff." In reality, it was just easier for him to make me the heavy, while still remaining likable to people in poker.

Agree with Druff 100% here.

[BetCheckBet]

Also while it is not in fashion I have to admit I still love the dd controversy. Nearly every major event on NWP involved some sort of controversy. While many people here would love to move on I still enjoy looking back at donkdown/nwp and seeing what it has become today.

[Fergie72]

I'm very happy for you Druff, that the reappearance of this lovely lady into your life led to the most important job you'll ever have - raising your son. I have discovered first hand that having a child makes you a better person in so many ways, and makes life exponentially more meaningful.

I hope this is true. Today will hopefully be a very important anniversary in my life as well. The wife and I did IVF today, this is by far the biggest 60/40 of my life!

ONE TIME!