Why I've been deleting threads and posts lately

[Dan Druff]

I should point out that there were two PFA spinoff sites in the past, both of which were handled respectfully, and neither of which did I object to.

Remember Venompoker?

Remember the now-infamous Vegaspokerradio?

I allowed both sites to be promoted here, even though they were clearly forums aimed at being similar to PFA. I didn't love seeing either of them, as we really don't need further fragmentation of the small community, but my attitude was that I would be supportive as long as they were respectfully handled and promoted.

They were, and therefore there was no issue. This one is different because the story kept changing the whole way.

First it was just a finance site which wouldn't compete with PFA at all.

Then all of a sudden it wasn't just a finance site, and indeed it was going to have a general section very similar to PFA's most active forum.

Then all of a sudden there's 3 threads spammed here telling people to leave this site and go over to the new forum.

Then there's a radio show with a lot of similarities to my show, and then that show is spammed here even after it was clear I was concerned how everything was being handled.

I would have to be a Grade A moron not to suspect that not the best motives were at play.

[Dan Druff]

Hi Druff, I'm about to go to sleep so I don't have time to break everything apart right now. This seems to be what you're most upset about so I will address it before I hit the hay.

It's true that Thomas spammed the site a month ago. He did it in an obnoxious way, and you told him to stop. That was clearly spam. What happened yesterday was not spam, or at least it's not what I would've even thought of as spam. We just made a thread about the upcoming radio show. I honestly didn't know just posting about a new show would be considered spam. By "don't spam anymore" we all took that to mean, don't obnoxiously make posts about the other site and tell people to go to the other site instead of PFA. That's totally reasonable. I didn't know you meant, don't even talk about the other site or mention projects you're involved in. I honestly would not consider that spam at all, but maybe we have different ideas of spam. It actually was discussed if you'd be ok with it, and the consensus was that you'd be fine with it. Especially since you said it's ok to mention the other site as long as it's not done in an annoying way. I didn't know you had changed your mind about that.

I can't deny that other people are purposefully trying to troll you and get under your skin. I don't like that, but I really can't control that either. I can only speak for myself. But I can say that making the radio thread was not intended to upset you or troll you.

Do you want to know the honest truth about why we didn't simply ask you first before we made a thread? We didn't do that because it's literally impossible to simply ask you something. There has to be a 4 hour discussion about it and you have to block off half a day. Case in point, this whole discussion we're having now. I wanted to have the zoom call with you right away but was told you need 48 hour notice before any internet meetings.

I never said I need 48 hour notice before internet meetings. I don't know where anyone got that idea. It was pitched to me, "How about we have a Zoom meeting on Thursday afternoon?", and I said, "Okay, let's do it."

I wouldn't have objected to sooner.

I actually believe that the radio thread wasn't meant to upset or troll me. I believe that you guys simply wanted to promote it (as part of the overall plan to get PFA's traffic on the other site), and that you were looking for the way to post it while making me the least upset.

It seems obvious to me that I wasn't asked because you were afraid the answer would be "no". So the decision was made to post it anyway, and the discussion was shifted to the way it could be done which would make me the least agitated by it.

Reminds me a bit of a hotel I stayed in several years ago. It was an extremely long, 2-story building, and my room was at the very end of the 2nd floor. The tilting thing was that my car was parked right below my room, but to get there I had to walk the entire length of the building, take the elevator down, and then walk all the way back. I noticed a service elevator right by my room, and that it could be called without a key. That service elevator would make things WAY more convenient regarding going to my car, but I knew I wasn't supposed to use it.

So guess what I did? I came up with a story in advance that I really thought it was okay to use that elevator, and didn't realize it was for employees only. Then I started using it, prepared the entire time to give the "I didn't mean to do anything wrong" excuse if I were caught.

I knew that if I simply asked them if I could use the service elevator, the answer would have been "no", so I decided to do it anyway and just have an excuse ready.

That's 100% what happened here.

As I said, disrespectful.

[RealTalk]

Hi Druff, I'm about to go to sleep so I don't have time to break everything apart right now. This seems to be what you're most upset about so I will address it before I hit the hay.

It's true that Thomas spammed the site a month ago. He did it in an obnoxious way, and you told him to stop. That was clearly spam. What happened yesterday was not spam, or at least it's not what I would've even thought of as spam. We just made a thread about the upcoming radio show. I honestly didn't know just posting about a new show would be considered spam. By "don't spam anymore" we all took that to mean, don't obnoxiously make posts about the other site and tell people to go to the other site instead of PFA. That's totally reasonable. I didn't know you meant, don't even talk about the other site or mention projects you're involved in. I honestly would not consider that spam at all, but maybe we have different ideas of spam. It actually was discussed if you'd be ok with it, and the consensus was that you'd be fine with it. Especially since you said it's ok to mention the other site as long as it's not done in an annoying way. I didn't know you had changed your mind about that.

I can't deny that other people are purposefully trying to troll you and get under your skin. I don't like that, but I really can't control that either. I can only speak for myself. But I can say that making the radio thread was not intended to upset you or troll you.

Do you want to know the honest truth about why we didn't simply ask you first before we made a thread? We didn't do that because it's literally impossible to simply ask you something. There has to be a 4 hour discussion about it and you have to block off half a day. Case in point, this whole discussion we're having now. I wanted to have the zoom call with you right away but was told you need 48 hour notice before any internet meetings.

PLOP, that was a lot of words. I'm not going to type as many words back, but I'll give responses to various points you raised.

I definitely can understand not wanting to have to read super long post after super long post and having to respond to all of it. That sort of thing can easily eat up a perfectly good day.

I’m confused and sure not going to read all those words. Remind me again, is Andy the trans woman fucker?

Close

The bottom line is you should have done the honorable thing and told him first before promoting your podcast that will be seen by dozens of people. This would have gone a long way.

A good example of this was when cmoney told druff in advance that he would be faking cancer via the PFA forum. That's how respectable people handle things.

[Walter Sobchak]

i think tyde should take the day off and grab a bottle of booze

He already does that every day.

[Walter Sobchak]

Anyway, let's be real here.

I'm 48 years old and have a family. Poker has been slowly dying each year. Poker forums are rapidly dying each year.

This is all antiquated 2000s shit which we are holding onto because it's familiar. That's also why most of us are old.

I'm not going to fight an endless war over this. If people want to leave and go to the other site, they can. If people want to post on both sites, they can. If people want to stay here and not go to the other site, they can. That's not my choice to make.

If this place becomes a ghost town, so be it. It has lasted over 8 years with consistent activity -- longer than any of the other sites in this community, even if you combine NWP and DD. The radio show has a mostly separate audience, most of whom don't even look at the forum. That will continue regardless. If this Flying Stupidity subforum contracts in activity because some people quit, so be it. I hope that doesn't happen, but if it does, that's just the way it goes.

I hope at the very least everyone can appreciate that I've run this forum mostly to continue the NWP community. I haven't cluttered it with ads, even though I could have. I have been mostly hands-off, and banned/restricted very few. I've allowed people to troll and bash me, provided it didn't get ridiculously obsessive or extreme. Clearly this wasn't a vanity project in any way. I just wanted to see everything continue in the spirit of the previous sites.

I have a few regrets about how some things went down here -- the cmoney thing being a big one -- but nobody's perfect. I have always run this place with good intentions and with the community in mind. I hope you at least believe that.

The choice is yours as to what you wish to do from this point. Less than two years ago, I was in a miserable state with almost zero quality of life, wondering if I would be stuck that way forever. I promised myself that if I somehow got out of it, I wouldn't let the little unimportant things bother me. I did get out of it, and I have reminded myself to keep that promise. Whatever ultimately happens here, I'm going to be at peace with it.

We disagree on some things but I appreciate all you put into this and the radio show, just so we can entertain each other a little every day. Thank you.

[Dan Druff]

Hi Druff, I'm about to go to sleep so I don't have time to break everything apart right now. This seems to be what you're most upset about so I will address it before I hit the hay.

It's true that Thomas spammed the site a month ago. He did it in an obnoxious way, and you told him to stop. That was clearly spam. What happened yesterday was not spam, or at least it's not what I would've even thought of as spam. We just made a thread about the upcoming radio show. I honestly didn't know just posting about a new show would be considered spam. By "don't spam anymore" we all took that to mean, don't obnoxiously make posts about the other site and tell people to go to the other site instead of PFA. That's totally reasonable. I didn't know you meant, don't even talk about the other site or mention projects you're involved in. I honestly would not consider that spam at all, but maybe we have different ideas of spam. It actually was discussed if you'd be ok with it, and the consensus was that you'd be fine with it. Especially since you said it's ok to mention the other site as long as it's not done in an annoying way. I didn't know you had changed your mind about that.

I can't deny that other people are purposefully trying to troll you and get under your skin. I don't like that, but I really can't control that either. I can only speak for myself. But I can say that making the radio thread was not intended to upset you or troll you.

Do you want to know the honest truth about why we didn't simply ask you first before we made a thread? We didn't do that because it's literally impossible to simply ask you something. There has to be a 4 hour discussion about it and you have to block off half a day. Case in point, this whole discussion we're having now. I wanted to have the zoom call with you right away but was told you need 48 hour notice before any internet meetings.



I definitely can understand not wanting to have to read super long post after super long post and having to respond to all of it. That sort of thing can easily eat up a perfectly good day.

I’m confused and sure not going to read all those words. Remind me again, is Andy the trans woman fucker?

Close

The bottom line is you should have done the honorable thing and told him first before promoting your podcast that will be seen by dozens of people. This would have gone a long way.

A good example of this was when cmoney told druff in advance that he would be faking cancer via the PFA forum. That's how respectable people handle things.

I know you're trolling me as usual here, but you actually hit on a good point and don't realize it.

cmoney didn't tell me in advance he was going to fake having cancer. That was one of my big problems with him.

Both the fake cancer and the fake death were posted about without consulting me first. Put me in a really terrible position. I've gone over all of this before. Had I been asked about either one, I wouldn't have allowed it.

[RealTalk]

Hi Druff, I'm about to go to sleep so I don't have time to break everything apart right now. This seems to be what you're most upset about so I will address it before I hit the hay.

It's true that Thomas spammed the site a month ago. He did it in an obnoxious way, and you told him to stop. That was clearly spam. What happened yesterday was not spam, or at least it's not what I would've even thought of as spam. We just made a thread about the upcoming radio show. I honestly didn't know just posting about a new show would be considered spam. By "don't spam anymore" we all took that to mean, don't obnoxiously make posts about the other site and tell people to go to the other site instead of PFA. That's totally reasonable. I didn't know you meant, don't even talk about the other site or mention projects you're involved in. I honestly would not consider that spam at all, but maybe we have different ideas of spam. It actually was discussed if you'd be ok with it, and the consensus was that you'd be fine with it. Especially since you said it's ok to mention the other site as long as it's not done in an annoying way. I didn't know you had changed your mind about that.

I can't deny that other people are purposefully trying to troll you and get under your skin. I don't like that, but I really can't control that either. I can only speak for myself. But I can say that making the radio thread was not intended to upset you or troll you.

Do you want to know the honest truth about why we didn't simply ask you first before we made a thread? We didn't do that because it's literally impossible to simply ask you something. There has to be a 4 hour discussion about it and you have to block off half a day. Case in point, this whole discussion we're having now. I wanted to have the zoom call with you right away but was told you need 48 hour notice before any internet meetings.



I definitely can understand not wanting to have to read super long post after super long post and having to respond to all of it. That sort of thing can easily eat up a perfectly good day.


Close

The bottom line is you should have done the honorable thing and told him first before promoting your podcast that will be seen by dozens of people. This would have gone a long way.

A good example of this was when cmoney told druff in advance that he would be faking cancer via the PFA forum. That's how respectable people handle things.

I know you're trolling me as usual here, but you actually hit on a good point and don't realize it.

cmoney didn't tell me in advance he was going to fake having cancer. That was one of my big problems with him.

Both the fake cancer and the fake death were posted about without consulting me first. Put me in a really terrible position. I've gone over all of this before. Had I been asked about either one, I wouldn't have allowed it.

Once that horse was out the barn your logic told you to just go with it huh?

[Dan Druff]

The bottom line is you should have done the honorable thing and told him first before promoting your podcast that will be seen by dozens of people. This would have gone a long way.

A good example of this was when cmoney told druff in advance that he would be faking cancer via the PFA forum. That's how respectable people handle things.

I know you're trolling me as usual here, but you actually hit on a good point and don't realize it.

cmoney didn't tell me in advance he was going to fake having cancer. That was one of my big problems with him.

Both the fake cancer and the fake death were posted about without consulting me first. Put me in a really terrible position. I've gone over all of this before. Had I been asked about either one, I wouldn't have allowed it.

Once that horse was out the barn your logic told you to just go with it huh?

No, but cmoney kept begging me not to reveal the truth, and said that if I did so, it would embolden those harassing him and his family even more. I didn't want to see that happen, so I trusted him to disappear gracefully, even if I wasn't thrilled about the fake cancer thing.

Then the fake death thing happened. That part of it occurred as I was going through intense anxiety, depression, and anhedonia due to a chemical imbalance in my brain. It was the worst period of my life, and the cmoney issue was the last thing I wanted to deal with. I was very upset and refused to go along with it or verify it. I was just about to force myself to sit down and compose an e-mail to cmoney demanding him to own up to it being a hoax, and I saw that he had already come out and admitted it. The reason he admitted it was most likely because I wouldn't verify it, nor would Brandon, and everyone saw that as a huge hole in the story.

[nutty007]

I fully understand Druff's frustration with this as unfortunately this type of forum/ site will attract many people with no scruples but i just wanted to state personally that the main reason i frequent this site and listen to the radio show on an almost religious basis is because of Druff.

People can copy and plagarise the forum and even produce their own radio shows but no one will compete and if history is a precedent then these other 'competing' sites will eventually wither and die.

I think it's a shame others have done this as the community is to small to be splintered but i for one have no interest in going elsewhere both in terms of content and bizarre sense of loyalty for the 10+ years i have been entertained.

Anyway...keep up the sites good work, keep doing fantastic radio shows and dont let the buggers grind you down, you will prevail.

Take care and stay safe

[RealTalk]

I know you're trolling me as usual here, but you actually hit on a good point and don't realize it.

cmoney didn't tell me in advance he was going to fake having cancer. That was one of my big problems with him.

Both the fake cancer and the fake death were posted about without consulting me first. Put me in a really terrible position. I've gone over all of this before. Had I been asked about either one, I wouldn't have allowed it.

Once that horse was out the barn your logic told you to just go with it huh?

No, but cmoney kept begging me not to reveal the truth, and said that if I did so, it would embolden those harassing him and his family even more. I didn't want to see that happen, so I trusted him to disappear gracefully, even if I wasn't thrilled about the fake cancer thing.

Then the fake death thing happened. That part of it occurred as I was going through intense anxiety, depression, and anhedonia due to a chemical imbalance in my brain. It was the worst period of my life, and the cmoney issue was the last thing I wanted to deal with. I was very upset and refused to go along with it or verify it. I was just about to force myself to sit down and compose an e-mail to cmoney demanding him to own up to it being a hoax, and I saw that he had already come out and admitted it. The reason he admitted it was most likely because I wouldn't verify it, nor would Brandon, and everyone saw that as a huge hole in the story.

What are you more upset about - cmoney faking cancer and death or REDACTED niche forum/podcast aimed at a few dozen users without properly asking for your blessing?

[Zap_the_Fractions_Giraffe]

the other website will never overtake PFA, don't worry about it.

[splitthis]

I think he knows that, probably more hurt of those showing their true character, that’s why they will fail, a long line of fails for Thomas for sure.

[MumblesBadly]

I think he knows that, probably more hurt of those showing their true character, that’s why they will fail, a long line of fails for Thomas for sure.

Now, be fair. His parody music videos and trolling GIFs were great. And his billboard idea to troll Daniel Negreanu over his “More rake is better” claim was epic. But his whiney passive-aggressive snowflakish dishonesty is unbecoming for someone his age.

[4BET]

For the record I have never been to the new site but did get a invite, This shows how desperate the “new site” is to steal PFA members, I have always known tine and thomas are sneaky dirt bag snakes, So not surprised they are doing dirty back handed things to try and overthrow pfa

[MumblesBadly]

For the record I have never been to the new site but did get a invite, This shows how desperate the “new site” is to steal PFA members, I have always known tine and thomas are sneaky dirt bag snakes, So not surprised they are doing dirty back handed things to try and overthrow pfa

I can understand some of their frustrations, but both seem quite snowflakish when it comes to criticism. And that reminds me of someone quite famous at least one of them has repeatedly (and appropriately) skewered on this forum or such behavior. I won’t specifically mention who that is or what he frequently does at his golf resorts on the taxpayers dime to avoid distracting from this thread’s topic, but it does seem a bit hypocritical.

[Dan Druff]

For the record I have never been to the new site but did get a invite, This shows how desperate the “new site” is to steal PFA members, I have always known tine and thomas are sneaky dirt bag snakes, So not surprised they are doing dirty back handed things to try and overthrow pfa

Can you please describe this invite? Was it on here? How did they get it to you? What did it say?

[blake]

Crybaby tommy sux lol so fucking funny. Tine ya gotta quit talking out of both sides of your ass.

for years you and tine have been acting like a married couple.

you hate him now just cause of politics?

[blake]

on and PLOP is spitthis? how was that an open secret?

[JeffDime]

I discovered Druff’s show probably a year and half ago now. I think it was mentioned in some poker article and my first thought was “Holy Shit, is the show really 7 hours long?” As we all know, luckily there were time-stamps, and I listened to the portion of the show cited in the article. Beyond the length and the thoroughness of covering each topic, there was just something different about the show that hooked me in from the start. I went to listen to the latest show and became a regular listener from then on.

I knew of a Druff as the top limit player he was and remains today. I was kind of amazed I did not find the show 6 years prior when it started, but that is probably both from a shockingly low lack of mainstream poker attention & myself disconnecting with the gambling community for a while in my early thirties. Nevertheless, I found it and I’m glad I did. There is rarely a topic that I am not at least somewhat interested in.

I was aware of the forum, but figured I never been part of a forum in my life and it wouldn’t be something for me to start at this stage in my life . I would order a la carte and just stick to the radio show. Then the pandemic came and I found myself joining the forum and starting a thread. I know that thread is polarizing, but it has certainly been entertaining for many and actually has brought some new members to this forum.

I stay in my lane mostly and don’t venture out into the many threads in Flying Stupidity that often. I will check it out from time to time and see members who have built a rapport, whether it be as allies or adversaries, going back and forth. Sometimes I wish there were cliff notes to get me up to speed on the various alliances, beefs, etc. Then there are times I am glad to not know. I see Druff being used as a human piñata on his own site that he has put so much time, effort & money in so that posters can have the opportunity to do so.

For the most part I see posters enjoying the back and forth & being a part of this forum. A very unique place without question. A niche place, that has been able to survive almost completely by the efforts of one man. Druff is right, there is not room for 2 of these and it seems time has shown that to be the case. Those who make statements regarding the political discourse on the site devolving, can you please point me to a place on the internet where both sides are represented and that is not the case? I haven’t been able to find one.

For the sake of this post, I will choose to believe that this other site was created as a place for financial topics. That there was no grand plan of using that as a trojan horse to create essentially a shadow PFA. However, there is no doubt, regardless of initial intention, the similarities are now unmistakable. The journey to how it got there is now almost immaterial.

I would of struck those threads down just like Druff did in his position. Without a doubt it was super disrespectful and I can’t help to connect the timing with Druff just about to start a marathon radio show. I’m glad he moved the show to deal with this. Also, I don’t know what this ruling was 2 years ago that Druff made but if people disagreed with it so bad they stopped posting on their known accounts, to come and use those accounts out of the blue to try and promote a show would piss me the fuck off as well.

It just comes off as completely disrespectful. You couldn’t even make it look not so obvious and start posting on those accounts for a few weeks before polishing them off when it suits your self-interest? Kind of like the friend that only calls when they need a favor.

I know there are two sides to every story, but I have no reason to not fully trust Druff’s account. It is still my hope that this can be squashed. I hope you all are able to come to an understanding. I will stay here no matter what is decided.

[Krypt]

stfu noob