ESPN just announced their top 10 NBA players of all time

[tgull]

The list is ok, the order is out of whack.

Wilt really should be #2. Also Larry Bird really should be replaced with Julius Erving but maybe Julius gets dinged since a lot of his best years were ABA. Also there needs to be a 10a and 10b. Shaq is fine, but Moses Malone needs to be included.

Shame Bill Walton could not stay healthy with his feet. Before my time but old timers say he was poised to be one of the best ever but simply could not stay healthy. Finally a decent article by ESPN, they really have been struggling with content the last month.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...s-all-nos-10-1

[Walter Sobchak]

LOL@ Kobe, Shaq and Duncan being in the top 10 and Oscar Robertson, Elgin Baylor and Dr. J not.

[tgull]

One more thing, it's great to see Kareem getting his due over Magic. Magic was great but a lot of his success was based on Kareem in the middle. I think the reason Magic got so much ink over Kareem was due to the whole + thing. And also by all accounts Kareem was simply unlikable by just about everyone.

[nightmarefish]

One more thing, it's great to see Kareem getting his due over Magic. Magic was great but a lot of his success was based on Kareem in the middle. I think the reason Magic got so much ink over Kareem was due to the whole + thing. And also by all accounts Kareem was simply unlikable by just about everyone.

Kareem in the middle was why Magic succeeded? LMFAO. Magic's rookie year Kareem got hurt and Magic played center to lead the Lakers to the championship without Kareem.

[Sloppy Joe]

I usually love ranked lists but comparing athletes from different eras is impossible.

Few people alive can have an opinion on dudes like Bill Russell and George Mikan, as next to nobody saw them play and the competition was not the same.

Even from the 90's, the league was so different. This Jordan doc going on reminded me that final scores like 80-78 were not uncommon; how to compare to today's three-heavy game?

Even their more modern rankings are weird - Durant is better than Curry, Barkley was better than Pippen, Nash/Kidd/CP3 all were better than Iverson.

[tgull]

I usually love ranked lists but comparing athletes from different eras is impossible.

Few people alive can have an opinion on dudes like Bill Russell and George Mikan, as next to nobody saw them play and the competition was not the same.

Even from the 90's, the league was so different. This Jordan doc going on reminded me that final scores like 80-78 were not uncommon; how to compare to today's three-heavy game?

Even their more modern rankings are weird - Durant is better than Curry, Barkley was better than Pippen, Nash/Kidd/CP3 all were better than Iverson.

Not sure about that. Maybe for a year or two, but not over the their careers.

[nightmarefish]

I usually love ranked lists but comparing athletes from different eras is impossible.

Few people alive can have an opinion on dudes like Bill Russell and George Mikan, as next to nobody saw them play and the competition was not the same.

Even from the 90's, the league was so different. This Jordan doc going on reminded me that final scores like 80-78 were not uncommon; how to compare to today's three-heavy game?

Even their more modern rankings are weird - Durant is better than Curry, Barkley was better than Pippen, Nash/Kidd/CP3 all were better than Iverson.

Not sure about that. Maybe for a year or two, but not over the their careers.

Year or two? You drunk? Chuck was either first or second team all NBA 10 times. He won an MVP and should have won another (got robbed by Magic sometime in the 80s). Pippen wasn't an MVP caliber player. You better go check the tape.

[tgull]

Not sure about that. Maybe for a year or two, but not over the their careers.

Year or two? You drunk? Chuck was either first or second team all NBA 10 times. He won an MVP and should have won another (got robbed by Magic sometime in the 80s). Pippen wasn't an MVP caliber player. You better go check the tape.

Yo, they were on completely different teams. One had Jordan and the other just had Barkley. He never transformed a franchise, neither did Pippen, but Pippen had an excuse because he played with Jordan and did not have to. It's a tough call for sure but it is a coin flip. As far as MVP, it would have been impossible for anyone to win an MVP with Jordan on the same team. This is kind of like a running back winning an MVP with Tom Brady on the team. It just is not going to happen.

[nightmarefish]

Year or two? You drunk? Chuck was either first or second team all NBA 10 times. He won an MVP and should have won another (got robbed by Magic sometime in the 80s). Pippen wasn't an MVP caliber player. You better go check the tape.

Yo, they were on completely different teams. One had Jordan and the other just had Barkley. He never transformed a franchise, neither did Pippen, but Pippen had an excuse because he played with Jordan and did not have to. It's a tough call for sure but it is a coin flip. As far as MVP, it would have been impossible for anyone to win an MVP with Jordan on the same team. This is kind of like a running back winning an MVP with Tom Brady on the team. It just is not going to happen.

If he never played with Jordan he still wouldn't have ever been in the MVP discussion. Barkley was in the MVP discussion several years. When Jordan was off playing baseball they wouldn't even give him the ball for the last shot.

[tgull]

Yo, they were on completely different teams. One had Jordan and the other just had Barkley. He never transformed a franchise, neither did Pippen, but Pippen had an excuse because he played with Jordan and did not have to. It's a tough call for sure but it is a coin flip. As far as MVP, it would have been impossible for anyone to win an MVP with Jordan on the same team. This is kind of like a running back winning an MVP with Tom Brady on the team. It just is not going to happen.

If he never played with Jordan he still wouldn't have ever been in the MVP discussion. Barkley was in the MVP discussion several years. When Jordan was off playing baseball they wouldn't even give him the ball for the last shot.

Stats don't lie, like I said different teams, but one guy has a half dozen rings, the other guy has none.

Season MVP
Charles Barkley
1
Scottie Pippen
0
All-NBA First Team
Charles Barkley
5
Scottie Pippen
3
All-NBA Teams
(Total Selections)
Charles Barkley
11
Scottie Pippen
7
All-Defensive 1st Team
Charles Barkley
0
Scottie Pippen
8
All-Defensive Teams
(Total Selections)
Charles Barkley
0
Scottie Pippen
10
NBA Championships
Charles Barkley
0
Scottie Pippen
6

NBA Seasons
Charles Barkley
16
Scottie Pippen
17


Playoffs Played
Charles Barkley
13
Scottie Pippen
16

All-Star Games
Charles Barkley
11
Scottie Pippen
7

[Dan Druff]

If this coronavirus thing hadn't happened, we'd have been able to better see who wins the Lebron vs Jordan debate.

Jordan retired at 35 (we won't count this first "retirement" to laughably try to play baseball), and then came back 3 years later as a shadow of his former self to play for the Wizards.

Lebron is 35 now. He was having an excellent season with the Lakers, and seemed to have at least a few more great years ahead of him. If he continued to dominate for years after turning 35, I'd say he would rank above Jordan.

Also, Lebron playing since age 18 has to be taken into account. While many other players who started the NBA at 18 have broken down earlier (including, sadly, Kobe), Lebron was still kicking ass. The guy seems superhuman at times.

[nightmarefish]

If he never played with Jordan he still wouldn't have ever been in the MVP discussion. Barkley was in the MVP discussion several years. When Jordan was off playing baseball they wouldn't even give him the ball for the last shot.

Stats don't lie, like I said different teams, but one guy has a half dozen rings, the other guy has none.

Season MVP
Charles Barkley
1
Scottie Pippen
0
All-NBA First Team
Charles Barkley
5
Scottie Pippen
3
All-NBA Teams
(Total Selections)
Charles Barkley
11
Scottie Pippen
7
All-Defensive 1st Team
Charles Barkley
0
Scottie Pippen
8
All-Defensive Teams
(Total Selections)
Charles Barkley
0
Scottie Pippen
10
NBA Championships
Charles Barkley
0
Scottie Pippen
6

NBA Seasons
Charles Barkley
16
Scottie Pippen
17


Playoffs Played
Charles Barkley
13
Scottie Pippen
16

All-Star Games
Charles Barkley
11
Scottie Pippen
7

Yes we get it,, Pippen was a better defensive player. LMFAO. He's more in line with Klay Thompson as a player. Great player but can't hang with the MVP level players of the league.

[blake]

pippen would be viewed as a slightly better andre iguodala if not for jordan.

decent player, one or two all star games but not an all time great.

[thesidedish]

Lebron over MJ is ridiculous. MJs peers talk about him like hes god, lechokes peers beat him in the finals 6x

[jsearles22]

pippen would be viewed as a slightly better andre iguodala if not for jordan.

decent player, one or two all star games but not an all time great.

Disagree entirely. Here is an excerpt about Pippen the 2 years Jordan was my playing baseball:

“ STATS: 21.8 PPG 8.5 RPG 6.0 APG .479 FG%

After making three All-Star games, two All-NBA teams and winning three NBA titles, Pippen would have to take the defending champions under his wing after Michael Jordan announced his first retirement from the NBA in 1993. While Michael Jordan was playing minor league baseball, Scottie Pippen would have his best NBA season averaging 22 points, 8.7 rebounds and 2.9 steals per game. Pippen showed how much of an elite player he could be in the league, even without 3x MVP Michael Jordan leading the Bulls.

It would become clear that with 34-year-old Dominique Wilkins having his last dominant NBA season, Scottie Pippen would take the crown as the best small forward in the NBA. Earning his first All-NBA 1st team honor and finishing 3rd in MVP voting.”

[tgull]

Pippen, like Barkley was part of the top 50 of all time players. One played with Jordan the other did not. Stats can get skewed either way under than scenario. But the bottom line is Barkley has more in common to Patrick Ewing, neither player could carry their team to a championship. A lot like Dan Marino in the NFL. Great players for sure, but just never could get over the proverbial hump. We'll never know if Pippen would have been in the same category, but to have 6 rings is still a lot and I doubt anyone believes Jordan would have won 6 without Pippen. Maybe 2 or 3.

[nightmarefish]

pippen would be viewed as a slightly better andre iguodala if not for jordan.

decent player, one or two all star games but not an all time great.

Disagree entirely. Here is an excerpt about Pippen the 2 years Jordan was my playing baseball:

“ STATS: 21.8 PPG 8.5 RPG 6.0 APG .479 FG%

After making three All-Star games, two All-NBA teams and winning three NBA titles, Pippen would have to take the defending champions under his wing after Michael Jordan announced his first retirement from the NBA in 1993. While Michael Jordan was playing minor league baseball, Scottie Pippen would have his best NBA season averaging 22 points, 8.7 rebounds and 2.9 steals per game. Pippen showed how much of an elite player he could be in the league, even without 3x MVP Michael Jordan leading the Bulls.

It would become clear that with 34-year-old Dominique Wilkins having his last dominant NBA season, Scottie Pippen would take the crown as the best small forward in the NBA. Earning his first All-NBA 1st team honor and finishing 3rd in MVP voting.”

Barkley could legit get 21 and 8 in his sleep.

[BCR]

The argument for Pippen is there is two sides of the ball and he was the best perimeter defensive player of his era, and top 2 maybe ever. Barkley was a great player . One of a few guys whose numbers hold up really well in advanced stats era. If I had to draft one today Pippen translates much better, but that’s a harder call because Pippen had to defer so frequently. That Iverson ranking was laughable. Loved to watch him play but it wasn’t conducive to winning. He had that one run when the East was really bad.

The Magic-Bird era was the golden era. It went from being tape delayed to being so popular they added six expansion teams during Jordan’s era. It just diluted the league. Population v number of teams matters. Anyone playing now plays on the same number of teams as there was in Jordan years with 80 million more people. Two extra Californias isn’t insignificant. Then you add the global recruiting of a Masai and just the much elevated international play. They send real players now from everywhere. I would guess close to twice as many kids are playing basketball against high level competition as when Jordan was drafted in a league with the same amount of teams as when he quit and tbh, it’s hard to find a black kid playing baseball anymore. It’s straight football and basketball with their dream being basketball. Football is even dying a bit with the concussion thing.

Jordan never faced anything like those Spurs teams, no one has faced anything close to those Golden State teams. He played great teams early in his career that he didn’t get by. That last year Magic who was sick and retired the following year and Worthy at his peak and little else wasn’t a great team. KAJ had retired. All the Celtics were done. I think I enjoyed him trying to get through the Pistons more than any final. When you think of Bird or Magic or LeBron they had natural finals opponents. In LeBron’s case a few different sets of them in Spurs and Golden State. Jordan had that early in his career in ECF but the finals were almost anti-climatic.

That’s the only knock on Jordan. Watered down. All the way through Iverson when it was rock bottom. The most legit knock on LeBron is that Mavs series. For a guy who was always at his best in the post season, that was a mental collapse. That Mavs team was nice, but that shouldn’t have happened.

I don’t love this 3 ball era, I liked something that was a better blend. I loved those Knicks Riley Starks teams, but they weren’t great teams. I just liked how nasty they were. Pistons the same, better team, except less likable.

I hate this no defense league, but so much is impossible to defend. How do you defend a team moving the ball and a Durant shooting from 24 feet? That step back Harden garbage?

No team I’ve ever seen could have defended those Golden State teams. Jordan Bulls would have been best equipped with Pippen and Jordan, but Golden State had two other all stars. Durant broke the league there for a few years.

Always love the debates but it’s impossible.

[Daly]

The list is ok, the order is out of whack.

Wilt really should be #2. Also Larry Bird really should be replaced with Julius Erving but maybe Julius gets dinged since a lot of his best years were ABA. Also there needs to be a 10a and 10b. Shaq is fine, but Moses Malone needs to be included.

Shame Bill Walton could not stay healthy with his feet. Before my time but old timers say he was poised to be one of the best ever but simply could not stay healthy. Finally a decent article by ESPN, they really have been struggling with content the last month.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...s-all-nos-10-1

Didn’t watch a lot of NBA in the 80s then I take it?

Anyone saying Bird should be off the top 10 list is dead wrong.

[Krypt]

I usually love ranked lists but comparing athletes from different eras is impossible.

Few people alive can have an opinion on dudes like Bill Russell and George Mikan, as next to nobody saw them play and the competition was not the same.

Even from the 90's, the league was so different. This Jordan doc going on reminded me that final scores like 80-78 were not uncommon; how to compare to today's three-heavy game?

Even their more modern rankings are weird - Durant is better than Curry, Barkley was better than Pippen, Nash/Kidd/CP3 all were better than Iverson.