New rules for PFA *** PLEASE READ ***

[Dan Druff]

With growth of a forum comes the inevitable problems, and this place is no exception. After everything ran fairly smoothly for the first four months (with the exception of some early technical issues), I knew that problems were likely around the corner. It's kind of like playing a long cash session and not taking a single bad beat or cooler. You know it can't last.

Over the past few weeks, we've had two problems here:

1) False or unsubstantiated accusations of fraud against regular users.

2) "Bombing" of the forum with pornography by dupe accounts.

I'll get to the easier one first -- the bombing.

Many of you have suggested that I appoint mods. Others have volunteered to be mods. While I appreciate the suggestions and the offers to help, I am going to hold steady to my original plan of having no mods.

So, without these mods, how can I prevent the forum being bombed with gay pornography every morning?

It's not hard to prevent this at all. I have already installed measures here to prevent against that, and when I have more time, I will put in further preventative measures. All of this will be invisible to the regular user, and won't affect anyone besides those trying to do this place harm.

I am also going to write a program that allows a few very trusted individuals to "clean up" such bombings, without giving them access to ANY of the user information or admin functions.

I can't promise that there won't be more of these bombings, but they will be decreasing in number, and will soon be all but gone.


Now... onto the harder part: The false/unsubstantiated accusations.

I started PokerFraudAlert to enable anyone to call out anyone else in poker that cheated them. The accusations can be against a company, a casino, an individual, an online site, a tournament series, etc. Basically, if you got ripped off in any way related to poker, I wanted this to be the place where you could show up and tell your story.

That's still what I want.

However, there is a fine line between reasonable accusation and libel/defamation.

I want to allow users here to accuse others of wrongdoing (whether these "others" are members here or not), but I also don't want this forum to be used as a springboard to write untrue/unfair things about people, eventually having the threads show up in google.

Therefore, I am instituting the following new rules, in addition to the rules we already have here:

1) All accusations must come from the affected party. That means you can't bring accusations on behalf of "your friend" or something you heard through the grapevine. This applies only to individuals. You may accuse a company of wrongdoing, provided that the company isn't a 1 or 2-man operation. You may also repost accusations if they are already playing out on a large, reputable forum (such as 2+2 or Pocketfives) and the evidence strongly suggests the person is guilty.

ALLOWED: "John Smith borrowed $10,000 from me last January, and now isn't taking my phone calls."

ALLOWED: "John Smith rolled Mike Jones for $10,000. Here is a link to the 2+2 thread about it, and it looks very clear that John really did it."

ALLOWED: "My friend got ripped off by shadypokersite.com. He doesn't want to come forward himself, because he really wants to get paid back, but I'm warning everyone not to play there. Here's what I witnessed..."

NOT ALLOWED: "One of my friends borrowed 10k from John Smith last January, and John isn't paying my buddy back."




2) You must be willing to present evidence to prove that your accusation is legitimate. If you don't want to present it publicly, you must contact me before posting the thread and present the evidence to me privately.

ALLOWED: "Here is an e-mail from John Smith from May where he admits to owing me 10k, but claims he's going through a lot of stuff and can't pay."

NOT ALLOWED: "I have some e-mails proving that John really borrowed that 10k from me and won't pay back, but I am not going to post them right now. But trust me, everything I wrote is true."




3) You may not repost anything from users who are banned or not allowed to have an account on PokerFraudAlert.

ALLOWED: "Ryan Gonzales doesn't have an account on PFA, and as far as I know you haven't pre-banned him, but he browsed this site and wrote some pretty bad stuff about it on 2+2. Here's what he wrote..."

NOT ALLOWED: "I know that Bill McDonald isn't allowed on PFA anymore, but he posted some pretty bad stuff about you on another forum, and I'm wondering what your response is to everything he wrote. Here's a copy of what he posted..."




4) You must have evidence of what you're accusing, or at least a story that is verifiable in some way. I will be the sole judge of this.

ALLOWED: "John Smith borrowed 20k from me in 2011. I don't have direct evidence of this, but he borrowed it for the WSOP, played three $3000 NL events and the Main Event, and didn't cash in any of them. He still hasn't paid me. Respected poker player Jack Barnes witnessed me lending the money, and he can come forward if anyone doubts this."

NOT ALLOWED: "John Smith borrowed 20k from me in 2011 but won't pay back! I won't say who I am, and I have no way to prove it, but trust me, he borrowed 20k."



I am willing to discuss changing any of the above rules. These are just my ideas on how to prevent false and unfair accusations, while not stifling people's ability to out scammers or repost reputable threads where it appears someone is truly guilty. However, until I agree to changing them, the above rules will apply immediately and retroactively.

Again, if you have any question whether starting a new accusatory thread is okay, please PM me.

Finally, please post all accusatory threads in the Scams, Scandals, and Shadiness forum. That's where they belong. If you're posting it here, it's more likely you're just looking for attention rather than trying to really warn anyone about a scammer.

I am going to lock the recent threads from 4BET, as they are no longer allowed per the above rules.

Do not attempt to restart a locked thread or I will remove your posting access.

[Dan Druff]

Also, I am not so worried about people reposting very public accusations from well-known figures in poker, as those are likely to be repeated on the much-higher-traffic forums like 2+2.

For example, The Grinder recently tweeted about some guy ripping him off in a last longer bet.

Grinder did not provide evidence, but it was probably true.

In any case, I'm fine with that sort of thing being reposted here, as there is guaranteed to be a thread about it on 2+2, anyway. At that point, it's more "poker celebrity gossip" than anything else.

These rules more apply to lesser-known and unknown poker players, where people could be maliciously using these forums to spread lies or unsubstantiated accusations about others.

[Dan Druff]

Also, while these are not new rules, I am going to start enforcing some old ones.

If you are repeatedly hijacking or trolling threads, I am going to post restrict you or ban you.

For example, if someone starts a thread about movies, and your response is, "Wow, not a surprise at all that you like these faggy movies, since you've always been a huge idiotic in every one of your posts." That's not acceptable. People are starting a lot of interesting topics of discussion here, and I want those threads to stay interesting and troll-free. You can post in those threads, but don't troll or fight in them.


Also, physical threats of any kind are not allowed here. Again, I will suspend or ban you if you make them.

[anonamoose]

Is it alright if you announce a time frame for the person to come forward and pay you before you release the name and evidence?

How about, as long as you release the name you have to release the evidence. If you don't want to release the name just yet, you can have up to a week of pushing them to pay using the thread as a threat and then you have to either delete it or release the name and evidence.

[Rollo Tomasi]

[Rollo Tomasi]

Also, while these are not new rules, I am going to start enforcing some old ones.

If you are repeatedly hijacking or trolling threads, I am going to post restrict you or ban you.

For example, if someone starts a thread about movies, and your response is, "Wow, not a surprise at all that you like these faggy movies, since you've always been a huge faggot in every one of your posts." That's not acceptable. People are starting a lot of interesting topics of discussion here, and I want those threads to stay interesting and troll-free. You can post in those threads, but don't troll or fight in them.


Also, physical threats of any kind are not allowed here. Again, I will suspend or ban you if you make them.

[limitles]

Also, while these are not new rules, I am going to start enforcing some old ones.

If you are repeatedly hijacking or trolling threads, I am going to post restrict you or ban you.

For example, if someone starts a thread about movies, and your response is, "Wow, not a surprise at all that you like these faggy movies, since you've always been a huge faggot in every one of your posts." That's not acceptable. People are starting a lot of interesting topics of discussion here, and I want those threads to stay interesting and troll-free. You can post in those threads, but don't troll or fight in them.


Also, physical threats of any kind are not allowed here. Again, I will suspend or ban you if you make them.

In your hypothetical movie thread, lets say someone posted they were about to watch a particular movie for the seventh time in one week to which a well respected poster questioned that statement with two words such as "speaks volumes". Would you consider that trolling?

[NaturalBornHustler]

Also, while these are not new rules, I am going to start enforcing some old ones.

If you are repeatedly hijacking or trolling threads, I am going to post restrict you or ban you.

.

The few "trusted individuals" need to have the ability to enforce this when you decide to roll out for a couple weeks at a time to your various secret locations.

If you do that then all will be well.

When limitles gets drunk, or searles decides to fag up a thread per usual the hammer needs to be dropped.....immediately. Not days later when the damage is done.

[Pooh]

Also, while these are not new rules, I am going to start enforcing some old ones.

If you are repeatedly hijacking or trolling threads, I am going to post restrict you or ban you.

.

The few "trusted individuals" need to have the ability to enforce this when you decide to roll out for a couple weeks at a time to your various secret locations.

If you do that then all will be well.

When limitles gets drunk, or searles decides to fag up a thread per usual the hammer needs to be dropped.....immediately. Not days later when the damage is done.

Let it go. If the owner doesn't care enough about this then why should you....or anyone else?

[shortbuspoker]

Please think about my suggestions from the other thread also. That being a post per day restriction on new members for a certain time period and not granting the ability to posts pix until a certain post count had been reached without incident. It won't help with the fighting between current members, but it will help reign in the of creation dupes to cock bomb the site.

[JimmyG_415]

After everything ran fairly smoothly for the first four months

something tells me you can pin point this to the day anal hersiser signed up. He made DD a ghost town, people are already sick of him, why let that POS even start here???? You want the fag 5 to get back together?
How is he different than MWH?

NOT ALLOWED: "One of my friends borrowed 10k from John Smith last January, and John isn't paying my buddy back."

So 4-bets "I heard Brandon ripped off some dude" thread has been permanently deleted?

and anyone who thinks that is a successful thread do the # of replies, seriously back away from the computer, get a life.

[Anal_Hershiser]

Still got some sand in your vagina?

[anonamoose]

Still got some sand in your vagina?

Also, while these are not new rules, I am going to start enforcing some old ones.

If you are repeatedly hijacking or trolling threads, I am going to post restrict you or ban you.

:banned

[Rollo Tomasi]

something tells me you can pin point this to the day anal hersiser signed up. He made DD a ghost town, people are already sick of him, why let that POS even start here???? You want the fag 5 to get back together?
How is he different than MWH?

NOT ALLOWED: "One of my friends borrowed 10k from John Smith last January, and John isn't paying my buddy back."

So 4-bets "I heard Brandon ripped off some dude" thread has been permanently deleted?

and anyone who thinks that is a successful thread do the # of replies, seriously back away from the computer, get a life.

Still got some sand in your vagina?

Still got some sand in your vagina?

Also, while these are not new rules, I am going to start enforcing some old ones.

If you are repeatedly hijacking or trolling threads, I am going to post restrict you or ban you.

:banned

common guys Azzclown is a legend and very funny, if jsearles, limitless and 4bet were not running hog wild Azzclown wouldn't be as high profile

[limitles]

There is no doubt Assclown's MO is going to be seriously affected by the enforcement of these rules

[Anal_Hershiser]

There is no doubt Assclown's MO is going to be seriously affected by the enforcement of these rules

[ftpjesus]

There is no doubt Assclown's MO is going to be seriously affected by the enforcement of these rules

I think Anal just summed it up with that one photo. Reality is Druff had to put his foot down eventually. I pointed out that this was rapidly turning into Donkdown 2.1 with all the cock postings in fact I was just waiting for the My Little Pony shit to start too then it wouldve been the DD forums all over again which I dont think anybody wants to see happen. Funny pics are a nice laugh but the cockbombing is just childish and stupid and shows your lack of mental maturity. You want to cockbomb feel free to cockspam DD all you want its allowed over there neverending because Micon and others failed to reign it in hence as a lawyer would see it. Its common law practice to allow such postings. However here as a new forum Druff has tried damn hard to keep things on the level as best he can and folks trying to derail it for their own childish amusement or worse some sick twisted vendetta or worse a false flag cock bombing to get yourself a power grab (as was accused by a crossposting) isnt in anybodys interests especially this forum. You dont see cock bombing going on over at 2+2 (instaban probably IP banned even) or P5s or other sites because people dont want it. And Id dare say in the end 95pct plus here dont want to see it either.

You want to post porn or watch porn go somewherelse this isnt Pokercockalert or Pokerponyalert its Pokerfraudalert which has hopes of being what DD should have been. The radio has been great (who would have thought that a year ago we'd have Druff and Drexel hosting an entirely new show together no less with all the drama and accusations and assumptions by the public as to what did or didnt go on behind the scenes) and its been great. The discussions are good even if things do get a little slow at times w/o somebody needlessly being childish.

On a sidenote if you think about it Druff has a damn good reason for demanding evidence and not just accusations even 3rd party for one very simple reason and he knows it all too well.. The fact is if Druff didnt put the hammer down and people posted allegations right and left without proof and he allowed it he could be easily sued for libel/slander as an involved party potentially for allowing it to be posted online on his site without proof and he doesnt want the legal headaches let alone the potential to be sued because some idiot comes on here and accuses somebody of stealing, rolling, etc.. People are litigious as hell in this country and the fact is usually in such cases the defendant is assumed GUILTY until proven innocent having to prove that the accusations are true or likely true (as civil actions require a proponderence of evidence). Which is why he needs proof to protect himself from being sued by somebody whos been maliciously maligned because lets face it its a lot easier to sue Dan Druff poker pro and poker site owner and if you win collect the judgement vs some nameless faceless poster who could be anybody or nobody for all we know. People create and lie all the time about their Identities online on forums and as such Druff would have little recourse likely unless he knew the poster well and personally to ever be able to sue them for the original false allegations.

[limitles]

I think Anal just summed it up with that one photo. Reality is Druff had to put his foot down eventually. I pointed out that this was rapidly turning into Donkdown 2.1 with all the cock postings in fact I was just waiting for the My Little Pony shit to start too then it wouldve been the DD forums all over again which I dont think anybody wants to see happen. Funny pics are a nice laugh but the cockbombing is just childish and stupid and shows your lack of mental maturity. You want to cockbomb feel free to cockspam DD all you want its allowed over there neverending because Micon and others failed to reign it in hence as a lawyer would see it. Its common law practice to allow such postings. However here as a new forum Druff has tried damn hard to keep things on the level as best he can and folks trying to derail it for their own childish amusement or worse some sick twisted vendetta or worse a false flag cock bombing to get yourself a power grab (as was accused by a crossposting) isnt in anybodys interests especially this forum. You dont see cock bombing going on over at 2+2 (instaban probably IP banned even) or P5s or other sites because people dont want it. And Id dare say in the end 95pct plus here dont want to see it either.

You want to post porn or watch porn go somewherelse this isnt Pokercockalert or Pokerponyalert its Pokerfraudalert which has hopes of being what DD should have been. The radio has been great (who would have thought that a year ago we'd have Druff and Drexel hosting an entirely new show together no less with all the drama and accusations and assumptions by the public as to what did or didnt go on behind the scenes) and its been great. The discussions are good even if things do get a little slow at times w/o somebody needlessly being childish.

On a sidenote if you think about it Druff has a damn good reason for demanding evidence and not just accusations even 3rd party for one very simple reason and he knows it all too well.. The fact is if Druff didnt put the hammer down and people posted allegations right and left without proof and he allowed it he could be easily sued for libel/slander as an involved party potentially for allowing it to be posted online on his site without proof and he doesnt want the legal headaches let alone the potential to be sued because some idiot comes on here and accuses somebody of stealing, rolling, etc.. People are litigious as hell in this country and the fact is usually in such cases the defendant is assumed GUILTY until proven innocent having to prove that the accusations are true or likely true (as civil actions require a proponderence of evidence). Which is why he needs proof to protect himself from being sued by somebody whos been maliciously maligned because lets face it its a lot easier to sue Dan Druff poker pro and poker site owner and if you win collect the judgement vs some nameless faceless poster who could be anybody or nobody for all we know. People create and lie all the time about their Identities online on forums and as such Druff would have little recourse likely unless he knew the poster well and personally to ever be able to sue them for the original false allegations.

Not reading the above verbal diarrhea but the flip side of these adjustments is this site becomes the new Coffee Talk.........

[zealanddonk]

I know you probably dont want to keep a public list but:

"3) You may not repost anything from users who are banned or not allowed to have an account on PokerFraudAlert.".

Obviously theres at least 4 people who are banned or not allowed to have accounts, and 1 of those is really obvious.

I assume but dont know that Micon would be allowed an account here (Given you appear to be happy to debate him on radio) but it isnt clear if he counts as one of the banned/not allowed given the falling out, contract disputes and wild claims he's been making lately.

[JUSTIFIEDhomicide]

I think Anal just summed it up with that one photo. Reality is Druff had to put his foot down eventually. I pointed out that this was rapidly turning into Donkdown 2.1 with all the cock postings in fact I was just waiting for the My Little Pony shit to start too then it wouldve been the DD forums all over again which I dont think anybody wants to see happen. Funny pics are a nice laugh but the cockbombing is just childish and stupid and shows your lack of mental maturity. You want to cockbomb feel free to cockspam DD all you want its allowed over there neverending because Micon and others failed to reign it in hence as a lawyer would see it. Its common law practice to allow such postings. However here as a new forum Druff has tried damn hard to keep things on the level as best he can and folks trying to derail it for their own childish amusement or worse some sick twisted vendetta or worse a false flag cock bombing to get yourself a power grab (as was accused by a crossposting) isnt in anybodys interests especially this forum. You dont see cock bombing going on over at 2+2 (instaban probably IP banned even) or P5s or other sites because people dont want it. And Id dare say in the end 95pct plus here dont want to see it either.

You want to post porn or watch porn go somewherelse this isnt Pokercockalert or Pokerponyalert its Pokerfraudalert which has hopes of being what DD should have been. The radio has been great (who would have thought that a year ago we'd have Druff and Drexel hosting an entirely new show together no less with all the drama and accusations and assumptions by the public as to what did or didnt go on behind the scenes) and its been great. The discussions are good even if things do get a little slow at times w/o somebody needlessly being childish.

On a sidenote if you think about it Druff has a damn good reason for demanding evidence and not just accusations even 3rd party for one very simple reason and he knows it all too well.. The fact is if Druff didnt put the hammer down and people posted allegations right and left without proof and he allowed it he could be easily sued for libel/slander as an involved party potentially for allowing it to be posted online on his site without proof and he doesnt want the legal headaches let alone the potential to be sued because some idiot comes on here and accuses somebody of stealing, rolling, etc.. People are litigious as hell in this country and the fact is usually in such cases the defendant is assumed GUILTY until proven innocent having to prove that the accusations are true or likely true (as civil actions require a proponderence of evidence). Which is why he needs proof to protect himself from being sued by somebody whos been maliciously maligned because lets face it its a lot easier to sue Dan Druff poker pro and poker site owner and if you win collect the judgement vs some nameless faceless poster who could be anybody or nobody for all we know. People create and lie all the time about their Identities online on forums and as such Druff would have little recourse likely unless he knew the poster well and personally to ever be able to sue them for the original false allegations.

Try using a period here and there. They pay off big time