*** WARNING *** Common blood pressure medications rumored to lead to more severe illness from coronavirus

[Dan Druff]

This has not been made public yet. However, this is not a hoax, and is legitimately being studied by experts as you read this.

A link was established awhile ago that COVID-19 (the current coronavirus) seems to be especially tough on those with high blood pressure. At first this was dismissed as the simple fact that the virus is tough on anyone with existing medical conditions and older people -- ones more likely to have high blood pressure than the general population.

However, after enough cases were studied, it was found that high blood pressure really was an outlier. Coronavirus really was killing and hospitalizing a disproportionate number of people with high blood pressure, including many who didn't have any serious illness. This has been known for several weeks, however, and is nothing new, albeit not often discussed in the media.

However, the new development involves the "why" of this situation.

There is now a theory that certain common high blood pressure medications are the actual cause of severe illness and death from COVID-19, and not the high blood pressure itself!

This includes any other medication classified as ARBs (angiotensin receptor blockers) or ACE Inhibitors. Other blood pressure medication is still fine to take.

This has not been proven, but is actively being studied as the reason. Many respected members of the medical community have signed off on this being possible, and they are warning friends and family to stop taking ARBs and ACE Inhibitors for the time being.

ACE Inhibitors include:
Accupril (quinapril)
Aceon (perindopril)
Altace (ramipril)
Capoten (captopril)
Lotensin (benazepril)
Mavik (trandolapril)
Monopril (fosinopril)
Prinivil, Zestril (lisinopril)

ARBs include:
azilsartan (Edarbi)
candesartan (Atacand)
eprosartan (Teveten)
irbesartan (Avapro)
telmisartan (Micardis)
valsartan (Diovan)
losartan (Cozaar)
olmesartan (Benicar)


If you have dangerously high blood pressure, you should NOT stop taking these meds. However, if yours is only moderately high -- where it is not likely to kill you in the short term to get off the meds -- then you should stop taking it until more information is known.

For reasons unknown, this information has NOT been made available to the general public yet, perhaps because it hasn't been studied enough. This is a very recent development. In fact, it's so poorly publicized that there's a good chance your doctor or pharmacist is not aware of it yet.

In the next post I will post some copypasta of a medical publication dated 3/11/20 (yesterday) regarding the matter, which currently hides behind a login wall.

[Dan Druff]

Here's the article. Bolding is mine.


Scientists Seek Answers to Hypertension–COVID-19 Link


BOSTON — In the world of Ralph Baric, PhD, not much is a coincidence.

So he perked up when he saw that SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19 illness, enters the lungs through ACE2 receptors, and that people with hypertension have worse outcomes than those with any other underlying condition.

"I've thought it needed to be explored in more detail for quite a while," said Baric, a professor of epidemiology, microbiology, and immunology at the UNC Gillings School of Global Public Health in Chapel Hill, North Carolina, who has been studying coronavirus outbreaks for decades.

Baric isn't alone. As the National Institutes of Health and private companies scramble to test existing and novel treatments for COVID-19, researchers and doctors are trying to determine whether the spike in serious COVID-19 illness in those with baseline hypertension is a coincidence of age and general ill health, or if it speaks to the role ACE2 receptors play in both hypertension and COVID-19 infection. And if there is an association, they want to know whether ACE inhibitors help or hurt people at highest risk for severe COVID-19 disease.

"It's really important to say that these are all theoretical musings" right now, said Chris Longenecker, MD, from Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine in Cleveland, who watched Baric's presentation at the virtual Conference on Retroviruses and Opportunistic Infections (CROI) 2020, which is now online.

"There is no evidence that I'm aware of that they have clinical benefits at this time," Longenecker told Medscape Medical News.

During the same session, Zunyou Wu, MD, PhD, chief epidemiologist at the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention, presented data showing that more than 40% of people with severe infection had baseline hypertension. Among those with severe illness, the next most common comorbidity was diabetes, at about half that rate. Similar data have been described elsewhere, as reported by Medscape Medical News.

It turns out that SARS-CoV-2 was nearly tailor made for the human body. Although it seems to have emerged from bats or species that bats feed on, current thinking is that there are a number of these "SARS-like" viruses already in bat communities that use ACE2 receptors to invade cells. The receptors exist in multiple species, and in humans they dot the hearts and lungs.

In addition, they play a role in the development of hypertension and diabetes, and are present in greater numbers in people with cardiovascular disease.

Usually, even if a virus exists in bats, it takes several rounds of mutations before it moves from the original host species to another species and then to humans. And it can also take some time for a virus to go from a relatively benign infection to something that becomes epidemic.

But Baric and other researchers who have been sequencing existing bat coronaviruses now believe that bat populations are "seeded with preprogrammed viruses that have been designed to use multiple bat ACE2 receptors. By random chance, some of those can actually directly use humans or a secondary reservoir host," he said.

In other words, the viruses can jump the line and go directly from a bat-only virus to a human virus. "And in some cases, these viruses may be capable of programming directly to the epidemic range," Baric explained.

The fact that SARS-CoV-2 targets ACE2 receptors could be significant, Baric said. For instance, ACE2 is on a sex-linked chromosome, meaning that women express the receptor at higher levels than men. But according to Wu's data, men have worse COVID-19 outcomes than women.

And then there's the issue of ACE inhibitors. Reinin–angiotensin–aldosterone system inhibitors, which include ACE inhibitors, cause an increase in the expression of ACE2 receptors, according to a recent comment in Nature Reviews Cardiology.

"The safety and potential effects of antihypertension therapy with ACE inhibitors or angiotensin-receptor blockers in patients with COVID-19 should be carefully considered," write the Chinese researchers. "Whether patients with COVID-19 and hypertension who are taking an ACE inhibitor or angiotensin-receptor blocker should switch to another antihypertensive drug remains controversial, and further evidence is required."

This increased expression of ACE2 receptors was discussed in a recent BMJ letter, in which Swiss researchers point out that "we need rapid epidemiological and preclinical studies to clarify this relationship."

If there is an association between ACE inhibitors and the virus, "we might be able to reduce the risk of fatal COVID-19 courses in many patients by temporarily replacing these drugs," they write.

However, ACE2 has been shown to play a protective role in influenza-induced acute respiratory distress syndrome and, with age, ACE2 expression drops, said Baric, who agrees that more research is needed.

"There is probably some direct relationship to the level of ACE2 expression and disease severity," he said. "And it probably plays some role in the age-related" severity trends we've seen in COVID-19.

Small-molecule drugs designed to bind to ACE2 and prevent infection by SARS-CoV-2 were assessed in a 2013 study. "It's a very good idea to go back and re-explore the use of these drugs, both in vitro and in improved animal models," Baric said.

For the CROI audience, the issue of hypertension and COVID-19 raised more questions than answers.

After the session, Keri Althoff, PhD, from the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health in Baltimore, asked, by tweet, the number of smokers in the population Wu reported on, and the number of patients taking antihypertensive medication, but has not yet heard back from Wu, she told Medscape Medical News.

Embedded Tweet

https://twitter.com/twt/status/1237421074997968896

Longenecker said he is tempted to take a step back from the dynamics of ACE2 receptors and ACE inhibitors, and wonders whether the relation between hypertension and worse COVID-19 outcomes might simply be over-represented in older people.

"Older people have higher rates of hypertension, higher rates of cardiovascular disease," he told Medscape Medical News. "That may be an explanation. It may have nothing to do with the angiotensin receptor. Either way, these are things worth exploring."

So far, SARS-CoV-2 has spread farther and faster than SARS, and it has different clinical characteristics. For instance, Wu showed that, unlike the original SARS outbreak in the early 2000s, when viral shedding began days after symptoms emerged, viral shedding of SARS-CoV-2 can start 24 to 48 hours before symptoms appear.

"For SARS patients, wearing a mask is good enough to stop transmission," Wu explained. "For COVID-19, both patients and healthy people need to wear masks to stop transmission."

The virus is also less deadly than SARS, said John Brooks, MD, from the National Center for HIV/AIDS, Viral Hepatitis, STD, and TB Prevention at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), during his presentation.

Still, given current data and depending on how well the United States does in testing and treating people with the virus, the likely death rate from COVID-19 will be between 0.5% and 3.5%, according to the CDC.

"COVID-19 could be 5 to 35 times more deadly than seasonal influenza," Brooks said. On Wednesday, Anthony Fauci, MD, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, told a Congressional hearing that he expects COVID-19 to be 10 times as deadly as the flu.

[Dan Druff]

I should state that I was contacted about this because I take Losartan, along with two other medications for my high blood pressue. I was advised to quit the Losartan for the time being, and continue with the other two meds.

Prior to being medicated, my BP was around 150/90, which is unhealthy long term, but not dangerous short term.

It should also be understood that, contrary to popular belief, chronic high blood pressure is mostly hereditary, and usually cannot be cured simply by eating better or having less stress. (These factors do raise existing high blood pressure further, but are not the root cause.)

[Gordman]

Literally reading this as I just swallowed my Losartan


Thanks for posting this info

[MumblesBadly]

Does it make sense to stop taking these medicines before any symptoms show up? Because the problem might be that their multiplying effect on the virus’ lethality is when patients continue to take them after showing symptoms.

[JACKDANIELS]

todge with your amazing immune system you dont need to worry about coronavirus

[BCR]

I ran this by a few people who are in your range that I know are on those. Told them to wait, make sure what their exact readings were when they were started on it if it required a call to their doctor , and don’t do shit yet.

Clearly you would run this by people who are qualified to answer the question to your satisfaction. Clearly those people would say consult with your doctor etc etc. This actually makes a lot of sense considering what I knew the virus to attach to and attack. Keep us informed.

[BCR]

Literally reading this as I just swallowed my Losartan


Thanks for posting this info

I have a buddy who just texted me that’s on this same one. I said just keep an eye on it. He was like I’m on half a pill for precautionary reasons. Said he’s low borderline. He’s done with it atm. Told him to monitor the shit because his family will want to kill me if he has heart attack. He wasn’t concerned and just said he forgets to take it 3 days a week anyway.

[BeerAndPoker]

Be sure any of you who stop taking a blood pressure pill talk to a doctor first and you lower your sodium intakes.

That means not eating a large pepperoni pizza in one sitting Druff, if you're still doing that sort of thing.

[splitthis]

Seriously the study should be how many normal weight, regular exercising, healthy eating people with high blood pressure and on these meds have these effects. The answer would be 0.0.

It’s funny how an obese, sedentary, shit eating lifestyle isn’t the cause lolz.

[BCR]

Seriously the study should be how many normal weight, regular exercising, healthy eating people with high blood pressure and on these meds have these effects. The answer would be 0.0.

It’s funny how an obese, sedentary, shit eating lifestyle isn’t the cause lolz.

I’ve been thinking about this dude for nearly a month.

https://www.wkyc.com/mobile/article/...2-962c514f7a46


My attention was drawn to him because I grew up with a dude who has been going through hell. He has been going through heart issues since his thirties. Just bad luck as he was never heavy, clean liver, hell of an athlete growing up who I played everything with, just had bad genetic luck. He was near death a few months ago, and still is tbh, but needed the rare double heart and lung transplant. I was out with another friend and he brought up his Facebook to check on his wife’s frequent updates on his health, and she expressed her condolences to the family of that doctor that was part of my friends medical team through his ordeal.

We already had cases in Washington state and California at the time. I wondered aloud to my friend if it was possible he was infected with the Wuhan. It’s just so rare for a 60 year old who isn’t in bad health, who has had his vaccinations and clearly hygiene is tantamount give his profession, and clearly he has access to elite health care to die of the garden variety flu. I have no idea about his medical history,

We were both like fuck, likey just the flu. The flu is weird and it kills random people. Probably still was just the flu. But I thought about him again when you said the first 3 cases were in cuyahoga.

Then today they are interviewing local guy who seems to be beating it. Only confirmed local guy here who is in the hospital. Black guy, 55, in really good shape, and two days ago he was 100% convinced he was going to die. Seems to be taking a much better turn since then. Said he hasn’t been anywhere in last few weeks. Not even out of state. He has had lifelong congenital heart issue, and said the only place he’d really been besides the gym once was for his visit to the Cleveland Clinic.

Started thinking about this doctor again and this thread. Didn’t say what his issue was or whatever, but high blood pressure in the 50 demographic black population is pretty much 75%.

Obviously as you know better than me, Cleveland Clinic is generally ranked like a top 3 cardiology hospital. Usually 1 is most rankings. As I’m sure you’ve experienced, when you visit it like most people have done at one time in our part of the country, it’s basically a United Nations conference.

Saudis, high level Chinese, basically the wealthiest people from around the world come there when they have a serious heart issue. It’s like Mayo and a handful of other places where they have translation kiosks for their patients from around the world.

Clearly there wouldn’t be some pandemic in the hospital facility itself. Nowhere in the world is going to concentrate on sterilization like a world class cardiology unit. Makes me wonder if this doctor though came into contact with a very early case. Before anyone knew. People in the waiting room. Secretaries. Someone could have picked it up and it could be spreading locally in some manner.

I just found his death weird and that every initial case confirmed was in that area, and this guy locally had been nowhere besides there. We aren’t exactly a tourism destination, but Cleveland clinic certainly is a place people come from every corner of the globe.

Still more likely just the flu with that doctor, and it’s likely there are so many cases that this local dude could have picked it up anywhere, but I thought about this thread because of likelihood he’s probably on these medications and I wondered if it could have exacerbated his condition and I keep thinking about that doctor and wonder if we had some patient up there in your neighborhood who had that shit early given they come from everywhere and that’s the most essential travel. I have little doubt some upper level Chinese official could fly there for treatment regardless of where he was from in mid-January. That patient would likely be immune compromised also.

Just guessing obviously, but makes me curious.

[lol wow]

Honestly todge there's a chance ur elderly posters are gonna die and then it's just me and you champ

[lol wow]

RIP daly and sal though

[Daly]

RIP daly and sal though

I’ll leave you my Lionel train collection and my David Crocket hat.

[BCR]

French Health Minster says to take acetaminophen rather than ibuprofen for fevers and body aches. Said ibuprofen is like prednisone and cortisone as far as they lower your natural immune function and make it harder to fight off virus.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...irus-infection

[SPIT this]

French Health Minster says to take acetaminophen rather than ibuprofen for fevers and body aches. Said ibuprofen is like prednisone and cortisone as far as they lower your natural immune function and make it harder to fight off virus.

Interesting. Asprin okay?

[Dan Druff]

Yeah I'd like an answer on the aspirin. Not sure I can stop taking it, though.

As I've mentioned before, I get chronic tension headaches. I inherited them, but got an even worse version. I average about 250 per year. They won't go away unless I take meds for them. If I go to sleep with one, it's there waiting for me when I wake up.

Aspirin does away with about 98% of them. The other 3% of the time I take Vicodin, which happens on average once every few months.

They showed up in my mid-20s, which is common. What's really weird was that they completely vanished during my severe anxiety and depression in 2018, and then came back when that mostly went away.

Anyway, I think I'd just keep taking the chance and taking the aspirin. Tylenol doesn't work for me.

[lol wow]

So todge is a morphine addict

[Dive_Bar_Dave]

Thanks for the heads up Todd. I take Losartan too.

[Forum Wars]

Yeah I'd like an answer on the aspirin. Not sure I can stop taking it, though.

As I've mentioned before, I get chronic tension headaches. I inherited them, but got an even worse version. I average about 250 per year. They won't go away unless I take meds for them. If I go to sleep with one, it's there waiting for me when I wake up.

Aspirin does away with about 98% of them. The other 3% of the time I take Vicodin, which happens on average once every few months.

They showed up in my mid-20s, which is common. What's really weird was that they completely vanished during my severe anxiety and depression in 2018, and then came back when that mostly went away.

Anyway, I think I'd just keep taking the chance and taking the aspirin. Tylenol doesn't work for me.

To an outside man looking in, it would seem that your tension headaches BECAME (or suddenly manifested as) anxiety and depression for that "stronger" period and then when you became normal again (I'm using normal loosely), they went back to manifesting as tension headaches.

Thanks for the above piece on the possiblity that these ACE inhibitors MAY at least in part be what is huring the seniors with so much (and simultaneously sparing 99.9% of the children from) serious illness from this. "They" need to get going clinical testing NOW. This would honestly make me feel great if true. I don't take them and am fortunate enough that most family members don't either. The one that does, well, I hope it's the kind of thing you can stop using while you go thru the Corona Fever (by then hopefully a flu-like pain).