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Thread: So coronavirus is definitely going to kill a few of us.

  1. #15061
    the pendulum is swinging in an unsavory direction.

    people are internalizing that none of the controls suggested (masks, distancing) are binary, they are all just carbon rods being slammed into a runaway reactor and we were too slow and had too few.

    so now, because we lack the intellectual vocabulary to express things in non-binary terms, they are being rejected as pseudoscience.

    every infected person is a lottery ticket that generates more lottery tickets. the prize is royal flush strains racking up millions of dead/disabled people. the irony is that neither we nor the virus want that but its exactly what we will both get, eventually.

    the math is the math, its inescapable.

    hashtags of the future: quarantine, lockdown, AI farming, AI supply chains, remote enforcement, unrest, martial law, mass graves

     
    Comments
      
      splitthis: The control factor is swinging, people are finally saying fuck off
      
      Sanlmar: we lack the intellectual vocabulary to express things in non-binary terms
      
      The Boz: More of the same from those looking for excuses for more handouts. And reasons not to work.
      
      gimmick:
      
      PROUDBOY MAGA 2024: ^^ Silent offset champion ^^
      
      FRANKRIZZO:
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  2. #15062
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    NY governor just hit the panic button and banned "elective surgeries" when hospitals are higher than 90% capacity.

    This is dumb, and will kill people. Why?

    1) Elective surgeries aren't what most people think. While some elective surgery can easily be delayed, such as cosmetic surgery, other elective surgeries are correcting potentially life-threatening issues, which aren't urgent in the "we must do it today and not tomorrow" way, but in the "if we delay this, the chance of this killing you goes up every day" way.

    2) Hospital "capacity" has always been fuzzy math, as it's a function of beds, employees, and other factors. You picture 90% capacity as 90% of every bed in the hospital being full of patients with urgent need, but that's not true. Often entire sections are closed due to staffing issues, and other times recovering patients are hogging up beds, but could otherwise be safely released if the space were needed.

    3) NY fired a bunch of unvaccinated staff, and that has contributed big time to staff shortages. Maybe time to hire them back, if staffing is such an issue?


    In general, the government shouldn't be making policy about who hospitals can and can't see. If they feel we're getting close to needing such measures, why isn't any kind of real emergency action (staffing up, auxiliary hospitals, etc) being taken?
    Regarding banning elective surgery, during the Covid panic last year my dentist banned appointments unless there was emergencies. I had an infected tooth at the time, decided to tough it out. Big mistake. Earlier this year I had to have my tooth removed, and I just got an implant. Great thing is the implant is considered elective by my insurance, so I am stuck over $2,500 for the procedure. So the extraction is covered at $300 and the fake tooth so I can eat is not. Makes sense.

  3. #15063
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    Quote Originally Posted by tgull View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    NY governor just hit the panic button and banned "elective surgeries" when hospitals are higher than 90% capacity.

    This is dumb, and will kill people. Why?

    1) Elective surgeries aren't what most people think. While some elective surgery can easily be delayed, such as cosmetic surgery, other elective surgeries are correcting potentially life-threatening issues, which aren't urgent in the "we must do it today and not tomorrow" way, but in the "if we delay this, the chance of this killing you goes up every day" way.

    2) Hospital "capacity" has always been fuzzy math, as it's a function of beds, employees, and other factors. You picture 90% capacity as 90% of every bed in the hospital being full of patients with urgent need, but that's not true. Often entire sections are closed due to staffing issues, and other times recovering patients are hogging up beds, but could otherwise be safely released if the space were needed.

    3) NY fired a bunch of unvaccinated staff, and that has contributed big time to staff shortages. Maybe time to hire them back, if staffing is such an issue?


    In general, the government shouldn't be making policy about who hospitals can and can't see. If they feel we're getting close to needing such measures, why isn't any kind of real emergency action (staffing up, auxiliary hospitals, etc) being taken?
    Regarding banning elective surgery, during the Covid panic last year my dentist banned appointments unless there was emergencies. I had an infected tooth at the time, decided to tough it out. Big mistake. Earlier this year I had to have my tooth removed, and I just got an implant. Great thing is the implant is considered elective by my insurance, so I am stuck over $2,500 for the procedure. So the extraction is covered at $300 and the fake tooth so I can eat is not. Makes sense.
    Yeah the ban on non-emergency dental procedures fucked me, too. That root canal I got in November 2020 was a result of not taking care of a cavity I had intended to have filled in March.

    Cost me thousands, and more importantly was very unpleasant.

    Sad!

  4. #15064
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dwai View Post
    druff I love you and you're a good guy but I don't want your fox news outrage porn.

    you have bought into this pandemic hook line and sinker from day one. even after it became clear it wasn't even deadly. you skew numbers to make it seem like people from 35 to 45 is a huge difference. IT'S NOT.

    you're a relatively healthy guy in your 50s(I know I'm early) and you're not fat, you'll be fine, you've been playing both sides of the fence on this since 2021, you have 2 vaccines and a booster, you don't get to call anything out. you are a covid casualty
    COVID is the third highest cause of death for people 45-54, and not a distant third. In the past year, it was just a little bit behind heart disease.

    Compare that to kids and people under 30, where COVID deaths are incredibly rare, and thus there should be no panic.

    I'm using raw numbers here, not quoting the biased political takes, as both sides are wrong about COVID. The right is largely trying to make COVID look like a non-issue and a non-danger, whereas the left is largely trying to incite constant panic as a means to win elections and bring on unrelated social change.

    This is why I got three shots myself (something the left has been urging), yet am totally against vaccine mandates and masks in schools for kids (a position the left hates).

    I also think cloth masks are a bullshit security blanket, and lockdowns just hurt the economy and don't work.

    This isn't talking out of both sides of my mouth. This is following the data and using common sense.

    Saying, "I don't need no vaccine, my immune system works fine!!!" isn't common sense, when almost everyone dying of COVID presently is unvaccinated. That's ignoring the obvious data.

    Saying, "WE MUST VACCINATE AND MASK OUR KIDS IN SCHOOL FOR SAFFFFFFEETTYYY!!!" also isn't common sense, as we have tens of millions of kids in elementary schools, none of whom are vaccinated, and not a single student-caused school outbreak in 3 months.

    I refuse to buy into either side's idiocy, and I'm thinking for myself here.

    This is the logic I use to convince other conservatives my age to get vaccinated. They are constantly battered over the head with lies from the left/media, and they think, "Well, I know I'm being lied to, so the vaccine must also be bullshit, just like my conservative friends are telling me."

    I tell them that the left is full of shit with a lot of their COVID dogma, but they happen to be right about the vaccine thing.

    Again, just follow the data and you'll get the truth in a lot of this.
    false

  5. #15065

     
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      DJ_Chaps: Get cancer plz
    PokerFraudAlert...will never censor your claims, even if they're against one of our sponsors. In addition to providing you an open forum report fraud within the poker community, we will also analyze your claims with a clear head an unbiased point of view. And, of course, the accused will always have the floor to defend themselves.-Dan Druff

  6. #15066
    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    the pendulum is swinging in an unsavory direction.

    people are internalizing that none of the controls suggested (masks, distancing) are binary, they are all just carbon rods being slammed into a runaway reactor and we were too slow and had too few.

    so now, because we lack the intellectual vocabulary to express things in non-binary terms, they are being rejected as pseudoscience.

    oh.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/o...ence-infection

     
    Comments
      
      Sanlmar: Your point won’t be misunderstood by Druff, it will be ignored.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  7. #15067
    At least Apple is up $3 while the rest of the market suffers big fear drops.

    You can always count on the supposed “poor” to find the money for the newest Apple gear while complaining they can’t safely work and can’t afford food.

     
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      splitthis: Lol

  8. #15068
    Platinum splitthis's Avatar
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    Gotta love the renewed hysteria attempt just before the holidays. It isn’t gonna work, nobody believes you or cares anymore.

    The only domestic terrorism in the good ole USA right now is that committed by the government and big pharma.

    Fuck off.

     
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      The Boz: Sadly there are lunatics who still follow the garbage Fauci spews. And panic just as the leftist media expects them to when they push all this fearmongering nonsense.
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

    Ronald Reagan

  9. #15069
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwai View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post

    COVID is the third highest cause of death for people 45-54, and not a distant third. In the past year, it was just a little bit behind heart disease.

    Compare that to kids and people under 30, where COVID deaths are incredibly rare, and thus there should be no panic.

    I'm using raw numbers here, not quoting the biased political takes, as both sides are wrong about COVID. The right is largely trying to make COVID look like a non-issue and a non-danger, whereas the left is largely trying to incite constant panic as a means to win elections and bring on unrelated social change.

    This is why I got three shots myself (something the left has been urging), yet am totally against vaccine mandates and masks in schools for kids (a position the left hates).

    I also think cloth masks are a bullshit security blanket, and lockdowns just hurt the economy and don't work.

    This isn't talking out of both sides of my mouth. This is following the data and using common sense.

    Saying, "I don't need no vaccine, my immune system works fine!!!" isn't common sense, when almost everyone dying of COVID presently is unvaccinated. That's ignoring the obvious data.

    Saying, "WE MUST VACCINATE AND MASK OUR KIDS IN SCHOOL FOR SAFFFFFFEETTYYY!!!" also isn't common sense, as we have tens of millions of kids in elementary schools, none of whom are vaccinated, and not a single student-caused school outbreak in 3 months.

    I refuse to buy into either side's idiocy, and I'm thinking for myself here.

    This is the logic I use to convince other conservatives my age to get vaccinated. They are constantly battered over the head with lies from the left/media, and they think, "Well, I know I'm being lied to, so the vaccine must also be bullshit, just like my conservative friends are telling me."

    I tell them that the left is full of shit with a lot of their COVID dogma, but they happen to be right about the vaccine thing.

    Again, just follow the data and you'll get the truth in a lot of this.
    false
    Covid didn’t kill them, their multiple comorbidities did, many of which could have been self fixed before covid stomped on their last finger clinging onto the precipice.
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

    Ronald Reagan

  10. #15070
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    the pendulum is swinging in an unsavory direction.

    people are internalizing that none of the controls suggested (masks, distancing) are binary, they are all just carbon rods being slammed into a runaway reactor and we were too slow and had too few.

    so now, because we lack the intellectual vocabulary to express things in non-binary terms, they are being rejected as pseudoscience.

    oh.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/o...ence-infection
    How is this article wrong? It seems like you are critical of it and its message.

    I've been saying forever that cloth masking has been long amplified/exaggerated by the left in order to win elections, and that it was actually harmful because of the false sense of security it creates.

    Your complaint seems to be that cloth masking shouldn't have been either over-exaggeraetd or completely dismissed, yet even the most optimistic pro-mask data suggests an almost negligible effect, so which side is at fault here?

  11. #15071
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    How is this article wrong? It seems like you are critical of it and its message.

    I've been saying forever that cloth masking has been long amplified/exaggerated by the left in order to win elections, and that it was actually harmful because of the false sense of security it creates.

    Your complaint seems to be that cloth masking shouldn't have been either over-exaggeraetd or completely dismissed, yet even the most optimistic pro-mask data suggests an almost negligible effect, so which side is at fault here?

    Well for one comparing England and Scotland as if it’s some type is controlled experiment is completely stupid. There could literally be a hundred plus other variables responsible for the changes. Do we really need to re teach experimental method?

    That and it’s also an article from an extremist website.

    But yes as the author of that article suggests maybe it’s population control? ……

  12. #15072
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    Quote Originally Posted by BetCheckBet View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post

    How is this article wrong? It seems like you are critical of it and its message.

    I've been saying forever that cloth masking has been long amplified/exaggerated by the left in order to win elections, and that it was actually harmful because of the false sense of security it creates.

    Your complaint seems to be that cloth masking shouldn't have been either over-exaggeraetd or completely dismissed, yet even the most optimistic pro-mask data suggests an almost negligible effect, so which side is at fault here?

    Well for one comparing England and Scotland as if it’s some type is controlled experiment is completely stupid. There could literally be a hundred plus other variables responsible for the changes. Do we really need to re teach experimental method?

    That and it’s also an article from an extremist website.

    But yes as the author of that article suggests maybe it’s population control? ……
    The left loves to constantly compare different countries (which England and Scotland actually aren't), and whine "OMG LOOK HOW MUCH WORSE US IS, IT'S ALL TRUMP'S FAULT!!!!111"

    They also love to exaggerate the US problem, often leaving out of the equation that the US population is 3rd highest in the world, and blows away anything in Europe. Then they don't adjust for population and just list the number of cases and deaths compared to other countries.

    I think the more we get away from masking as a solution, the better off society will be. It's time to enter the "live with COVID" phase, where we attempt to return life to 2019 normalcy, while only concerning ourselves with major dangers and therapies/preventions.

    For example, vaccination has been proven to be a great weapon against severe and deadly COVID. Good. While it's probably not a long-term solution (due to mutations and rapidly waning protection), at least we can see it's effective in preventing the worst outcomes.. Keep pushing that.

    When useful therapies come out (including the COVID pill, which is about to be available), promote those, as well.

    But enough with the mask mandates, the lockdowns, the forced distancing, the obsessive sanitizing, and idiotic anti-scientific policies such as refusals to accept cash at some businesses.

    We need to be honest that some things are absolutely useless for COVID prevention (such as the cashless stuff and the sanitizing), and others are negligible at best (masking and 6-foot distancing).

    We also need to be honest that unvaccinated kids don't transmit much (or at all), and that when kids get it, it's almost always either mild or asymptomatic. That means take the masks off kids, let them play, and let them have a normal childhood.

    Also, let people congregate outside all they want. Transmission is very low outdoors.

    The science and the data says to do these things. The left still won't get on board for a lot of this, because they want to justify last year's panicky actions, justify the bashing of Trump/GOP, and justify the continued social changes spawning from COVID.

    Following the science goes two ways. It doesn't just mean follow it as far as vaccination goes. It means follow it for everything. It's pretty easy to tell by this point what has worked (vaccination) and what has been useless (masking, 6-foot distancing, sanitizing).

     
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  13. #15073
    is anyone has any thoughtful commentary they wish to engage in, who is capable of non-performative interaction and generally doesnt come off like tucker carlson's retarded kid brother, im here for it btw.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  14. #15074
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    is anyone has any thoughtful commentary they wish to engage in, who is capable of non-performative interaction and generally doesnt come off like tucker carlson's retarded kid brother, im here for it btw.
    I see. So you only want "thoughtful commentary" which either completely or mostly agrees with you?

    You really think more masking and 6-foot distancing would have significantly improved our 2020 outcomes? All that shit did was politicize COVID and make people more combative/distrustful when it came to the important stuff (vaccination).

    And here we are.

    But seriously, what "thoughtful commentary" would you find acceptable which doesn't fall under the banner of the sonatine echo chamber?

    I'm sorry that it's a hard pill to swallow that your PARTY OF THE SCIENCE (tm) fucked up the messaging royally, but they fucked up the messaging royally.

    That's how we got this as recently as March 2021:


     
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      splitthis: He is deranged

  15. #15075
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    is anyone has any thoughtful commentary they wish to engage in, who is capable of non-performative interaction and generally doesnt come off like tucker carlson's retarded kid brother, im here for it btw.

    LOCKDOWNS, MASK MANDATES AND VACCINE MANDATES DON'T WORK. THIS IS A SCIENTIFIC FACT. FLORIDA HAS THE LOWEST CORONAVIRUS RATE IN THE NATION.

    Here's the proof: https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...-even-further/ Oh and the numbers are taken from the NY Times coronavirus tracker, so don't even start with attacking the source.

    Now enough of the parroting of the bullshit CNN narrative.

  16. #15076
    anyone at all?
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

  17. #15077
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sonatine View Post
    is anyone has any thoughtful commentary they wish to engage in, who is capable of non-performative interaction and generally doesnt come off like tucker carlson's retarded kid brother, im here for it btw.
    I see. So you only want "thoughtful commentary" which either completely or mostly agrees with you?

    You really think more masking and 6-foot distancing would have significantly improved our 2020 outcomes? All that shit did was politicize COVID and make people more combative/distrustful when it came to the important stuff (vaccination).

    And here we are.

    But seriously, what "thoughtful commentary" would you find acceptable which doesn't fall under the banner of the sonatine echo chamber?

    I'm sorry that it's a hard pill to swallow that your PARTY OF THE SCIENCE (tm) fucked up the messaging royally, but they fucked up the messaging royally.

    That's how we got this as recently as March 2021:

    Don’t disagree that it’s hysteria when it comes to children and Covid. I’ve largely been anti lockdown. It’s just a shame that most anti lockdown supporters are fucking lunatics it lumps me in with such a group.

    That being said the article you quote specifically calls out republicans as well. And interestingly enough for their hesistancy in masks….


    From your article.

    Republicans’ underestimation of Covid risks helps explain their resistance to wearing a mask — even though doing so could save their own life or that of a family member. And Democrats’ overestimation of risks explains why so many have accepted school closures — despite the damage being done to children, in lost learning, lost social connections and, in the case of poorer children, missed meals.

  18. #15078
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BetCheckBet View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post

    I see. So you only want "thoughtful commentary" which either completely or mostly agrees with you?

    You really think more masking and 6-foot distancing would have significantly improved our 2020 outcomes? All that shit did was politicize COVID and make people more combative/distrustful when it came to the important stuff (vaccination).

    And here we are.

    But seriously, what "thoughtful commentary" would you find acceptable which doesn't fall under the banner of the sonatine echo chamber?

    I'm sorry that it's a hard pill to swallow that your PARTY OF THE SCIENCE (tm) fucked up the messaging royally, but they fucked up the messaging royally.

    That's how we got this as recently as March 2021:

    Don’t disagree that it’s hysteria when it comes to children and Covid. I’ve largely been anti lockdown. It’s just a shame that most anti lockdown supporters are fucking lunatics it lumps me in with such a group.

    That being said the article you quote specifically calls out republicans as well. And interestingly enough for their hesistancy in masks….


    From your article.

    Republicans’ underestimation of Covid risks helps explain their resistance to wearing a mask — even though doing so could save their own life or that of a family member. And Democrats’ overestimation of risks explains why so many have accepted school closures — despite the damage being done to children, in lost learning, lost social connections and, in the case of poorer children, missed meals.
    Well, it's from the NY Times, so of course they have to worship the cult of the mask, even when sheepishly admitting that the public is highly misinformed thanks to Democratic/media hysteria.

    I don't disagree with the rest of what you wrote. Yes, a lot of anti-lockdown and anti-mask-mandate people are also nuts who won't accept the reality of COVID. These people often present logical arguments for why a lot of the Dem positions on COVID are stupid, and then they ruin it all by trying to explain why they're 55 and don't need a vaccine.

    My COVID positions are bashed by both sides because I won't go with either knee-jerk narrative. I have people on the right calling me "brainwashed" and "a RINO", and I have people on the left calling me "anti-science" and "parroting Fox News".

    The whole thing is very sad because there's so much misinformation on both sides, and a lot of exploitation of the situation for political purposes. I wish more Republicans would get on board with the vaccine (at least for adults 40+), and then they'd have more justification to call out the Dems for their many nonsensical positions.

  19. #15079
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by BetCheckBet View Post

    Don’t disagree that it’s hysteria when it comes to children and Covid. I’ve largely been anti lockdown. It’s just a shame that most anti lockdown supporters are fucking lunatics it lumps me in with such a group.

    That being said the article you quote specifically calls out republicans as well. And interestingly enough for their hesistancy in masks….


    From your article.

    Republicans’ underestimation of Covid risks helps explain their resistance to wearing a mask — even though doing so could save their own life or that of a family member. And Democrats’ overestimation of risks explains why so many have accepted school closures — despite the damage being done to children, in lost learning, lost social connections and, in the case of poorer children, missed meals.
    Well, it's from the NY Times, so of course they have to worship the cult of the mask, even when sheepishly admitting that the public is highly misinformed thanks to Democratic/media hysteria.

    I don't disagree with the rest of what you wrote. Yes, a lot of anti-lockdown and anti-mask-mandate people are also nuts who won't accept the reality of COVID. These people often present logical arguments for why a lot of the Dem positions on COVID are stupid, and then they ruin it all by trying to explain why they're 55 and don't need a vaccine.

    My COVID positions are bashed by both sides because I won't go with either knee-jerk narrative. I have people on the right calling me "brainwashed" and "a RINO", and I have people on the left calling me "anti-science" and "parroting Fox News".

    The whole thing is very sad because there's so much misinformation on both sides, and a lot of exploitation of the situation for political purposes. I wish more Republicans would get on board with the vaccine (at least for adults 40+), and then they'd have more justification to call out the Dems for their many nonsensical positions.
    If only we had a Republican president when all this began to lead America.

    We would be in such a better place!
    PokerFraudAlert...will never censor your claims, even if they're against one of our sponsors. In addition to providing you an open forum report fraud within the poker community, we will also analyze your claims with a clear head an unbiased point of view. And, of course, the accused will always have the floor to defend themselves.-Dan Druff

  20. #15080
    Quote Originally Posted by Sloppy Joe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post

    Well, it's from the NY Times, so of course they have to worship the cult of the mask, even when sheepishly admitting that the public is highly misinformed thanks to Democratic/media hysteria.

    I don't disagree with the rest of what you wrote. Yes, a lot of anti-lockdown and anti-mask-mandate people are also nuts who won't accept the reality of COVID. These people often present logical arguments for why a lot of the Dem positions on COVID are stupid, and then they ruin it all by trying to explain why they're 55 and don't need a vaccine.

    My COVID positions are bashed by both sides because I won't go with either knee-jerk narrative. I have people on the right calling me "brainwashed" and "a RINO", and I have people on the left calling me "anti-science" and "parroting Fox News".

    The whole thing is very sad because there's so much misinformation on both sides, and a lot of exploitation of the situation for political purposes. I wish more Republicans would get on board with the vaccine (at least for adults 40+), and then they'd have more justification to call out the Dems for their many nonsensical positions.
    If only we had a Republican president when all this began to lead America.

    We would be in such a better place!
    yeah cause Biden has really taken care of the virus, get a grip dope

     
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