So coronavirus is definitely going to kill a few of us.

[BCR]

Go. As you wrote, very little to almost non-existent hospitalization among vaccinated in our age group. Really not much in any age group. That’s all that matters to me. Not worth missing a memory with Ben over.

As I wrote the other day, my friend in Charlotte is the pharmacist in an ER. She and her group are tested every month. She was alarmed to find she was negative for antibodies at 7 months. A few others were also. Most of the group was still positive. That was first month anyone had tested negative. Clearly they are not there one day gone the next, so they’re waning, but it’s not resulting in severe illness. She got booster the next day.

I had hoped we had longer lasting immunity, but once I started knowing and hearing people get it two, and in a few cases, three times who weren’t vaccinated, I knew we were going to be doing this forever.

I wouldn’t skip anything at this point. Maybe come late October/November if it was bad, I might skip indoor shit. This thing is going to be with us forever and if you start halving your free time, you’re going to spend half the year avoiding shit.

To the best of my knowledge they have yet to determine the exact relationship between antibody levels and immunity. FWIW, generally viral pathogens are controlled mainly by the cell mediated adaptive immune system (T cells and NK cells), as opposed to the humoral immune system (antibodies). But as I have explained before, it is MUCH more difficult to detect virus specific memory T cells than antibodies. But it is possible some level of immunity is maintained even when antibody levels become undetectable.

This is why I said before vaccinations that we might end up getting booster shots, but possibly might not need them. Idc, I’ll get one ASAP, but what you’re talking about is like all those T cell studies that were showing that mothers who had been exposed to other corona strains via their children seemed to be getting sick far less because of T cell protection. Peter Macneil was posting the studies and drew them to my attention, so obviously even if you had lessened or absent antibodies, having been exposed to actual Covid itself would, in theory, provide some immunity. As someone who had zero side effects from shot, I wouldn’t roll the dice, but its a comforting thought.

I wrote that quickly and meant it more as a question given your background. You’re taking like some degree of cross immunity via T cells, correct? That’s how I understood it, but this is your arena.


As a follow up, why has it seemed everyone I encountered who got it twice, got sicker the second go around? These are all unvaccinated people. People who caught it early and then again before even having a chance to get vaccinated. Do we simply not understand who might react that way and who may enjoy some immunity?

There is a story circulating about a guy named Bill Phillips I saw the other day. Super fit 56 year old. Broncos personal trainer. He got it once, and thought he didn’t need vaccinated, and second time almost killed him and he’s in a chair and looks like shit.

Most people I’ve met who got it twice, second time was worse. Would seem the opposite.

[Kalam]

To the best of my knowledge they have yet to determine the exact relationship between antibody levels and immunity. FWIW, generally viral pathogens are controlled mainly by the cell mediated adaptive immune system (T cells and NK cells), as opposed to the humoral immune system (antibodies). But as I have explained before, it is MUCH more difficult to detect virus specific memory T cells than antibodies. But it is possible some level of immunity is maintained even when antibody levels become undetectable.

This is why I said before vaccinations that we might end up getting booster shots, but possibly might not need them. Idc, I’ll get one ASAP, but what you’re talking about is like all those T cell studies that were showing that mothers who had been exposed to other corona strains via their children seemed to be getting sick far less because of T cell protection. Peter Macneil was posting the studies and drew them to my attention, so obviously even if you had lessened or absent antibodies, having been exposed to actual Covid itself would, in theory, provide some immunity. As someone who had zero side effects from shot, I wouldn’t roll the dice, but its a comforting thought.

I wrote that quickly and meant it more as a question given your background. You’re taking like some degree of cross immunity via T cells, correct? That’s how I understood it, but this is your arena.

Anyone who has SARS-COV-2 specific antibodies (either due to vaccination or an immune response to getting Covid) is going to have SARS-COV-2 specific memory T cells too. I was speaking more towards that. And it is very likely (almost certain) T cells are more important than antibodies in acquired immunity.

Unfortunately it is very hard to study T cells in vivo (in the body) and how they fight specific diseases. HIV (AIDS) is one of the few pathogens where we have a very good understanding of how T cells interact with the disease, but that is because of the massive amount of resources that have been dedicated to HIV research over the last 30 years.

[Kalam]

As an aside, having a symptom free vaccination actually indicates you may have lower immunity moving forward (this is based on general theory and to the best of my knowledge hasn't been demonstrated to be the case with SARS-COV-2 vaccination). The symptoms of vaccination are actually caused by your immune response, and generally the stronger your immune response the more symptoms you are going to feel.

[BCR]

This is why I said before vaccinations that we might end up getting booster shots, but possibly might not need them. Idc, I’ll get one ASAP, but what you’re talking about is like all those T cell studies that were showing that mothers who had been exposed to other corona strains via their children seemed to be getting sick far less because of T cell protection. Peter Macneil was posting the studies and drew them to my attention, so obviously even if you had lessened or absent antibodies, having been exposed to actual Covid itself would, in theory, provide some immunity. As someone who had zero side effects from shot, I wouldn’t roll the dice, but its a comforting thought.

I wrote that quickly and meant it more as a question given your background. You’re taking like some degree of cross immunity via T cells, correct? That’s how I understood it, but this is your arena.

Anyone who has SARS-COV-2 specific antibodies (either due to vaccination or an immune response to getting Covid) is going to have SARS-COV-2 specific memory T cells too. I was speaking more towards that. And it is very likely (almost certain) T cells are more important than antibodies in acquired immunity.

Unfortunately it is very hard to study T cells in vivo (in the body) and how they fight specific diseases. HIV (AIDS) is one of the few pathogens where we have a very good understanding of how T cells interact with the disease, but that is because of the massive amount of resources that have been dedicated to HIV research over the last 30 years.

Ok. So maybe, but you’re not going to know? One of my childhood friends is listed as one of the inventors on the patent for Truvada and all those medications to prevent HIV up to Truvada. It was basically his life’s work at Gilead from early twenties until a few years back. He started his own company in the Bay Area that takes companies through the process now, and he touched upon that stuff with me when I asked him, but it was like you answered. Maybe, but hard to tell, and just get vaccine as we won’t know for a long time was basically his advice.

[BCR]

As an aside, having a symptom free vaccination actually indicates you may have lower immunity moving forward (this is based on general theory and to the best of my knowledge hasn't been demonstrated to be the case with SARS-COV-2 vaccination). The symptoms of vaccination are actually caused by your immune response, and generally the stronger your immune response the more symptoms you are going to feel.

I kind of assumed this as it seemed it was the inverse of getting the virus. From what I saw, older people were cruising through with almost no side effect. Younger were certainly having more. I’m in the middle of a 35 and and 65 year old. but most of my friends my age had none. Or very minor. Most none. I kind of wanted something.

[gimmick]

Anyone who has SARS-COV-2 specific antibodies (either due to vaccination or an immune response to getting Covid) is going to have SARS-COV-2 specific memory T cells too. I was speaking more towards that. And it is very likely (almost certain) T cells are more important than antibodies in acquired immunity.

Unfortunately it is very hard to study T cells in vivo (in the body) and how they fight specific diseases. HIV (AIDS) is one of the few pathogens where we have a very good understanding of how T cells interact with the disease, but that is because of the massive amount of resources that have been dedicated to HIV research over the last 30 years.

Ok. So maybe, but you’re not going to know? One of my childhood friends is listed as one of the inventors on the patent for Truvada and all those medications to prevent HIV up to Truvada. It was basically his life’s work at Gilead from early twenties until a few years back. He started his own company in the Bay Area that takes companies through the process now, and he touched upon that stuff with me when I asked him, but it was like you answered. Maybe, but hard to tell, and just get vaccine as we won’t know for a long time was basically his advice.

This was one of my replies to Druff 2 months ago...

"FDA, CDC and WHO are saying either you don't need it now or they don't have enough data.

Pfizer is saying it could be beneficial after 6-12 months.

Antibodies more or less always go down after a short period of time from vaccination/infection. Often the blueprints to make antibodies are saved for some time and mechanism to trigger production when needed. The latter part is why you can get infected and be symptomatic while avoiding serious illness.

There's no huge conspiracy."

...blueprints parts is the layman version of memory cells.

My belief is that various agencies are either playing it safe before enough data or they have some preliminary data to support the 3rd dose. There's "lag" in memory cell related immune response. It could be too long or there are other issues.

Some of the worst Covid related health issues are tied to immune system going haywire and causing too much damage when it goes against virus replication. Cytokine storm. It basically shotguns whatever it has against an "unknown" threat. The antibodies make it a "known" threat and response is appropriate.

[Kalam]

As an aside, having a symptom free vaccination actually indicates you may have lower immunity moving forward (this is based on general theory and to the best of my knowledge hasn't been demonstrated to be the case with SARS-COV-2 vaccination). The symptoms of vaccination are actually caused by your immune response, and generally the stronger your immune response the more symptoms you are going to feel.

I kind of assumed this as it seemed it was the inverse of getting the virus. From what I saw, older people were cruising through with almost no side effect. Younger were certainly having more. I’m in the middle of a 35 and and 65 year old. but most of my friends my age had none. Or very minor. Most none. I kind of wanted something.

We definitely know that generally age is inversely correlated to vaccine effectiveness (for all vaccines, not just this one specifically), which maps very well with what seems to be going on with Covid vaccines affecting the younger more (and also working better on them).

Another confounding variable is that anecdotally it seems people that have had the disease Covid generally have stronger immune responses to the vaccine (Again this makes sense theoretically, but hasn't been demonstrated scientifically to the best of my knowledge). So some of this could be people in their 20s-30s are more likely to have had a mild disease they didn't notice.

[Kalam]

Ok. So maybe, but you’re not going to know? One of my childhood friends is listed as one of the inventors on the patent for Truvada and all those medications to prevent HIV up to Truvada. It was basically his life’s work at Gilead from early twenties until a few years back. He started his own company in the Bay Area that takes companies through the process now, and he touched upon that stuff with me when I asked him, but it was like you answered. Maybe, but hard to tell, and just get vaccine as we won’t know for a long time was basically his advice.

This was one of my replies to Druff 2 months ago...

"FDA, CDC and WHO are saying either you don't need it now or they don't have enough data.

Pfizer is saying it could be beneficial after 6-12 months.

Antibodies more or less always go down after a short period of time from vaccination/infection. Often the blueprints to make antibodies are saved for some time and mechanism to trigger production when needed. The latter part is why you can get infected and be symptomatic while avoiding serious illness.

There's no huge conspiracy."

...blueprints parts is the layman version of memory cells.

My belief is that various agencies are either playing it safe before enough data or they have some preliminary data to support the 3rd dose. There's "lag" in memory cell related immune response. It could be too long or there are other issues.

Some of the worst Covid related health issues are tied to immune system going haywire and causing too much damage when it goes against virus replication. Cytokine storm. It basically shotguns whatever it has against an "unknown" threat. The antibodies make it a "known" threat and response is appropriate.

Generally, the shotgun approach (cytokine storms and other indicators of extreme systemic inflammation) happens when the more precise approach (adaptive immune system) fails. Last year when I was more interested in the virus and was reading papers, I remember reading research indicating that in the first week or so of the disease T cell levels increased dramatically (and for most people this seemed sufficient), but in some people this didn't seem to work and the body transitioned into a more general chaotic inflammation, which was linked to serious disease. Part of this is that if you can't contain the virus well in the beginning when it is more localized, it spreads to more and more tissues, and you will get systemic inflammation, cytokine storms, septic shock, multi organ failure, etc.

[gimmick]

This was one of my replies to Druff 2 months ago...

"FDA, CDC and WHO are saying either you don't need it now or they don't have enough data.

Pfizer is saying it could be beneficial after 6-12 months.

Antibodies more or less always go down after a short period of time from vaccination/infection. Often the blueprints to make antibodies are saved for some time and mechanism to trigger production when needed. The latter part is why you can get infected and be symptomatic while avoiding serious illness.

There's no huge conspiracy."

...blueprints parts is the layman version of memory cells.

My belief is that various agencies are either playing it safe before enough data or they have some preliminary data to support the 3rd dose. There's "lag" in memory cell related immune response. It could be too long or there are other issues.

Some of the worst Covid related health issues are tied to immune system going haywire and causing too much damage when it goes against virus replication. Cytokine storm. It basically shotguns whatever it has against an "unknown" threat. The antibodies make it a "known" threat and response is appropriate.

Generally, the shotgun approach (cytokine storms and other indicators of extreme systemic inflammation) happens when the more precise approach (adaptive immune system) fails. Last year when I was more interested in the virus and was reading papers, I remember reading research indicating that in the first week or so of the disease T cell levels increased dramatically (and for most people this seemed sufficient), but in some people this didn't seem to work and the body transitioned into a more general chaotic inflammation, which was linked to serious disease. Part of this is that if you can't contain the virus well in the beginning when it is more localized, it spreads to more and more tissues, and you will get systemic inflammation, cytokine storms, septic shock, multi organ failure, etc.

Yup some variation of the above.

I forgot to mention that there's also stuff related to mutation with booster shots. The 3rd shot isn't just the same shot, but something that's tailored to dominant strands. That also effects memory cells.

This covers roughly what's known now...

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20...-immunity.aspx

...with a good amount of jargon and the usual "this could be true, this is promising and we don't really know yet".

[BCR]

Ok. So maybe, but you’re not going to know? One of my childhood friends is listed as one of the inventors on the patent for Truvada and all those medications to prevent HIV up to Truvada. It was basically his life’s work at Gilead from early twenties until a few years back. He started his own company in the Bay Area that takes companies through the process now, and he touched upon that stuff with me when I asked him, but it was like you answered. Maybe, but hard to tell, and just get vaccine as we won’t know for a long time was basically his advice.

This was one of my replies to Druff 2 months ago...

"FDA, CDC and WHO are saying either you don't need it now or they don't have enough data.

Pfizer is saying it could be beneficial after 6-12 months.

Antibodies more or less always go down after a short period of time from vaccination/infection. Often the blueprints to make antibodies are saved for some time and mechanism to trigger production when needed. The latter part is why you can get infected and be symptomatic while avoiding serious illness.

There's no huge conspiracy."

...blueprints parts is the layman version of memory cells.

My belief is that various agencies are either playing it safe before enough data or they have some preliminary data to support the 3rd dose. There's "lag" in memory cell related immune response. It could be too long or there are other issues.

Some of the worst Covid related health issues are tied to immune system going haywire and causing too much damage when it goes against virus replication. Cytokine storm. It basically shotguns whatever it has against an "unknown" threat. The antibodies make it a "known" threat and response is appropriate.

This makes sense. My friend who found out her antibodies weren’t there on this test was actually part of a study group. They set it up to test employees, but also study them.

She felt really uncomfortable going into work after finding out hers came up negative, and she had a history of cancer, so she just opted for the booster. It kind of rendered her study worthless. She said to me I’m playing the cancer card, should I feel guilty?

Hers is also distant like mine. I told her I’d get it in her spot. North Carolina has these laws where she has to sign off on the use of remdeisiver. You need the doctor, then she gets involved as head of the pharmacy, and it has a limited supply and her write up goes to the state to justify it’s use. It makes her involved with everyone worst case who is right at deaths door when she’s at work as she needs to approve it . Seeing it every day, the idea of getting it has her shook and I could tell she was going to be a mess.

[sonatine]

india might have 4.5 million covid dead so far.


https://www.nber.org/papers/w29192

[dwai]

india might have 4.5 million covid dead so far.


https://www.nber.org/papers/w29192

more propaganda

[Walter Sobchak]

india might have 4.5 million covid dead so far.


https://www.nber.org/papers/w29192

more propaganda

INDIA MORE LIKE SPINDIA AMIRITE?

[sonatine]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CTSsA8wAR2-/

rogan got tagged. hes doing fine but apparently it was a little touch and go for a night or two.

[dwai]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CTSsA8wAR2-/

rogan got tagged. hes doing fine but apparently it was a little touch and go for a night or two.

no, it wasn't.


healthy people have no problem fighting off the common cold fat faggot

[Pablo]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CTSsA8wAR2-/

rogan got tagged. hes doing fine but apparently it was a little touch and go for a night or two.

no, it wasn't.


healthy people have no problem fighting off the common cold fat faggot

Just a little chicken soup and good to go

"So we immediately threw the kitchen sink at it. All kinds of meds. Monoclonal antibodies, ivermectin, Z-Pak, Prednisone, everything. And I also got an NAD drip and a vitamin drip, and I did that three days in a row. And so here we are on Wednesday and I feel great."

[TheXFactor]

Joe Rogan says he has Covid, took widely discredited horse drug ivermectin

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/01/joe-...vermectin.html

Just because you get $100 million for your shitty podcast doesn't mean you're smart.

Horse drugs don't cure or treat Covid in humans.

Too many people are dumber than shit.

[TheXFactor]

[Kalam]

no, it wasn't.


healthy people have no problem fighting off the common cold fat faggot

Just a little chicken soup and good to go

"So we immediately threw the kitchen sink at it. All kinds of meds. Monoclonal antibodies, ivermectin, Z-Pak, Prednisone, everything. And I also got an NAD drip and a vitamin drip, and I did that three days in a row. And so here we are on Wednesday and I feel great."

Rogan takes a ton of shit like that as a general rule. So for him throwing some Covid medicine on top of his normal stack of supplements, medicine and recreational drugs probably isn't any big deal.

[Kalam]

Joe Rogan says he has Covid, took widely discredited horse drug ivermectin

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/01/joe-...vermectin.html

Just because you get $100 million for your shitty podcast doesn't mean you're smart.

Horse drugs don't cure or treat Covid in humans.

Too many people are dumber than shit.

The "horse drug" narrative the MSM is pumping out is super dishonest and disingenuous. Ivermectin is an anti-parasite drug that is used in human medicine. It is also being used as a Covid treatment in much of the rest of the world, including India. Maybe it actually does something, maybe it doesn't. I don't know. But I certainly don't trust our media and medical community to give us a straight answer on this. They are way too compromised and dishonest.

I also don't doubt that if you are taking doses meant for 2000 lb animal, it could make you sick. That is probably the case with most medicines.