So coronavirus is definitely going to kill a few of us.

[Dan Druff]

FYI I do not recommend donating blood right now. I know there is a shortage but it’s not a good idea to lower your own immunity with all this bs going on. If you are a martyr, then go ahead, I don’t see the sense of saving another life while putting yours in jeopardy.

I've been having this exact conversation with Master Scalir.

He donates plasma twice a week for $40 each. While he's perpetually broke, he isn't even doing it for the money. It's a habit he's gotten into for the past 15 years, and his Asperger's drives him to want the same routine every day, even if that routine is harmful. So he has convinced himself that twice-per-week plasma donations are safe "or they wouldn't be allowing it."

He also filed for unemployment, has very few expenses (he doesn't drive and has a free Obamacare plan), and knows that I will always loan him money with VERY lax repayment terms if he's legitimately in a bind. So again, he's not doing this out of desperation for money during this crisis.

I explained to him the following:

1) They are "allowing it" because plasma donations are important for the medical system to keep functioning, so they have to leave such a thing open.

2) Every time he donates plasma, his body enters a recovery period, which leaves him more vulnerable to COVID-19. It's not as bad as donating blood, but it's also far more often, so the danger here is probably more overall.

3) The waiting room is full of drug addicts and scummy people who are so desperate for $40 that they are willing to take the COVID-19 risks to get it. These are the people least likely to be behaving responsibly regarding avoiding getting infected. He's in the same room with these people, and sitting far apart in the room isn't enough. You do not want to be in the same room with people with coronavirus -- period.

Keep in mind he's not doing this as a selfless act to help his fellow human beings. He's doing this mainly because it's a routine in his life, and he doesn't want to break it. He even admits this to me.

Ken is 50 and healthy, so while he's not in the 65+ danger zone, he's also not one of those young people who can just dismiss it as little risk. I'm 2 years younger than him, and I REALLY don't want to get this thing.

[Crowe Diddly]

Crowe, you are ascribing the most sinister of sinister motives to the US government because Trump is the one in charge.

Yes. What can I say, his track record of doing unimaginably cruel and sinister things makes that pretty easy. Also, I can't imagine anyone else even coming close to being as dangerous and despicable as he is, so I'm not in any position to argue your point. Sadly, though, its because I pay attention to what he does, and has done.

Hey, look, Trump just shut down the EPA. Cutting its funding by massive percentages year after year, destroying its ability to enforce laws, reorganizing its employees out of their specialties and replacing them with people with no experience, gutting our national parks like they were just another line on a balance sheet, endorsing coal use, gutting emissions regulations, and completely rolling back clean water protections that will certainly kill thousands of Americans, I guess that wasn't enough, so he has completely shut down all all EPA enforcement now, with no date to open back up. Guy wants everyone back in church by Easter, but I will bet my life that he won;t be rushing back EPA enforcement of anything until well past that. Decisions like these end up killing US citizens by large numbers over long periods of time, and often can take decades to fix.

I could, unfortunately, do this for hours, with dozens of examples, in almost every area of the federal government since he took over. I don't even care about his motivations anymore, because the actions speak for themselves, but Christ, he tells us over and over what he values, and its money over human lives every time. Every. Single. Time.

Trump had access to the best possible intelligence on this disease since the end of last year, and he chose not to believe any of it until it was too late, calling it a hoax and saying it would be gone soon, at the worst possible time. His gut told him it was all gonna be fine. He tells a staggering amount of lies every time he gets in front of a microphone about what the disease is, how it works, denies what he said even a day or 2 earlier, blames everyone he can possibly blame, LITERALLY SAYING HE TAKES NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY OF THIS, ...

You can say what you want about people not knowing how bad this was gonna be, but you cannot say that about the President, because its flatly not true. You can only say he doesn't listen to the people who know the subject better than almost any other group of people in the world.

[Dan Druff]

Sky News Australia is doing the rewriting of history.

Hubei officials were the ones doing the hiding, from Beijing!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...ening-outward/

"Between Dec. 31 and Jan. 20, China’s National Health Commission (NHC) dispatched three teams of experts to Wuhan. The first two teams struggled to gather evidence that the novel coronavirus was transmittable from human to human. They were stymied by local interests intent on keeping the epidemic under wraps"

I will defer to your proximity to the epicenter as compared to mine, but these provincial governments are part of the layered structure of government that generally allows the Chinese Communist Party to control just about everything. That the provincial government attempted to hide the virus outbreak is logical behavior since they rightly expected to be scapegoated by the national government and the CCP for the outbreak. The national government and the CCP does not get to skate because they set up a system that results in this kind of desperate behavior by the provincials anxious to save their positions and avoid possible incarceration and even execution.

100% correct

This reminds me of how Wells Fargo top executives claimed that it wasn't their fault that fraudulent accounts were set up in order to meet quotas, because their underlings were lying to them about it. It was all the fault of branch managers and low-level employees, you see.

But of course, it wasn't.

Wells Fargo intentionally set up unrealistic "new account" goals for branches, with threats of dire employment consequences if these branches failed. So branch managers, fearing their jobs, instructed underlings to commit this fraud, sometimes in coded language to give plausible deniability. And the underlings, fearing their jobs, committed the fraud, so they'd meet their quotas. These results were inevitable. Additionally, anyone who tried to complain was quickly silenced.

Same thing goes here with China. The provincial and local officials fear dire consequences if they don't "get it under control", so they do what they need to do in order to report what the national government wants to hear. Those who try to report otherwise are quickly "dealt with".

This is why it's not even close to fair to compare the Chinese government to the US government, even with the qualifier of, "Well, of course China is worse."

It's not even close. If the level of US wrongdoing is 10, the level of China wrongdoing is 1000. At least.

The fact that an authoritarian, secretive, notoriously selfish government is at the epicenter of this is the reason why this got so bad.

[TheXFactor]

So I have an upcoming Alaska Airlines flight that I'm obv not going on. Despite them claiming they're "waiving cancelation fees", they're only offering me a flight credit for a future flight, which expires in 11 months. They won't refund my flights to my credit card. WTF

Is the flight cancelled? If it is, you have a legal right to a refund. They can't force you to take a credit. The credit only comes into play when you choose not to go on the flight, and this is kind of a concerssion.

The problem, of course, is that many people don't want a credit, because their reason to fly is no longer. (For example, if Vegas is closed, you don't want to go there.)

Unfortunately these are blanket policies and there's a 0.0 percent chance you can call them and talk your way out of this.

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[Crowe Diddly]

FYI, I've donated blood every few months for years, almost at the 5 gallon mark as far as volume.

I'm 100% gonna donate mid-April when I can again. I go to the Red Cross near me. They are well versed in all possible precautionary procedures, they only employ highly trained people, etc. Right now, they only let you into the building by appointment, everyone is wearing masks, and their already unimpeachable cleaning regimen has been taken to every extreme it can be taken to.

Legit blood banks are nothing like the type of place Ken goes to. There are no scummy people, there are no drug dealers, and anyone who they have even a slight concern about gets turned away, as SOP.

Telling people not to give blood is terrible advice. People not donating blood kills people.

Telling people to give blood safely helps everyone.

Don't sell your shit to shady for-profit blood banks. Go to your local Red Cross.

[TheXFactor]

He also filed for unemployment

Don't you have to pay into unemployment in order to file for it?

Or maybe you can get it in California regardless if you haven't worked in years?

[Dan Druff]

Crowe, you are ascribing the most sinister of sinister motives to the US government because Trump is the one in charge.

Yes. What can I say, his track record of doing unimaginably cruel and sinister things makes that pretty easy. Also, I can't imagine anyone else even coming close to being as dangerous and despicable as he is, so I'm not in any position to argue your point. Sadly, though, its because I pay attention to what he does, and has done.

Hey, look, Trump just shut down the EPA. Cutting its funding by massive percentages year after year, destroying its ability to enforce laws, reorganizing its employees out of their specialties and replacing them with people with no experience, gutting our national parks like they were just another line on a balance sheet, endorsing coal use, gutting emissions regulations, and completely rolling back clean water protections that will certainly kill thousands of Americans, I guess that wasn't enough, so he has completely shut down all all EPA enforcement now, with no date to open back up. Guy wants everyone back in church by Easter, but I will bet my life that he won;t be rushing back EPA enforcement of anything until well past that. Decisions like these end up killing US citizens by large numbers over long periods of time, and often can take decades to fix.

I could, unfortunately, do this for hours, with dozens of examples, in almost every area of the federal government since he took over. I don't even care about his motivations anymore, because the actions speak for themselves, but Christ, he tells us over and over what he values, and its money over human lives every time. Every. Single. Time.

Trump had access to the best possible intelligence on this disease since the end of last year, and he chose not to believe any of it until it was too late, calling it a hoax and saying it would be gone soon, at the worst possible time. His gut told him it was all gonna be fine. He tells a staggering amount of lies every time he gets in front of a microphone about what the disease is, how it works, denies what he said even a day or 2 earlier, blames everyone he can possibly blame, LITERALLY SAYING HE TAKES NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY OF THIS, ...

You can say what you want about people not knowing how bad this was gonna be, but you cannot say that about the President, because its flatly not true. You can only say he doesn't listen to the people who know the subject better than almost any other group of people in the world.

Trump is actually a lot more complex than he appears. Many Trump-haters believe the simple narrative that he's an evil man who is in office to enrich himself further. They also cast him as a horrible racist, anti-Semite, and homophobe, who wants to return the rule of America to white Christian males. Basically they see him as a caricature of a politician villain from a poorly written movie.

In reality, little of this is true.

Trump has some major faults, for sure. Anyone who says otherwise is in denial. He's personally selfish and vindictive. He probably has Narcissistic Personality Disorder. He will never admit fault for anything, only speaks in superlatives, and will lie on the spot if he thinks it will sound good. He consistently acts like a troll on Twitter, which is the opposite of Presidential. I'm not happy about any of these things, and I see them all clearly.

However, he isn't an evil mastermind looking to do the very worst things possible in order to make himself look best. As I said, at the beginning of the outbreak, Trump thought to himself, "This will probably pass, and the last thing I want is to have all of these cases suddenly reported as occurring under my watch, when they occurred on a damn cruise ship in the ocean! I don't want these people disembarking!"

That decision was indeed selfish and aimed at raising his chances of winning the election.

However, there's a huge distance between that and knowingly withholding testing from Americans so the outbreak looks less severe. We're waaaaaaaaaaay past that point. The country is shut down. Everyone is told to stay home and literally do nothing. Even Trump admits that this is a huge problem, and that we will probably have more misery ahead. Right now, better testing would bring GOOD news in all likelihood -- that most people with COVID-19 aren't ending up in hospitals or in the ground. Trump would LOVE to be able to report that, thanks to extensive testing, we now know that the death rate is only 0.3% (I'm just making up numbers here). That would also give him more justification to reopen the country.

The "Easter" thing is also being overblown. Trump stated this as a hope of his. He never said that he actually plans to do this. He's correct that we can't just sit there indefinitely with almost the entire country closed and everyone staying home. This would absolutely destroy the economy and probably send us to into a major depression. At some point, a tough decision must be made as to whether we take some COVID-19 risk back on, in exchange for saving the economy long term. As Trump said, there is also death and misery resulting from an economic depression, so that also can't be ignored, or we may be trading one bad problem for an even worse one.

There's no easy solution here, and many things have been mismanaged thus far, but Trump is also being unfairly vilified by many, including you. I do not believe for a second that he's trying to suppress testing. No way.

[DonaldTrumpsHairPiece]

If you believe the reaction and coverage to this "pandemic" is at all rational and required vs keeping the elderly and compromised in doors.... you are young, old and stupid, old and forgetful or a liberal.

When Obama was President as many died of the swine flu as diagnosed with coronavirus as he played golf, never restocked masks etc, let that sink in.

You cannot talk math with someone who knows what over reaction is... oh and math.

This "pandemic" has not only shut down any democratic dream of ousting Trump but it has made him stronger!

Exactly the opposite of what the liberal media and Pelosi hoped for.

[Hockey Guy]

FYI I do not recommend donating blood right now. I know there is a shortage but it’s not a good idea to lower your own immunity with all this bs going on. If you are a martyr, then go ahead, I don’t see the sense of saving another life while putting yours in jeopardy.

You forgot to mention that when there is a vaccine developed that nobody should take it because it will cause autism.

Hard to believe somebody in the healthcare profession would come up with this hot take.

[Dan Druff]

FYI, I've donated blood every few months for years, almost at the 5 gallon mark as far as volume.

I'm 100% gonna donate mid-April when I can again. I go to the Red Cross near me. They are well versed in all possible precautionary procedures, they only employ highly trained people, etc. Right now, they only let you into the building by appointment, everyone is wearing masks, and their already unimpeachable cleaning regimen has been taken to every extreme it can be taken to.

Legit blood banks are nothing like the type of place Ken goes to. There are no scummy people, there are no drug dealers, and anyone who they have even a slight concern about gets turned away, as SOP.

Telling people not to give blood is terrible advice. People not donating blood kills people.

Telling people to give blood safely helps everyone.

Don't sell your shit to shady for-profit blood banks. Go to your local Red Cross.

This is very selfless of you. I did have the blood-versus-plasma argument with Ken. I explained that blood donations occur less frequently, and also the type of people doing so are more likely good people trying to help, rather than drug addicts looking for their twice-per-week $40.

I think splitthis was making the point that you are putting yourself at further health risk by doing so, because your body has to recover from the blood donation. So you should be aware of this before going in, and decide if the risk is worth it. You're correct that if everyone decided it was too dangerous to give blood, we would have a big problem. It's an individual decision.

If Ken was giving the plasma because he felt like it was duty to do so as a human being, I wouldn't give him a hard time. However, when he's doing it just because of an internal drive to keep up routines, I had to say something.

[Crowe Diddly]

Hey, remember when Trump told us that getting medical equipment and ventilators was the job of the governors?

Well, here's MA's Republican governor telling the president that he DID order tons of medical gear, and it was all confirmed and ready to go, but guess who took all the orders in the end? The federal government.

Stay for Trump laughing at this.

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[Dan Druff]

FYI I do not recommend donating blood right now. I know there is a shortage but it’s not a good idea to lower your own immunity with all this bs going on. If you are a martyr, then go ahead, I don’t see the sense of saving another life while putting yours in jeopardy.

You forgot to mention that when there is a vaccine developed that nobody should take it because it will cause autism.

Hard to believe somebody in the healthcare profession would come up with this hot take.

This isn't anything like the vaccine-causes-autism BS.

There is a very good chance that, shortly after donating blood, you are more susceptible to more severe reactions to COVID-19, as your body is in recovery mode.

As I said in the last post, it's an individual decision. You need to decide if you're willing to take on a small additional risk to your health in order to save others who need the blood.

[splitthis]

FYI, I've donated blood every few months for years, almost at the 5 gallon mark as far as volume.

I'm 100% gonna donate mid-April when I can again. I go to the Red Cross near me. They are well versed in all possible precautionary procedures, they only employ highly trained people, etc. Right now, they only let you into the building by appointment, everyone is wearing masks, and their already unimpeachable cleaning regimen has been taken to every extreme it can be taken to.

Legit blood banks are nothing like the type of place Ken goes to. There are no scummy people, there are no drug dealers, and anyone who they have even a slight concern about gets turned away, as SOP.

Telling people not to give blood is terrible advice. People not donating blood kills people.

Telling people to give blood safely helps everyone.

Don't sell your shit to shady for-profit blood banks. Go to your local Red Cross.

That is not the point, they are taking your antibodies which are needed by you if you come in contact with covid.

[sonatine]

also any blood donation center is going to be an absolute star spangled petri dish.

[Crowe Diddly]

That is not the point, they are taking your antibodies which are needed by you if you come in contact with covid.

Demonstrably not true, as we cannot have covid-19 antibodies for them to take unless we were already sick and recovered.

[Crowe Diddly]

also any blood donation center is going to be an absolute star spangled petri dish.

why say shit like this? I've been to 4 different RC Blood centers in my state in the last decade, and not a single one fits that description. In fact, they are totally the opposite.

[splitthis]

That is not the point, they are taking your antibodies which are needed by you if you come in contact with covid.

Demonstrably not true, as we cannot have covid-19 antibodies for them to take unless we were already sick and recovered.

I don’t know how to make this any more simple. Your levels of antibodies that help fight all types of infections are lowered after you donate blood. Unfortunately at this time, there is a bug out there that can kill you and you need all your body has to fight it.

[Hockey Guy]

You forgot to mention that when there is a vaccine developed that nobody should take it because it will cause autism.

Hard to believe somebody in the healthcare profession would come up with this hot take.

This isn't anything like the vaccine-causes-autism BS.

There is a very good chance that, shortly after donating blood, you are more susceptible to more severe reactions to COVID-19, as your body is in recovery mode.

As I said in the last post, it's an individual decision. You need to decide if you're willing to take on a small additional risk to your health in order to save others who need the blood.

As a supposed healthcare professional she should be giving proper info to make it safer for you so you can make an informed decision if you decide to do this selfless act rather than actively discouraging people from doing it.

[splitthis]

This isn't anything like the vaccine-causes-autism BS.

There is a very good chance that, shortly after donating blood, you are more susceptible to more severe reactions to COVID-19, as your body is in recovery mode.

As I said in the last post, it's an individual decision. You need to decide if you're willing to take on a small additional risk to your health in order to save others who need the blood.

As a supposed healthcare professional she should be giving proper info to make it safer for you so you can make an informed decision if you decide to do this selfless act rather than actively discouraging people from doing it.

You are full retard today.

[nunbeater]

1000 have died of the virus in the last 5 days*

The value of life is an interesting thing to think about though. Does the value of each life go down as the total population goes up? Or is it just the chances of you or a loved one dying that matters.

What value do you put on a random persons life, and what does your risk tolerance look like for your own life and people you know.

I've been doing some morbid thought experiments lately.

A: Shut down entire country for 30 days
B: Kill X random people

What's the minimum value of X that would make you choose A?


What about if it were only older sicker people?
What if you knew one of the deaths would someone you've hugged in the last 3 years?
What if it were 3 months, or a year, or a day?

I know current situation is far more complicated, it's just a thought experiment.

There are people who do this for a living. Do we spend $150 more per car * 1,000,000 cars and use gold widgets in the air bag or do we let 3 people die due to faulty connectors.

$150M or 3 * whatever a lawsuit would cost us

It’s semi morbid in these terms but in reality we make these decisions every day.