So coronavirus is definitely going to kill a few of us.

[FRANKRIZZO]

$10,000 for covid vaccine shot

In NJ you can get one for free if you check the 'obese' or 'smoker' box and they don't even weigh you or make you smoke or to prove it.

Good to know. The 10k per person for 2 people was advertised on Craigs List. The guy who looked like mid 60s had news station put down 1k to a non for profit charity type company. 2 reporters came and questioned him. charity returned the 1k the guy sheepishly drove away. Also covid waivers on the horizon? 740million people have filed for financial relief since the inception of the corona.

[Dan Druff]

You don't think it was made in a lab?

Even the WHO has come around to admit this is a serious possibility, and are supposedly investigating.

Which is more likely? COVID being made in a Wuhan lab, or Jussie having been a victim of a racist attack?

It wasn't made in a lab.

WHO didn't admit it was a serious possibility, and if they did it was early on and it's not their stance now.

I never said Jussie was attacked.

Here’s how scientists know the coronavirus came from bats and wasn’t made in a lab
https://theconversation.com/heres-ho...n-a-lab-141850

Why misinformation about COVID-19’s origins keeps going viral <===this article explains why you didn't understand how Wuhan/Bioweapon was on a list of conspiracy theories
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/s...act-check-cvd/

It could have come from bats AND been reproduced in a lab.

The WHO is presently in Wuhan to investigate the origins of it. One of the places of investigation? The Wuhan Lab of Virology.

So GTFO with your belief that it's impossible to have come from a lab. Nobody knows for sure, but your arrogant dismissal of this as crazy is obnoxious.





Also


JUSSIE

[Dan Druff]

Embedded Tweet

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1354812990885781521



If only Democrats were in charge, COVID would have been handled!!!!!!11

[duped_samaritan]

It wasn't made in a lab.

WHO didn't admit it was a serious possibility, and if they did it was early on and it's not their stance now.

I never said Jussie was attacked.

Here’s how scientists know the coronavirus came from bats and wasn’t made in a lab
https://theconversation.com/heres-ho...n-a-lab-141850

Why misinformation about COVID-19’s origins keeps going viral <===this article explains why you didn't understand how Wuhan/Bioweapon was on a list of conspiracy theories
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/s...act-check-cvd/

It could have come from bats AND been reproduced in a lab.

The WHO is presently in Wuhan to investigate the origins of it. One of the places of investigation? The Wuhan Lab of Virology.

So GTFO with your belief that it's impossible to have come from a lab. Nobody knows for sure, but your arrogant dismissal of this as crazy is obnoxious.





Also


JUSSIE

Are you saying that they could've reproduced the virus without leaving any evidence that would be detected by other scientists? If so, where are you getting this information?

I could give you boatloads of peer reviewed research and opinions supporting the stance that the virus was not created in a lab if you like. But the only support I can find for your argument seems to be from right wing media.

[gimmick]

It could have come from bats AND been reproduced in a lab.

The WHO is presently in Wuhan to investigate the origins of it. One of the places of investigation? The Wuhan Lab of Virology.

So GTFO with your belief that it's impossible to have come from a lab. Nobody knows for sure, but your arrogant dismissal of this as crazy is obnoxious.





Also


JUSSIE

Are you saying that they could've reproduced the virus without leaving any evidence that would be detected by other scientists? If so, where are you getting this information?

I could give you boatloads of peer reviewed research and opinions supporting the stance that the virus was not created in a lab if you like. But the only support I can find for your argument seems to be from right wing media.

This is pretty pointless considering how much evidence exists that it wasn't reproduced or engineered in any way. And as i mentioned before is not something WHO is currently investigating.

The sane line for "came from a lab" is about accidents relating to sample collection, storage or study. The conspiracy about a lab/bioweapon doesn't refer to that at all.

Probably need to mention that by reproducing we're also not talking about cultivating. Letting it multiply on it's own. That's relatively easy. Building it from scratch or modifying an existing benign virus is insanely hard and will leave marks.

And as you said most of the "proof" about any of the engineering comes from a Bannon funded non-peer reviewed paper that's completely worthless when it comes to basic science/forensics.

CDC is among others an organization that stores, collects, studies, cultivates and sells viruses/bacteria. Once upon a time they sold with American Type Culture Collection prerequisites of Anthrax to Iraq. There is nothing out of the ordinary with any of that. Excluding the war crime part. Where i'm going with this is that there are labs within US that could cause a viral Chernobyl on any given day.

[Dan Druff]

Are you saying that they could've reproduced the virus without leaving any evidence that would be detected by other scientists? If so, where are you getting this information?

I could give you boatloads of peer reviewed research and opinions supporting the stance that the virus was not created in a lab if you like. But the only support I can find for your argument seems to be from right wing media.

This is pretty pointless considering how much evidence exists that it wasn't reproduced or engineered in any way. And as i mentioned before is not something WHO is currently investigating.

The sane line for "came from a lab" is about accidents relating to sample collection, storage or study. The conspiracy about a lab/bioweapon doesn't refer to that at all.

Probably need to mention that by reproducing we're also not talking about cultivating. Letting it multiply on it's own. That's relatively easy. Building it from scratch or modifying an existing benign virus is insanely hard and will leave marks.

And as you said most of the "proof" about any of the engineering comes from a Bannon funded non-peer reviewed paper that's completely worthless when it comes to basic science/forensics.

CDC is among others an organization that stores, collects, studies, cultivates and sells viruses/bacteria. Once upon a time they sold with American Type Culture Collection prerequisites of Anthrax to Iraq. There is nothing out of the ordinary with any of that. Excluding the war crime part. Where i'm going with this is that there are labs within US that could cause a viral Chernobyl on any given day.

The problem here is that there's a lot of unknowns, and anyone asserting they "know" the origins is just blowing smoke.

This is especially true when it comes to China, a horrible government which does a lot of evil things, and which is the opposite of transparent. If a lab was involved, there's a good chance it was indeed for weapons research. Since everything is bottled up so tight there, we will probably never get the truth.

I'm not sure why you are trying to draw the distinction whether the lab created it from scratch or simply reproduced a virus they discovered in nature. For the purposes of this discussion, it's not important. The question is if we're in this mess because they were screwing around with COVID-19 in a lab, and the answer very possibly is yes.

Unfortunately, the left has politicized this, as they decided back in February 2020 that they're going to defend China as much as possible, once Trump referred to it as "the Chinese virus". It was perceived that any vilification of China in regards to COVID would validate Trump's rhetoric, so the left made it their mission to make China look as innocent as possible. Laughably, they were even pushing China's "handling" of COVID as a success story, even though the precipitous drop in cases/deaths made no sense, and clearly were a lie.

I see duped_samaritan was duped again, though.

[adamantium]

This is pretty pointless considering how much evidence exists that it wasn't reproduced or engineered in any way. And as i mentioned before is not something WHO is currently investigating.

The sane line for "came from a lab" is about accidents relating to sample collection, storage or study. The conspiracy about a lab/bioweapon doesn't refer to that at all.

Probably need to mention that by reproducing we're also not talking about cultivating. Letting it multiply on it's own. That's relatively easy. Building it from scratch or modifying an existing benign virus is insanely hard and will leave marks.

And as you said most of the "proof" about any of the engineering comes from a Bannon funded non-peer reviewed paper that's completely worthless when it comes to basic science/forensics.

CDC is among others an organization that stores, collects, studies, cultivates and sells viruses/bacteria. Once upon a time they sold with American Type Culture Collection prerequisites of Anthrax to Iraq. There is nothing out of the ordinary with any of that. Excluding the war crime part. Where i'm going with this is that there are labs within US that could cause a viral Chernobyl on any given day.

The problem here is that there's a lot of unknowns, and anyone asserting they "know" the origins is just blowing smoke.

This is especially true when it comes to China, a horrible government which does a lot of evil things, and which is the opposite of transparent. If a lab was involved, there's a good chance it was indeed for weapons research. Since everything is bottled up so tight there, we will probably never get the truth.

I'm not sure why you are trying to draw the distinction whether the lab created it from scratch or simply reproduced a virus they discovered in nature. For the purposes of this discussion, it's not important. The question is if we're in this mess because they were screwing around with COVID-19 in a lab, and the answer very possibly is yes.

Unfortunately, the left has politicized this, as they decided back in February 2020 that they're going to defend China as much as possible, once Trump referred to it as "the Chinese virus". It was perceived that any vilification of China in regards to COVID would validate Trump's rhetoric, so the left made it their mission to make China look as innocent as possible. Laughably, they were even pushing China's "handling" of COVID as a success story, even though the precipitous drop in cases/deaths made no sense, and clearly were a lie.

I see duped_samaritan was duped again, though.

And yet you are able to pretty much tell us what happend

[gimmick]

This is pretty pointless considering how much evidence exists that it wasn't reproduced or engineered in any way. And as i mentioned before is not something WHO is currently investigating.

The sane line for "came from a lab" is about accidents relating to sample collection, storage or study. The conspiracy about a lab/bioweapon doesn't refer to that at all.

Probably need to mention that by reproducing we're also not talking about cultivating. Letting it multiply on it's own. That's relatively easy. Building it from scratch or modifying an existing benign virus is insanely hard and will leave marks.

And as you said most of the "proof" about any of the engineering comes from a Bannon funded non-peer reviewed paper that's completely worthless when it comes to basic science/forensics.

CDC is among others an organization that stores, collects, studies, cultivates and sells viruses/bacteria. Once upon a time they sold with American Type Culture Collection prerequisites of Anthrax to Iraq. There is nothing out of the ordinary with any of that. Excluding the war crime part. Where i'm going with this is that there are labs within US that could cause a viral Chernobyl on any given day.

The problem here is that there's a lot of unknowns, and anyone asserting they "know" the origins is just blowing smoke.

This is especially true when it comes to China, a horrible government which does a lot of evil things, and which is the opposite of transparent. If a lab was involved, there's a good chance it was indeed for weapons research. Since everything is bottled up so tight there, we will probably never get the truth.

I'm not sure why you are trying to draw the distinction whether the lab created it from scratch or simply reproduced a virus they discovered in nature. For the purposes of this discussion, it's not important. The question is if we're in this mess because they were screwing around with COVID-19 in a lab, and the answer very possibly is yes.

Unfortunately, the left has politicized this, as they decided back in February 2020 that they're going to defend China as much as possible, once Trump referred to it as "the Chinese virus". It was perceived that any vilification of China in regards to COVID would validate Trump's rhetoric, so the left made it their mission to make China look as innocent as possible. Laughably, they were even pushing China's "handling" of COVID as a success story, even though the precipitous drop in cases/deaths made no sense, and clearly were a lie.

I see duped_samaritan was duped again, though.

Weapon research and vaccine research are usually done in same facilities. This is at least how US, Russia and China have traditionally done it. It's for masking purposes and "legality".

For the purposes of the conspiracy the lab made meant engineered, retrofitted to function as a weapon. There is no proof of that. That is also something that can be studied from samples of the virus and that is also something that was done. Literally no traces of it.

Why i make a distinction is because that's the difference of Chernobyl being a accident related to reactor malfunction and a nuclear bomb. Don't worry there was plenty of conspiracies about the latter. These conspiracies weren't true. That was verified by science/forensics.

We don't live in a world where we assume we can't know anything. It's not worth mentioning. Ever. We don't waste time with the philosophy of knowledge. Because if we did, we wouldn't get anything done. We just assume that things we're 95% sure are true are 100% in practice. If you enjoy philosophical masturbation the half-life of knowledge touches this.

There are laboratories in US, EU, Russia and China that fuck around with viruses and bacteria everyday. They all cultivate them. This is all above board. Nothing sketchy about it. That's how vaccines are created. That's is how we preserve things found in the wild. The conspiracy about lab made has nothing to do with it. Well maybe it's an easier sell if the recipient doesn't know how common it is.

I can say with 100% certainty that China was fucking around with corona virus strains. Covid-19 isn't a certainty. It could have mutated significantly on the way.

Oh and incase anyone is wondering Pfizer and Moderna created the vaccines by fucking around with Covid-19.

[Dan Druff]

Why do you keep trying to debate a straw man regarding the claim of it being a "certainty"?

I don't see anyone here claiming that.

The only person certain here is duped_samaritan, who thinks that SCIENCE has proven it's impossible to have come from a lab.

[gimmick]

Why do you keep trying to debate a straw man regarding the claim of it being a "certainty"?

I don't see anyone here claiming that.

The only person certain here is duped_samaritan, who thinks that SCIENCE has proven it's impossible to have come from a lab.

You for real?

"The problem here is that there's a lot of unknowns, and anyone asserting they "know" the origins is just blowing smoke."-Dan Druff on the very post i quoted that this was a response to

For as much as we're capable of knowing it didn't come from a lab, if that is another way of saying it was engineered. Meaning it's genetic makeup was altered to repurpose a benign flu variant to a bioweapon. We know it wasn't. You're the dumbass who needs to come up with the proof to show otherwise.

[gimmick]

There's a huge difference with historical account of the Rothchilds and antisemitic conspiracy theories about their influence. Maybe that's close enough to home that you understand why distinction matters.

[gimmick]

From the ancient times of 2019...

"Problems with disposal of dangerous materials led the government to suspend research at the military’s leading biodefense center"

...that was Maryland. One of 263 labs that are part of a program run by the C.D.C. and the United States Department of Agriculture. Program that exclusively works with select agents...

"The suspended research involves certain toxins, along with germs called select agents, which the government has determined have “the potential to pose a severe threat to public, animal or plant health or to animal or plant products.”

...so it's just the really murdery ones. Ebola and friends. This is very much just basic research. And the same thing goes on in EU, Russia and China. Leaks are a possibility everywhere.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/05/h...biohazard.html

[garrett]

It wasn't made in a lab.

WHO didn't admit it was a serious possibility, and if they did it was early on and it's not their stance now.

I never said Jussie was attacked.

Here’s how scientists know the coronavirus came from bats and wasn’t made in a lab
https://theconversation.com/heres-ho...n-a-lab-141850

Why misinformation about COVID-19’s origins keeps going viral <===this article explains why you didn't understand how Wuhan/Bioweapon was on a list of conspiracy theories
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/s...act-check-cvd/

It could have come from bats AND been reproduced in a lab.

The WHO is presently in Wuhan to investigate the origins of it. One of the places of investigation? The Wuhan Lab of Virology.

So GTFO with your belief that it's impossible to have come from a lab. Nobody knows for sure, but your arrogant dismissal of this as crazy is obnoxious.





Also


JUSSIE

I have to admit, when I see duped_samaritan needling Druff I lol, and thinks its great and pretty predictable now. Its always pretty predictable imo, and clearly duped_samartian does not seem to like much speculation, or assumption lol... He wants factually based and statistics proving facts only...

I get some honest lols, when I see duped starting to predictablly take a few jabs at druff for sure haha......

[Dan Druff]

Why do you keep trying to debate a straw man regarding the claim of it being a "certainty"?

I don't see anyone here claiming that.

The only person certain here is duped_samaritan, who thinks that SCIENCE has proven it's impossible to have come from a lab.

You for real?

"The problem here is that there's a lot of unknowns, and anyone asserting they "know" the origins is just blowing smoke."-Dan Druff on the very post i quoted that this was a response to

For as much as we're capable of knowing it didn't come from a lab, if that is another way of saying it was engineered. Meaning it's genetic makeup was altered to repurpose a benign flu variant to a bioweapon. We know it wasn't. You're the dumbass who needs to come up with the proof to show otherwise.

So you think it's either bioengineered from something benign, or it's innocent? You're making absolutely no sense.

Here's a hypothetical example:

Researchers find a virus in bats which would be perfect to use as a bioweapon, and decide to research reproducing it. While the virus could live in humans, it doesn't transmit from bats to humans particularly easily, especially given that humans have little contact with live bats in the wild. However, if reproduced and artificially spread, it could easily become a pandemic due to its high contagiousness.

While researching it, a scientist in Wuhan is careless and catches the virus. He then goes out and transmits it. Exponential spread occurs (I know you love that term), and in not too long, it's a huge problem all over the world.

This would be a case where it did come from a lab, even if its origins were natural. I'm not saying that it happened this way, but it's laughable that you are acting that it's absurd to be talking about the lab.

Why is the WHO looking at the lab? They just love the cafeteria there?

[mickeycrimm]

What is highly suspicious to me is early on China placed travel restrictions within their own country but not for international travel. WTF?

[gimmick]

You for real?

"The problem here is that there's a lot of unknowns, and anyone asserting they "know" the origins is just blowing smoke."-Dan Druff on the very post i quoted that this was a response to

For as much as we're capable of knowing it didn't come from a lab, if that is another way of saying it was engineered. Meaning it's genetic makeup was altered to repurpose a benign flu variant to a bioweapon. We know it wasn't. You're the dumbass who needs to come up with the proof to show otherwise.

So you think it's either bioengineered from something benign, or it's innocent? You're making absolutely no sense.

Here's a hypothetical example:

Researchers find a virus in bats which would be perfect to use as a bioweapon, and decide to research reproducing it. While the virus could live in humans, it doesn't transmit from bats to humans particularly easily, especially given that humans have little contact with live bats in the wild. However, if reproduced and artificially spread, it could easily become a pandemic due to its high contagiousness.

While researching it, a scientist in Wuhan is careless and catches the virus. He then goes out and transmits it. Exponential spread occurs (I know you love that term), and in not too long, it's a huge problem all over the world.

This would be a case where it did come from a lab, even if its origins were natural. I'm not saying that it happened this way, but it's laughable that you are acting that it's absurd to be talking about the lab.

Why is the WHO looking at the lab? They just love the cafeteria there?

Your hypothetical without any mention of weapon or engineering is what was always a possibility. No one is saying that is impossible or that it has been proven to be impossible. But that's not the conspiracy theory. Do you understand that?

There is 0.0% proof that China has been trying to weaponize corona. If you're looking to embrace the conspiracy, provide the proof. There already exists research that discount it. There already exists research that shows it is extremely unlikely or impossible that the closest corona virus variant that was found in the wild in 2013 could have been engineered or cultivated intentionally in to Covid-19.

From that batch of 293 different corona viruses that were collected between 2013-2016 only 1 RaTG13 was 96.2% match. And the consensus of scientific community is roughly this...

"While RaTG13 is the closest known relative - at 96.2% similarity - it is still too distant to have been manipulated and changed into Sars-Cov-2"

...all conspiracy theories that are not completely batshitcrazy say otherwise.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55364445

Regarding your question about the lab in question there are multiple reasons for it. One of those is an accidental leak. Accidental leak of a non-bioengineered sample. Another reason is retarded conspiracy theories that apparently need to be squashed every few months. The article above answers few of those questions, but i assume it's too much work to actually read it and learn something instead of creating a wall of text with hypotheticals and bad faith arguments.

[gimmick]

Decent piece on why it isn't a bioweapon.

https://medicalrepublic.com.au/how-w...om-a-lab/31440

One of many.

TLDR: Bioweapons are not made from benign weakly transmitting viruses. No one has the technological knowhow for it. Anyone that's close doesn't start from weak bat flu. There's about a 100 better starting points. Simulated natural selection or sped-up cultivation of a virus doesn't create a good counter to human immune system without resistance. Meaning that doesn't exist in a petri dish, so there's no reason for the virus to counter that by masking itself.

[BCR]

You for real?

"The problem here is that there's a lot of unknowns, and anyone asserting they "know" the origins is just blowing smoke."-Dan Druff on the very post i quoted that this was a response to

For as much as we're capable of knowing it didn't come from a lab, if that is another way of saying it was engineered. Meaning it's genetic makeup was altered to repurpose a benign flu variant to a bioweapon. We know it wasn't. You're the dumbass who needs to come up with the proof to show otherwise.

So you think it's either bioengineered from something benign, or it's innocent? You're making absolutely no sense.

Here's a hypothetical example:

Researchers find a virus in bats which would be perfect to use as a bioweapon, and decide to research reproducing it. While the virus could live in humans, it doesn't transmit from bats to humans particularly easily, especially given that humans have little contact with live bats in the wild. However, if reproduced and artificially spread, it could easily become a pandemic due to its high contagiousness.

While researching it, a scientist in Wuhan is careless and catches the virus. He then goes out and transmits it. Exponential spread occurs (I know you love that term), and in not too long, it's a huge problem all over the world.

This would be a case where it did come from a lab, even if its origins were natural. I'm not saying that it happened this way, but it's laughable that you are acting that it's absurd to be talking about the lab.

Why is the WHO looking at the lab? They just love the cafeteria there?

But it would be a horrible weapon for anything beyond population control on their own populace?

As always, the conspiracy theorists are floating ideas and letting the stupid fill in the blanks incorrectly, which is how we end up with Q anon elected representatives. They’re obfuscating a lab error into a weapon released intentionally.

Intent matters a whole lot. A sizable portion of our populace is running around thinking this was a manufactured crisis released with the intent to take out millions across the world in order to alter our election, which is idiocy of the highest order.

[v12cl]

So you think it's either bioengineered from something benign, or it's innocent? You're making absolutely no sense.

Here's a hypothetical example:

Researchers find a virus in bats which would be perfect to use as a bioweapon, and decide to research reproducing it. While the virus could live in humans, it doesn't transmit from bats to humans particularly easily, especially given that humans have little contact with live bats in the wild. However, if reproduced and artificially spread, it could easily become a pandemic due to its high contagiousness.

While researching it, a scientist in Wuhan is careless and catches the virus. He then goes out and transmits it. Exponential spread occurs (I know you love that term), and in not too long, it's a huge problem all over the world.

This would be a case where it did come from a lab, even if its origins were natural. I'm not saying that it happened this way, but it's laughable that you are acting that it's absurd to be talking about the lab.

Why is the WHO looking at the lab? They just love the cafeteria there?

But it would be a horrible weapon for anything beyond population control on their own populace?

As always, the conspiracy theorists are floating ideas and letting the stupid fill in the blanks incorrectly, which is how we end up with Q anon elected representatives. They’re obfuscating a lab error into a weapon released intentionally.

Intent matters a whole lot. A sizable portion of our populace is running around thinking this was a manufactured crisis released with the intent to take out millions across the world in order to alter our election, which is idiocy of the highest order.

The chaos and panic of the last year was not coincidence.

Whether corona was intentionally released or not, it was used by governments to consolidate power.

No, it wasn't just the US election. Look at Hong Kong. Look at India. Look at France, Germany, UK, etc.

The story is the same everywhere.

The great reset is real. Agenda 21 is real.

Jumping right to Q to dismiss "conspiracy theories" is lazy.

[dwai]

But it would be a horrible weapon for anything beyond population control on their own populace?

As always, the conspiracy theorists are floating ideas and letting the stupid fill in the blanks incorrectly, which is how we end up with Q anon elected representatives. They’re obfuscating a lab error into a weapon released intentionally.

Intent matters a whole lot. A sizable portion of our populace is running around thinking this was a manufactured crisis released with the intent to take out millions across the world in order to alter our election, which is idiocy of the highest order.

The chaos and panic of the last year was not coincidence.

Whether corona was intentionally released or not, it was used by governments to consolidate power.

No, it wasn't just the US election. Look at Hong Kong. Look at India. Look at France, Germany, UK, etc.

The story is the same everywhere.

The great reset is real. Agenda 21 is real.

Jumping right to Q to dismiss "conspiracy theories" is lazy.

this is all they have now, they're trained to think of Q and gaslight everyone