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Thread: Unregulated, non-government, third-party companies are tracking your every move -- and it's legal

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Unregulated, non-government, third-party companies are tracking your every move -- and it's legal

    Pretty shocking-but-not-shocking report from the NY Times on the grim situation of "voluntary" smartphone surveillance:

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...ell-phone.html

    Cliffs: Those apps you give permission to use your location are often using a third party service to interpret the location data, and all of that data is stored. The NY Times was able to get a copy of this data file, and found enough data on 12 million smartphones (just a sliver of the overall data stored) to locate every single movement made by each phone owner.

    The NY Times used the data to fully track certain people and identify who they were -- something the companies doing it claim is impossible.

    Yet companies continue to claim that the data are anonymous. In marketing materials and at trade conferences, anonymity is a major selling point — key to allaying concerns over such invasive monitoring.

    To evaluate the companies’ claims, we turned most of our attention to identifying people in positions of power. With the help of publicly available information, like home addresses, we easily identified and then tracked scores of notables. We followed military officials with security clearances as they drove home at night. We tracked law enforcement officers as they took their kids to school. We watched high-powered lawyers (and their guests) as they traveled from private jets to vacation properties. We did not name any of the people we identified without their permission.

    Watching dots move across a map sometimes revealed hints of faltering marriages, evidence of drug addiction, records of visits to psychological facilities.



    Remember all of the panic during the 2000s and early 2010s regarding the Patriot Act and other government surveillance programs?

    Remember when I said that this was no big deal, and that our real danger comes from private companies which we voluntarily or semi-voluntarily allow into our lives?

    Well... yeah.

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Here are my tips on how to avoid being tracked (well, how to mostly avoid it):

    1) Do not give location permission to apps which don't really need your location. This is easier said than done, but take a moment to consider whether the app actually needs your location to function properly, or if lacking your location only is a minor inconvenience. For example, a fast food app might want your location so it can direct you to find the nearest store, but you can do without that. On the flip side, a mapping app cannot function without your location.

    2) Clear your advertising ID. This is what the apps partially use to identify you. Clearing it basically gives you an entirely new ID, which makes it more difficult (but not impossible) to identify you. Do this frequently. Here's how to do it.

    3) Gotta keep 'em separated! As tempting as it might be to login with Facebook or Google to various websites or apps, don't ever do this. Always create separate accounts on these apps. Also, use a different password on each one, even slightly. Simply appending a different number onto the end of each password is enough to prevent automated systems from breaking into other accounts of yours when a password hack occurs on a large system. And while this is a pain in the ass, you also might want to consider creating different e-mails for different apps which force you to both register and identify yourself.

    4) Turn off location services unless you need them. This may also be a pain in the ass, but think about it -- how often do you really use apps which absolutely need your location? You can simply turn it back on when you need it.

    5) Register under fake names whenever possible. Some apps require you to give a true and correct name -- such as ones where you're buying something. But short of that, always register under a phony name (even if it's just a modified version of your real name), and make sure it's not attached to an e-mail where you've given your real name to other apps or websites. For example, make a gmail account just for registering to apps where no name is required.

    6) Turn off location stamping on photos. This will only come back to bite you later.

    7) Never, ever "check in" places on social media, even if it's obvious where you are. Those check-ins can be scraped and use to create profiles of you, whereas pictures without such info are much harder for machines to determine where they were taken.

    8) Do not ever give permission to third-party sites or app to access your social media accounts, no matter how innocent it seems. You'll have to do without running stupid apps like, "If you were an animal, which one would you be?"

    9) Clear cookies often. This includes mobile devices.

    10) Opt out from as much as possible regarding anything tracking-related. Don't just take the attitude of, "I don't care if they have this info." You may care one day in the future, for reasons you're not even considering now.

    11) If possible, jailbreak your phone, get a location spoofer, and spoof your location on every app where your real one isn't necessary. In many cases, you can spoof an approximate location, such as on weather apps, where anywhere within 10 miles of your house is probably going to be roughly the same weather.

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    Gold SPIT this's Avatar
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    What if you don't give a shit?

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPIT this View Post
    What if you don't give a shit?
    That's what they're counting on.

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    Gold MrTickle's Avatar
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    Unfortunately we have all consented to this surveillance for far too long and it's now too late

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    Canadrunk limitles's Avatar
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    Obv. someone has hacked Druff's account. You're a Republican, you vote for this kind of thing.
    It's called profit at all costs. The fewer regulations the more profit.

    Whether you live in Russia or the U..S. the man is always out to get you one way or another

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by limitles View Post
    Obv. someone has hacked Druff's account. You're a Republican, you vote for this kind of thing.
    It's called profit at all costs. The fewer regulations the more profit.

    Whether you live in Russia or the U..S. the man is always out to get you one way or another
    Many Republicans don't like this at all.

    In fact, neither party likes it.

    Corrupt politicians on both sides accept big lobbying money from corporations so they look the other way involving shit like this, and thus the boat is not rocked.

    There's also just a general ignorance among politicians regarding technology, so they tend to have a hard time passing laws which are both needed and not too heavy handed.

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    Plutonium big dick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by limitles View Post
    Obv. someone has hacked Druff's account. You're a Republican, you vote for this kind of thing.
    It's called profit at all costs. The fewer regulations the more profit.

    Whether you live in Russia or the U..S. the man is always out to get you one way or another
    this idiot makes a good point

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    100% Organic MumblesBadly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big dick View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by limitles View Post
    Obv. someone has hacked Druff's account. You're a Republican, you vote for this kind of thing.
    It's called profit at all costs. The fewer regulations the more profit.

    Whether you live in Russia or the U..S. the man is always out to get you one way or another
    this idiot makes a good point
    In all fairness to Druff being a Republican, notice how he did NOT use this thread to rally support for a new law to help consumers avoid this data grab by companies. So, at least he is being politically consistent on this matter (even if he *is* still completely abandoning his law-and-order principles by not speaking out against the corrupt and power-abusing Trump administration and its feckless leader).

     
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      DJ_Chaps: beyond insufferable
    _____________________________________________
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I actually hope this [second impeachment] succeeds, because I want Trump put down politically like a sick, 14-year-old dog. ... I don't want him complicating the 2024 primary season. I just want him done.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Were Republicans cowardly or unethical not to go along with [convicting Trump in the second impeachment Senate trial]? No. The smart move was to reject it.

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    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    you know you can just not have a smartphone right?

    a lot of people dump them, often for this exact reason.

    the data economy literally runs the world right now, and a considerable portion of their resources go towards redefining boundaries on what constitutes the legal protections available for privacy and even more resources go towards juicing those boundaries for every conceivable byte they can gather.

    either exist in the real world by its rules, or have a nervous breakdown trying to cheat the system and live in the illusion of privacy, or log tf off.

    now if youll excuse me i have to weigh myself, im on a diet so i can look better jacking off for the fbi agents monitoring my webcam.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

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    Gold Forum Wars's Avatar
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    And we will likely continue to get the ad hominem comments in this thread continuing to flow against Druff, but I'll give the dude a clap instead of crap. Yes, I know we all "already knew this was going on" but did we? And do we know any of the precise mechanisms of it? I appreciate the fact that Druff has Zero.Zero advertisers to piss off and that he genuinely cares that this crap is going on and puts useful detailed info on how to curtail it. And Sonatine is right, ditch all internet connected devices if you really want to stay anonymous...

    As someone who "already knew this stuff was going on", LOL, I did learn about turning off "Opt out of Ads Personalization", so thanks for that tip especially Druff. If there was any doubt about how much info these (especially Google) have on you, just go to Google Now on your Android phone...not sure about how to do it on iOS, but on Android in most cases you just swipe LEFT right from the home screen. You will see a personalized news feed. It is ABSOLUTELY TERRIFYING how well Google curates news stories based on who it knows you are. I wonder if this will continue with the Opt out of Ads on...

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    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Wars View Post
    And we will likely continue to get the ad hominem comments in this thread continuing to flow against Druff, but I'll give the dude a clap instead of crap. Yes, I know we all "already knew this was going on" but did we? And do we know any of the precise mechanisms of it? I appreciate the fact that Druff has Zero.Zero advertisers to piss off and that he genuinely cares that this crap is going on and puts useful detailed info on how to curtail it. And Sonatine is right, ditch all internet connected devices if you really want to stay anonymous...

    As someone who "already knew this stuff was going on", LOL, I did learn about turning off "Opt out of Ads Personalization", so thanks for that tip especially Druff. If there was any doubt about how much info these (especially Google) have on you, just go to Google Now on your Android phone...not sure about how to do it on iOS, but on Android in most cases you just swipe LEFT right from the home screen. You will see a personalized news feed. It is ABSOLUTELY TERRIFYING how well Google curates news stories based on who it knows you are. I wonder if this will continue with the Opt out of Ads on...

    the only part of this ecosystem that really gets under my skin is the lack of public discourse about its infrastructure.

    a friend looked up boxing speedbag videos on his iwatch and by the time he tabbed to facebook on his laptop seconds later, he was getting targetted ads for speedbags.

    so either all these corps are in each others pockets and sharing data, or there is a third party broker acting as a proxy for this transaction.

    and i havent heard a fucking peep about any of it, and thats blowing my mind.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

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    Nova Scotia's #1 Party Rocker!!!!11 DJ_Chaps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MumblesBadly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by big dick View Post
    this idiot makes a good point
    In all fairness to Druff being a Republican, notice how he did NOT use this thread to rally support for a new law to help consumers avoid this data grab by companies. So, at least he is being politically consistent on this matter (even if he *is* still completely abandoning his law-and-order principles by not speaking out against the corrupt and power-abusing Trump administration and its feckless leader).

    WHAT THE SWEET FUCK DOES THIS THREAD HAVE TO DO WITH TRUMP AND YOUR DERANGEMENT SYNDROME? NOT SURE WHO YOU ARE MORE OBSESSED WITH, TRUMP OR TODD.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Chaps' 2017-18 NFL $$ Thread

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    Plutonium sonatine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ_Chaps View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MumblesBadly View Post

    In all fairness to Druff being a Republican, notice how he did NOT use this thread to rally support for a new law to help consumers avoid this data grab by companies. So, at least he is being politically consistent on this matter (even if he *is* still completely abandoning his law-and-order principles by not speaking out against the corrupt and power-abusing Trump administration and its feckless leader).

    WHAT THE SWEET FUCK DOES THIS THREAD HAVE TO DO WITH TRUMP AND YOUR DERANGEMENT SYNDROME? NOT SURE WHO YOU ARE MORE OBSESSED WITH, TRUMP OR TODD.

    why do you feed him attention?
    Last edited by sonatine; 12-20-2019 at 07:49 PM.
    "Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

    "America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    I feel that too many people here dismiss this as no big revelation, because this is a tech savvier group than the average citizen.

    However, this is to a much greater extent than even I was aware of. Yes, I have been aware for many years that apps intrusively collected data, but I didn't know that location data was collected via these SDKs and stored into various massive combined databases. I'm not saying I thought that was impossible or unlikely, but I didn't know it was actually happening. I guess I had neglected to think about the fact that apps don't usually perform their own location checking, but instead rely upon these third party SDKs to do it for them.

    From there, it's pretty obvious. Regardless of the companies' claims that the data is "anonymous", as the NY Times demonstrated, it's incredibly easy to deduce the identity of almost everyone whose location data was collected, because you have their home address plus their work address. That combo alone can identify a large percentage of them with very little effort (and in automated fashion, which the Times didn't point out!)

    As the article did point out, this data can be used for very intrusive purposes beyond just targeted advertising. It could be used for stalking, blackmail, identification of whistleblowers or anonymous sources, etc. It could also be used to learn more about people and cast judgment upon them. For example, the article identified a prostitute in that way. Such data could also be used to force people out of the closet -- or blackmail them based upon that discovery.

    The possibilities are endless.

    Location data storage should absolutely be illegal, even with the user's consent. It should be allowed to be collected (with the user's permission), but not stored anywhere. There can be exceptions where the user is voluntarily sharing his location with the public (such as check-ins on Facebook) or stored within an app, permission, for a utilitarian purpose, such as a jogging monitor.

    The current wild, wild west situation is not acceptable.

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    Diamond Pro Zap_the_Fractions_Giraffe's Avatar
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    my computer is faster than sonatine's

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    100% Organic MumblesBadly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I feel that too many people here dismiss this as no big revelation, because this is a tech savvier group than the average citizen.

    However, this is to a much greater extent than even I was aware of. Yes, I have been aware for many years that apps intrusively collected data, but I didn't know that location data was collected via these SDKs and stored into various massive combined databases. I'm not saying I thought that was impossible or unlikely, but I didn't know it was actually happening. I guess I had neglected to think about the fact that apps don't usually perform their own location checking, but instead rely upon these third party SDKs to do it for them.

    From there, it's pretty obvious. Regardless of the companies' claims that the data is "anonymous", as the NY Times demonstrated, it's incredibly easy to deduce the identity of almost everyone whose location data was collected, because you have their home address plus their work address. That combo alone can identify a large percentage of them with very little effort (and in automated fashion, which the Times didn't point out!)

    As the article did point out, this data can be used for very intrusive purposes beyond just targeted advertising. It could be used for stalking, blackmail, identification of whistleblowers or anonymous sources, etc. It could also be used to learn more about people and cast judgment upon them. For example, the article identified a prostitute in that way. Such data could also be used to force people out of the closet -- or blackmail them based upon that discovery.

    The possibilities are endless.

    Location data storage should absolutely be illegal, even with the user's consent. It should be allowed to be collected (with the user's permission), but not stored anywhere. There can be exceptions where the user is voluntarily sharing his location with the public (such as check-ins on Facebook) or stored within an app, permission, for a utilitarian purpose, such as a jogging monitor.

    The current wild, wild west situation is not acceptable.
    So, do you have any suggestions for new laws to be put in place to combat this? Or for people to simply be aware of this and trust “free market” solutions to pop up and quell any significant threat to loss of privacy once the consumers become better informed?
    _____________________________________________
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I actually hope this [second impeachment] succeeds, because I want Trump put down politically like a sick, 14-year-old dog. ... I don't want him complicating the 2024 primary season. I just want him done.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Were Republicans cowardly or unethical not to go along with [convicting Trump in the second impeachment Senate trial]? No. The smart move was to reject it.

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    Gold Starbucks Spunk Bucket's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Dan Druff;872242]

    2) Clear your advertising ID. This is what the apps partially use to identify you. Clearing it basically gives you an entirely new ID, which makes it more difficult (but not impossible) to identify you. Do this frequently. Here's how to do it.

    iOS 14 doesn’t have this capability as far as I can see, those bastards!!!
    BALLIN'!!

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    Diamond TheXFactor's Avatar
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    And they sell the location data to government agencies.

    When government agencies can't get cellphone location data from Google, they pay companies that accumulate location data from third-party apps.



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