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Thread: The SAT will soon be ignored in California public colleges because it's "racist"

  1. #21
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayjami View Post
    As someone who taught junior college for 10 years, many entry level students lack basic writing and critical thinking skills. The SAT is an ineffective tool to measure these abilities.
    Okay?

    I never said that the SAT should be the only determining factor for college admissions.

    I was making the case that the absence of any standardized test is a huge mistake. It's an even bigger mistake if this absence has been mandated for reasons of "combating racism", rather than for practical reasons regarding its usefulness.

    From some informal nosiness I engaged in regarding people's SAT scores in my high school in the late '80s, I found that the test was pretty useful at defining student types.

    Take the student with high grades & a high SAT score. That's obviously someone who is very likely to succeed in college.

    Take the student with mediocre grades & a high SAT score. That's a student who likely possesses the raw intelligence to succeed in college, but probably has questionable work habits -- an underachiever. Schools might want to take a chance on someone like this, especially because kids can mature and improve their work habits.

    Take the student with high grades & a mediocre SAT score. That's a student who probably possesses great work habits, but might be closer to average intelligence. This student will try hard and probably do decently in college, but also might become overwhelmed by the more challenging courses and majors. Schools will probably accept some students like these, but might want to pass on them if space is at a premium.

    Take the student with mediocre grades & a mediocre SAT score. This is a student who is probably very average in all ways, and won't fare well in a competitive college environment. Many schools will probably reject most of these students.

    Now, let's throw out the SAT and look at this again.

    How do they differentiate between the high grades/high SAT student and the one with the high grades & mediocre SAT? They can't. It becomes tough to differentiate between students with high grades, and it becomes even tougher when these grades are from different schools with wide variance in academic standards. How do you figure out who to admit if space is tight?

    And what of the students with mediocre grades? What to do with them? Reject them all? Wouldn't it be nice to see if, among those students who didn't do great in high school, there are any highly intelligent diamonds in the rough who could be worth admitting?

    I am very surprised that schools want to take away this important evaluational tool.

     
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      Sanlmar: Kid gets it

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by GrenadaRoger View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tellafriend View Post

    That’s called trade school.
    trade school is for those who can't / won't develop into 4 year school material; trade schools develop vocational skills such are welding, plumbing, bookkeeping, poker playing...its where you go if you can't / would rather not do 4 year college

    JUCO's are a proving/development ground that are free of distractions caused by students required by law to attend--public middle and high schools are filled with those space takers--( and I am for lowering the required age for attending school &minimum working age from 18/16 down to 14: in other words, get the donkeys out of the public schools and working like the animals they chose to act like )

    This is what high school was for.

  3. #23
    Cali state schools.

    Couple facts to consider:
    There are too many colleges
    A growing percentage are in financial trouble

    How do we differentiate? As always, we endeavor to appear selective or grow MORE selective.

    There is a modern twist at play now that fascinated me. Kid is online perusing schools. I want to collect his data. I want him to request the glossy brochures. Above all else, my goal is to lure that warm body into applying.

    So that I can reject him/her/it. Looky there... I just got more selective. I am massaging my numbers artfully.

    It’s like the old saying “I want to hire you so I can fire you”


    Anyway, you have the California Public schools becoming less selective. One less hurdle. I guess it’s either UC or prison. Public service. The wackiest of the 50 states. Not close
    Last edited by Sanlmar; 11-27-2019 at 10:15 AM.

  4. #24
    Gold Jayjami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayjami View Post
    As someone who taught junior college for 10 years, many entry level students lack basic writing and critical thinking skills. The SAT is an ineffective tool to measure these abilities.
    Okay?

    I never said that the SAT should be the only determining factor for college admissions.

    I was making the case that the absence of any standardized test is a huge mistake. It's an even bigger mistake if this absence has been mandated for reasons of "combating racism", rather than for practical reasons regarding its usefulness.

    From some informal nosiness I engaged in regarding people's SAT scores in my high school in the late '80s, I found that the test was pretty useful at defining student types.

    Take the student with high grades & a high SAT score. That's obviously someone who is very likely to succeed in college.

    Take the student with mediocre grades & a high SAT score. That's a student who likely possesses the raw intelligence to succeed in college, but probably has questionable work habits -- an underachiever. Schools might want to take a chance on someone like this, especially because kids can mature and improve their work habits.

    Take the student with high grades & a mediocre SAT score. That's a student who probably possesses great work habits, but might be closer to average intelligence. This student will try hard and probably do decently in college, but also might become overwhelmed by the more challenging courses and majors. Schools will probably accept some students like these, but might want to pass on them if space is at a premium.

    Take the student with mediocre grades & a mediocre SAT score. This is a student who is probably very average in all ways, and won't fare well in a competitive college environment. Many schools will probably reject most of these students.

    Now, let's throw out the SAT and look at this again.

    How do they differentiate between the high grades/high SAT student and the one with the high grades & mediocre SAT? They can't. It becomes tough to differentiate between students with high grades, and it becomes even tougher when these grades are from different schools with wide variance in academic standards. How do you figure out who to admit if space is tight?

    And what of the students with mediocre grades? What to do with them? Reject them all? Wouldn't it be nice to see if, among those students who didn't do great in high school, there are any highly intelligent diamonds in the rough who could be worth admitting?

    I am very surprised that schools want to take away this important evaluational tool.
    Not against standardized testing, just saying the SAT is a poor evaluation tool in many cases.

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  6. #26
    Diamond mulva's Avatar
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    in other news lori loughlin gets 2 months jail, her hubby gets 6 months..

    their lawyers had to of been shitty

    usc, g-town and other schools get no penalty.......and macy's daughter is going to vassar instead of g-town.

    duke paid for zion and unc gives out fake grades .

    college, college sports and the admisson side of things are complete faggot
    Quote Originally Posted by bottomset_69 View Post
    Johnny Manziel will be the 1st pick in the draft. I truly believe not only will Johnny Manziel be rookie of the year, quite possibly he will be MVP as his style will shock defensive coordinators. Manziel may only be 6 feet tall, but he has size 15 feet. And he has HUGE hands. I know some NFL scouts so I know what I am talking about.



  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by mulva View Post
    in other news lori loughlin gets 2 months jail, her hubby gets 6 months..

    their lawyers had to of been shitty

    usc, g-town and other schools get no penalty.......and macy's daughter is going to vassar instead of g-town.

    duke paid for zion and unc gives out fake grades .

    college, college sports and the admisson side of things are complete faggot
    Yeah as I said earlier in the thread, this scandal should prove that SAT scores can't be bought. Instead they just eliminate them, so now the Lori Loughlins of the world can just send their kid to a school which inflates grades.

    Good times.

  8. #28
    Husband gets 5 months how is he not just beating the shit out of his old wife and ungrateful kids 11 hours aday

  9. #29
    It's not like this greaseball Italian guy can join the white power prison gang in case that gets out what is he gonna pretend to be Mexican for 3 months this should be a reality show

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mulva View Post
    in other news lori loughlin gets 2 months jail, her hubby gets 6 months..

    their lawyers had to of been shitty

    usc, g-town and other schools get no penalty.......and macy's daughter is going to vassar instead of g-town.

    duke paid for zion and unc gives out fake grades .

    college, college sports and the admisson side of things are complete faggot
    Yeah as I said earlier in the thread, this scandal should prove that SAT scores can't be bought. Instead they just eliminate them, so now the Lori Loughlins of the world can just send their kid to a school which inflates grades.

    Good times.
    But SAT scores can be bought? Have you listened to "gangster capitalism" podcast about the scandal? they were paying for proctors to basically take the test for the kid, without them really even knowing. and also making up bullshit sports backgrounds like the rowing story, like the bitch from full house did with their daughter.

  11. #31
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwai View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post

    Yeah as I said earlier in the thread, this scandal should prove that SAT scores can't be bought. Instead they just eliminate them, so now the Lori Loughlins of the world can just send their kid to a school which inflates grades.

    Good times.
    But SAT scores can be bought? Have you listened to "gangster capitalism" podcast about the scandal? they were paying for proctors to basically take the test for the kid, without them really even knowing. and also making up bullshit sports backgrounds like the rowing story, like the bitch from full house did with their daughter.
    This was a tiny percentage of all SAT tests taken. The system isn't perfect, but scrapping the entire test is bullshit. Grades can be bought, too. Should we scrap grades and just do college admissions by random draw?

    Besides, after the high profile crackdown of these bribery and cheating scandals, I think parents are much less likely to do this shit again.

    If they wanted to replace the SAT with a "better" standardized test, that would be fine. However, to have no standardized test is a disaster, for reasons already stated in the OP.

    Besides, California isn't killing the test because of these rare cheating scandals. They are killing the test because it's "racist" (lol).

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dwai View Post

    But SAT scores can be bought? Have you listened to "gangster capitalism" podcast about the scandal? they were paying for proctors to basically take the test for the kid, without them really even knowing. and also making up bullshit sports backgrounds like the rowing story, like the bitch from full house did with their daughter.
    This was a tiny percentage of all SAT tests taken. The system isn't perfect, but scrapping the entire test is bullshit. Grades can be bought, too. Should we scrap grades and just do college admissions by random draw?

    Besides, after the high profile crackdown of these bribery and cheating scandals, I think parents are much less likely to do this shit again.

    If they wanted to replace the SAT with a "better" standardized test, that would be fine. However, to have no standardized test is a disaster, for reasons already stated in the OP.

    Besides, California isn't killing the test because of these rare cheating scandals. They are killing the test because it's "racist" (lol).
    lol, are you surprised by anything California does anymore though?

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by mulva View Post
    in other news lori loughlin gets 2 months jail, her hubby gets 6 months..

    their lawyers had to of been shitty


    usc, g-town and other schools get no penalty.......and macy's daughter is going to vassar instead of g-town.

    duke paid for zion and unc gives out fake grades .

    college, college sports and the admisson side of things are complete faggot
    My understanding is what really happened is they were entrapped into breaking worse laws than everyone else. There is lots of ways to go about bribing colleges to get your kids in. But they had the misfortune of working with a middle man who was an FBI informant, so of course he "advised" them to take an approach that broke more serious laws than everyone else.
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  14. #34
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwai View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post

    This was a tiny percentage of all SAT tests taken. The system isn't perfect, but scrapping the entire test is bullshit. Grades can be bought, too. Should we scrap grades and just do college admissions by random draw?

    Besides, after the high profile crackdown of these bribery and cheating scandals, I think parents are much less likely to do this shit again.

    If they wanted to replace the SAT with a "better" standardized test, that would be fine. However, to have no standardized test is a disaster, for reasons already stated in the OP.

    Besides, California isn't killing the test because of these rare cheating scandals. They are killing the test because it's "racist" (lol).
    lol, are you surprised by anything California does anymore though?
    The short answer is NO.

    The Assembly is overwhelmingly Democratic, and the governor is a liberal Democrat who doesn't keep them in check, and then has his own crazy ideas.

    The last form of resistance we had against the insanity ironically was former (liberal) Jerry Brown, who at least was his own man and didn't give a shit about what his party wanted. He did what he thought was right, which sometimes ran counter to what the Democratic Party wanted. I more disagreed with him than agreed with him, but at least he had his own mind and wasn't knee-jerk left-wing on everything. I never thought I'd say that I miss Jerry Brown, but I miss Jerry Brown.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by verminaard View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mulva View Post
    in other news lori loughlin gets 2 months jail, her hubby gets 6 months..

    their lawyers had to of been shitty


    usc, g-town and other schools get no penalty.......and macy's daughter is going to vassar instead of g-town.

    duke paid for zion and unc gives out fake grades .

    college, college sports and the admisson side of things are complete faggot
    My understanding is what really happened is they were entrapped into breaking worse laws than everyone else. There is lots of ways to go about bribing colleges to get your kids in. But they had the misfortune of working with a middle man who was an FBI informant, so of course he "advised" them to take an approach that broke more serious laws than everyone else.
    Them going to jail at all is fucking retarded.
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    I'd say good luck in the freeroll but I'm pretty sure you'll go on a bender to self-sabotage yourself & miss it completely or use it as the excuse of why you didn't cash.

  16. #36
    It will definitely be interesting to see how this plays out. If suddenly Berkely triples its black and Hispanic acceptances at the expense of Asian kids could be some interesting blowback.
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  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by verminaard View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mulva View Post
    in other news lori loughlin gets 2 months jail, her hubby gets 6 months..

    their lawyers had to of been shitty


    usc, g-town and other schools get no penalty.......and macy's daughter is going to vassar instead of g-town.

    duke paid for zion and unc gives out fake grades .

    college, college sports and the admisson side of things are complete faggot
    My understanding is what really happened is they were entrapped into breaking worse laws than everyone else. There is lots of ways to go about bribing colleges to get your kids in. But they had the misfortune of working with a middle man who was an FBI informant, so of course he "advised" them to take an approach that broke more serious laws than everyone else.
    maybe they agreed to plead guilty so they can do the time in their own home with an ankle bracelet because of the pandemic.

    that would make sense
    Quote Originally Posted by bottomset_69 View Post
    Johnny Manziel will be the 1st pick in the draft. I truly believe not only will Johnny Manziel be rookie of the year, quite possibly he will be MVP as his style will shock defensive coordinators. Manziel may only be 6 feet tall, but he has size 15 feet. And he has HUGE hands. I know some NFL scouts so I know what I am talking about.



  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by verminaard View Post
    It will definitely be interesting to see how this plays out. If suddenly Berkely triples its black and Hispanic acceptances at the expense of Asian kids could be some interesting blowback.
    When the info came out about what Harvard was doing, it turned out that only Asian American applicants were being discriminated against.

    There was a study about what the acceptance rates would have been without race being taken into account, and what they actually were.

    With the race-based policies, there were a huge number of additional acceptances of blacks, Hispanics, and Native Americans, and a huge number of Asian Americans who were not accepted despite being more qualified than the average student accepted. However, whites were pretty much unaffected. When it was all said and done, the average white applicant was about as qualified as the average overall applicant. It was the Asians who were way overqualified as a group, so they got the shaft big time.

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