VICE writer gets scammed on Airbnb, discovers it's a major operation spanning several cities, gets ignored by Airbnb support, writes about it, FBI gets involved

[Dan Druff]

LOL at blaming this on "San Francisco" Like who exactly? the people of SF? The Mayor?
This didn't even happen in SF, but "they" (I say they, but I have no idea who he talking about)
are supposed to be on top of every landlord scam?

Someones needs to get Druff away from Fox "news". He brings his politics into every story.
His tin foil MAGA hat is taking over his life, he has obviously lost something on his fastball over the Trump era.
Now he seeing Nancy Pelosi in his sleep, apparently.

What a shady/incompetent piece of shit company. Makes me actually support the attempts by cities like San Francisco to highly regulate them. You let these tech behemoths run amok and self-regulate, this is the shit you get.

Um, Jimmy, I was actually supporting San Francisco here. I was saying that they're correct in attempting to regulate Airbnb.

[Dan Druff]

There's a massive campaign war going on in Jersey City right now over the election next week where some Short Term Rental Regulations are on the ballot. Over $5 million ($33 per registered voter) has been spent in total by Air BnB and some Hotel related company trying to persuade everyone to vote one way or the other. Tons of bulky glossy fliers every day in the mail, pretty much every other commercial is telling you to "Vote Yes (or No) on Question #1", can't get on the subway without being approached by someone asking you if you were aware of the vote, it's nuts.

Check out this blog from last month (the blog exists to convince people to vote Yes to regulations)
https://jerseycityairbnb.com/airbnb-...-fire-victims/

The author figured out that a twitter account @jennycity was actually Arun Goel (the guy mentioned in the Vice article) and he had over 80 properties in Jersey city. He was using the twitter account to subtly make pro AirBnB statements.

Interesting, but maybe a different guy. Probably related though. Shyam Goel is the guy in the Vice article. But otherwise there are so many similarities, I'm guessing they have to be either related or the same person. The only reason I think it might be a relative is because Arun has up a realistic looking profile pic for himself, and Shyam has always been honest with his own pic on his actual profiles. I bet Arun is his brother or something, pulling the same scam in Jersey.

[sonatine]

https://www.wired.com/story/how-airb...-law-imploded/

beyond which, they have now committed to 'verifying' every property they rent to crack down on bait and switch / problem renters.

things are not going great for airbnb.

[Daly]

CEO was all over CNBC Europe (I’m sure it’s the same USA feed) today and covered a lot of the issues.


It’s all a big misunderstanding.



All jokes aside his comments were impressive. He seems to get the issues and I think this has probably scared him into spending some capital and some growth for long term viability, or that’s the impression I got.

[Dan Druff]

The business model of Airbnb is flawed in some ways, and there's no easy fix.

Scammers can take advantage of the model because of the entire "he said / she said" situation surrounding each rental.

Problem guests can falsely claim the property was substandard or maintenance issues weren't fixed, and attempt to get undeserved refunds. Problem landlords can falsify damage they claim the guests perpetrated, and also can do this bait-and-switch routine by claiming that the property the guest purchased has "maintenance issues".

Even if they stop the bait-and-switch thing, they still have a major issue involving figuring out whether the guest or the landlord is at fault in each complaint situation.
This is especially difficult when the guest complains first, and then the landlord responds with their own complaints. That's what has led them to simply outsource customer support, with instructions to lean toward a King Solomon "partial refund" solution to every problem. This, again, allows scammers to prosper.

There isn't an easy fix to this, because indeed people renting houses or other multi-room properties are more likely to have parties and/or cause damage than hotel renters, and landlords participating in something like Airbnb are often shady themselves.

Note that the landlord/tenant disputes go back hundreds of years, but that's why we have courts of law to deal with these situations, and with Airbnb these complaints are adjudicated by third world monkeys with a script in front of them.

It's important to note that regulations for industries like taxis and hotels came to be for a reason, and nowdays we have so-called tech geniuses who think they're smarter than generations before them, and we can simply throw all that out the window and save everyone money. Turns out it doesn't always work that way.

[sonatine]

The business model of Airbnb is flawed in some ways, and there's no easy fix.

Scammers can take advantage of the model because of the entire "he said / she said" situation surrounding each rental.

Problem guests can falsely claim the property was substandard or maintenance issues weren't fixed, and attempt to get undeserved refunds. Problem landlords can falsify damage they claim the guests perpetrated, and also can do this bait-and-switch routine by claiming that the property the guest purchased has "maintenance issues".

Even if they stop the bait-and-switch thing, they still have a major issue involving figuring out whether the guest or the landlord is at fault in each complaint situation.
This is especially difficult when the guest complains first, and then the landlord responds with their own complaints. That's what has led them to simply outsource customer support, with instructions to lean toward a King Solomon "partial refund" solution to every problem. This, again, allows scammers to prosper.

There isn't an easy fix to this, because indeed people renting houses or other multi-room properties are more likely to have parties and/or cause damage than hotel renters, and landlords participating in something like Airbnb are often shady themselves.

Note that the landlord/tenant disputes go back hundreds of years, but that's why we have courts of law to deal with these situations, and with Airbnb these complaints are adjudicated by third world monkeys with a script in front of them.

It's important to note that regulations for industries like taxis and hotels came to be for a reason, and nowdays we have so-called tech geniuses who think they're smarter than generations before them, and we can simply throw all that out the window and save everyone money. Turns out it doesn't always work that way.

people made the same complaints about ebay, basically. eventually ebay adopted a ratings system and most transactions by a huge margin are looked upon favorably by both parties.

airbnb has exactly one real potential problem; regulation. the customer service stuff is just growing pains. but the 'short term rental' bans are a fucking silver dagger through the heart of their business model.

i expect things wont go too badly for them on that front because i literally dont know anyone who uses hotels anymore, everyone airbnbs. we've all seen stupider things happen but the risk that the government would get involved in a broader sense seems fadeable.

[lol wow]

lets simmer it down there male menopause

[Dan Druff]

The business model of Airbnb is flawed in some ways, and there's no easy fix.

Scammers can take advantage of the model because of the entire "he said / she said" situation surrounding each rental.

Problem guests can falsely claim the property was substandard or maintenance issues weren't fixed, and attempt to get undeserved refunds. Problem landlords can falsify damage they claim the guests perpetrated, and also can do this bait-and-switch routine by claiming that the property the guest purchased has "maintenance issues".

Even if they stop the bait-and-switch thing, they still have a major issue involving figuring out whether the guest or the landlord is at fault in each complaint situation.
This is especially difficult when the guest complains first, and then the landlord responds with their own complaints. That's what has led them to simply outsource customer support, with instructions to lean toward a King Solomon "partial refund" solution to every problem. This, again, allows scammers to prosper.

There isn't an easy fix to this, because indeed people renting houses or other multi-room properties are more likely to have parties and/or cause damage than hotel renters, and landlords participating in something like Airbnb are often shady themselves.

Note that the landlord/tenant disputes go back hundreds of years, but that's why we have courts of law to deal with these situations, and with Airbnb these complaints are adjudicated by third world monkeys with a script in front of them.

It's important to note that regulations for industries like taxis and hotels came to be for a reason, and nowdays we have so-called tech geniuses who think they're smarter than generations before them, and we can simply throw all that out the window and save everyone money. Turns out it doesn't always work that way.

people made the same complaints about ebay, basically. eventually ebay adopted a ratings system and most transactions by a huge margin are looked upon favorably by both parties.

airbnb has exactly one real potential problem; regulation. the customer service stuff is just growing pains. but the 'short term rental' bans are a fucking silver dagger through the heart of their business model.

i expect things wont go too badly for them on that front because i literally dont know anyone who uses hotels anymore, everyone airbnbs. we've all seen stupider things happen but the risk that the government would get involved in a broader sense seems fadeable.

True, but eBay is a simpler matter, because it involves one item per transaction.

The item was either received or it wasn't received. The item was either as-described or not as-described.

Sure, they have to resolve disputes, but it's relatively simple compared to the complex world of short-term rentals.

I guess we will see what happens.

[monsterj]

The business model of Airbnb is flawed in some ways, and there's no easy fix.

Scammers can take advantage of the model because of the entire "he said / she said" situation surrounding each rental.

Problem guests can falsely claim the property was substandard or maintenance issues weren't fixed, and attempt to get undeserved refunds. Problem landlords can falsify damage they claim the guests perpetrated, and also can do this bait-and-switch routine by claiming that the property the guest purchased has "maintenance issues".

Even if they stop the bait-and-switch thing, they still have a major issue involving figuring out whether the guest or the landlord is at fault in each complaint situation.
This is especially difficult when the guest complains first, and then the landlord responds with their own complaints. That's what has led them to simply outsource customer support, with instructions to lean toward a King Solomon "partial refund" solution to every problem. This, again, allows scammers to prosper.

There isn't an easy fix to this, because indeed people renting houses or other multi-room properties are more likely to have parties and/or cause damage than hotel renters, and landlords participating in something like Airbnb are often shady themselves.

Note that the landlord/tenant disputes go back hundreds of years, but that's why we have courts of law to deal with these situations, and with Airbnb these complaints are adjudicated by third world monkeys with a script in front of them.

It's important to note that regulations for industries like taxis and hotels came to be for a reason, and nowdays we have so-called tech geniuses who think they're smarter than generations before them, and we can simply throw all that out the window and save everyone money. Turns out it doesn't always work that way.

people made the same complaints about ebay, basically. eventually ebay adopted a ratings system and most transactions by a huge margin are looked upon favorably by both parties.

airbnb has exactly one real potential problem; regulation. the customer service stuff is just growing pains. but the 'short term rental' bans are a fucking silver dagger through the heart of their business model.

i expect things wont go too badly for them on that front because i literally dont know anyone who uses hotels anymore, everyone airbnbs. we've all seen stupider things happen but the risk that the government would get involved in a broader sense seems fadeable.

I was on AirBnB when it actually meant Airbed and Breakfast. The whole thing kinda sucks now, tbh, especially in Europe. I will only stay at Hotels now after 2 AirBnbs in a row with incredibly inconvenient check in procedures leaving me stranded for several hours waiting for "owners"(now just agents) to come fix the issue.

If I want a large place, I'll go with VRBO.

[lol wow]

vrbos great but airbnb when ur in hawaii is way better than staying at those shitty waikiki hotels that were built in the 70s

[Krypt]

its called the ritz carlton residences fkn dork

[FR1GHT]

people made the same complaints about ebay, basically. eventually ebay adopted a ratings system and most transactions by a huge margin are looked upon favorably by both parties.

airbnb has exactly one real potential problem; regulation. the customer service stuff is just growing pains. but the 'short term rental' bans are a fucking silver dagger through the heart of their business model.

i expect things wont go too badly for them on that front because i literally dont know anyone who uses hotels anymore, everyone airbnbs. we've all seen stupider things happen but the risk that the government would get involved in a broader sense seems fadeable.

True, but eBay is a simpler matter, because it involves one item per transaction.

The item was either received or it wasn't received. The item was either as-described or not as-described.

Sure, they have to resolve disputes, but it's relatively simple compared to the complex world of short-term rentals.

I guess we will see what happens.

The unit was either available or it wasn't.

The unit was either as-described or not as-described.

[sonatine]

people made the same complaints about ebay, basically. eventually ebay adopted a ratings system and most transactions by a huge margin are looked upon favorably by both parties.

airbnb has exactly one real potential problem; regulation. the customer service stuff is just growing pains. but the 'short term rental' bans are a fucking silver dagger through the heart of their business model.

i expect things wont go too badly for them on that front because i literally dont know anyone who uses hotels anymore, everyone airbnbs. we've all seen stupider things happen but the risk that the government would get involved in a broader sense seems fadeable.

I was on AirBnB when it actually meant Airbed and Breakfast. The whole thing kinda sucks now, tbh, especially in Europe. I will only stay at Hotels now after 2 AirBnbs in a row with incredibly inconvenient check in procedures leaving me stranded for several hours waiting for "owners"(now just agents) to come fix the issue.

If I want a large place, I'll go with VRBO.

ive never used one but im considering building out a lux detached residence and basically going toe to toe with chateau marmont for the coveted wealthy drug addict screenwriter market. so im doing a lot of homework.

but yeah honestly your point resonates. if it doesnt have keyless entry and infinite 5 star reviews, id fuck with a hotel in a heartbeat. but that said, im considering a relocation soon and was eyeing airbnb as long term rental solution, eg 1-3 months, and its hard to beat the monthly rates im seeing.

[lol wow]

tine is literally planning to squat at an airbnb

[duped_samaritan]

This is what AirBnB got for their $5m campaign budget: