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Thread: Here's my solution to ending the "Voter ID" controversy

  1. #21
    Gold SPIT this's Avatar
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    So I gotta go to the DMV again before I can vote?

  2. #22
    Gold gauchojake's Avatar
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    I just heard from my local Congressman. He agrees with Druff and is going to take this thread to the floor to vote on. Great job solving this very delicate national issue Todd. God bless America.

     
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      MumblesBadly: LOL!

  3. #23
    Silver JohnCommode's Avatar
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    While I don't doubt that Druff's motives for this proposal are completely honorable, I am completely sure that the motives of the Republican Party for their myriad of proposals that add obstacles to voting are completely dishonorable.

    Once Republicans realized that demographic changes in the electorate would gradually hinder them in future elections, they had only two options:
    1) Reverse many of their policies that were successfully designed to take away the South from the Democrats and basically began with the Goldwater presidential candidacy in 1964 and try to win a reasonable number of minority votes with these policy reversals.
    or
    2) Create roadblocks to minority voting. This is exactly what they chose to do.

    The U.S. has survived and prospered with presidential elections that are generally conducted with voluntary compliance. I see no need for Druff's more Orwellian plan.

    If you want to make presidential elections less susceptible to manipulation by small numbers of illegal voters, abolish the electoral college. I don't think that we need to do this, but it sounds better than mass fingerprinting.

     
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      MumblesBadly: :this

  4. #24
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    "Mass fingerprinting" has gone on in California for decades with zero issue. Think of how many privacy-obsessed civil liberties groups are based in California, yet I have never heard of any of them raising an objection.

    That shows what a non-issue this is.

    Regardless of whether or not you support the fingerprinting, you're kidding yourself if you think an election system with zero security isn't vulnerable to tampering.

    Remember the 2000 Presidential election, which was ultimately decided by 500 or so votes? How about the 1960 Presidential election which clearly had ballot box stuffing and bogus registrations, which likely awarded the victory to the wrong candidate?

    That's 2 Presidential elections out of the past 15 where bogus votes could have been (or were) a big issue. Is that not enough for you?

    How many people do you think are truly disenfranchised -- people who CAN'T get ID without a tremendous amount of hassle or expense? That number has to be miniscule. It's a non-problem. You don't toss away the security of an election for this tiny, tiny minority.

    I don't believe Democrats want this reformed, no matter what the solution.. They know a certain percentage of their constituency simply will not go get an ID, even if it's easy and free. They don't want to lose those votes. That's the bottom line. You're fooling yourself if you think otherwise, just as you'd be fooling yourself if you think that Republicans aren't happy that people without ID are staying home.

    It's also absolutely impossible to know the scope of this type of voter fraud, since there is no accurate way to study this.

  5. #25
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPIT this View Post
    So I gotta go to the DMV again before I can vote?
    You don't have a license?

    Sad!

  6. #26
    Platinum GrenadaRoger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrenchjockey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Muck Ficon View Post


    Read the first sentence in the link....it says "Is there a state that doesn't require fingerprints in order to get a concealed carry license".

    I've stumbled across this enlightening flowchart for how to deal with this situation, Muck.

    Name:  
Views: 
Size:

    That should clear it up for everyone.
    Thank you very much!!!

    Its extremely valuable to have Druff available to us; as the flowchart shows, he is right about everything all the time
    (long before there was a PFA i had my Grenade & Crossbones avatar at DD)

  7. #27
    Bronze Buck Nasty's Avatar
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    Druff, you are only proposing fingerprints because you know it will cause a lot of democratic voters to not show up out of fear of being arrested.

    This is genius.

  8. #28
    Platinum nunbeater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    A lot of dumb responses in this thread.
    .
    well you have been posting a lot of dumb shit lately

     
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      Hockey Guy: lol
      
      Muck Ficon: :this
      
      SPIT this: oof

  9. #29
    Silver JohnCommode's Avatar
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    "How many people do you think are truly disenfranchised -- people who CAN'T get ID without a tremendous amount of hassle or expense? That number has to be miniscule. It's a non-problem. You don't toss away the security of an election for this tiny, tiny minority."

    By definition, any drastic change to voting laws will change the composition of the electorate and artificially alter election results.

    I think that you may be underestimating how difficult it might be for some rural elderly voters to comply with ID laws, especially for the number of poor black voters in the South that were born at home because of either expense or lack of access to segregated healthcare facilities. Is this number huge? No, but neither is the number of illegal voters.

    I think that voter fraud vs voter disenfranchisement is basically a "wash" involving small numbers. We have laws to prosecute voter fraud and the number of prosecutions are minuscule in spite of the diligence of organizations like "True the Vote" to monitor voting in minority areas. They should rename their organization to "True the Black and Brown Vote".

    It's so sad to see the Party of Lincoln and Eisenhower move in the direction of actively discouraging voting. Voting used to be thought of as a patriotic act that was encouraged by both parties. Many black veterans came back from risking their lives in WWII and lived in places where they couldn't vote. That was a real issue, not this non-problem.

     
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      MumblesBadly: Well said.

  10. #30
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnCommode View Post
    "How many people do you think are truly disenfranchised -- people who CAN'T get ID without a tremendous amount of hassle or expense? That number has to be miniscule. It's a non-problem. You don't toss away the security of an election for this tiny, tiny minority."

    By definition, any drastic change to voting laws will change the composition of the electorate and artificially alter election results.

    I think that you may be underestimating how difficult it might be for some rural elderly voters to comply with ID laws, especially for the number of poor black voters in the South that were born at home because of either expense or lack of access to segregated healthcare facilities. Is this number huge? No, but neither is the number of illegal voters.

    I think that voter fraud vs voter disenfranchisement is basically a "wash" involving small numbers. We have laws to prosecute voter fraud and the number of prosecutions are minuscule in spite of the diligence of organizations like "True the Vote" to monitor voting in minority areas. They should rename their organization to "True the Black and Brown Vote".

    It's so sad to see the Party of Lincoln and Eisenhower move in the direction of actively discouraging voting. Voting used to be thought of as a patriotic act that was encouraged by both parties. Many black veterans came back from risking their lives in WWII and lived in places where they couldn't vote. That was a real issue, not this non-problem.
    Unfortunately you are falling right into the trap talking points set by the left regarding this issue. Whenever logical-minded people start talking about closing the outrageous gaping security hole in our elections (where I could register a dog to vote in 5 minutes, and then easily vote as him), we immediately hear two quick leftist talking points:

    1) Fake registration voter fraud isn't a problem, and "studies" show this. (Even though such "studies" are impossible to be anywhere near accurate, since this is almost impossible to detect when it occurs.)

    2) Voter ID is racist and will disenfranchise poor people, especially black poor people.

    Point #1 is easy to refute, though that doesn't stop the left from repeatedly trotting it out, since their claim about "studies show..." tends to shut down most morons who can't think critically.

    However, point #2 is much more complicated. Indeed, there are some Americans who simply can't get ID easily because of the lack of a birth certificate or other ID, or extreme difficulty in obtaining such certificates.

    I agree that these people need a vote, and you can't just dismiss the issue with, "Tough luck, solve it for yourself". However, the left is not interested in reforms which would allow these people to vote. There are various ways to do this, yet the left isn't interested. They are simply against Voter ID, period. You don't hear the left talking about reforms to get ID for these people, or reforms to Voter ID laws allowing them a path to vote. The left doesn't want any of that, because this isn't really about disenfranchisement. In reality, Democrats know that they will lose votes with Voter ID laws, because most people without ID simply don't want ID, or are too lazy to bother getting ID. So even if the "can't get ID" people are taken care of, Democrats still lose votes under a Voter ID system, and they hate that.

    I am wiling to admit that the right mainly wants Voter ID laws because it benefits them.

    Why can't you guys admit that the left's motives in fighting Voter ID laws isn't pure, and that they mainly want to avoid losing votes from people who are too lazy to get ID?

    It is still insane to me that many of you are supporting a voting system with zero security, which is what non-ID systems really are. If I could take 5 minutes to register my dog and successfully vote in his name, you know the system is a disaster.

     
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      1marley1: No you couldn’t register your dog.

  11. #31
    Platinum Muck Ficon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnCommode View Post
    "How many people do you think are truly disenfranchised -- people who CAN'T get ID without a tremendous amount of hassle or expense? That number has to be miniscule. It's a non-problem. You don't toss away the security of an election for this tiny, tiny minority."

    By definition, any drastic change to voting laws will change the composition of the electorate and artificially alter election results.

    I think that you may be underestimating how difficult it might be for some rural elderly voters to comply with ID laws, especially for the number of poor black voters in the South that were born at home because of either expense or lack of access to segregated healthcare facilities. Is this number huge? No, but neither is the number of illegal voters.

    I think that voter fraud vs voter disenfranchisement is basically a "wash" involving small numbers. We have laws to prosecute voter fraud and the number of prosecutions are minuscule in spite of the diligence of organizations like "True the Vote" to monitor voting in minority areas. They should rename their organization to "True the Black and Brown Vote".

    It's so sad to see the Party of Lincoln and Eisenhower move in the direction of actively discouraging voting. Voting used to be thought of as a patriotic act that was encouraged by both parties. Many black veterans came back from risking their lives in WWII and lived in places where they couldn't vote. That was a real issue, not this non-problem.
    Unfortunately you are falling right into the trap talking points set by the left regarding this issue. Whenever logical-minded people start talking about closing the outrageous gaping security hole in our elections (where I could register a dog to vote in 5 minutes, and then easily vote as him), we immediately hear two quick leftist talking points:

    1) Fake registration voter fraud isn't a problem, and "studies" show this. (Even though such "studies" are impossible to be anywhere near accurate, since this is almost impossible to detect when it occurs.)

    2) Voter ID is racist and will disenfranchise poor people, especially black poor people.

    Point #1 is easy to refute, though that doesn't stop the left from repeatedly trotting it out, since their claim about "studies show..." tends to shut down most morons who can't think critically.

    However, point #2 is much more complicated. Indeed, there are some Americans who simply can't get ID easily because of the lack of a birth certificate or other ID, or extreme difficulty in obtaining such certificates.

    I agree that these people need a vote, and you can't just dismiss the issue with, "Tough luck, solve it for yourself". However, the left is not interested in reforms which would allow these people to vote. There are various ways to do this, yet the left isn't interested. They are simply against Voter ID, period. You don't hear the left talking about reforms to get ID for these people, or reforms to Voter ID laws allowing them a path to vote. The left doesn't want any of that, because this isn't really about disenfranchisement. In reality, Democrats know that they will lose votes with Voter ID laws, because most people without ID simply don't want ID, or are too lazy to bother getting ID. So even if the "can't get ID" people are taken care of, Democrats still lose votes under a Voter ID system, and they hate that.

    I am wiling to admit that the right mainly wants Voter ID laws because it benefits them.

    Why can't you guys admit that the left's motives in fighting Voter ID laws isn't pure, and that they mainly want to avoid losing votes from people who are too lazy to get ID?

    It is still insane to me that many of you are supporting a voting system with zero security, which is what non-ID systems really are. If I could take 5 minutes to register my dog and successfully vote in his name, you know the system is a disaster.
    Druff....If it's so easy to register your dog, and vote on his behalf. Do it! What are you so afraid of? You won't get caught.
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  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SPIT this View Post
    So I gotta go to the DMV again before I can vote?
    You don't have a license?

    Sad!
    Uhh.. no I have a license. I gotta go to the DMV to pick up my new "national ID".
    2) In order to get a National ID, you come in and show your state ID, birth certificate, or passport. Then you get fingerprinted, and they issue you a National ID with your picture on it.

  13. #33
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muck Ficon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post

    Unfortunately you are falling right into the trap talking points set by the left regarding this issue. Whenever logical-minded people start talking about closing the outrageous gaping security hole in our elections (where I could register a dog to vote in 5 minutes, and then easily vote as him), we immediately hear two quick leftist talking points:

    1) Fake registration voter fraud isn't a problem, and "studies" show this. (Even though such "studies" are impossible to be anywhere near accurate, since this is almost impossible to detect when it occurs.)

    2) Voter ID is racist and will disenfranchise poor people, especially black poor people.

    Point #1 is easy to refute, though that doesn't stop the left from repeatedly trotting it out, since their claim about "studies show..." tends to shut down most morons who can't think critically.

    However, point #2 is much more complicated. Indeed, there are some Americans who simply can't get ID easily because of the lack of a birth certificate or other ID, or extreme difficulty in obtaining such certificates.

    I agree that these people need a vote, and you can't just dismiss the issue with, "Tough luck, solve it for yourself". However, the left is not interested in reforms which would allow these people to vote. There are various ways to do this, yet the left isn't interested. They are simply against Voter ID, period. You don't hear the left talking about reforms to get ID for these people, or reforms to Voter ID laws allowing them a path to vote. The left doesn't want any of that, because this isn't really about disenfranchisement. In reality, Democrats know that they will lose votes with Voter ID laws, because most people without ID simply don't want ID, or are too lazy to bother getting ID. So even if the "can't get ID" people are taken care of, Democrats still lose votes under a Voter ID system, and they hate that.

    I am wiling to admit that the right mainly wants Voter ID laws because it benefits them.

    Why can't you guys admit that the left's motives in fighting Voter ID laws isn't pure, and that they mainly want to avoid losing votes from people who are too lazy to get ID?

    It is still insane to me that many of you are supporting a voting system with zero security, which is what non-ID systems really are. If I could take 5 minutes to register my dog and successfully vote in his name, you know the system is a disaster.
    Druff....If it's so easy to register your dog, and vote on his behalf. Do it! What are you so afraid of? You won't get caught.
    Because I'm not a cheater and don't want to vote twice in an election where it's not my right to do so.

    Same reason I wouldn't walk into a person's home and steal their shit if they went on vacation with their door unlocked, while at the same time telling them that they're idiots to leave their house so vulnerable.

  14. #34
    Platinum Jayjami's Avatar
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    For the record, 0.0% of the community agrees with you. I get it, we’re all idiots. Look at the “stupid” responses. Thanks for trying to correct our thinking, but we’re too dense.

  15. #35
    Diamond TheXFactor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SPIT this View Post
    So I gotta go to the DMV again before I can vote?
    You don't have a license?

    Sad!
    Oh no, your driver's license doesn't count, you need to obtain a REAL ID in order to vote, board a plane or enter a federal building.

    Only 27% of people have obtained a REAL ID so far and less than half of people may bother to obtain one.

    REAL ID is just another failure from the U.S. government.

    These fucking Mexicans need to stop entering the country to vote for the Democrats. Now if Mexicans were illegally entering the country to vote Republican, then Druff would be all for it.



  16. #36
    Gold SPIT this's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheXFactor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post

    You don't have a license?

    Sad!
    Oh no, your driver's license doesn't count, you need to obtain a REAL ID in order to vote, board a plane or enter a federal building.

    Only 27% of people have obtained a REAL ID so far and less than half of people may bother to obtain one.

    REAL ID is just another failure from the U.S. government.

    These fucking Mexicans need to stop entering the country to vote for the Democrats. Now if Mexicans were illegally entering the country to vote Republican, then Druff would be all for it.


    Yep, a lot of people don't realize this. DMV's and airports are going to be a shitshow in like 11 months. Even though most states have real IDs for drivers license, they don't just automatically issue you a real ID. They still give a non-real ID license to most people.

    My guess is they're going to delay (again) the Real ID requirement, or just cancel it altogether. But if not, it's going to be a disaster. Has Trump taken a stance on this?

  17. #37
    Diamond TheXFactor's Avatar
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    In order for me to get a REAL ID I had to give the DMV my insurance paperwork + a copy of my bank statement. I don't think most people will be willing to do this. It is easier to obtain a U.S. passport even though it costs more and takes longer.





  18. #38
    Gold gauchojake's Avatar
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    You need a SSN# to register to vote in CA at the DMV website.

    I think the bigger question is why do you hate minorities so much Druff????

  19. #39
    Gold MrTickle's Avatar
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    In Russia there's a mandatory internal passport which all Russians MUST have at age 14.

    Why not have a mandatory ID?

  20. #40
    All Sorts of Sports gut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPIT this View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TheXFactor View Post

    Oh no, your driver's license doesn't count, you need to obtain a REAL ID in order to vote, board a plane or enter a federal building.

    Only 27% of people have obtained a REAL ID so far and less than half of people may bother to obtain one.

    REAL ID is just another failure from the U.S. government.

    These fucking Mexicans need to stop entering the country to vote for the Democrats. Now if Mexicans were illegally entering the country to vote Republican, then Druff would be all for it.


    Yep, a lot of people don't realize this. DMV's and airports are going to be a shitshow in like 11 months. Even though most states have real IDs for drivers license, they don't just automatically issue you a real ID. They still give a non-real ID license to most people.

    My guess is they're going to delay (again) the Real ID requirement, or just cancel it altogether. But if not, it's going to be a disaster. Has Trump taken a stance on this?
    Yup. Oregon still hasn't implemented real id yet, they say they'll be ready by July. Dmvs here are already a shitshow, I can only imagine when everyone without a passport but flies domestically has to get a new id in a 3 month time span.

    I'm sure it will all work great.

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