Originally Posted by bottomset_69
I watched the video.
Fairly interesting.
There's no doubt that they ran into a lot of bullshit and a power-obsessed security guard, but the beta male host of the video fucked up several things which escalated the matter unnecessarily.
When you travel in third world countries, you need to put your ego aside and basically seek to keep yourself out of hot water. This guy didn't do that at all.
His girlfriend stepped on a barrier made of small rocks, and apparently the security guard felt that the barrier itself wasn't supposed to be touched.
Okay, simple mistake, and I'm sure it happens all the time.
I have no doubt that the security guard ran over, blowing his whistle and acting like a power-tripping asshole. The way the guard acted in the video speaks for itself.
However, the right play at that point is to apologize, rather than argue back and forth with him. Just say, "Sorry, I didn't realize, I will never step on the rocks here again", and be done with it. That's all these guys want -- to feel like they asserted power over you.
Mind you, I won't tolerate bullshit like this in the US, but in a third world country, it's a whole different ballgame, as they can make your life miserable (or even hurt you with little consequence) if you push back.
While it isn't explicitly shown in this video, it seems that this dude's Spanish-speaking girlfriend got into a big confrontation with the guard, which then escalated, and then the guard became obsessed with them giving him their National Park tickets, presumably so he could confiscate them as punishment.
Then, when they wouldn't hand him the tickets out of fear he would confiscate them, it escalated further, and he attempted to stop them from leaving that area of the park, turning into a semi-physical altercation which could have ended up a lot worse than it did.
Oddly, the host of this video seemed to alternate from legitimate concern for his safety, to stubborn passive-aggressive behavior which kept making everything worse.
Even stranger, despite their (reasonable) fear for safety on a small third-world island, they threw caution to the wind and continued on to another portion of the park, where predictably they were eventually stopped and questioned.
However, the most head-scratching part of the story came from their demands to one of the managers, who initially seemed cooperative. The manager somehow knew that they had a big YouTube following (they must have told him this), which scared him, and he wanted to make it right. The guy agreed to their demands to refund their money for their National Park tickets, and offered to comp some other experiences for them on the island. They claimed they asked him for a scuba diving experience, a tour, and some kind of dance show. He agreed. Fine, whatever. But amazingly, they also told him that they wouldn't be satisfied until that aggressive security guard apologized to them!
WTF???
In all my shitty customer services experiences of my life, not once have I ever demanded and apology from the offending person. Why would I want one? I know it's going to be insincere. Clearly this dude wanted the "apology" just to humiliate the guard with whom he had the confrontation.
Not surprisingly, this is where everything broke down, and the previously helpful manager started ignoring him, never delivered on his promises, and then eventually released a response video bashing them.
This dumbass video host still doesn't realize that he was in a third world country, and is lucky he actually got the manager to make some concessions and offer them some shit. Often if you tussle with the employees in such a place, you end up in a dingy prison cell, or worse. Demanding an apology on top of that? GTFO
I'm guessing that the guard said he's not giving an apology, and everyone decided that the host would just take the apology and make a degrading video anyway when he gets home, so they might as well just go back on everything promised, and instead release their own version of events.
Now, I believe everything the host of the video said happened. The whole thing was shitty, and I agree a lot of inappropriate things happened. But you have to realize where you are, and de-escalate.
Finally, it's laughable that he pretends like he's concerned about getting sued. Yeah right. As if a lawsuit against him by a tribe on a small island off Chile has any teeth in his own country. He could wipe his ass with any lawsuit papers served to him. He's just pumping up that concern to get clicks.
For a guy who supposedly travels all the time, he's clueless regarding how to behave in third world countries.
I'm guessing not asking for an apology & instead advocating for the firing of someone is somehow better in Druff's world.
In the 1st scenario someone makes a half-hearted apology & everyone goes their seperate ways.
In the 2nd someone loses their ability to make a living & pay their rent & provide for any possible family they may have while also making it more difficult to land another job because someone decided they didn't like someone else's attitude regarding some insignificant service issue.
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I'd really prefer this thread to be about the video and not my responses to customer service matters, but I'll answer this anyway.
Nobody is entitled to keep their job. For every guy working a customer service position, there are a ton of other people who are unemployed who would love to have that position. These unemployed people also have families and have trouble paying rent. When a job is lost, the position doesn't disappear -- it goes to someone else who needs it!
With that said, I don't seek to get anyone fired for minor BS. I only complain about an employee when they are extremely rude/confrontational with me, or when they display an astounding level of incompetence or unwillingness to do their job.
And when I do complain, I tell a true and correct version of events. I don't exaggerate or make up details in order to make "my side" look better. Basically, my story to their boss is simply giving management a true look into what went on at their business, which they have a right to know.
If you owned a business, wouldn't you want to know about employees who grossly misbehave and/or mistreat customers? I'm sure you would.
Not sure if you watched the video, but 100% this guard deserved to be fired. Apparently he can't be fired because he's part of the indigenous tribe there, and their jobs are guaranteed (lol), but ignoring that, the dude definitely stepped way over the line and should not be acting as a security guard anywhere.
Asking for an apology is useless, as it's never going to be sincere, and the only purpose is to humiliate the employee you had the issue with.
I have no desire to humiliate bad employees. I simply want my issues corrected, and if they treated me especially poorly, I want their boss to know what happened. I don't have the power to fire employees at these companies. Only management does. If I tell management the truth as to what happened, and it's deemed a fire-able offense, then so be it. I've likely done a good thing for both the business and future customers.
If you still don't agree, think of it this way:
Say you own a business, and are hiring for a customer service position.
"John" comes in to interview for it. During the interview, John tells you, "Yeah, I just want to let you know, I have a short temper and will get in customers' faces if they irritate me. Also, if I drank a lot the night before, I'll probably be feeling kinda hung over and lazy, and will avoid doing any kind of real work which involves concentration that day. Oh, but I have a family and need the money, so can you hire me?"
There's zero point zero chance you would hire John, right?
Now let's slightly change it. John seems like a great guy during the interview process and you hire him. But it turns out he's a short-tempered asshole who mistreats customers and doesn't work hard. You aren't on premises so you aren't aware of any of this for about a month. Finally, a customer he mistreated contacts you and tells you what just happened. Is that customer an asshole for telling you about John? And if you fire John, should you feel bad for him that he needs the money?
I'd really prefer this thread to be about the video and not my responses to customer service matters, but I'll answer this anyway.
Nobody is entitled to keep their job. For every guy working a customer service position, there are a ton of other people who are unemployed who would love to have that position. These unemployed people also have families and have trouble paying rent. When a job is lost, the position doesn't disappear -- it goes to someone else who needs it!
With that said, I don't seek to get anyone fired for minor BS. I only complain about an employee when they are extremely rude/confrontational with me, or when they display an astounding level of incompetence or unwillingness to do their job.
And when I do complain, I tell a true and correct version of events. I don't exaggerate or make up details in order to make "my side" look better. Basically, my story to their boss is simply giving management a true look into what went on at their business, which they have a right to know.
If you owned a business, wouldn't you want to know about employees who grossly misbehave and/or mistreat customers? I'm sure you would.
Not sure if you watched the video, but 100% this guard deserved to be fired. Apparently he can't be fired because he's part of the indigenous tribe there, and their jobs are guaranteed (lol), but ignoring that, the dude definitely stepped way over the line and should not be acting as a security guard anywhere.
Asking for an apology is useless, as it's never going to be sincere, and the only purpose is to humiliate the employee you had the issue with.
I have no desire to humiliate bad employees. I simply want my issues corrected, and if they treated me especially poorly, I want their boss to know what happened. I don't have the power to fire employees at these companies. Only management does. If I tell management the truth as to what happened, and it's deemed a fire-able offense, then so be it. I've likely done a good thing for both the business and future customers.
If you still don't agree, think of it this way:
Say you own a business, and are hiring for a customer service position.
"John" comes in to interview for it. During the interview, John tells you, "Yeah, I just want to let you know, I have a short temper and will get in customers' faces if they irritate me. Also, if I drank a lot the night before, I'll probably be feeling kinda hung over and lazy, and will avoid doing any kind of real work which involves concentration that day. Oh, but I have a family and need the money, so can you hire me?"
There's zero point zero chance you would hire John, right?
Now let's slightly change it. John seems like a great guy during the interview process and you hire him. But it turns out he's a short-tempered asshole who mistreats customers and doesn't work hard. You aren't on premises so you aren't aware of any of this for about a month. Finally, a customer he mistreated contacts you and tells you what just happened. Is that customer an asshole for telling you about John? And if you fire John, should you feel bad for him that he needs the money?
Cool fucking story.
Rationalize it anyway you want. & yes, I'm 100% confident that you never do anything to escalate any of these situations into way more than they originally are.
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Pay attention. I didn't say I don't escalate things. If someone at a business is a complete dick to me, yes I will speak up.
I said I don't escalate in certain situations/places where it could end up bad for me. These include third world countries, international border crossings, and during flights. In all of these, if you piss off the wrong person, they have the power to make your life hell, so you need to just suck it up and take it.
But in most other cases I will stand up to bullshit. My original point here was that this guy in the video recklessly escalated the situation in a third world country, putting himself and his girlfriend in danger. He managed to luckbox into both avoiding getting beaten/killed/jailed AND then getting free shit due to his notoriety on YouTube. Then he inexplicably decided to be a pompous ass and demanded an apology, ruining the whole thing.
Reporting to corporate or someones manager doesn't make you an Alpha male.
The guy just seemed like a beta male from how he came off in the video. I thought that within a minute of watching him, before he even got to the story. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's the strong impression I got.
I'm not clicking on the OP vid right now, but I'm telling ya the dude in the video screenshot looks like he could possibly pass for Skinny Pete's younger meth slinging cousin or some shit.
I would have been in the Easter Island jail had that been me. This poor guy has the patience of a saint.
this vid just really shows you how you have little rights and how unsafe things could potentially be outside of the usa.
Last edited by mulva; 10-27-2019 at 06:05 PM.
In third world countries, this is 100% true. That's why you keep your head down and don't fuck around when visiting these places.
Or the easier thing to just not go to shithole countries.In third world countries, this is 100% true. That's why you keep your head down and don't fuck around when visiting these places.
Not to speak poorly of him, but I think some of this is indirectly Anthony Bourdains fault. But these puds like the guy making this video forget that Bourdain had the $$$ from a television network behind his travels to insulate him from anything that could potentially go wrong.
Of course you have to be careful, but seeing the world (including shit hole countries) is a very natural desire and there's nothing wrong with it.Or the easier thing to just not go to shithole countries.
Not to speak poorly of him, but I think some of this is indirectly Anthony Bourdains fault. But these puds like the guy making this video forget that Bourdain had the $$$ from a television network behind his travels to insulate him from anything that could potentially go wrong.
Part of being careful will usually involve acting like a beta male.
I'm don't know much about Easter Island, but there are plenty of interesting places to visit where if a local runs up to you screaming, you need to be in diffuse mode. Apologize. Don't worry about being 'right'. Just gtfo of the situation as quickly and peacefully as possible. If you aren't capable of doing that (and plenty of people aren't), I would suggest you take guts advice.
Last edited by duped_samaritan; 10-29-2019 at 09:27 PM.
Yes, I agree. That was the point I was making.Of course you have to be careful, but seeing the world (including shit hole countries) is a very natural desire and there's nothing wrong with it.
Part of being careful will usually involve acting like a beta male.
I'm don't know much about Easter Island, but there are plenty of interesting places to visit where if a local runs up to you screaming, you need to be in diffuse mode. Apologize. Don't worry about being 'right'. Just gtfo of the situation as quickly and peacefully as possible. If you aren't capable of doing that (and plenty of people aren't), I would suggest you take guts advice.
FYI I wasn't calling the guy a beta because of how he acted during the confrontation. If I got into a confrontation like that in a third world country, I would also be practicing avoidance and trying to keep everything calm. My criticism of the video host was that he didn't do this enough, and was at times making things worse. I called him a beta male from his general demeanor in the video he did later. As I said, that's the only video I've seen of him, so maybe I'm wrong, but that was my impression.
However, it is very wise to avoid confrontation if visting third world countries.
I haven't had any third world travel incidents like this guy (thank God), but I did have one which could have escalated if I didn't keep my cool.
When I take cruises, I never take their shitty tours on land. Those tours are expensive (especially if you have multiple people in your family going), slow, and crowded.
Instead, I either rent a car and do a self-tour, or I hire an independent tour guide, usually in advance.
Our cruise in December 2013 stopped in Belize on Christmas Day. I wanted to see the Altun Ha Mayan ruins there, which were said to be interesting. They also had a unique feature in that you were allowed to walk on top of one of the (high) ruins and get a great view of the entire area, whereas almost every other place will not let you do that.
I booked a private tour with an independent operation there. This tour company had a mostly-good reputation, but there were a few bad reviews which concerned me. Anyway, they still seemed to be the best option. I dealt with the owner directly who quoted us $220 for the entire family for the tour, which would be private and included a knowledgeable tour guide and admission to Altun Ha for everyone. I verified with him twice the date, terms, and price, and he confirmed. I did not have to pay anything in advance, as is common with these independent tours in third world countries.
We got there on Christmas and they kept stalling me. They were selling on-the-spot tours for $80 per head, and squeezing 6-8 people into each van. I kept asking where my tour guide was, and everyone acted confused and kept telling me to wait. After about 20 minutes of this, I figured out what had to be going on. They were getting unprecedented demand (probably because other operations were closed on Christmas), and were selling out each van for $480-$640. Why would they want to honor my reservation for $220? Of course, they were wishing I had never shown. They were hoping if they stalled me enough, I'd just get frustrated and go away.
Finally I located the owner, who was right there the entire time. He knew what was going on but was avoiding me, for obvious reasons. I told him about my tour and asked when it was leaving. He claimed there were no private tours booked that day. I whipped out my phone and showed him the 2 confirmation e-mails he sent. He sheepishly said, "Okay, so how much did I quote you?"
I told him $220, and showed him.
He laughed and said, "$220? $220? Come on, I can't do this for $220 on Christmas! I'll do $220 if we make it semi-private and I put another family with you."
I refused, and told him firmly but calmly he needed to honor his own agreement. He ignored that and just kept muttering, "I can't do it for $220, or anywhere near $220, go find someone else."
It appeared to be a lost cause. Part of me wanted to yell in his face that he was a complete asshole for willfully breaking his own word just to be greedy, and how I was going to hammer his business with tons of bad reviews all over Yelp and travel sites. However, I remembered where I was, and I kept calm.
"This is very disappointing," I quietly told him. "It's really too bad you aren't a man of your word. Well, I'm leaving."
I then gathered my family, and we walked away. (Benjamin's mom was even more pissed than I was, and was 100% in support of us walking away, rather than offering to pay him double or whatever.) The plan was to go find a tour dockside, even if it wasn't private. I wasn't giving that fucker a penny over $220, nor was I letting him stuff others in our van.
Then a funny thing happened. After our argument was over and I was walking away, the dude looked around and noticed the big crowd of people was gone. They had loaded everyone into vans, and had one empty van left, with one tour guide with his hands in his pockets. Whoops! Looks like demand wasn't as high as he thought it was.
He called me back there and claimed he was going to honor his word "for his reputation" (lol), and we took the tour for the agreed upon $220. The guide was actually excellent, and was a highly educated guy who had intensely studied archaeology. So the tour was great.
But I remember when I was initially walking away, thinking to myself, "If this were in the US, I'd be handling this very differently."
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