And so it begins... teacher fired in Virginia due to refusal to use "preferred pronouns" of transgender student

[nightmarefish]

Yes it must have been Russia that cost Hillary the election... Listen to you, you can't admit that Hillary made huge mistakes that cost her the election. One of the biggest being ignoring the people of Wisconsin and Michigan, because fuck them right they're just a bunch of dumb trailer trash hillbillies that will vote Democratic anyway. Blinded by her own arrogance and unable to look at herself, like most liberals and exactly like Tine. Tine has the emotional intelligence of a 2 year old thus he could never possibly realize he's the problem. Must be Russia.

It's sad that these sexist rants have just become normal.

Tine is a chick? One of those things you miss but after you’re in the know it seems so obvious.

[sonatine]

Yes it must have been Russia that cost Hillary the election... Listen to you, you can't admit that Hillary made huge mistakes that cost her the election. One of the biggest being ignoring the people of Wisconsin and Michigan, because fuck them right they're just a bunch of dumb trailer trash hillbillies that will vote Democratic anyway. Blinded by her own arrogance and unable to look at herself, like most liberals and exactly like Tine. Tine has the emotional intelligence of a 2 year old thus he could never possibly realize he's the problem. Must be Russia.

It's sad that these sexist rants have just become normal.

its also kind of encouraging to know that the watering hole for that sort of incel tantrun fury has shrunk to the point where people feel compelled to shoehorn it into conversations here.

[jsearles22]

I don't understand why you can't just call someone what they want to be called. It's not hard.

[Crowe Diddly]

Also, the truth is that the obsession with pronouns is mostly just histrionics from the SJW left, and actual trans people don't find it all that important (aside from the SJW trans).

If you ask a typical transgender person, they would say, "We understand how this can confuse people and they can screw up with what they refer to me as. As long as you're trying to be respectful and treating me like a human being, I'm cool with you."

Many of them are actually annoyed with the SJW types who immediately ask them, "What are your pronouns?" and create an awkward situation, and much prefer that everyone just say "hi" and take their best guess at the right pronouns.

Imagine druff telling us what trans people want.

Which "actual trans people" have you ever talked to about this? Because what you claim to be the case seems to be the exact opposite of what trans people ask for. Asking people what they prefer to be called is the single easiest and best way to "be respectful" and treat them "like a human being." In fact, in my direct experience, if you call them the wrong pronoun, they will mostly kindly correct you in a low key manner and hope it sticks with you. If you actually ask ahead of time, they will tell you, and likely thank you for asking. That's my personal, for-real experience with "actual trans people."

I can 100% guarantee you that trans people are not offended by asking them their pronouns. It's one of the clearest signs of respect that you can show you give a fuck about what they are. About who they are.

[mulva]

nap time, boomer.

It's dipshits like you that got Trump elected in the first place, the funny thing is you're oblivious to this. You're truely the worst kind of person and one of the biggest reasons the country is divided and getting worse by the day. You think you're smart (for unknown reasons), you can't ever admit you're wrong (one of the worst traits a human can have) and you'll never concede anything from the other side or even begin to try and see where they're coming from. You won't even concede that it's wrong to raise a 3 three old as being trans. You're a joke.

the journey of 1000 miles begins with the first step. and let's give the dude some credit. he did get rid of his pedo avatar.

[blake]

nap time, boomer.

It's dipshits like you that got Trump elected in the first place, the funny thing is you're oblivious to this. You're truely the worst kind of person and one of the biggest reasons the country is divided and getting worse by the day. You think you're smart (for unknown reasons), you can't ever admit you're wrong (one of the worst traits a human can have) and you'll never concede anything from the other side or even begin to try and see where they're coming from. You won't even concede that it's wrong to raise a 3 three old as being trans. You're a joke.

this post is awful and your read on tine is just absolutely terrible, from your perception that he doesn't understand why trump got elected, to his supposed refusal to ever being mistaken, to trans issues (he's been one of the most critical people on the subject on this site).

i'm not trying to be a cheerleader but your read is just so bad

[devidee]

Wax her balls, bigot.

[RS_]

Getting fired for a slip of the tongue. How am I not surprised this is what all this bullshit has come down to?

[badguy23]

I think the mexican and nightmare r both Druff

No lie I had a conversation earlier this morning about this same thing but knew nothing about this.

I'm on the fence I hope another dupe can sway me.

[gimmick]

Fairly sure we're already using made up names. Your parents give you a few those, your friends/peers/spouse might give you some and if you want you can give yourself a few. Not a whole lot of science about any of that.

[Dan Druff]

Also, the truth is that the obsession with pronouns is mostly just histrionics from the SJW left, and actual trans people don't find it all that important (aside from the SJW trans).

If you ask a typical transgender person, they would say, "We understand how this can confuse people and they can screw up with what they refer to me as. As long as you're trying to be respectful and treating me like a human being, I'm cool with you."

Many of them are actually annoyed with the SJW types who immediately ask them, "What are your pronouns?" and create an awkward situation, and much prefer that everyone just say "hi" and take their best guess at the right pronouns.

Imagine druff telling us what trans people want.

Which "actual trans people" have you ever talked to about this? Because what you claim to be the case seems to be the exact opposite of what trans people ask for. Asking people what they prefer to be called is the single easiest and best way to "be respectful" and treat them "like a human being." In fact, in my direct experience, if you call them the wrong pronoun, they will mostly kindly correct you in a low key manner and hope it sticks with you. If you actually ask ahead of time, they will tell you, and likely thank you for asking. That's my personal, for-real experience with "actual trans people."

I can 100% guarantee you that trans people are not offended by asking them their pronouns. It's one of the clearest signs of respect that you can show you give a fuck about what they are. About who they are.

I see.

You guarantee, huh?

Natalie Wynn, leftist transgender YouTube star, would strongly disagree: https://pokerfraudalert.com/forum/sh...other-leftists

[Crowe Diddly]

I can 100% guarantee you that trans people are not offended by asking them their pronouns. It's one of the clearest signs of respect that you can show you give a fuck about what they are. About who they are.

I see.

You guarantee, huh?

Natalie Wynn, leftist transgender YouTube star, would strongly disagree: https://pokerfraudalert.com/forum/sh...other-leftists

You'll have to excuse me for not being as pedantic as I need to be in an argument with you, because you've misinterpreted what I said to your own benefit, as you do. That's my fault for not being excruciatingly clear.

I did not say that 100% of transgendered people would agree. I would never say 100% of any people do anything alike or agree on anything. By I do believe 100% that transgender people, as a group, prefer that you ask them their preference on pronouns and how you should refer to them, than not do it and make your assumptions about them. Have I sufficiently clarified my stance?

I'll go a bit further. You should only ask them for their pronouns if you actually get to know them a bit or have a reason to ask. Treat them like humans first, not as curiosities. And you know what's better than learning their pronouns, and easier than remembering them? Learning their name. Makes everything a WHOLE lot simpler for everyone.

[v12cl]

Time to bring back legit bullying, it keeps everyone honest.

Think you are a female trapped in a man's body?

Pretty sure your peers know the truth, better than you do. With enough shit, maybe you will figure it out, too.

[Dan Druff]

I see.

You guarantee, huh?

Natalie Wynn, leftist transgender YouTube star, would strongly disagree: https://pokerfraudalert.com/forum/sh...other-leftists

You'll have to excuse me for not being as pedantic as I need to be in an argument with you, because you've misinterpreted what I said to your own benefit, as you do. That's my fault for not being excruciatingly clear.

I did not say that 100% of transgendered people would agree. I would never say 100% of any people do anything alike or agree on anything. By I do believe 100% that transgender people, as a group, prefer that you ask them their preference on pronouns and how you should refer to them, than not do it and make your assumptions about them. Have I sufficiently clarified my stance?

I'll go a bit further. You should only ask them for their pronouns if you actually get to know them a bit or have a reason to ask. Treat them like humans first, not as curiosities. And you know what's better than learning their pronouns, and easier than remembering them? Learning their name. Makes everything a WHOLE lot simpler for everyone.

I don't understand why you're mocking me for supposedly speaking for all trans people, and then you go on to speak for trans people.

You're no more qualified to speak for them than I am.

I just showed you a very prominent (and left-leaning) trans who complained that the "woke SJW" types make it very awkward by constantly asking for pronouns and falling all over themselves apologizing when they say something like "you guys". She said that it's far easier to simply walk into a North Carolina bar, where you wouldn't expect a lot of political correctness, and people just simply address her as a woman, because that's how she presents. And if there's any confusion, she doesn't flip out.

Aside from the SJW fanatical outliers, most trans just want to fit in and be accepted and treated as their new gender. They actually DON'T want attention brought to their pronouns, as it makes them feel like outcasts. For example, when I walk into a room, people don't ask me my pronouns. They see that I'm a dude, and refer to me as one. That's what most trans people are going for.

Interesting how you said that using their name is better than attempting to learn pronouns. I agree. That's exactly what this teacher did. He accepted the new male name and used it for this student. Yet he's being fired for accidentally saying "she" a few times.

That's my problem.

[Crowe Diddly]

You'll have to excuse me for not being as pedantic as I need to be in an argument with you, because you've misinterpreted what I said to your own benefit, as you do. That's my fault for not being excruciatingly clear.

I did not say that 100% of transgendered people would agree. I would never say 100% of any people do anything alike or agree on anything. By I do believe 100% that transgender people, as a group, prefer that you ask them their preference on pronouns and how you should refer to them, than not do it and make your assumptions about them. Have I sufficiently clarified my stance?

I'll go a bit further. You should only ask them for their pronouns if you actually get to know them a bit or have a reason to ask. Treat them like humans first, not as curiosities. And you know what's better than learning their pronouns, and easier than remembering them? Learning their name. Makes everything a WHOLE lot simpler for everyone.

I don't understand why you're mocking me for supposedly speaking for all trans people, and then you go on to speak for trans people.

You're no more qualified to speak for them than I am.

I just showed you a very prominent (and left-leaning) trans who complained that the "woke SJW" types make it very awkward by constantly asking for pronouns and falling all over themselves apologizing when they say something like "you guys". She said that it's far easier to simply walk into a North Carolina bar, where you wouldn't expect a lot of political correctness, and people just simply address her as a woman, because that's how she presents. And if there's any confusion, she doesn't flip out.

Aside from the SJW fanatical outliers, most trans just want to fit in and be accepted and treated as their new gender. They actually DON'T want attention brought to their pronouns, as it makes them feel like outcasts. For example, when I walk into a room, people don't ask me my pronouns. They see that I'm a dude, and refer to me as one. That's what most trans people are going for.

Interesting how you said that using their name is better than attempting to learn pronouns. I agree. That's exactly what this teacher did. He accepted the new male name and used it for this student. Yet he's being fired for accidentally saying "she" a few times.

That's my problem.

I was more mocking you because you don't seem to be a guy who has any contact whatsoever with transgendered people. My opinions are more based on my experience doing work for temp agencies in the area. There are a LOT more trans people in temp jobs than you might expect, so this type of thing comes up all the time. However, yes, neither one of us should be speaking for a community we aren't a part of. I was merely relaying my experiences with said community, as well as their search for employment and dealings with their new employers, and how their trans-ness affects both them and their new employers, and what I've learned from all that. You were relaying the experiences of a world-famous youtube star. Both are valid.

So I looked up the teacher's deal, just out of curiosity to see if he was fired for merely making a mistake a few times. No, that's definitely not the full story, as is almost always the case. Just like any time I see an article from CNN (or FOX or a few other outlets), I try to see if there's a better source for the story. After reading the Washington Post, an NBCNews article, and a few others, its pretty clear that despite only calling the student by name until the last "slip-up," he had no problem referring to the student as "her" to pretty much everyone else, including the students classmates, other teachers, etc against the direct orders of the admin, just not when the student was around. It was repeatedly pointed out that that puts the student in a real tough spot, since things like that get back to the student and family and other teachers and the higher-ups real quick. He was warned repeatedly for doing exactly what he was told not to do, and when he finally did it to the child's face, his "mistake," he got shitcanned. If he hadn't been doing it the entire time to other students and teachers, the warnings and ultimatums never would have made it that far.

So no, he was not fired merely for his one slip-up. He was fired for his continued use of calling the student female pronouns. As one article put it, to paraphrase, his biggest sin wasn't using the wrong term by mistake in front of the student, it was his determined, continual use of the wrong term with everyone BUT THE STUDENT that put him in that position. Using it in front of the student was merely the final sin.

[Dan Druff]

This still doesn't sound so bad. So he calls a female-to-male transgender "her", usually to people other than the student.

Again, I ask you, what if the student wanted pronouns "they" or "ze"? Would the teacher be expected to use those pronouns?

As I said, if I were in that position, I would just use the "he/him" pronouns and respect what that student wanted, but I have a problem with someone being fired for not doing so, especially after making at least somewhat of an effort to go along with the whole thing.

You assumed that I don't have interactions with trans people, but you're incorrect. Two people I knew from the past are now male-to-female trans, and are Facebook friends. I interact with both, refer to them by their new name and female pronouns, and don't ever bring up them being trans unless it's relevant to the conversation. One of them recently posted an opinion on Facebook that they think the whole "non binary" thing is BS, and it's mostly people co-opting the trans identity in order to look cool/edgy. I said that I agreed.

[RealTalk]

His boss told him not to do something and he continued to do it. He got fired. What else is supposed to happen when you repeatedly do something at work you were told not to do?

[Dan Druff]

His boss told him not to do something and he continued to do it. He got fired. What else is supposed to happen when you repeatedly do something at work you were told not to do?

It's a matter of what the boss has the right to ask you to do.

This actually has some parallels to the Colin Kaepernick situation, except with the political sides switched.

There are two differences I see here:

1) Colin was actively doing something non-standard he was asked not to do (kneel during the National Anthem), whereas this teacher was asked to CHANGE the way he had always addressed students born male and female.

2) Colin was playing football for a private company, whereas this teacher was presumably working for a public school. When public money is involved, the boss can't just unilaterally decide something like this without discussion and potential fallout.

[Kuntmissioner]

It's dipshits like you that got Trump elected in the first place, the funny thing is you're oblivious to this. You're truely the worst kind of person and one of the biggest reasons the country is divided and getting worse by the day. You think you're smart (for unknown reasons), you can't ever admit you're wrong (one of the worst traits a human can have) and you'll never concede anything from the other side or even begin to try and see where they're coming from. You won't even concede that it's wrong to raise a 3 three old as being trans. You're a joke.

this post is awful and your read on tine is just absolutely terrible, from your perception that he doesn't understand why trump got elected, to his supposed refusal to ever being mistaken, to trans issues (he's been one of the most critical people on the subject on this site).

i'm not trying to be a cheerleader but your read is just so bad

To be fair, it's probanly hard for him to get an accurate read while he's tilting so hard.

[RealTalk]

His boss told him not to do something and he continued to do it. He got fired. What else is supposed to happen when you repeatedly do something at work you were told not to do?

It's a matter of what the boss has the right to ask you to do.

This actually has some parallels to the Colin Kaepernick situation, except with the political sides switched.

There are two differences I see here:

1) Colin was actively doing something non-standard he was asked not to do (kneel during the National Anthem), whereas this teacher was asked to CHANGE the way he had always addressed students born male and female.

2) Colin was playing football for a private company, whereas this teacher was presumably working for a public school. When public money is involved, the boss can't just unilaterally decide something like this without discussion and potential fallout.

Which is why we're at a lawsuit now. You'll clearly be able to find opinions on both side of the debate as to whether he should be required to use preferred pronoun like most decent humans would, yourself included.

But him getting fired for blatantly ignoring directives from his superiors is the least surprising thing ever. That's how this works. They didn't even snap fire him. He was placed on suspension where I'm sure the school board combed through all the policies and details to make sure they had due cause to terminate him.