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Thread: Michael Dukakis and the tank: An insider's perspective

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Michael Dukakis and the tank: An insider's perspective

    This good article, written by a longtime Democrat and Michael Dukakis campaign adviser, tells you all you'd ever want to know about the disasterous "Michael Dukakis tank" pic, and the resulting fallout which beat him in the 1988 Presidential election.

    I remember seeing this picture in the newspaper during the morning of my US History AP class, where we were supposed to bring the morning newspaper and discuss what we had read. Even at age 16, I remember thinking the picture looked ridiculous, and didn't understand how it was supposed to make him look "tough on defense".

    https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...ank-099119?o=0




    This pic led to the following attack ad a month later, which effectively sunk Dukakis' campaign for good:




    Interestingly, there was actually a much better Dukakis tank pic, sans helmet, which would not have backfired, but Dukakis' campaign insisted he ride around in the tank at full speed, which required the awkward-looking helmet for safety reasons.





    This was the final shot which killed the Dukakis campaign, but the majority of his lead was eroded over the summer of 1988, partially due to the infamous Willie Horton ad:




    Dukakis also blew it during a CNN debate, where he seemed oddly unemotional and callous when answering whether he'd support the death penalty if his wife were murdered:





    So this wasn't Dukakis' only misstep, but it was the one which left him dead in the water. He chunked off a seemingly insurmountable 17-point campaign lead, and got crushed in the 1988 election.

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    Once again we see style beating substance.

    And look to he lost to, another silver spoon fed idiot, war criminal and
    man of the people.


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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Dukakis was a Massachusetts liberal at a time that wasn't going to play well with the rest of the country.

    The weekend furluogh program he had was a disaster, and was a horrible look at a time when crime was nearly at its all-time peak in the US. People were getting really sick of "soft on crime" liberals who kept wanting to give extremely violent criminals a second chance.

    He had little foreign policy experience (as opposed to Bush, who had a great resume), and that was a constant thorn in his side, given that we were still in the Cold War.

    He seemed to have a plan to raise taxes, whereas Bush promised to do the opposite ("Read my lips!") That statement came back to haunt Bush when, in the spirit of bipartisan cooperation, he broke that promise, and it went on to help defeat him in 1992. But in 1988, Bush was the guy who was going to continue the Reagan policy of lower taxation, and Dukakis seemed to mark a return to some of the disasterous tax policies in the 1970s.

    He was short and hairy, and just lacked charisma.

    He wasn't a good candidate. Too many vulnerabilities.

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    i was in 1st grade but I got the joke at 1:27, still do


     
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      nightmarefish: So much gold.

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    That election came down to men vs women:

    The men all wanted Bush

    But the women said “Do cock us”


    Wrote that terrible joke in 1988...what a hack...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Dukakis was a Massachusetts liberal at a time that wasn't going to play well with the rest of the country.

    The weekend furluogh program he had was a disaster, and was a horrible look at a time when crime was nearly at its all-time peak in the US. People were getting really sick of "soft on crime" liberals who kept wanting to give extremely violent criminals a second chance.

    He had little foreign policy experience (as opposed to Bush, who had a great resume), and that was a constant thorn in his side, given that we were still in the Cold War.

    He seemed to have a plan to raise taxes, whereas Bush promised to do the opposite ("Read my lips!") That statement came back to haunt Bush when, in the spirit of bipartisan cooperation, he broke that promise, and it went on to help defeat him in 1992. But in 1988, Bush was the guy who was going to continue the Reagan policy of lower taxation, and Dukakis seemed to mark a return to some of the disasterous tax policies in the 1970s.

    He was short and hairy, and just lacked charisma.

    He wasn't a good candidate. Too many vulnerabilities.
    Dukakis didn’t have a good television presence, but was good at retail politics, i.e. meet-and-greets with regular folks. I actually experience this in a chance encounter with him on a sidewalk in Boston about a year after he lost that election.

    I was in Boston for an academic conference which had job recruiting sessions for freshly minted finance MBAs, and was on my way during midday break back to the conference from my offsite hotel accommodations, when low-and-behold coming the other way on the sidewalk around a bend in the street was Michael Dukakis with an aide accompanying him and telling him something while they were walking.

    In reaction to this surprise, I couldn’t help but stare at him while they came closer along the narrow sidewalk. And my gaze wasn’t likely one of adoration, as I had heartily voted for his chief opponent for the presidency the year before, and had thought like most my then-fellow Republicans probably did that he was somewhat a national joke. But in the next minute, and in response to what he unexpected did, my opinion of him as a politician has dramatically changed over time.

    And here it was: Despite the seemingly important information his aide was feeding him as they walked along, he noticed me looking at him as they came within 10 feet of me, looked up, his face broke into a disarming smile, and said “Howdy, Mac!” while looking directly my way with his trademark friendly squinting eyes. And before I had a chance to respond, he and his aide had slipped by me on the sidewalk, continuing on to wherever they were going. And in the glow of a chance encounter with this political celebrity on the opposite side of the political spectrum, I continued on the conference feeling more than a bit embarrassed that I had harbored so much animosity towards him up to just beforehand merely because of our differences in political ideologies.
    Last edited by MumblesBadly; 09-17-2019 at 04:51 PM.
    _____________________________________________
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I actually hope this [second impeachment] succeeds, because I want Trump put down politically like a sick, 14-year-old dog. ... I don't want him complicating the 2024 primary season. I just want him done.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Were Republicans cowardly or unethical not to go along with [convicting Trump in the second impeachment Senate trial]? No. The smart move was to reject it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Texter View Post
    That election came down to men vs women:

    The men all wanted Bush

    But the women said “Do cock us”




    Wrote that terrible joke in 1988...what a hack...
    Lol

    I was only like 10 or 11 at the time, but the version I remember floating around was something like "da bush and da cockus...one fucking thing after another..."

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    Gold SPIT this's Avatar
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    We should have a memorable debate moments thread. One of my favorites was Chris Christie destroying Marco after he repeated the same line 4 times in a debate right before the New Hampshire primary. This essentially ended Marco having any chance of being the nominee


     
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      Sanlmar:
      
      thesidedish: jesus marco rubio was terrible

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    Plutonium Sanlmar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPIT this View Post
    We should have a memorable debate moments thread. One of my favorites was Chris Christie destroying Marco after he repeated the same line 4 times in a debate right before the New Hampshire primary. This essentially ended Marco having any chance of being the nominee

    Excellent video. Takes you back.

    Blame the Russians, Sonatine. When the most likely alternatives to Trump were idiots like that little weasel Rubio it was a fait accompli. He made Trump look Presidential.

    Did you see the list of candidates the Republicans offered at beginning of video? Good lord.

    btw, wasn’t one of the Rubio narratives his absentee voting record?
    Last edited by Sanlmar; 09-17-2019 at 07:41 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MumblesBadly View Post

    Dukakis didn’t have a good television presence, but was good at retail politics, i.e. meet-and-greets with regular folks. I actually experience this in a chance encounter with him on a sidewalk in Boston about a year after he lost that election.
    The first time I saw my former Governor in person, I was probably a sophomore or junior in high school. Somewhere between '92-94. I used to sometimes cut my last 2 classes and walk to Newbury St in Boston to hit up Tower Records and Newbury Comics, then be back at school 2 hours later to grab the bus home. Anyway, right in front of Simmons College or thereabouts, Dukakis was walking down the sidewalk in a suit with briefcase, likely going to teach a class nearby after getting off the green line, and he was picking up trash off the ground as he walked by. That's a real-ass guy who gives a fuck.

    Also, guy loves his turkey soup.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crowe Diddly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MumblesBadly View Post

    Dukakis didn’t have a good television presence, but was good at retail politics, i.e. meet-and-greets with regular folks. I actually experience this in a chance encounter with him on a sidewalk in Boston about a year after he lost that election.
    The first time I saw my former Governor in person, I was probably a sophomore or junior in high school. Somewhere between '92-94. I used to sometimes cut my last 2 classes and walk to Newbury St in Boston to hit up Tower Records and Newbury Comics, then be back at school 2 hours later to grab the bus home. Anyway, right in front of Simmons College or thereabouts, Dukakis was walking down the sidewalk in a suit with briefcase, likely going to teach a class nearby after getting off the green line, and he was picking up trash off the ground as he walked by. That's a real-ass guy who gives a fuck.

    Also, guy loves his turkey soup.
    By all accounts, Dukakis was a nice, honest, unpretentious guy, and these anecdotes from you and Mumbles align with that.

    Unfortunately, that doesn't always translate into a good Presidential candidate, and he was especially wrong for the late 80s, when crime was at its highest in modern history, and people were still skittish about returning to the high tax 70s.

    As far as character of Democratic candidates from 1976-2016 goes, Carter and Dukakis were definitely at the top of the list. Good guys, not really cut out for the Presidency. Bill Clinton, on the other hand, was very fit for the Presidency and made an excellent candidate, but he was also a shady, dishonest jerk, and very likely a rapist.

    I can separate the men from their politics. For example, I've always disliked Trump as a person, and that hasn't changed. And I have no doubt that if I went to work for him, he'd fuck me over at some point. Of course, I also strongly disliked Hillary as a person, so the last election guaranteed that someone I felt was selfish and dishonest would win.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Crowe Diddly View Post

    The first time I saw my former Governor in person, I was probably a sophomore or junior in high school. Somewhere between '92-94. I used to sometimes cut my last 2 classes and walk to Newbury St in Boston to hit up Tower Records and Newbury Comics, then be back at school 2 hours later to grab the bus home. Anyway, right in front of Simmons College or thereabouts, Dukakis was walking down the sidewalk in a suit with briefcase, likely going to teach a class nearby after getting off the green line, and he was picking up trash off the ground as he walked by. That's a real-ass guy who gives a fuck.

    Also, guy loves his turkey soup.
    By all accounts, Dukakis was a nice, honest, unpretentious guy, and these anecdotes from you and Mumbles align with that.

    Unfortunately, that doesn't always translate into a good Presidential candidate, and he was especially wrong for the late 80s, when crime was at its highest in modern history, and people were still skittish about returning to the high tax 70s.

    As far as character of Democratic candidates from 1976-2016 goes, Carter and Dukakis were definitely at the top of the list. Good guys, not really cut out for the Presidency. Bill Clinton, on the other hand, was very fit for the Presidency and made an excellent candidate, but he was also a shady, dishonest jerk, and very likely a rapist.

    I can separate the men from their politics. For example, I've always disliked Trump as a person, and that hasn't changed. And I have no doubt that if I went to work for him, he'd fuck me over at some point. Of course, I also strongly disliked Hillary as a person, so the last election guaranteed that someone I felt was selfish and dishonest would win the election.
    Honesty, and decency is a negative trait for a politician.

    Carter is a decent, honest man, I'd even say a good man. Arguably he was a terrible, ineffective president.

    The game is designed for scumbags by scumbags, decent folks are at a huge disadvantage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salty_Aus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post

    By all accounts, Dukakis was a nice, honest, unpretentious guy, and these anecdotes from you and Mumbles align with that.

    Unfortunately, that doesn't always translate into a good Presidential candidate, and he was especially wrong for the late 80s, when crime was at its highest in modern history, and people were still skittish about returning to the high tax 70s.

    As far as character of Democratic candidates from 1976-2016 goes, Carter and Dukakis were definitely at the top of the list. Good guys, not really cut out for the Presidency. Bill Clinton, on the other hand, was very fit for the Presidency and made an excellent candidate, but he was also a shady, dishonest jerk, and very likely a rapist.

    I can separate the men from their politics. For example, I've always disliked Trump as a person, and that hasn't changed. And I have no doubt that if I went to work for him, he'd fuck me over at some point. Of course, I also strongly disliked Hillary as a person, so the last election guaranteed that someone I felt was selfish and dishonest would win the election.
    Honesty, and decency is a negative trait for a politician.

    Carter is a decent, honest man, I'd even say a good man. Arguably he was a terrible, ineffective president.

    The game is designed for scumbags by scumbags, decent folks are at a huge disadvantage.

    You wonder how racism is passed on through the family, stupid remarks like you've just made rub off on your
    family as well.

    Honesty and decency is what makes a person worth knowing. There is no higher honour than to be thought of in those ways. No denying that most politicans have become sumbags only looking out for thier best interest but to say the decent honourable ones are somehaw at a disadvantage is the most ignorant thing I've read from you.

    There has been only one decent Republican President after Dwight Eisenhower and that was Geral Ford.

    People are fooled by the likes of Trump because they are fools. There is no substance to these people becuase they are simply out for themselves. Most things you say or write defending these pretenders shows you almost admire their behaviour.

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    no way any american living in areas with small numbers of eyetalians, other southern europeans or jews would ever vote for a nose and eyebrows like his. especially the ladies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by limitles View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Salty_Aus View Post

    Honesty, and decency is a negative trait for a politician.

    Carter is a decent, honest man, I'd even say a good man. Arguably he was a terrible, ineffective president.

    The game is designed for scumbags by scumbags, decent folks are at a huge disadvantage.

    You wonder how racism is passed on through the family, stupid remarks like you've just made rub off on your
    family as well.

    Honesty and decency is what makes a person worth knowing. There is no higher honour than to be thought of in those ways. No denying that most politicans have become sumbags only looking out for thier best interest but to say the decent honourable ones are somehaw at a disadvantage is the most ignorant thing I've read from you.

    There has been only one decent Republican President after Dwight Eisenhower and that was Geral Ford.

    People are fooled by the likes of Trump because they are fools. There is no substance to these people becuase they are simply out for themselves. Most things you say or write defending these pretenders shows you almost admire their behaviour.
    No I do not admire scumbags, or a grifter like Trump.

    I simply believe you have a much better chance of being a successful politician, if you're a lying sack of shit with no real morals. Willing to flip-flop to whatever cause helps your political career.

    Honest man is at a huge disadvantage. IMHO

    If I said "is a negative trait for a successful politician" would you feel better?
    My comment was not an endorsement, the opposite in fact.

    Whatever
    Last edited by Salty_Aus; 09-18-2019 at 12:33 AM.

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    Canadrunk limitles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salty_Aus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by limitles View Post

    You wonder how racism is passed on through the family, stupid remarks like you've just made rub off on your
    family as well.

    Honesty and decency is what makes a person worth knowing. There is no higher honour than to be thought of in those ways. No denying that most politicans have become sumbags only looking out for thier best interest but to say the decent honourable ones are somehaw at a disadvantage is the most ignorant thing I've read from you.

    There has been only one decent Republican President after Dwight Eisenhower and that was Geral Ford.

    People are fooled by the likes of Trump because they are fools. There is no substance to these people becuase they are simply out for themselves. Most things you say or write defending these pretenders shows you almost admire their behaviour.
    No I do not admire scumbags, or a grifter like Trump.

    I simply believe you have a much better chance of being a successful politician, if you're a lying sack of shit with no real morals. Willing to flip-flop to whatever cause helps your political career.

    Honest man is at a huge disadvantage. IMHO

    If I said "is a negative trait for a successful politician" would you feel better?
    My comment was not an endorsement, the opposite in fact.

    Whatever
    Holy shit that was you I throught it was Todd.

    The only reason an honesst person holding office is at a disadvantage is because they make up a very small minority.
    They are seen as simpletons by the rest who know how to take the money form the powers that be and keep quiet.

    They are mocked for holding noble ideals. Consider that the so called scumbags lie to themselve every day
    and that means they have no trouble lying to their consituinets

    Your saying in effect oih what can we you, it's being on so long. We can't change. Doesn't matter what the topic
    Americans can put a spin on it.

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    Silver cleatus's Avatar
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    more interesting/funny tank story. meth, backyard gold mine and death in a tank. San Diego 1995.


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    Platinum Jayjami's Avatar
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    Ok, I have to admit, voting for Dukakis was a mistake, but I was in my 20s and living in San Francisco. I remember when that ad came out, after that, my Republican mom just referred to him as “Helmet Head” and would start laughing uncontrollably.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    This good article, written by a longtime Democrat and Michael Dukakis campaign adviser, tells you all you'd ever want to know about the disasterous "Michael Dukakis tank" pic, and the resulting fallout which beat him in the 1988 Presidential election.

    I remember seeing this picture in the newspaper during the morning of my US History AP class, where we were supposed to bring the morning newspaper and discuss what we had read. Even at age 16, I remember thinking the picture looked ridiculous, and didn't understand how it was supposed to make him look "tough on defense".

    https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...ank-099119?o=0




    This pic led to the following attack ad a month later, which effectively sunk Dukakis' campaign for good:



    Interestingly, there was actually a much better Dukakis tank pic, sans helmet, which would not have backfired, but Dukakis' campaign insisted he ride around in the tank at full speed, which required the awkward-looking helmet for safety reasons.


    The ridiculous photo-op with him wearing the helmet in the tank reminds me of John Kerry’s equally ridiculous stunt of introducing himself on stage at the 2004 Democratic National Convention after being nominated by first saluting and reciting “I’m John Kerry and I’m reporting for duty!” What a fucking cartoonish way for a serious presidential candidate of presenting oneself before a national audience for the job of Commander-in-Chief. IMO, it made him look like a propped-up poser, and did absolutely nothing to counter the defamatory narrative put out by the Swiftboaters.
    _____________________________________________
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I actually hope this [second impeachment] succeeds, because I want Trump put down politically like a sick, 14-year-old dog. ... I don't want him complicating the 2024 primary season. I just want him done.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Were Republicans cowardly or unethical not to go along with [convicting Trump in the second impeachment Senate trial]? No. The smart move was to reject it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by limitles View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Salty_Aus View Post

    No I do not admire scumbags, or a grifter like Trump.

    I simply believe you have a much better chance of being a successful politician, if you're a lying sack of shit with no real morals. Willing to flip-flop to whatever cause helps your political career.

    Honest man is at a huge disadvantage. IMHO

    If I said "is a negative trait for a successful politician" would you feel better?
    My comment was not an endorsement, the opposite in fact.

    Whatever
    Holy shit that was you I throught it was Todd.

    The only reason an honesst person holding office is at a disadvantage is because they make up a very small minority.
    They are seen as simpletons by the rest who know how to take the money form the powers that be and keep quiet.

    They are mocked for holding noble ideals. Consider that the so called scumbags lie to themselve every day
    and that means they have no trouble lying to their consituinets

    Your saying in effect oih what can we you, it's being on so long. We can't change. Doesn't matter what the topic
    Americans can put a spin on it.
    Name:  giphy-downsized-large (1).gif
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    Im not here at this juncture to defend one poster from another, but I find it hilarious and glaringly obvious of your silly bias and complete inability to comprehend shit at times

    And yes, I certainly did supplement my findings with the evidence of the bolded areas that once again support the fact that you were apparently completely shitfaced while trying to come off as smart


    You've made a lot of drunk posts, but this is right up there in the "Limitles HOF"

    Get your damn shit together dude




    this is a perfect example as to why...



    Your posts are...



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    LIMITED

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