That's great that you're not in that camp!Originally Posted by Dan Druff
Wait what?
That's great that you're not in that camp!
Wait what?
i suspect you're in the extreme minority for GOP voters. by way of example, i don't think a republican could propose a ban on AR-15's (and similar rifles), without getting crushed in the primaries.There are 2nd Amendment fanatics within the GOP who will not back any sort of gun reform for any reason.
I'm telling you that I'm not one of them, and many other Republicans are not in that camp.
However, many of us are resistant to any kind of gun reform agreement because it will be the first step in a long process to take the guns out of our hands.
You might laugh and say that's ridiculous, but I laughed at the Christian right 10 years ago when they claimed the left wanted to eventually legalize abortion-for-any-reason all the way until birth. Now I feel foolish for doubting them.
What are you confused about, duped?
For years the religious right claimed that the left's supposed defense of Roe v. Wade was just a stepping stone to eventually legalizing full term abortion. At the time, most dismissed them as Christian paranoid nutjobs. Turned out they were right -- that's exactly what's happening now.
I'm saying that I don't want "reasonable" gun reform to become the new abortion somewhere down the line -- where the left suddenly shifts to the extreme position because they've already gotten the public to buy in to their more moderate reform.
A lot on the left want full gun control, and many aren't shy in expressing that. However, the smarter ones claim they're wiling to compromise, and meet the GOP somewhere in the middle, where we could at least have some kind of gun reform in order to cut down on these mass shootings.
My fear -- and the fear among many in the GOP -- is that these "compromises" will not be the end, no does the left believe it will end there. With every new shooting, especially if it involves kids, we will start seeing calls again for MORE reform, until we eventually get to full gun control.
No thanks.
this is terrible reasoning and leads to absurd results that no one likes.
maybe we shouldn't have any abortion laws because it might lead to a total abortion ban one day -- which is exactly what some on the right want and are currently pushing to the Supreme Court.
maybe we shouldn't ban hand grenades sales to the public cause that will eventually lead to banning guns.
you can use this absurd reasoning in every aspect of life.
You are conflating mere voters who support the GOP with GOP members of Congress who face the risk of getting primaried by an NRA-backed challenger. And we all know how the extremists in the GOP have the most power because of the ridiculously low turnout for party-only primaries.There are 2nd Amendment fanatics within the GOP who will not back any sort of gun reform for any reason.
I'm telling you that I'm not one of them, and many other Republicans are not in that camp.
However, many of us are resistant to any kind of gun reform agreement because it will be the first step in a long process to take the guns out of our hands.
Also, being resistant to any gun reform measures, especially common sense ones like mental health exclusion and the gun show loophole, because of some fear that the fervent anti-gun wing of the Dem Party is going to run roughshod over the rest of Congress, resulting in “taking away out guns” is also utterly asinine in light of the landmark 2008 District of Columbia v. Heller SCOTUS ruling that enshrined the right of individual gun ownership, albeit with room for “reasonable” gun control.
It follows that no amount of political maneuvering by anti-gun Dems is going to put a smidgeon of a dent in those rights, and the GOP members of Congress absolutely know this. As such, posturing by them to resist any gun reforms due to the slippery slope argument that it would lead to a national abolition of individual gun ownership is red meat fearmongering. And you are playing along like an utterly ridiculous GOP sheeple by parroting this slippery slope argument.
_____________________________________________
The part where you say:
And then explain how you will not back any sort of gun reform because:There are 2nd Amendment fanatics within the GOP who will not back any sort of gun reform for any reason.
I'm telling you that I'm not one of them, and many other Republicans are not in that camp.
They're both fair points. But can't make them both at the same time.it will be the first step in a long process to take the guns out of our hands.
It's not absurd reasoning when it's really happening.this is terrible reasoning and leads to absurd results that no one likes.
maybe we shouldn't have any abortion laws because it might lead to a total abortion ban one day -- which is exactly what some on the right want and are currently pushing to the Supreme Court.
maybe we shouldn't ban hand grenades sales to the public cause that will eventually lead to banning guns.
you can use this absurd reasoning in every aspect of life.
This doesn't apply to all laws because the majority of laws passed don't have major political implications, thus there's no need for either side to attempt to ease them in.
Abortion and gun control have very major political implications, and were dividing the country even before we were born.
It is very clear to me that many on the left want full gun control.
It is very clear to me that the left jumps on previous compromise to then push for further extremes of the laws they got changed or passed.
It is very clear to me that this tactic has become increasingly common in recent years.
Thus, I'd be a fool to support any gun reform measures from the left, unless they were to clearly state and go on record that this is absolutely the end of it for a long time, and that they will not be pushing for further gun reform after the next mass shooting. And this is something they will never state, because their real agenda is full gun control.
Furthermore, blake, as I know you're a moderate who both hates Trump and hates some of the recent antics of the extreme left, I would think you of all people would understand this.
A lot of what you currently dislike about the left is only being openly pitched to the public because there's been public buy-in to the more moderate versions of some of their positions.
i wonder if gun rights could have prevented limitles from being thrown out of drug treatment.
"Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky
"America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs
i have a radical suggestion. how about instead of the "left" getting everything it wants or the "right" getting everything it wants, let's at least pass the laws that the majority of each party wants.It's not absurd reasoning when it's really happening.
This doesn't apply to all laws because the majority of laws passed don't have major political implications, thus there's no need for either side to attempt to ease them in.
Abortion and gun control have very major political implications, and were dividing the country even before we were born.
It is very clear to me that many on the left want full gun control.
It is very clear to me that the left jumps on previous compromise to then push for further extremes of the laws they got changed or passed.
It is very clear to me that this tactic has become increasingly common in recent years.
Thus, I'd be a fool to support any gun reform measures from the left, unless they were to clearly state and go on record that this is absolutely the end of it for a long time, and that they will not be pushing for further gun reform after the next mass shooting. And this is something they will never state, because their real agenda is full gun control.
or we can go your route and we can get the left to publicly reassure you that no further gun laws will happen for a "long time". who would you accept this public statement from? are we talking like a notarized affidavit?
i just don't agree with your reasoning on this, even though i agree with you that the far left (not majority of even democrats) wants to get rid of guns
the "fear of a slippery slope" rationale should never get in the way of grownups making hard choices.
I'd accept it from someone like Pelosi, and of course there would have to be buy-in from most Democrats at the time.i have a radical suggestion. how about instead of the "left" getting everything it wants or the "right" getting everything it wants, let's at least pass the laws that the majority of each party wants.
or we can go your route and we can get the left to publicly reassure you that no further gun laws will happen for a "long time". who would you accept this public statement from? are we talking like a notarized affidavit?
This would never happen, so it's not worth discussing. Nobody ever wants to handcuff themselves in the future on a political issue.
BTW, look how quickly Obamacare (which started in 2014) has quickly morphed into many on the left advocating socialized medicine. Another example. And I'm a guy who really wants to see healthcare reform, btw.
Ideally, gun reform would come from the right, so there was no illusion of compromise which could later be exploited. This probably won't happen, but that would be the best way for it to occur.
can someone point me to a single piece of gun reform from 'the right'?
even the bump stock ban was a left wing proposal.
"Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky
"America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs
There isn't.
I said there should be.
That would be the best solution, because if the left appears to "win" some reform, it will empower them to demand further reform every time there's another shooting.
If the GOP does it on its own, then there's less the left can say to push for further reform.
There isn't.
I said there should be.
That would be the best solution, because if the left appears to "win" some reform, it will empower them to demand further reform every time there's another shooting.
If the GOP does it on its own, then there's less the left can say to push for further reform.
so whats your plan b when the right refuses to enact any meaningful gun control legislation?
"Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky
"America is not so much a nightmare as a non-dream. The American non-dream is precisely a move to wipe the dream out of existence. The dream is a spontaneous happening and therefore dangerous to a control system set up by the non-dreamers." -- William S. Burroughs
no, forget left and right, any win regarding gun control is a win for society.....No it's not a win for fanaticsThere isn't.
I said there should be.
That would be the best solution, because if the left appears to "win" some reform, it will empower them to demand further reform every time there's another shooting.
If the GOP does it on its own, then there's less the left can say to push for further reform.
but that's not the general population who hope their kids return from school
It's relatively simple except it will start a civil war. History.....slavery no good. uncensored gun ownership no good.
Is it worth the fight.....yep.....you have a bunch of confederates who lost the first fight but hang on to their last line of defense. They and others like them should be put down.....A literal war against ignorance
does anyone get this
UNCENSORED GUN OWNERSHIP. DEREGULATED STOCK MARKETS/BANKS
UNRERGULATED ENVIRONMENTAL LAWS
DOES ANYONE GET IT?
Free enterprise is the nuts until you let it run away with itself
Last edited by limitles; 07-29-2019 at 06:39 PM.
An Iranian white supremacist ... that's a new one lol
It's like that Cruz kid all over again
i just don't agree with your reasoning on this, even though i agree with you that the far left (not majority of even democrats) wants to get rid of guns
the "fear of a slippery slope" rationale should never get in the way of grownups making hard choices.
Learn math, better not drive a car lol
The only way you will ever get my firearms is after I am dead, so GL with that
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