Dental scams

[Dan Druff]

Today I was made aware of a dental scam against an elderly (approximately 70 years old) family member of a friend of mine.

They asked for my opinion, and I felt I'd share the situation with the forum, because I've seen similar scams in the past.

This woman went to a new dentist, who informed her that a lot of prior work from a previous dentist to be redone. Supposedly decay had taken place under the crowns, bridges, fillings, etc.

She was told that the work was "urgent" and had to be started ASAP. (This is already a bad sign, as it is rare that dental work is "urgent" if it isn't causing pain.)

She authorized the work and paid a lot of money for it. Some was covered by insurance, but she still had to pay a lot of money anyway, through a combination of patient responsibility percentage and things that weren't covered.

She was also told she needs a "deep periodontal cleaning", which ended up involving in a periodontist visiting the office (who wasn't otherwise part of the practice). He worked about 20-30 minutes, did what more resembled a standard dental cleaning, and billed for a quad-scaling (an expensive deep periodontal cleaning).

When my friend found out, there was even more work scheduled, but my friend convinced the relative to stop, and go get another opinion from a different dentist, plus to not get the work done at this place regardless.

Yelp reviews of this place note similar scams, and in fact one complains they won't provide records/X-rays when asked.

Here's how you can avoid getting scammed by a dentist:

- Check Yelp reviews before going to a new dentist. If there are multiple accusations of scamming, do not go to that one.

- If a new dentist claims that a bunch of work by a previous dentist needs to be redone, it's likely a scam. At that point, go to another dentist with good reviews and get their opinion.

- If told that work is "urgent", yet you are feeling no discomfort, then there's a good chance it's a scam. Usually it is only super-urgent to do dental work if you are in pain. Otherwise, there's typically no harm in waiting a month or so (or even longer). I've had a lot of dental work done in my life, and I've never had any "urgent" work done which wasn't pain-related.

- Periodontal cleanings are often used to scam people. This is because there is a code for a "quad scaling" which allows dentists to get more than $1000 for what is little more than a more detailed cleaning of your teeth and gums, which is many times what a normal cleaning costs. Always resist "periodontal deep cleanings", and tell them you want it billed as a standard perio cleaning, where is basically the same thing. Furthermore, most people don't need periodontal cleanings. If you do, go to a periodontist you research on your own. Do not have it done at the same office (unless you already know from the past that you need regular periodontal cleanings.)

- Any office that makes it difficult or impossible to get your records is a scam.

- When told you need a root canal, tell them you'd like to go to an endodontist, even if the dentist can do it. An endodontist is better at it, and is less likely to scam you.

[Sam Snead]

dude. 70 year old that say they have a file of certain work done. IS ALL SPECULATIVE. THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW MANKY TEETH THEY HAVE.
ACCEPT AND MOVE ON. I MEAN, YOU NEED STOP AT SOME POINT.

If not, call Moscow Mitch...maybe he'll pass something for teef.

[Dan Druff]

dude. 70 year old that say they have a file of certain work done. IS ALL SPECULATIVE. THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW MANKY TEETH THEY HAVE.
ACCEPT AND MOVE ON. I MEAN, YOU NEED STOP AT SOME POINT.

If not, call Moscow Mitch...maybe he'll pass something for teef.

What are you talking about?

Do you doubt that a scam took place here?

The elderly are frequent targets of scams of all kinds.

[limitles]

Today I was made aware of a dental scam against an elderly (approximately 70 years old) family member of a friend of mine.

They asked for my opinion, and I felt I'd share the situation with the forum, because I've seen similar scams in the past.

This woman went to a new dentist, who informed her that a lot of prior work from a previous dentist to be redone. Supposedly decay had taken place under the crowns, bridges, fillings, etc.

She was told that the work was "urgent" and had to be started ASAP. (This is already a bad sign, as it is rare that dental work is "urgent" if it isn't causing pain.)

She authorized the work and paid a lot of money for it. Some was covered by insurance, but she still had to pay a lot of money anyway, through a combination of patient responsibility percentage and things that weren't covered.

She was also told she needs a "deep periodontal cleaning", which ended up involving in a periodontist visiting the office (who wasn't otherwise part of the practice). He worked about 20-30 minutes, did what more resembled a standard dental cleaning, and billed for a quad-scaling (an expensive deep periodontal cleaning).

When my friend found out, there was even more work scheduled, but my friend convinced the relative to stop, and go get another opinion from a different dentist, plus to not get the work done at this place regardless.

Yelp reviews of this place note similar scams, and in fact one complains they won't provide records/X-rays when asked.

Here's how you can avoid getting scammed by a dentist:

- Check Yelp reviews before going to a new dentist. If there are multiple accusations of scamming, do not go to that one.

- If a new dentist claims that a bunch of work by a previous dentist needs to be redone, it's likely a scam. At that point, go to another dentist with good reviews and get their opinion.

- If told that work is "urgent", yet you are feeling no discomfort, then there's a good chance it's a scam. Usually it is only super-urgent to do dental work if you are in pain. Otherwise, there's typically no harm in waiting a month or so (or even longer). I've had a lot of dental work done in my life, and I've never had any "urgent" work done which wasn't pain-related.

- Periodontal cleanings are often used to scam people. This is because there is a code for a "quad scaling" which allows dentists to get more than $1000 for what is little more than a more detailed cleaning of your teeth and gums, which is many times what a normal cleaning costs. Always resist "periodontal deep cleanings", and tell them you want it billed as a standard perio cleaning, where is basically the same thing. Furthermore, most people don't need periodontal cleanings. If you do, go to a periodontist you research on your own. Do not have it done at the same office (unless you already know from the past that you need regular periodontal cleanings.)

- Any office that makes it difficult or impossible to get your records is a scam.

- When told you need a root canal, tell them you'd like to go to an endodontist, even if the dentist can do it. An endodontist is better at it, and is less likely to scam you.

dude. 70 year old that say they have a file of certain work done. IS ALL SPECULATIVE. THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW MANKY TEETH THEY HAVE.
ACCEPT AND MOVE ON. I MEAN, YOU NEED STOP AT SOME POINT.

If not, call Moscow Mitch...maybe he'll pass something for teef.

Dentists are some of the worst scammers because who can argue with their assessment? Just dump this bitch and try another. New dentists seem to do this more than veterans of the profession. They got a big nut to feed and so there you go

[Sam Snead]

dude. 70 year old that say they have a file of certain work done. IS ALL SPECULATIVE. THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW MANKY TEETH THEY HAVE.
ACCEPT AND MOVE ON. I MEAN, YOU NEED STOP AT SOME POINT.

If not, call Moscow Mitch...maybe he'll pass something for teef.

What are you talking about?

Do you doubt that a scam took place here?

The elderly are frequent targets of scams of all kinds.

I am quite certain it happened. But, your boy is the savior. So why not cry to the people that can fix it?

Moscow Mitch can take it up legislatively.

I mean, you guys cry for so many reasons. Cry to the person that can do something. Call Mascow Mitch.

[gauchojake]

FEED THE SNEAD

[TheXFactor]

If they are 70 years old, their teeth are probably falling apart and may need dental implants, which are not covered by insurance.

Be prepared to pay at least $40,000+ for a full set of fake teeth.

[splitthis]

Dentist are crooks. I was drilled every 6 mos as a kid. I quit going as an adult and haven't had a problem since up to my recent issue that is now resolved by home remedy. I took my kid when she was young and they wanted to drill her, waited another 6 mos and she was fine by another dentist. She is 26 and has never had a cavity. Always get a second opinion that matches the first opinion or fuck them.

[Sidewinder]

Hilarious and true. Pediatric dentists have the mortal nuts in life.

Dental schools are smart too - there is only 1 place to go to Dental School in my entire state - keeps supply low. This dental school is 2-3 hour drive from the state capital. This is not by accident. The dental school in the city was at a Emory (the Harvard of the South) and they closed it down. LOL. Not only is there 1 school in the whole state, it's not close to anything.

Dentists are gangsters, period.

The oldest registered company in my state is a dental supply company.

[FRANKRIZZO]

Though I have excellent health coverage my dental coverage is for shit. About six years ago I needed a bridge done for 3 teeth and went to orthodontist who gave me an estimate for 6k. I went overseas and had exact work done for 800 dollars. I had great coverage 10 years ago. I was going to Europe anyways so it was well worth it to take an alternate route. Dentists are like veterinarians , they charge excessive fees that are generally out of pocket not covered by insurance. I empathize with Druffs relative.

[FRANKRIZZO]

If they are 70 years old, their teeth are probably falling apart and may need dental implants, which are not covered by insurance.

Be prepared to pay at least $40,000+ for a full set of fake teeth.

This happened to my mom as well

[Sanlmar]

Been going to the same dentist almost my whole life.

Whole family goes. Childhood through adulthood. Braces, accidents. All our local relatives go too

Recently, she retired. Cashed out a little early imo. Bully for her. Sold her practice

Same hygienists. Same staff. However, I now sense the small hustles.

“You ever think about whitening? We can do that, you know.”

“What kind of electric toothbrush do you use?” Of course, I can get the one they recommend at the front desk.

Here’s the best one. I mention I’m getting a little sensitive to heat and cold. “Oh, we have a product you can apply at night.” I’m like, sure. At the last minute I learn I’m paying $28 for a tube of toothpaste.

Yeah, just realized my run there is done. Run a good clean game and you had a customer for life. Hustle me and you’re done. The trust is gone.


”Ok, we are going to take xrays now”.. Go fuck yourself. I’m not taking xrays of the head for 50 years unless you got a fucking specific reason. I’ll let you know when I have an issue.

Go ahead and bill the insurer for the xrays. I’m sure you do. But I’ll skip the oncologist later.

I always enjoy the look on their face.

[Dan Druff]

Been going to the same dentist almost my whole life.

Whole family goes. Childhood through adulthood. Braces, accidents. All our local relatives go too

Recently, she retired. Cashed out a little early imo. Bully for her. Sold her practice

Same hygienists. Same staff. However, I now sense the small hustles.

“You ever think about whitening? We can do that, you know.”

“What kind of electric toothbrush do you use?” Of course, I can get the one they recommend at the front desk.

Here’s the best one. I mention I’m getting a little sensitive to heat and cold. “Oh, we have a product you can apply at night.” I’m like, sure. At the last minute I learn I’m paying $28 for a tube of toothpaste.

Yeah, just realized my run there is done. Run a good clean game and you had a customer for life. Hustle me and you’re done. The trust is gone.


”Ok, we are going to take xrays now”.. Go fuck yourself. I’m not taking xrays of the head for 50 years unless you got a fucking specific reason. I’ll let you know when I have an issue.

Go ahead and bill the insurer for the xrays. I’m sure you do. But I’ll skip the oncologist later.

I always enjoy the look on their face.

Regarding the X-Rays, I used to fear them also, but then I learned that fear was living in the past.

I had remembered in the '70s and '80s when my parents would fight vigorously to not do unnecessary X-Rays at the dentist. My father was an expert on radiation and said it was dangerous to do this. That stuck with me for life.

I was unhappy as I got older and developed enough dental problems to where the X-Rays were necessary, and the potential harm of not doing them was greater than the potential harm of doing them. So I threw caution to the wind.

Then I discussed it with my dad a few years ago, and he said that the amount of radiation from modern dental X-Rays is far less than it was in the '70s and '80s (this is true for all of those imaging tests), so I shouldn't be nearly as concerned as he was back then.

Also -- and this part I knew -- the danger from X-Rays is cumulative. This one of the few advantages of getting older. If you have had little exposure to radiation in your life, starting now won't be as bad as someone younger doing so, as there's less time for bad things to happen. This is why someone who is 75 should never worry about getting a CT scan or whatever.

[Sloppy Joe]

dude. 70 year old that say they have a file of certain work done. IS ALL SPECULATIVE. THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW MANKY TEETH THEY HAVE.
ACCEPT AND MOVE ON. I MEAN, YOU NEED STOP AT SOME POINT.

If not, call Moscow Mitch...maybe he'll pass something for teef.

What are you talking about?

Do you doubt that a scam took place here?

The elderly are frequent targets of scams of all kinds.

It must be exciting envisioning alll of these opportunities for customer service exchanges as you near 60 in the next decade! :buckleup

[Dan Druff]

Hilarious and true. Pediatric dentists have the mortal nuts in life.

Dental schools are smart too - there is only 1 place to go to Dental School in my entire state - keeps supply low. This dental school is 2-3 hour drive from the state capital. This is not by accident. The dental school in the city was at a Emory (the Harvard of the South) and they closed it down. LOL. Not only is there 1 school in the whole state, it's not close to anything.

Dentists are gangsters, period.

The oldest registered company in my state is a dental supply company.

Pediatric dentistry does have two problems, though.

First, you're dealing with bratty kids all day, some of whom are far more difficult to treat than adults. (They're far less likely to have anxiety issues which plague adults at the dentist, but they also don't cooperate a lot of the time.)

Second, kids get far fewer cavities than adults, and they also have far fewer major dental issues which are the most lucrative. No crowns, bridges, root canals... you pretty much have to give that up -- and a lot of the cavity income -- if you're doing pediatric dentistry.

But yeah I've seen what Ben's insurance pays his dentist for relatively little work, and I realize they're doing pretty damn well.

[Dan Druff]

Anyway, it's also important to distinguish "hustler" dentists from outright scammers.

Many dentists are hustlers, and that's often difficult to avoid. If you find one who doesn't hustle, then you've really found a good one, provided he/she is also competent.

But I can accept a hustle, as long as it's restricted to attempted sales and not high pressure or suspicious work suggestions.

There are some dentists like the one described in the OP who are just straight up scammers.

The dentist I go to now had an interesting history which briefly worried me, but then when I looked into the situation further, I felt much better.

This guy seemed honest and didn't seem to be pushing for work to be done, nor did he seem like a hustler. I was happy, until I went to Yelp and found a claim that he "left his last practice of [3 other dentists in the area] under suspicious circumstances".

Uh oh!

However, I went and read reviews of that other office, and found TONS of reviews claiming that the office was a scam. Basically a very similar scam to the one I described in the OP. However, going back years, my dentist was never named as the scammer. The other 3 dentists in that office were named a ton of times in the accusations on Yelp, but never mine.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out what likely happened. The guy probably realized he was working with scammers and separated himself from them, perhaps after a lot of contention regarding the whole thing. Anyway, I've been with him about 6 years now, and I've seen zero sign of anything shady. You can never be 100% sure unless you're an expert on dentistry, but I think it's highly likely this guy is honest.