Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 27

Thread: Agua Caliente Casino Palm Springs stole money from me & other players

  1. #1

    Agua Caliente Casino Palm Springs stole money from me & other players

    Hey everybody. I'm a Pokerfraudalert Radio listener and have a story where I was the victim of a theft. The theft was not by a mugger or a burglar, but rather the Agua Caliente Casino in Palm Springs, California!

    Agua Caliente has been advertising a crazy good promotion where you get an extra $500 for every handpay jackpot you hit.

    For those of you who don't know what that means, whenever you press a button on a machine and end up with $1200 or more ahead from that button press, federal law requires that the machine lock up and they pay you by hand, issuing you a W2-G tax form for it. This is true for all casinos in the US.

    An extra $500 on a handpay is already sweet, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that if you play high limit machines, handpays will occur regularly, thus netting you a cool $500 each time!

    Let me give you an example.

    At video poker, if you play $1/credit, you will only get a handpay rarely. You'd need to either hit a royal flush ($4000), or something like quad aces with a 2/3/4 kicker ($2000) on Double Double Bonus. Since these are very rare hands, you would hardly get any handpays (if any), thus making this promotion not worth very much.

    But let's say you play $10/credit. Then you would get a handpay every time you got quads ($1250) or better, making this promotion worth much more!

    Now let's say you played $50/credit! You'd be getting a handpay every time you got a flush ($1500) or better, making this very frequent!

    Therefore the strategy for this promotion is incredibly simple. Play big, hit jackpots frequently, keep collecting $500 extra each time, profit!

    Here is a link to their promotion. Scroll down a little after getting there: https://www.hotwatercasino.com/multi...sizzlin-summer

    Name:  jackpot.png
Views: 948
Size:  6.1 KB


    I live in San Diego, so the drive isn't too bad to Palm Springs. 150 miles and I'm there.

    I got there and clarified with the desk that the promo is really as it appears to be on the website. They said yes. For every handpay, no matter how many I hit, they will give me an extra $500. They did tell me video poker was not included in the jackpot promo, which was annoying, but whatever. Notice it's not on the website about that. I went to high limit slots.

    I loaded up some money in the machine and lost a few thousand. No big deal, that's the variance of something like this.

    Finally I hit a jackpot for about $1600, meaning I was due about $2100 after the promo. They paid me, and I was close to even again. I kept playing, with the confidence that I would probably walk out a good deal ahead, barring some very bad luck.

    Then I hit another jackpot for $2200 or so. That meant I was due $2700. Instead of paying me, they told me I was being kicked out of the casino!

    After feigning ignorance and claiming I was just a high limit player who heard this was a cool promo, they said they would let me cash out what was already in the machine, but were still refusing to pay the jackpot! Not only were they screwing me out of the $500 promo, but they were refusing to pay the jackpot I rightfully won!!!! This would be super duper illegal in Nevada or any other state-regulated casino in the US!

    They cashed my ticket, threw me out, and told me I would be arrested if I came back.

    I started asking around among friends and acquaintances in the gambling community, and found out some people got fucked even worse than I did.

    A few people were thrown out upon hitting a jackpot and were not paid the jackpot OR allowed to cash out their tickets! One guy had like $30k in tickets, and they confiscated them.

    In all my years in playing casinos, I've never seen anything like this. Every single casino I've known has always paid out all rightfully hit jackpots and honored all tickets, aside from certain cases where the person was already banned prior to playing. None of these people were banned prior to playing, yet a lot of jackpots were denied and a lot of tickets were confiscated and/or not allowed to be cashed!

    They only stole $2200 from me ($2700 if you count the promo money I expected), but that's nothing compared to what happened to some others.

    You would think after all this, they would stop the promo, but go take a look at the website! It's still going!

    They are just kicking out anyone whom they suspect is there to take advantage of it, and confiscating both their jackpot and their tickets in most cases.

    Not only is this really really unethical, but nobody is even trying to cheat or get away with shenanigans here. The promo says you get $500 every handpay during those hours on Wednesday, and all we did was play higher so handpays would come more often! Duh! Even amateur gamblers should be able to figure out that's the best move.

    Unfortunately since it's an Indian casino, they are considered on sovereign land, and I cannot touch them legally. Can't sue them, can't complain to the state, nothing. They can just steal and get away with it. Motherfuckers.

    Well that's all, just wanted to warn everyone to stay away from Agua Caliente in Palm Springs!

     
    Comments
      
      Crowe Diddly: Fuck. That sucks.
      
      Tellafriend: Unreal
    Last edited by Bear Necessities; 06-20-2019 at 01:20 AM.

  2. #2
    Did they say something along the lines of "You're not playing within the spirit of the promotion"? Yeah, a lot of people have gotten 86'd from there, I didn't know it was so bad that they would refuse to pay a JP though.

  3. #3
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
    Reputation
    4545
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    31,402
    Blog Entries
    2
    I heard about this promo and could have been one of those people, too, but I decided against going there, as these Indian casinos scare me.

    You have zero rights, and they can fuck you in all kinds of ways, leaving you powerless.

    No thanks.

    As tempting as it was, I stayed home.

    Sorry to hear that you were one of their victims.

    It's bullshit that they are allowed to do things like this without having to answer to the state of California. They should lose their license for shit like this.

  4. #4
    Gold Jayjami's Avatar
    Reputation
    336
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Wofford Heights, CA
    Posts
    1,092
    Indian casinos are the nut low. Iíve never been to one that didnít suck ass, with the exception of Talking Stick, and I only went there because they had a juicy 20/40 limit holdíem game back in the day. Love those Scottsdale retirees with lots of time on their hands and plenty of disposable income.

  5. #5
    Silver sah_24's Avatar
    Reputation
    -73
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Laclede
    Posts
    900
    Blog Entries
    5
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I heard about this promo and could have been one of those people, too, but I decided against going there, as these Indian casinos scare me.

    You have zero rights, and they can fuck you in all kinds of ways, leaving you powerless.

    No thanks.

    As tempting as it was, I stayed home.

    Sorry to hear that you were one of their victims.

    It's bullshit that they are allowed to do things like this without having to answer to the state of California. They should lose their license for shit like this.
    Just one of many examples showing that "regulation" does nothing to protect the consumer ... but yet I can't play on pokerstars but complete scams like this are perfectly fine and "licensed" lols

  6. #6
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
    Reputation
    4545
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    31,402
    Blog Entries
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by sah_24 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I heard about this promo and could have been one of those people, too, but I decided against going there, as these Indian casinos scare me.

    You have zero rights, and they can fuck you in all kinds of ways, leaving you powerless.

    No thanks.

    As tempting as it was, I stayed home.

    Sorry to hear that you were one of their victims.

    It's bullshit that they are allowed to do things like this without having to answer to the state of California. They should lose their license for shit like this.
    Just one of many examples showing that "regulation" does nothing to protect the consumer ... but yet I can't play on pokerstars but complete scams like this are perfectly fine and "licensed" lols
    Actually regulation WOULD protect the consumer here.

    Unfortunately there is no regulation of California Indian casinos. They have a right to do what they want and fuck people. When I first heard about this situation 20 years ago, I said, "No that's impossible. It can't be like that. We're in California. There have to be some legal remedies."

    It's true. Nothing you can do.

    Sad!

    (Will cover on radio tonight though.)

  7. #7
    WOW> This is why for YEARS I Preach and Preach to Folks NOT to Gamble(sans Live Poker Tournys)at Indian Casinosz. Due to Sovereign Nation.. I am sorry you never heard me son. There is no Recourse and even the Best guy i know t getting to the Bottom of it..will Not..Dandruff the best ever seen by me at getting situations rectified, not this time. Never Go Gamble on Indian res. ever ever ever. fk em.They getting even baby.from things you know nothing about ala our Islamic pals..they remember the Crusades and are taught not to forget..this Country folks think the World started with Christopher Columbus or georgie washington,..hahaha,,,Indians and Islam will never forget the Horror's inflicted on them.ever. remember this. gd luck..u handle it well. NY Mk.

  8. #8
    Silver sah_24's Avatar
    Reputation
    -73
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Laclede
    Posts
    900
    Blog Entries
    5
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sah_24 View Post

    Just one of many examples showing that "regulation" does nothing to protect the consumer ... but yet I can't play on pokerstars but complete scams like this are perfectly fine and "licensed" lols
    Actually regulation WOULD protect the consumer here.

    Unfortunately there is no regulation of California Indian casinos. They have a right to do what they want and fuck people. When I first heard about this situation 20 years ago, I said, "No that's impossible. It can't be like that. We're in California. There have to be some legal remedies."

    It's true. Nothing you can do.

    Sad!

    (Will cover on radio tonight though.)
    Do they get a license ? Then they are regulated, you said it yourself their license should be pulled. If there is a licensing system then yes there is regulation ... the state just cares more about the indian casino revenue than the individual fact, just like the SEC in 07-08

  9. #9
    I don't think telling people to never gamble at indian casinos is good advice. Just because you can get fucked doesn't mean that you will. I've gotten fucked fewer times at indian casinos than regular casinos (EG: Nevada), and I've played at quite a few Indian casinos. I and a few others got 86'd from an Indian casino and not only did they cash out our vouchers (prob in the 15-20k range, all combined), they moved us to the front of the line to cash out immediately. Even if they refused to cash our vouchers it would have been a drop in the bucket compared to what we made off of that place over the years. If you get fucked for a few thousand, whatever -- the next time there's a good play at an Indian casino you'll make it back tenfold. And you have to be an idiot to have $30k in vouchers during a play like this....that definitely doesn't pass the smell test. Were you faking the $500 FP vouchers or something?

  10. #10
    I worked there as a playerís rep..they suck. Wouldnít trust them, they treat employees and customers crappy. If our supervisor didnít like someone they would just say NO..and there is nothing anyone can do about it. They are a sovereign nation and as A retired attorney (yes, I worked there for minimum wage cause I was bored) I can tell you they can do whatever the hell they want and you canít do anything about it.

    And..their slots donít pay...

     
    Comments
      
      Tellafriend:

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by sah_24 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I heard about this promo and could have been one of those people, too, but I decided against going there, as these Indian casinos scare me.

    You have zero rights, and they can fuck you in all kinds of ways, leaving you powerless.

    No thanks.

    As tempting as it was, I stayed home.

    Sorry to hear that you were one of their victims.

    It's bullshit that they are allowed to do things like this without having to answer to the state of California. They should lose their license for shit like this.
    Just one of many examples showing that "regulation" does nothing to protect the consumer ... but yet I can't play on pokerstars but complete scams like this are perfectly fine and "licensed" lols
    That's fine that your are a libertarian but there is no way this story is an argument against the benefits of regulation.

    Do you think it's a coincidence that this took place in an Indian casino on sovereign land and not a casino subject to state regulation?

  12. #12
    Gold ftpjesus's Avatar
    Reputation
    295
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Mesa AZ
    Posts
    2,299
    The only way this shit stops with these Indian casinos is if the Feds step in and threaten them Iím afraid. The BIA still retains oversight over them and any crime committed is technically the jurisdiction of the FBI potentially. There just needs to be a will to put a stop to this sorta crap going on. As for somebody mentioning TSR letís not forget they pulled shenanigans last year on a customer over a slots jackpot as well. Also dates have been released and advertising is up for the AZ State Poker Championship starting Aug 9th. Letís hope there isnít a repeat of last years flooding debacle.

     
    Comments
      
      go_buccos: Spot on.
    <This Ad Space for Rent or Sale>

  13. #13
    Silver sah_24's Avatar
    Reputation
    -73
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Laclede
    Posts
    900
    Blog Entries
    5
    Quote Originally Posted by smurgerburger View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sah_24 View Post

    Just one of many examples showing that "regulation" does nothing to protect the consumer ... but yet I can't play on pokerstars but complete scams like this are perfectly fine and "licensed" lols
    That's fine that your are a libertarian but there is no way this story is an argument against the benefits of regulation.

    Do you think it's a coincidence that this took place in an Indian casino on sovereign land and not a casino subject to state regulation?
    Lol, regulators literally let Iovation work in a regulated market. Regulation does nothing to protect consumers, and yes licensing is regulation ...

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by sah_24 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by smurgerburger View Post

    That's fine that your are a libertarian but there is no way this story is an argument against the benefits of regulation.

    Do you think it's a coincidence that this took place in an Indian casino on sovereign land and not a casino subject to state regulation?
    Lol, regulators literally let Iovation work in a regulated market. Regulation does nothing to protect consumers, and yes licensing is regulation ...

    Would this have happened in NV? <y/n>

    If no, it would not have happened because state regulated casinos are <blank> regulated than reservation casinos? <more/less>

    This point is not even worth a discussion. If you're categorically against regulation (which would make you an anarchist) it should be for other reasons than that they literally never protect any consumer from anything.

     
    Comments
      
      sah_24: You are incredibly stupid ... gl with that

  15. #15

  16. #16
    Cubic Zirconia
    Reputation
    18
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Posts
    32
    Quote Originally Posted by Bear Necessities View Post
    Hey everybody. I'm a Pokerfraudalert Radio listener and have a story where I was the victim of a theft. The theft was not by a mugger or a burglar, but rather the Agua Caliente Casino in Palm Springs, California!

    Agua Caliente has been advertising a crazy good promotion where you get an extra $500 for every handpay jackpot you hit.

    For those of you who don't know what that means, whenever you press a button on a machine and end up with $1200 or more ahead from that button press, federal law requires that the machine lock up and they pay you by hand, issuing you a W2-G tax form for it. This is true for all casinos in the US.

    An extra $500 on a handpay is already sweet, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that if you play high limit machines, handpays will occur regularly, thus netting you a cool $500 each time!

    Let me give you an example.

    At video poker, if you play $1/credit, you will only get a handpay rarely. You'd need to either hit a royal flush ($4000), or something like quad aces with a 2/3/4 kicker ($2000) on Double Double Bonus. Since these are very rare hands, you would hardly get any handpays (if any), thus making this promotion not worth very much.

    But let's say you play $10/credit. Then you would get a handpay every time you got quads ($1250) or better, making this promotion worth much more!

    Now let's say you played $50/credit! You'd be getting a handpay every time you got a flush ($1500) or better, making this very frequent!

    Therefore the strategy for this promotion is incredibly simple. Play big, hit jackpots frequently, keep collecting $500 extra each time, profit!

    Here is a link to their promotion. Scroll down a little after getting there: https://www.hotwatercasino.com/multi...sizzlin-summer

    Name:  jackpot.png
Views: 948
Size:  6.1 KB


    I live in San Diego, so the drive isn't too bad to Palm Springs. 150 miles and I'm there.

    I got there and clarified with the desk that the promo is really as it appears to be on the website. They said yes. For every handpay, no matter how many I hit, they will give me an extra $500. They did tell me video poker was not included in the jackpot promo, which was annoying, but whatever. Notice it's not on the website about that. I went to high limit slots.

    I loaded up some money in the machine and lost a few thousand. No big deal, that's the variance of something like this.

    Finally I hit a jackpot for about $1600, meaning I was due about $2100 after the promo. They paid me, and I was close to even again. I kept playing, with the confidence that I would probably walk out a good deal ahead, barring some very bad luck.

    Then I hit another jackpot for $2200 or so. That meant I was due $2700. Instead of paying me, they told me I was being kicked out of the casino!

    After feigning ignorance and claiming I was just a high limit player who heard this was a cool promo, they said they would let me cash out what was already in the machine, but were still refusing to pay the jackpot! Not only were they screwing me out of the $500 promo, but they were refusing to pay the jackpot I rightfully won!!!! This would be super duper illegal in Nevada or any other state-regulated casino in the US!

    They cashed my ticket, threw me out, and told me I would be arrested if I came back.

    I started asking around among friends and acquaintances in the gambling community, and found out some people got fucked even worse than I did.

    A few people were thrown out upon hitting a jackpot and were not paid the jackpot OR allowed to cash out their tickets! One guy had like $30k in tickets, and they confiscated them.

    In all my years in playing casinos, I've never seen anything like this. Every single casino I've known has always paid out all rightfully hit jackpots and honored all tickets, aside from certain cases where the person was already banned prior to playing. None of these people were banned prior to playing, yet a lot of jackpots were denied and a lot of tickets were confiscated and/or not allowed to be cashed!

    They only stole $2200 from me ($2700 if you count the promo money I expected), but that's nothing compared to what happened to some others.

    You would think after all this, they would stop the promo, but go take a look at the website! It's still going!

    They are just kicking out anyone whom they suspect is there to take advantage of it, and confiscating both their jackpot and their tickets in most cases.

    Not only is this really really unethical, but nobody is even trying to cheat or get away with shenanigans here. The promo says you get $500 every handpay during those hours on Wednesday, and all we did was play higher so handpays would come more often! Duh! Even amateur gamblers should be able to figure out that's the best move.

    Unfortunately since it's an Indian casino, they are considered on sovereign land, and I cannot touch them legally. Can't sue them, can't complain to the state, nothing. They can just steal and get away with it. Motherfuckers.

    Well that's all, just wanted to warn everyone to stay away from Agua Caliente in Palm Springs!
    I too know about a half-dozen people who got bit by this, and I (like Druff) considered hitting it but I decided it was just too much travel for a 5-hour promo.

    There's word going around from sources I trust that's its purpose is nothing more than an AP trap, similar to the way some casinos will send blackjack tournament invites with juicy prize pools to known/suspected card counters with the sole purpose of backing them off (or worse) when they arrive.

    That said, the theft of the slot tickets and refusal to pay legitimately-won jackpots is beyond the pale, even for Indian country.

    My advice: DO NOT GIVE UP ON THIS. There is strength in numbers here and social media is your friend. Hit their twitter, facebook, instagram, whatever as often as you can and put the call out for every person (AP or not) who got fucked over by them to do the same. As many AP"s as are getting screwed, there are almost certainly some high-rolling squares caught up in it as collateral damage. Call them repeatedly until you get to the highest-level marketing person you can and tell them you're going to call back every hour until it gets resolved. I say marketing because they're most likely to be on your side here. The decisions to 86/trespass/steal are almost certainly being made by operations, and marketing is probably PISSED that all their high limit slot action is being chased off.

    Threaten to go to the mainstream media. Give them 7 days from the first threat to resolve it, and follow up on the threat if nothing happens. Again, strength in numbers. If enough people go to the media, they WILL take it seriously. The PR hit for Agua Caliente would be HUGE if this went mainstream, just as it was with Revel's disastrous/phony $100,000 loss rebate. They are not the only game in town; they have significant competition in the Coachella Valley and people WILL vote with their feet if you guys can get the word out.

    As for legal recourse:

    This is a longshot but you have nothing to lose at this point: While it's true that tribal casinos are not regulated by the state in which they reside, they ARE legally bound by the compact they signed with the State of California. Get your hands on a copy of that compact and see if there are any clauses in it that may help you here. You never know... File a complaint with the Bureau of Indian Affairs as well if possible. Call noted gaming attorney Bob Nersesian in Las Vegas. He would be VERY interested in this.

    Even though you're on tribal land, the US Constitution and all FEDERAL laws still apply. Several years ago, several well-known AP's got caught up in a similar incident at Mazatzal in Payson, AZ. Although the tribe itself couldn't be sued, IIRC Nersesian went after some of the casino employees involved AS INDIVIDUALS, and had some degree of success recovering damages. I'm not a lawyer by any stretch of the imagination, but you may have a similar option here, considering you and others were literally stolen from.

    This fucking sucks, man. Keep us posted.
    Last edited by go_buccos; 06-22-2019 at 07:06 PM.

  17. #17
    Gold duped_samaritan's Avatar
    Reputation
    363
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    2,009
    Quote Originally Posted by smurgerburger View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sah_24 View Post

    Just one of many examples showing that "regulation" does nothing to protect the consumer ... but yet I can't play on pokerstars but complete scams like this are perfectly fine and "licensed" lols
    That's fine that your are a libertarian but there is no way this story is an argument against the benefits of regulation.

    Do you think it's a coincidence that this took place in an Indian casino on sovereign land and not a casino subject to state regulation?
    He's not a libertarian.

    He's a racist Missouri redneck that is wasting his life getting high, playing video games and being a troll. In that order.

     
    Comments
      
      Salty_Aus: Nailed it
      
      sah_24: Wrong as always retard ... between you and les idk who is dumber
      
      nunbeater: l-i-v-i-n livin
      
      Kuntmissioner: Add registered sex offender to that list

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by go_buccos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bear Necessities View Post
    Hey everybody. I'm a Pokerfraudalert Radio listener and have a story where I was the victim of a theft. The theft was not by a mugger or a burglar, but rather the Agua Caliente Casino in Palm Springs, California!

    Agua Caliente has been advertising a crazy good promotion where you get an extra $500 for every handpay jackpot you hit.

    For those of you who don't know what that means, whenever you press a button on a machine and end up with $1200 or more ahead from that button press, federal law requires that the machine lock up and they pay you by hand, issuing you a W2-G tax form for it. This is true for all casinos in the US.

    An extra $500 on a handpay is already sweet, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that if you play high limit machines, handpays will occur regularly, thus netting you a cool $500 each time!

    Let me give you an example.

    At video poker, if you play $1/credit, you will only get a handpay rarely. You'd need to either hit a royal flush ($4000), or something like quad aces with a 2/3/4 kicker ($2000) on Double Double Bonus. Since these are very rare hands, you would hardly get any handpays (if any), thus making this promotion not worth very much.

    But let's say you play $10/credit. Then you would get a handpay every time you got quads ($1250) or better, making this promotion worth much more!

    Now let's say you played $50/credit! You'd be getting a handpay every time you got a flush ($1500) or better, making this very frequent!

    Therefore the strategy for this promotion is incredibly simple. Play big, hit jackpots frequently, keep collecting $500 extra each time, profit!

    Here is a link to their promotion. Scroll down a little after getting there: https://www.hotwatercasino.com/multi...sizzlin-summer

    Name:  jackpot.png
Views: 948
Size:  6.1 KB


    I live in San Diego, so the drive isn't too bad to Palm Springs. 150 miles and I'm there.

    I got there and clarified with the desk that the promo is really as it appears to be on the website. They said yes. For every handpay, no matter how many I hit, they will give me an extra $500. They did tell me video poker was not included in the jackpot promo, which was annoying, but whatever. Notice it's not on the website about that. I went to high limit slots.

    I loaded up some money in the machine and lost a few thousand. No big deal, that's the variance of something like this.

    Finally I hit a jackpot for about $1600, meaning I was due about $2100 after the promo. They paid me, and I was close to even again. I kept playing, with the confidence that I would probably walk out a good deal ahead, barring some very bad luck.

    Then I hit another jackpot for $2200 or so. That meant I was due $2700. Instead of paying me, they told me I was being kicked out of the casino!

    After feigning ignorance and claiming I was just a high limit player who heard this was a cool promo, they said they would let me cash out what was already in the machine, but were still refusing to pay the jackpot! Not only were they screwing me out of the $500 promo, but they were refusing to pay the jackpot I rightfully won!!!! This would be super duper illegal in Nevada or any other state-regulated casino in the US!

    They cashed my ticket, threw me out, and told me I would be arrested if I came back.

    I started asking around among friends and acquaintances in the gambling community, and found out some people got fucked even worse than I did.

    A few people were thrown out upon hitting a jackpot and were not paid the jackpot OR allowed to cash out their tickets! One guy had like $30k in tickets, and they confiscated them.

    In all my years in playing casinos, I've never seen anything like this. Every single casino I've known has always paid out all rightfully hit jackpots and honored all tickets, aside from certain cases where the person was already banned prior to playing. None of these people were banned prior to playing, yet a lot of jackpots were denied and a lot of tickets were confiscated and/or not allowed to be cashed!

    They only stole $2200 from me ($2700 if you count the promo money I expected), but that's nothing compared to what happened to some others.

    You would think after all this, they would stop the promo, but go take a look at the website! It's still going!

    They are just kicking out anyone whom they suspect is there to take advantage of it, and confiscating both their jackpot and their tickets in most cases.

    Not only is this really really unethical, but nobody is even trying to cheat or get away with shenanigans here. The promo says you get $500 every handpay during those hours on Wednesday, and all we did was play higher so handpays would come more often! Duh! Even amateur gamblers should be able to figure out that's the best move.

    Unfortunately since it's an Indian casino, they are considered on sovereign land, and I cannot touch them legally. Can't sue them, can't complain to the state, nothing. They can just steal and get away with it. Motherfuckers.

    Well that's all, just wanted to warn everyone to stay away from Agua Caliente in Palm Springs!
    I too know about a half-dozen people who got bit by this, and I (like Druff) considered hitting it but I decided it was just too much travel for a 5-hour promo.

    There's word going around from sources I trust that's its purpose is nothing more than an AP trap, similar to the way some casinos will send blackjack tournament invites with juicy prize pools to known/suspected card counters with the sole purpose of backing them off (or worse) when they arrive.

    That said, the theft of the slot tickets and refusal to pay legitimately-won jackpots is beyond the pale, even for Indian country.

    My advice: DO NOT GIVE UP ON THIS. There is strength in numbers here and social media is your friend. Hit their twitter, facebook, instagram, whatever as often as you can and put the call out for every person (AP or not) who got fucked over by them to do the same. As many AP"s as are getting screwed, there are almost certainly some high-rolling squares caught up in it as collateral damage. Call them repeatedly until you get to the highest-level marketing person you can and tell them you're going to call back every hour until it gets resolved. I say marketing because they're most likely to be on your side here. The decisions to 86/trespass/steal are almost certainly being made by operations, and marketing is probably PISSED that all their high limit slot action is being chased off.

    Threaten to go to the mainstream media. Give them 7 days from the first threat to resolve it, and follow up on the threat if nothing happens. Again, strength in numbers. If enough people go to the media, they WILL take it seriously. The PR hit for Agua Caliente would be HUGE if this went mainstream, just as it was with Revel's disastrous/phony $100,000 loss rebate. They are not the only game in town; they have significant competition in the Coachella Valley and people WILL vote with their feet if you guys can get the word out.

    As for legal recourse:

    This is a longshot but you have nothing to lose at this point: While it's true that tribal casinos are not regulated by the state in which they reside, they ARE legally bound by the compact they signed with the State of California. Get your hands on a copy of that compact and see if there are any clauses in it that may help you here. You never know... File a complaint with the Bureau of Indian Affairs as well if possible. Call noted gaming attorney Bob Nersesian in Las Vegas. He would be VERY interested in this.

    Even though you're on tribal land, the US Constitution and all FEDERAL laws still apply. Several years ago, several well-known AP's got caught up in a similar incident at Mazatzal in Payson, AZ. Although the tribe itself couldn't be sued, IIRC Nersesian went after some of the casino employees involved AS INDIVIDUALS, and had some degree of success recovering damages. I'm not a lawyer by any stretch of the imagination, but you may have a similar option here, considering you and others were literally stolen from.

    This fucking sucks, man. Keep us posted.
    This was not set up as a trap. The first week many people played, won and got paid without a problem. Anyone that played the first week had to know the casino was probably not going to be very nice going forward. Don't get me wrong, not paying anything someone earned legitimately is COMPLETE BS and they should go down in flames for it(NO CHANCE OF THAT!!). There might be things that were going on that we are unaware of as to why some people didn't get paid. For all we know some employee was giving out illegitimate bonus money, Someone who was playing legitimately may have just been collateral damage.

    How was the Revel promotion phony? Many played by the rules and got paid, including some nice free play offers and many other perks going forward. There were some people who were not playing by the rules. It didn't turn out well for them, but that was to be expected, they took their shot and it didnt work out. It seemed very obvious to me that wasn't going to turn out well for them. There were some very obvious hustler type shenanigans going on at the Revel, it was an absolute complete sh*t show.

    I'm not on the side of the casinos, I know from experience they pull a ton of BS moves by not honoring promotions after the fact. But let's try to get as many facts as we can before we make judgment. It's not in our best interests to have the casinos scared of running promotions based on hearsay information.

     
    Comments
      
      sah_24: Yikes what a terrible post

  19. #19
    Gold duped_samaritan's Avatar
    Reputation
    363
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    2,009
    Quote Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    I'm not on the side of the casinos...
    You're not really saying anything. You're trying to defend an obvious scam.

    Who are you, and what inspired you to make this your first post on this very fine forum? (after 18 months of lurking)

     
    Comments
      
      sah_24: cant believe i have to green duped but it is a must here

  20. #20
    Diamond Hockey Guy's Avatar
    Reputation
    1068
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    7,196
    Quote Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    This was not set up as a trap. The first week many people played, won and got paid without a problem. Anyone that played the first week had to know the casino was probably not going to be very nice going forward. Don't get me wrong, not paying anything someone earned legitimately is COMPLETE BS and they should go down in flames for it(NO CHANCE OF THAT!!). There might be things that were going on that we are unaware of as to why some people didn't get paid. For all we know some employee was giving out illegitimate bonus money, Someone who was playing legitimately may have just been collateral damage.

    How was the Revel promotion phony? Many played by the rules and got paid, including some nice free play offers and many other perks going forward. There were some people who were not playing by the rules. It didn't turn out well for them, but that was to be expected, they took their shot and it didnt work out. It seemed very obvious to me that wasn't going to turn out well for them. There were some very obvious hustler type shenanigans going on at the Revel, it was an absolute complete sh*t show.

    I'm not on the side of the casinos, I know from experience they pull a ton of BS moves by not honoring promotions after the fact. But let's try to get as many facts as we can before we make judgment. It's not in our best interests to have the casinos scared of running promotions based on hearsay information.
    We all know the casino isn't going to make a statement without some bad PR & prodding so exactly what FACTS are we supposed to wait for? Which parts of the OP are we supposed to doubt?

    Didn't realize a first-hand account was considered hearsay information.

     
    Comments
      
      sah_24: spot on, axel is a clown
    (ē_ē) ..
    ∫\ \___( ē_ē)
    _∫∫ _∫∫ɯ \ \

    Quote Originally Posted by Hockey Guy
    I'd say good luck in the freeroll but I'm pretty sure you'll go on a bender to self-sabotage yourself & miss it completely or use it as the excuse of why you didn't cash.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. You can now transfer money between players on Ignition (sort of)
    By BeerAndPoker in forum Poker Community Discussion
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-16-2019, 09:01 PM
  2. Cops seize poker players money
    By jsearles22 in forum Flying Stupidity
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-23-2015, 05:34 AM
  3. Replies: 42
    Last Post: 02-06-2015, 11:18 AM
  4. Moore Games goes offline, still owes players money
    By Dan Druff in forum Scams, Scandals, and Shadiness
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-21-2013, 05:25 PM
  5. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-17-2012, 02:08 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •