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Thread: Two lesbians attacked in London by teen perverts, the world offers its sympathy, and one of the victims chides the sympathy-givers for being bigoted

  1. #41
    100% Organic MumblesBadly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MumblesBadly View Post

    Druff, here is the definition of misogyny per Google:

    “dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women.”

    When someone treats women the way those teenagers did, they are clearly exhibiting “contempt for... women.” Because failing to see women as something other than objects to be used one’s amusement is indicative of an ingrained contempt for them, to consider them as less than human.
    Nope. It's not contempt for women. Nor is it prejudice against women. Nor is it a dislike for women.

    This attack was the result of violent perverts who were turned on by lesbians and tried to harass them into performing for them, and it escalated into an attack.

    That doesn't mean they hate women. It just means they're criminals who attack people if they don't get what they want. If these dudes were turned on by men instead of lesbians, they probably would have done the same attack on gay men. Would that have made them haters of men?

    Not everything is an act of oppression against a group of people, Mumbles.
    Where did I say, or where is it written in Google’s definitions, that misogyny is “an act of oppression” against women? First, oppression is a political action, and there is nothing in the definition that is explicitly political. Second, treating individual women poorly because of an ingrained comtempt for them is not and act against a group; it is an act against specific women. Bizarrely, it seems as if you are conflating misogyny with patriarchialism. Mind you, misogyny probably fosters someone being patriarchal, but is in no means a sufficient condition for it.

    Seriously, dude. You seemed to have swallowed the third-wave feminist propaganda that all misogynisitic acts are evidence of the women-oppressing patriarchy. I’m not at all arguing that. Misogynists can merely be people — and not necesessary just men, as I’ve known a few females who were rabid misogynists — who hold an ingrained contempt for women absent any political intent to “oppress” them.

     
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  2. #42
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by donkdowndonedied View Post
    So you think they "obsess" over it, and those people think everyone is oblivious. Who is more correct? For some reason, I have a feeling when something happens to you, where you're treated better than an equivalent black person, you would never ever stop to consider such a thing.
    Yes, many on the SJW left obsess over privilege.

    This happens in two forms.

    Form #1 involves chiding others that they aren't feeling guilty enough for all of the privilege they receive in life.

    Form #2 involves virtue signaling where they acknowledge their own preference and verbally flog themselves for being so white/hetero/cisgender (and if applicable, male) and privileged. By engaging in such self-degradation, they feel they've earned the right to look down upon others who haven't yet realized the incredible privilege they enjoy.

    The whole thing is just so lame.

    Sure, it's great to be introspective and realize that you're lucky to have been born into various favorable circumstances. It's even fine to realize that you got some kind of favorable treatment because of your gender, skin color, sexual preference, etc.

    At the same time, this shouldn't become one of your dominant talking points, nor should you be on a quest to equalize everyone's privilege. As I cited in my example, certain people will always be born with inherent advantages (due to biology, nationality, or family they're born into), and that's just the way life is. It is actually impossible to completely equalize that, or to come close.

    There should be no guilt involved, and no shaming others for "not recognizing their privilege". That's garbage identity politicking.


    Quote Originally Posted by donkdowndonedied
    Seriously, what do you have against empathy of these people? She was given a platform after the attack and thats what she chose to deliver. Are you upset at all she didn't play the victim card enough?
    No, she didn't need to play any card.

    When the world gives you an outpouring of sympathy after a vicious attack, you need to graciously thank everyone for their support, and then keep your mouth shut. It's not the time to rail on everyone paying attention to you for not being as woke to their privilege as you are.

    If she at least stuck to the topic of the attack and used the platform to encourage showing gay people more respect in public, I'd have no problem with that.

    However, instead she went on a ridiculous rant against the "patriarchy", and claimed that the media and most people giving her sympathy are simply doing so because she and her girlfriend are white, pretty, and feminine.

    What a fucking insufferable ingrate.

  3. #43
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Also, keep in mind that she could have easily gotten her message across without coming off as so condescending and cunty.

    For example, if she was concerned that only conventionally attractive lesbians get media attention when attacked, she could have said something like:

    "While I am very grateful for all the support I've received from people following our story, I would like to take a moment to point out that other LGBTQ victims of violence usually don't get such media coverage. It seems to me that we received our coverage because we are both white, feminine, young, and fairly pretty. However, I hope everyone will take some time to listen to the stories of other LGBTQ people facing violence, such as those who are of color, present atypically for their gender, or are transgender."

    Such a statement would bring attention to her concerns without making it look like she's chiding people for being pawns of the oppressive patriarchy.

    There's just something really off-putting about her statement, and there's a reason that we're not really hearing from any of the usual PFA letfists (including the ones posting in this thread) defending what she said.

  4. #44
    Platinum gimmick's Avatar
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    What does the guilt do here? I'm a white North-European man. Fuck yeah i'm privileged and hella proud of it. Far as i'm concerned i hit 3/3 on that background roll. I'm proud of my heritage and nationality. That doesn't mean you can't be proud of yours.

    In the North-European scale i'd likely be better off being Norwegian, Swede or Dane. In the white scale i'm pretty close to the top. European shades of white from top to bottom traditionally go North, Center, South/West, East, Gypsies. If you're not from the North there's slight possibility your scale is different. Oh and with man/female flip you're better off being a male since forever.

    Through in wealth, physical/mental attributes, intelligence and you could be better off with wider options in any background. It's all just dice rolls that took place before you were born. You have no control to any of it, but that doesn't mean they don't matter. There's also no point in denying that.

    ps. Is guilt a jew/catholic thing or do other religions/cultures feel a need to sprinkle it to everything?

  5. #45
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gimmick View Post
    What does the guilt do here? I'm a white North-European man. Fuck yeah i'm privileged and hella proud of it. Far as i'm concerned i hit 3/3 on that background roll. I'm proud of my heritage and nationality. That doesn't mean you can't be proud of yours.

    In the North-European scale i'd likely be better off being Norwegian, Swede or Dane. In the white scale i'm pretty close to the top. European shades of white from top to bottom traditionally go North, Center, South/West, East, Gypsies. If you're not from the North there's slight possibility your scale is different. Oh and with man/female flip you're better off being a male since forever.

    Through in wealth, physical/mental attributes, intelligence and you could be better off with wider options in any background. It's all just dice rolls that took place before you were born. You have no control to any of it, but that doesn't mean they don't matter. There's also no point in denying that.

    ps. Is guilt a jew/catholic thing or do other religions/cultures feel a need to sprinkle it to everything?
    Not sure what you're asking here.

    I'm a Jew and I don't feel any guilt. I acknowledge that we aren't all born into equal circumstances, and in that manner, I got fairly lucky. I also acknowledge that being a white heterosexual male means that I don't have to worry about discrimination due to my race or sexual preference.

    However, I don't feel guilty about it, just like people born into circumstances better than mine also shouldn't feel guilty.

    The problem is that much of the SJW left in the US -- and increasingly the mainstream left to some degree -- feels that you have to apologize for your "privilege" in order to be seen as a decent human being. Oh, and you also have to lecture others about how you recognize your privilege, and how they're selfish bigots for not recognizing theirs.

    It's all so stupid.

    How about just treating others with respect and fairness, and not feeling like you are a bad person for being born white and heterosexual?

  6. #46
    Platinum gimmick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by gimmick View Post
    What does the guilt do here? I'm a white North-European man. Fuck yeah i'm privileged and hella proud of it. Far as i'm concerned i hit 3/3 on that background roll. I'm proud of my heritage and nationality. That doesn't mean you can't be proud of yours.

    In the North-European scale i'd likely be better off being Norwegian, Swede or Dane. In the white scale i'm pretty close to the top. European shades of white from top to bottom traditionally go North, Center, South/West, East, Gypsies. If you're not from the North there's slight possibility your scale is different. Oh and with man/female flip you're better off being a male since forever.

    Through in wealth, physical/mental attributes, intelligence and you could be better off with wider options in any background. It's all just dice rolls that took place before you were born. You have no control to any of it, but that doesn't mean they don't matter. There's also no point in denying that.

    ps. Is guilt a jew/catholic thing or do other religions/cultures feel a need to sprinkle it to everything?
    Not sure what you're asking here.

    I'm a Jew and I don't feel any guilt. I acknowledge that we aren't all born into equal circumstances, and in that manner, I got fairly lucky. I also acknowledge that being a white heterosexual male means that I don't have to worry about discrimination due to my race or sexual preference.

    However, I don't feel guilty about it, just like people born into circumstances better than mine also shouldn't feel guilty.

    The problem is that much of the SJW left in the US -- and increasingly the mainstream left to some degree -- feels that you have to apologize for your "privilege" in order to be seen as a decent human being. Oh, and you also have to lecture others about how you recognize your privilege, and they're selfish bigots for not recognizing theirs.

    It's all so stupid.

    How about just treating others with respect and fairness, and not feeling like you are a bad person for being born white and heterosexual?
    I didn't get that read from her. I don't usually go out of my way to take everything either the worst way possible or the best way possible. I'm fine with not knowing and if i care i'll find out.

    I assumed guilt or being apologetic is religious/cultural thing because none of that exist in noting that there are such things as privileges. Or generally stating that sympathy towards white wealthy pretty young women isn't the bravest stance. Also it's possible that left doesn't believe that thoughts and prayers is a finite currency of great value. So i can see that some people might not be too grateful to have their story being turned into content, virtue signaling and political currency. It's like they don't get fuck all in the exchange.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post

    In fact, it was the opposite of a homophobic attack. It was a homophilic attack -- an attack based upon the boys LIKING the women being lesbians so much that they demanded to see more physical affection between the two of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    No, she didn't need to play any card.

    When the world gives you an outpouring of sympathy after a vicious attack, you need to graciously thank everyone for their support, and then keep your mouth shut. It's not the time to rail on everyone paying attention to you for not being as woke to their privilege as you are.

    If she at least stuck to the topic of the attack and used the platform to encourage showing gay people more respect in public, I'd have no problem with that.

    However, instead she went on a ridiculous rant against the "patriarchy", and claimed that the media and most people giving her sympathy are simply doing so because she and her girlfriend are white, pretty, and feminine.

    What a fucking insufferable ingrate.
    I don't get why you so strongly feel she should be "grateful" for the support. I mean, mob of young men attack 2 women. It is sort of a no-brainer to sympathize with the women. I don't really think these women should be especially grateful for that. You act as if people saying "oh these poor lesbians" really truly means something. Why else should these women be so grateful for all this support ?

    Why would people not support them? You look at this very strange. You act like they should be on their knees, because people supported the side of 2 women acted by a vicious group of 5 male thugs. Why is this such a great act? You act like people who showed support were actually risking their lives or ANYTHING. Seems like basic humanity to me?

    Instead, the woman uses the platform to point out that the only reason people care enough for this to be discussed GLOBALLY, is because people of media/readers identify with the pretty nice white people. Don't get why that angers you. I feel there is a good deal of truth to it. Not sure about the patriarchy stuff. I read it once rather quickly and it didn't seem that bad.

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