The weird return of the abortion debate, nearly 50 years after Roe v Wade

[Dan Druff]

For decades, the abortion debate has mostly fallen out of public discussion -- so much that it rarely becomes a major part of any Presidential platform.

It was generally accepted by the mainstream that abortion would and should be legal in the early months of pregnancy, and then illegal after that unless the mother's life was threatened by the continued pregnancy.

Now, in 2019, the topic has heated up for some reason, and now there's extremism on both sides of the aisle.

In early 2019, New York passed a highly controversial law allowing abortions at ANY TIME (even moments before birth) if it could be determined that the "life or health" of the baby or mother is threatened. Critics (rightfully) claimed that the term "health" was extremely broad, and could be used to describe mental health or minor physical problems, such as back pain. In any case, abortions have also long been legal up to the 24 week mark in New York (and several other states) -- something which many weren't previously aware. 24 weeks is far enough into the pregnancy to where some babies would be viable!

Virginia has a bill on the table which would legalize abortion up until birth in the same fashion, PLUS allow for killing of a baby once born live, if its birth defects are judged serious enough. The bill hasn't passed yet, but as you can imagine, that also caused a lot of controversy.

While laws like these delighted feminists and far leftists, many moderate Democrats groaned, as they feared that these laws would validate Republicans' long-stated rhetoric that Democrats were just waiting for an opportunity to pass laws to kill viable babies. Only 11% of the country was found to be in support of non-life-threatening late term abortion, which many centrist Democats saw as a huge potential problem for the 2020 election, especially since most Democrats were afraid to speak out against these laws.

Democrats used to have a small edge in the public eye regarding their position on abortion, and in fact they occasionally used it to fearmonger that Republicans, if elected, would attack Roe v Wade.

After early 2019, amazingly that long-held edge turned into a liability for the Democrats, given their ill-timed extremism on the abortion matter.


However, now Republicans are angering those in the mainstream regarding their abortion positions.

The states of Georgia, Mississippi, Kentucky, and Ohio have passed "heartbeat laws", making abortion illegal once a fetal heartbeat is detected.

Now, Alabama has proposed a complete ban on abortion in their state, with felony charges to be filed against anyone getting or performing and abortion in that state.


Talk about a tremendous difference in laws.

Republicans aren't doing themselves any favors with this sort of thing. They should have simply stayed put, and then used the insane baby-killing laws of New York and Virginia against Democrats in the 2020 election.

Now both sides are starting to look extreme, and the public isn't going to know which way to go.

I am personally pro-life, but not yet to the point where I feel it should completely be made illegal.

I do very strongly believe that late term abortion is murder, except under very rare and necessary circumstances.

[blake]

Republicans are somehow botching this even worse than democrats, which is surprising these days.

The heartbeat bills sound nice (and i'm not opposed to them) but they affect almost no one.

A total ban on abortion affects anyone seeking an abortion. I guarantee you that every person reading this thread knows at least 40 people who have had abortions.

i truly hope Roe v. Wade gets overturned and that alabama becomes the majority black state it clearly wants to be. It's a good thing republicans are the party in favor of expansive welfare programs otherwise i'd be concerned they weren't thinking this through.

[MumblesBadly]

For decades, the abortion debate has mostly fallen out of public discussion -- so much that it rarely becomes a major part of any Presidential platform.

What fucking planet have you been living on??? The issue of abortion has been a major part of *every* major presidential platform since the religious right coalesced enough power within the Republican Party to get Geoege H. W. Bush to change his stance from pro-choice, as he stood on the issue in 1988, to anti-abortion in 1992 after facing enough of a challenge from the religious right with their support for arch social conservative Pat Buchanon.

Hell! I had voted for Poppy Bush in 1988 but denied him my vote in 1992, and instead voted for Ross Perot, because of Poppy flip-flopping on that very issue. And I again voted for Perot in 1996 as the religious right had gained even more power with the GOP, and Bob Dole ran heavily critical of abortion rights.

In fact, it has been such a hot button issue in the public debate that *every* nominee to the Supreme Court starting during Ronald Reagan’s presidency, because he had openly campaigned as a pro-life candidate in 1980, have been asked in they would vote to overturn Roe v. Wade, and all of the justices nominated by Republican presidents since then have dodged giving their opinion on abortion rights the importance of the precedence of prior rulings, while those nominated by Dems have given detailed reasons why they vote to sustain abortion rights per Roe v. Wade.

That being said, I agree that the GOP has used abortion rights as a rallying issue for their constituency, and that the Dems have overplayed their hand on the matter. But I don’t think it will affect the presidential race one bit other than to help Trump raise money from religious right voters.

[sonatine]

for anyone wondering, this is druff's mea culpa thread regarding all his posts about how trump's theocracy would be no threat to roe v wade.

[Jayjami]

Anyone with a penis needs to shut the fuck up on this issue. Druff included. If men where the ones getting pregnant, abortion would be available on demand, everywhere.

[DJ_Chaps]

For decades, the abortion debate has mostly fallen out of public discussion -- so much that it rarely becomes a major part of any Presidential platform.

What fucking planet have you been living on??? The issue of abortion has been a major part of *every* major presidential platform since the religious right coalesced enough power within the Republican Party to get Geoege H. W. Bush to change his stance from pro-choice, as he stood on the issue in 1988, to anti-abortion in 1992 after facing enough of a challenge from the religious right with their support for arch social conservative Pat Buchanon.

Hell! I had voted for Poppy Bush in 1988 but denied him my vote in 1992, and instead voted for Ross Perot, because of Poppy flip-flopping on that very issue. And I again voted for Perot in 1996 as the religious right had gained even more power with the GOP, and Bob Dole ran heavily critical of abortion rights.

In fact, it has been such a hot button issue in the public debate that *every* nominee to the Supreme Court starting during Ronald Reagan’s presidency, because he had openly campaigned as a pro-life candidate in 1980, have been asked in they would vote to overturn Roe v. Wade, and all of the justices nominated by Republican presidents since then have dodged giving their opinion on abortion rights the importance of the precedence of prior rulings, while those nominated by Dems have given detailed reasons why they vote to sustain abortion rights per Roe v. Wade.

That being said, I agree that the GOP has used abortion rights as a rallying issue for their constituency, and that the Dems have overplayed their hand on the matter. But I don’t think it will affect the presidential race one bit other than to help Trump raise money from religious right voters.

we've gone from MUH RUSSIA to MUH RELIGIOUS RIGHT. how neat.

[devidee]

I think abortion should be way more widespread. Especially for the women who are the most oppressed in our society, ie: women of color. They need better access to this vital eugenics, err...I mean healthcare. It is a constitutional right after all.






LULZ

[Lord of the Fraud]

Fuck making it illegal to get rid. I would suggest that abortions in large swathes of America should be made mandatory.


I know approximately 350 million people would disagree with that sentiment. But there are several billion of us who would raise a glass to such a glorious culling.

[Dan Druff]

Anyone with a penis needs to shut the fuck up on this issue. Druff included. If men where the ones getting pregnant, abortion would be available on demand, everywhere.

So you're cool with a woman aborting a baby at 7.5 months because her boyfriend left her and she doesn't want the baby anymore?

Because there's several states where that's either legal or quasi-legal.

[Dan Druff]

LOL at this CNN article: https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/18/us/ab...tes/index.html

The headline on the front page is, "Where your state stands on abortion restrictions".

So I clicked on it, stupidly expecting a table where all 50 states would be listed, with a clear overview of abortion laws in each.

Nope.

Instead, it's a short article which is hyper-focused on the states restricting abortion in some way.

And what of the states like New York, Oregon, and others where late term abortions are allowed? The article either doesn't mention them, or describes them in positive-sounding fashion.

New York passed a law to protect women's access to abortion right on the 46th anniversary of Roe v. Wade earlier this year. The law also protects doctors or medical professionals who perform abortions from criminal prosecution.

Yeah, New York allows abortion up to 24 weeks for any reason AND at any point up until birth for any "health" reason, and CNN describes it as "protecting women's access to abortion".


Are they even trying to appear unbiased?

Looks like they've just decided to give up any appearance of neutrality, and are trying to compete with HuffPost.

[Dan Druff]

For decades, the abortion debate has mostly fallen out of public discussion -- so much that it rarely becomes a major part of any Presidential platform.

What fucking planet have you been living on??? The issue of abortion has been a major part of *every* major presidential platform since the religious right coalesced enough power within the Republican Party to get Geoege H. W. Bush to change his stance from pro-choice, as he stood on the issue in 1988, to anti-abortion in 1992 after facing enough of a challenge from the religious right with their support for arch social conservative Pat Buchanon.

Hell! I had voted for Poppy Bush in 1988 but denied him my vote in 1992, and instead voted for Ross Perot, because of Poppy flip-flopping on that very issue. And I again voted for Perot in 1996 as the religious right had gained even more power with the GOP, and Bob Dole ran heavily critical of abortion rights.

In fact, it has been such a hot button issue in the public debate that *every* nominee to the Supreme Court starting during Ronald Reagan’s presidency, because he had openly campaigned as a pro-life candidate in 1980, have been asked in they would vote to overturn Roe v. Wade, and all of the justices nominated by Republican presidents since then have dodged giving their opinion on abortion rights the importance of the precedence of prior rulings, while those nominated by Dems have given detailed reasons why they vote to sustain abortion rights per Roe v. Wade.

That being said, I agree that the GOP has used abortion rights as a rallying issue for their constituency, and that the Dems have overplayed their hand on the matter. But I don’t think it will affect the presidential race one bit other than to help Trump raise money from religious right voters.

You're talking about 1988 and 1992. You're making my point for me.

In recent years, the Supreme Court thing was really the only time Roe v Wade would come up -- basically scaremongering by the left that a Republican majority would result in its overturning.

Now abortion has become a huge issue in 2019 -- far bigger than I have seen at any point in my adult life.

It seemed to have started with what New York did, and now we are getting extremism on both sides, neither of which is particularly appealing to the average voter.

[lol wow]

Shut it down todge

[blake]

What fucking planet have you been living on??? The issue of abortion has been a major part of *every* major presidential platform since the religious right coalesced enough power within the Republican Party to get Geoege H. W. Bush to change his stance from pro-choice, as he stood on the issue in 1988, to anti-abortion in 1992 after facing enough of a challenge from the religious right with their support for arch social conservative Pat Buchanon.

Hell! I had voted for Poppy Bush in 1988 but denied him my vote in 1992, and instead voted for Ross Perot, because of Poppy flip-flopping on that very issue. And I again voted for Perot in 1996 as the religious right had gained even more power with the GOP, and Bob Dole ran heavily critical of abortion rights.

In fact, it has been such a hot button issue in the public debate that *every* nominee to the Supreme Court starting during Ronald Reagan’s presidency, because he had openly campaigned as a pro-life candidate in 1980, have been asked in they would vote to overturn Roe v. Wade, and all of the justices nominated by Republican presidents since then have dodged giving their opinion on abortion rights the importance of the precedence of prior rulings, while those nominated by Dems have given detailed reasons why they vote to sustain abortion rights per Roe v. Wade.

That being said, I agree that the GOP has used abortion rights as a rallying issue for their constituency, and that the Dems have overplayed their hand on the matter. But I don’t think it will affect the presidential race one bit other than to help Trump raise money from religious right voters.

You're talking about 1988 and 1992. You're making my point for me.

In recent years, the Supreme Court thing was really the only time Roe v Wade would come up -- basically scaremongering by the left that a Republican majority would result in its overturning.

Now abortion has become a huge issue in 2019 -- far bigger than I have seen at any point in my adult life.

It seemed to have started with what New York did, and now we are getting extremism on both sides, neither of which is particularly appealing to the average voter.

scaremongering? it's literally on the verge of happening

[MumblesBadly]

You're talking about 1988 and 1992. You're making my point for me.

In recent years, the Supreme Court thing was really the only time Roe v Wade would come up -- basically scaremongering by the left that a Republican majority would result in its overturning.

Now abortion has become a huge issue in 2019 -- far bigger than I have seen at any point in my adult life.

It seemed to have started with what New York did, and now we are getting extremism on both sides, neither of which is particularly appealing to the average voter.

scaremongering? it's literally on the verge of happening

Druff is in total denial that abortion rights haven’t been a major presidential campaign issue since 1992. 1992 was the *beginning* of when it was important. Every presidential race since then has seen the Dems and the GOP rallying voters to the polls for their candidate to win in order for their party to have control over whether pro-choice or anti-abortion judges would be nominated to the Supreme Court. And they’ve also done so for Senste races given that the Senate controls whether a nominee gets approved to join SCOTUS.

[MrTickle]

all those against a woman's right to choose should be aborted immediately

[lol wow]

Blake has literally lamented the fact he didn't get like 2 or 3 abortions in the skatz admin forum you hate to see it

[Dan Druff]

scaremongering? it's literally on the verge of happening

Druff is in total denial that abortion rights haven’t been a major presidential campaign issue since 1992. 1992 was the *beginning* of when it was important. Every presidential race since then has seen the Dems and the GOP rallying voters to the polls for their candidate to win in order for their party to have control over whether pro-choice or anti-abortion judges would be nominated to the Supreme Court. And they’ve also done so for Senste races given that the Senate controls whether a nominee gets approved to join SCOTUS.

So you don't believe that the subject has ramped up big time in 2019?

I have never seen such fierce debate on the topic before. I was a baby when Roe v Wade took place, so I can't comment on that, but certainly in my adult and even teen life, this is the most abortion has been discussed.

[FR1GHT]

all those against a woman's right to choose should be aborted immediately

They made their choice when they decided to have sex without protection. Why is that so hard to understand?

[lol wow]

Lol is this a real poster or a troll either way ur son getting that abortion in 10 years is going to be fire content

[lol wow]

Also skatz has like 3 Benjamin MORE LIKE BEN JAMMIN amirite jokes on deck