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Thread: Dan Heimiller selling shares for as much as 2.0 markup, not being clear about it

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Dan Heimiller selling shares for as much as 2.0 markup, not being clear about it

    Check out this convoluted package being sold by Dan Heimiller:

    World Series of Poker PACKAGE 1 2019
    12 Tournaments numbered below.
    $17,950 in buyins
    Coming from 50 shares to be sold At $359 each.
    Percentage of each tournament for each share is stated below.

    1. $10,000 buy-in WSOP World Championship Main Event, July 5th
    Backers get 0.20% of total prize money per share.
    Win about $15,000+ per share if I come 1st place! ($8,000,000◊0.20%)
    Allocating $34 per share for 0.20% .(The $34 is what part of the $359 is being used for that tournament)

    2. WSOP $1000 Seniors , June 13th, 10am, includes $1000 Rebuy
    Backers get 0.20% of total prize money per share
    Win about $1,200 per share if I come 1st place! ($600,000◊0.20%)
    Allocating $8 per share for 0.20%

    3. $625 Mega Satellite for WSOP $50,000 buyin high roller, May 29th and May 30th, 12pm, up to 2 buyins at $625 each.
    Backers get 1% of total prize money per share
    Win about $12,000 per share if I come 1st place! ($1,200,000◊1%)
    Allocating $25 per share for 1%

    4. $1500 WSOP Omaha Hi/Lo, May 30th, 3pm
    Backers get 1.2% of total prize money per share
    Win about $2880 per share if I come 1st place! ($240,000◊1.2%)
    Allocating $30 per share for 1.2%

    5. $5 Million guarantee WSOP $500 NLH Buyin, May 31st flight B 11am,
    June 1 flight C 10am, & June 2 flight D 10am. Upto 5 bullets for this event. (Upto $2500)
    Backers get 1.2% of total prize money per share
    Win about $12,000 per share if I come 1st place! ($1,000,000◊1.2%)
    Allocating $50 per share for 1.2%

    6. $600 WSOP NLH allocating 2 buyins, June 3rd 11am
    Backers get 1.2% of total prize money per share
    Win about $3000 per share if I come 1st place! ($250,000◊1.2%)
    Allocating $24 per share for 1.2%

    7. $1500 WSOP Dealers Choice, allocating 2 buyins, ($3000), June 3rd, 3pm Backers get 1.2% of total prize money per share
    Win about $1560 per share if I come 1st place! ($130,000◊1.2%)
    Allocating $60 per share for 1.2%

    8. $1000 WSOP NLH Super Turbo Bounty, June 4th 11am
    Backers get 1.2% of total prize money per share
    Win about $1800 per share if I come 1st place! ($150,000◊1.2%)
    Allocating $20 per share for 1.2%

    9. $1000 WSOP HORSE, June 5th,11am
    Backers get 1.2% of total prize money per share
    Win about $2430 per share if I come 1st place! ($203,000◊1.2%)
    Allocating $20 per share for 1.2%

    10. $1100 buyin Venetian $3,000,000 guarantee MSPT, Up to 4 buyins. June 4th, 5th, & 6th, 1210pm
    Backers get 1.2% of total prize money per share
    Win about $7200 per share if I come 1st place! ($600,000◊1.2%)
    Allocating $88 per share for 1.2%

    Total at this point $17,950 to raise
    50 shares At $359 each.

    Leftover Moneys
    Because tournaments overlap and rebuys may not be necessary there will probably be money left over.
    This will go to:

    11. $1100 Mega Satellite for $10,000 Omaha Hi/Lo, June 5th, 8pm, 1 rebuy.
    Backers get 1.2% of total prize money per share
    Win about $5040 per share if I come 1st place! ($420,000◊1.2%)

    12. $1500 Seven-Card Stud, June 7th, 3pm
    Backers get 1.2% of total prize money per share
    Win about $1000 per share if I come 1st place! ($105,000◊1.2%)

    Any money left over at this point, and Share Profits will Go To Backers !

    Please ask questions. If you need to be negative private message me.

    Comment below if you'd like to buy shares

    He's already drawing lots of criticism for both the insane markup and the convoluted way he's listing it, possibly to avoid discovery of the markup!

    The two most egregious?

    Seniors Event ($1k x 2) is $8 for 0.2% of his action. Multiply that out to 1%, and you'll see it's $40 -- markup is 2.0!!!!

    $625 satellite into the $50k High Roller is also 2.0 markup. But it's even worse. Because satellites tend to have a poor structure, good players like Heimiller have less of an advantage, and thus a 2.0 markup is DEFINITELY not justified for anyone.



    Just in case you think he just likes selling microshares, notice that other events are being sold at 1.2% increments.

    Stating people's best case scenario (if he wins the event) is also a bit used-car-salesman like.

    While I think that people can charge what they want, they should always be clear about it. Here it does seem he's going out of his way to hide it.

    Source: https://www.facebook.com/groups/406567796593415/

  2. #2
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Here's a clearer picture of the events being sold:

    Bolded info is my addition.

    1. $10,000 buy-in WSOP World Championship Main Event, July 5th
    Backers get 0.20% of total prize money per share.
    Win about $15,000+ per share if I come 1st place! ($8,000,000◊0.20%)
    Allocating $34 per share for 0.20% .(The $34 is what part of the $359 is being used for that tournament)
    Each share before markup worth: $20
    Markup: 1.7


    2. WSOP $1000 Seniors , June 13th, 10am, includes $1000 Rebuy
    Backers get 0.20% of total prize money per share
    Win about $1,200 per share if I come 1st place! ($600,000◊0.20%)
    Allocating $8 per share for 0.20%
    Each share before markup worth: $4
    Markup: 2.0


    3. $625 Mega Satellite for WSOP $50,000 buyin high roller, May 29th and May 30th, 12pm, up to 2 buyins at $625 each.
    Backers get 1% of total prize money per share
    Win about $12,000 per share if I come 1st place! ($1,200,000◊1%)
    Allocating $25 per share for 1%
    Each share before markup worth: $12.50
    Markup: 2.0


    4. $1500 WSOP Omaha Hi/Lo, May 30th, 3pm
    Backers get 1.2% of total prize money per share
    Win about $2880 per share if I come 1st place! ($240,000◊1.2%)
    Allocating $30 per share for 1.2%
    Each share before markup worth: $18
    Markup: 1.67


    5. $5 Million guarantee WSOP $500 NLH Buyin, May 31st flight B 11am,
    June 1 flight C 10am, & June 2 flight D 10am. Upto 5 bullets for this event. (Upto $2500)
    Backers get 1.2% of total prize money per share
    Win about $12,000 per share if I come 1st place! ($1,000,000◊1.2%)
    Allocating $50 per share for 1.2%
    Each share before markup worth: $30
    Markup: 1.67


    6. $600 WSOP NLH allocating 2 buyins, June 3rd 11am
    Backers get 1.2% of total prize money per share
    Win about $3000 per share if I come 1st place! ($250,000◊1.2%)
    Allocating $24 per share for 1.2%
    Each share before markup worth: $14.40
    Markup: 1.67


    7. $1500 WSOP Dealers Choice, allocating 2 buyins, ($3000), June 3rd, 3pm Backers get 1.2% of total prize money per share
    Win about $1560 per share if I come 1st place! ($130,000◊1.2%)
    Allocating $60 per share for 1.2%
    Each share before markup worth: $36
    Markup: 1.67


    8. $1000 WSOP NLH Super Turbo Bounty, June 4th 11am
    Backers get 1.2% of total prize money per share
    Win about $1800 per share if I come 1st place! ($150,000◊1.2%)
    Allocating $20 per share for 1.2%
    Each share before markup worth: $12
    Markup: 1.67


    9. $1000 WSOP HORSE, June 5th,11am
    Backers get 1.2% of total prize money per share
    Win about $2430 per share if I come 1st place! ($203,000◊1.2%)
    Allocating $20 per share for 1.2%
    Each share before markup worth: $12
    Markup: 1.67


    10. $1100 buyin Venetian $3,000,000 guarantee MSPT, Up to 4 buyins. June 4th, 5th, & 6th, 1210pm
    Backers get 1.2% of total prize money per share
    Win about $7200 per share if I come 1st place! ($600,000◊1.2%)
    Allocating $88 per share for 1.2%
    Each share before markup worth: $52.80
    Markup: 1.67
    Total value of shares before markup: $211.70
    Share price: $359
    Total markup: 1.696

    So basically it's almost 1.7 markup or the entire package overall.

  3. #3
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    I do want to say that Heimiller does have a reputation of being a decent guy, and he's a good tournament player.

    That's why this is disappointing.

    Heimiller admitted on the RealGrinders group that he's not doing very well financially these days ("not broke, but I stopped being rich"), but he shouldn't resort to trickery like this to enter WSOP events.

    I'm sure, with his reputation, he could probably find someone to simply stake him into events with a fair deal. He should go that route instead of this shady nonsense.

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Also worth noting:

    With the exception of the Seniors and the Main Event, he is collecting enough money in each event to PLAY FOR FREE.

    For example, take the $1500 O8. He's selling 50 shares for $30 each -- meaning he will collect the entire $1500 and put $0 of his own money up! Yet he will still have 40% of himself.

    Eight of the 10 events he's selling are like this.

    In those eight, he's keeping 40% of his own action, yet entering for free (if he sells all 50 shares).

    Additionally, if he min-cashes ALL TEN EVENTS, investors will lose money, since min cashes are approximately 1.5x the buyin, and his markup is about 1.7x.


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    Gold Jayjami's Avatar
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    If a player is asking to be staked, they arenít worth staking. Simple as that.

  7. #7
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    The hits keep on coming!

    He just posted this on his Facebook group:

    . Here's a list of reasons why I'm worth buying a share of at the WSOP!

    (Warning it's a lot Of reading)

    These tournaments are mostly small buy-in, huge fields, and big money. The first week of the WSOP everybody and their mother are taking a shot. And I have a real resume! The return on your investment is Huge. That's why it's worth it.
    Rather than a difference in markup. What you really should be looking for , is a certainty that I have a big advantage over the field. I offer that certainty. The other players can't offer you that.
    Here's a list of reasons my markup is set where it is. I think it's low , and I don't offer it because I don't want to be fair to the players, I offer it because I won't take any less for myself.

    1. Experience
    I have 373 tournament cashes in casinos. Of all those 1.1 to 1.4 markup packages , how many tournament cashes do you think they have? I bet on average less than 1/5 the cashes I have. That's a huge experience difference.

    2. Success
    I have nineteen Top 9 finishes at the WSOP.
    I have cashed the WSOP Seniors 4 yrs out of 6yrs, with a 1st and a 9th and a 39th. Out of 4400 to 6000 players.
    I've cashed the WSOP Main Event 5 Times.
    I'm 5th since time began in number of all tournament cashes.
    11th all-time cashing at the WSOP.
    I have Nine top 20 finishes in WPT main events. The 2nd, 3rd, and 3rd are shown over and over again on TV.

    3. Type of game.
    I have fourteen Top 10 finishes at games other than No Limit Holden at the WSOP.
    There are not many books on the other games. Most players of all games are systematic players, never altering there game due to changing variables. So I have big advantage with my experience combined with my ability with applied mathematics.

    4. Applied mathematics.
    I got a perfect score on the math part of the ACT; college entrance exam. I was on two different University's math teams, representing them in the Putnam Math Competition and I wasn't even a math major (I scored 24 points where the average score is 1 ( no kidding 1)).

    5. Bad opponents.
    When there's only so many great and good players in the world. A huge field guarantees a huge number if bad players. Maybe 70% of fields in tournaments with 4000+ players play less than 30 days a year.

    6. Lenght of tournament.
    This alters your interpretation of the markup. The length of the main event is like 4 tournaments, end on end. Why shouldn't the markup be compounded to represent playing 4 tournaments parlayed? Markup 1.2 to the forth power! 1.2x1.2x1.2x1.2= 2.07! Theres over 200 players that I would be happy to stake with 50% freeroll in the Main Event at the WSOP. WSOP 3 & 4 day tournaments give you a lot more time to realize you're advantage. The markup should be higher.

    5. Mega markup.
    You're misguided assuming faster mega satellites are at a disadvantage because they're fast. It's actually that element that puts people out if their comfort zone. With experience you learn how to play short stacks and creep into winning a seat. The deep stack cash players don't have a clue. Also players are not as serious in the megas, looking ahead to larger buyins or a Vegas show , they'll miss if they stay in. Per hour they're more profitable than the actual tournament itself. In my package I'm playing a mega to a mega to a tournament. So the markup should be compounded. So markup could be: 1.3x1.3x1.3 =2.197

    6. Zero or 1 rebuy WSOP Tournaments.
    Professionals with deep pockets can't keep coming back at you.
    (Exception, The smaller buy-in with unlimited rebuys are good also because the high limit professionals will skip them in lieu of cash game or bigger buyins.)

    7. Entertainment of Big return for small money.
    Happens on many WSOP Tournaments. My $359 share can get get $10,000+ if I nail one or more tournaments !

    8. Entertainment of being a part of History!
    When I have a Winners Party, shareholders are invited !

    9. The Entertainment of the Sweat.
    When I make a run. And you see the rollercoaster hand history. And I creep tward a cash, a final table, and a Win! You can't beat the High !

    10. Education of the hand history.
    It's very interesting to see reasons for the laydowns and calls made. Variables you may never use come into play.

    Can't think of anything else right now. Everybody give me your phone numbers. So if I think of something, I'll give you a call.
    Despite claming to have aced the math ACT, he managed to fail to count to 12 properly, instead doing 5 and 6 twice.

    The "Mega Markup" one (the second #5) seems to be aimed at me, as I was the one who brought up that the mega satellites especially shouldn't be marked up high, due to their poor structure and high luck factor.

  8. #8
    Gold Jayjami's Avatar
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    “9. The Entertainment of the Sweat. When I make a run. And you see the rollercoaster hand history. And I creep tward a cash, a final table, and a Win! You can't beat the High!”

    LOL. As Druff can attest to, the high is 10 times better when you are making that run yourself. That’s why we all show up at the Rio year after year.

    Can’t play the seniors this year. Had to chose between the US Open at Pebble Beach or the seniors. Gotta go see Tiger. Was there in 2000 when he dominated. Probably going to play the $3000 limit hold’em as a make up. Not selling shares, lol.
    Last edited by Jayjami; 05-17-2019 at 10:18 AM.

  9. #9
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    He just posted this:

    After consideration. I'm going to alter the deal to benefit the backers in the incidence of only small cashes. I will pay the backers first before I get paid. So if I cash only $15,000 The backers will get that money and I get zero. The split will be same on higher amounts, where the backers at least get there money back. As if I cash $100,000, and you have 1 share worth 1.2%, then you would still get $1200. It would effect only small total amounts cashed after the deals done.
    This problem occurs with any markup package. Most the money is in the higher payoff spots anyway, so it's OK for me.
    Backers invest money, I invest time, the time I play, but also the time to learn how to play, and time is money. So In reality we both invest money. I'm just sayin.

    Basically he's saying that, if he fails to make a profit for backers, they will proportionately share all of the cashes he got, and he will keep zero.

    On the surface, that sounds good.

    And yes, it does improve his package.

    But does it make the 1.7 markup fair?

    Not at all.

    The reason he's doing this is because he is freerolling 8 of 10 events in the package, given that the markup is so high that selling just 60% of himself earns enough for the entire buyins!

    By making this change, he avoids the potential criticism from walking away with a profit despite losing overall.

    I'll give you an example.

    Let's say he min-cashes 4 events:
    Main Event for $15k
    Seniors Event for $1500
    NL Turbo Bounty for $1500
    HORSE for $1500

    That would be a total of $19500 in cashes, meaning he fell far short of the total buyins of $27,850.

    Under the old method:
    Each share would get 0.2% of $15k ($30), 0.2% of $1500 ($3), 1.2% of $1500 ($18), and 1.2% of $1500 ($18), for a grand total of $69. This would be a loss of $290 on each share.

    At the same time, Dan would walk away with 90% of $15k ($13500), 90% of $1500 ($1350), 40% of $1500 ($600), and 40% of $1500 ($600), for a grand total of $16050.

    But Dan would only be spending $8300 of his own money on the Main, $830 of his own money on the Seniors, and freerolling the other eight. So he'd only have spent $9130, resulting in a $6920 profit despite having lost!

    The new method would give away the $6920 profit proportionately to the backers, resulting in another $138.40 returned to them. They'd end up walking away with $207.40 per share, and while that's still a clear loss, it's a lot better than $69 per share! Dan would walk away breaking even (notice he's still not losing in this scenario).

    Is Dan being generous here?

    Not really.

    This prevents a PR disaster if something like the above happens, and it still allows him to freeroll his way into 8 of the 10 events he plans to play, while keeping 40% of himself in those events, plus 90% of himself in the two events he's not freerolling.

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