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Thread: Chick Fil-A, gay marriage, and the scary descent into governmental control of speech

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Chick Fil-A, gay marriage, and the scary descent into governmental control of speech

    Anyone following this?

    In short, the following has occurred over the past 6 weeks:

    - Chick-Fil-A COO Dan Cathy made a statement opposing gay marriage. He was not vulgar or brash about the matter, but rather just stated his opinion: "I think we are inviting God's judgment on our nation when we shake our fist at Him and say, 'We know better than you as to what constitutes a marriage'. I pray God's mercy on our generation that has such a prideful, arrogant attitude to think that we have the audacity to define what marriage is about."

    - Gay rights groups got angry about this and pushed for a boycott on Chick Fil-A.

    - The mayors of Chicago, San Francisco, and Boston announced that they would not allow Chick Fil-A to open up further franchises in their cities unless they retracted their views and took other measures to show how gay-friendly they had become.


    Most people have been vilifying Chick-Fil-A in this whole thing, and have been decrying how terrible it is that a large company has taken a public stance against gay marriage.

    I am also very disturbed by this whole thing, but for a different reason.

    This is an affront to free speech!

    Chick-Fil-A did not discriminate against anyone. They did not fire gay employees or refuse to let gay people eat in their establishment.

    Their only "crime" was stating a viewpoint on a hot-button political issue (gay marriage) that certain people didn't agree with.

    Did the Chick-Fil-A COO have the right to state his opposition against gay marriage? Yes.

    Does the gay community have a right to organize a boycott against Chick-Fil-A because of that company's viewpoint? Yes.

    Should politicians be punishing Chick-Fil-A for having a political viewpoint that is different than their own? Of course not!

    This is a very scary thing to me.

    It's saying that the government can now punish people or businesses for not agreeing with them. The management and ownership of Chick-Fil-A is being deprived of their first amendment rights by the cities of San Francisco, Chicago, and Boston.

    Fortunately, the ACLU, which typically is a very left-wing organization, is siding with Chick-Fil-A here.

    It is disturbing to me that mayors of 3 very large US cities see it as no big deal to violate the first amendment.


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    Platinum nunbeater's Avatar
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    Freedom of speech is a two way street fuckos.

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    I'm no constitutional scholar, but I'm pretty sure the first amendment prevents laws being passed that prohibit free speech. AFAIK nobody is passing any law that stops Dan Cathy from being a vocal bigot.

    That said, I'm not sure I support governments getting involved in this stuff.

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    Diamond Sloppy Joe's Avatar
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    I personally won't support any company that openly propagates bigoted, religious views but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't have the right to do so.

    However, the first amendment doesn't apply to zoning regulations, right? Head shops and adult stores can't just open up anywhere.

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    Gold anonamoose's Avatar
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    I support gay marriage, and hate huge god pushers such as Chik-Fil-A.

    However, they make a god damn great sandwich, and I refuse to not eat there.

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    Diamond chinamaniac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anonamoose View Post
    I support gay marriage, and hate huge god pushers such as Chik-Fil-A.

    However, they make a god damn great sandwich, and I refuse to not eat there.
    :that

    hate these mother fucking god people.

    There is one god


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    Bronze HEX's Avatar
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    I'm as left-wing as they come, but I fully agree with Druff on this (so rare). If people don't want to eat there because they don't want to support an anti-gay company, that's one thing, but cities not allowing a business to open because the owners disagree with them on social issues is completely wrong. And it's a slippery slope to much worse things.

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    Diamond PLOL's Avatar
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    I agree with most everything you said, except when you say that what he said wasn't "brash". When somebody says they're "inviting God's judgement on our nation" those are the type of people who after Katrina or 9/11 said it was God's punishment or a wake-up call. I used to eat at Chick-Fil-A pretty frequently even knowing some of their viewpoints, but I don't think I can eat there anymore in good conscious.

    Having said that, I don't cities should be banning CFA. What's wrong with letting free market capitalism work things out? And if people want to eat there or are morel likely to eat their now, I don't give a shit.

    And Todd, refusing to let gay people eat in your store or firing gay employees would be legal in a lot of states. And probably a lot more than you think.
    TRUMP 2024!

    Quote Originally Posted by verminaard View Post
    Just non-stop unrelenting LGBT propaganda being shoved down our throats.

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    Bronze TUFFTURF's Avatar
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    People should be able to speak their thought/beliefs without government interference. Basically, if you have a problem with what he said, then don't eat there. In a democracy, driven by capitalism, let the people decide.

    As far as mayors/ politicians getting involved, they can always be voted out if you don't agree with them. Part of a mayors job is attracting new businesses to employ it's citizens and creating new tax revenue streams. Good job Mayors, you are playing especially well in these economic times.

    People are people: what they do, how they do it, and when they do it should be no ones business.

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    Gold anonamoose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TUFFTURF View Post
    In a democracy, driven by capitalism, let the people decide.
    and capitalism says "mmmmmm, this shit is fucking good"

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    Bronze Sitting Out's Avatar
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    On the other side of the coin:

    "...Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos' $2.5 million pledge to defend Washington's gay-marriage law marks by far his biggest entry into politics and thrusts him into the national debate over the rights of same-sex couples....It also positions Amazon as a sort of corporate counterpoint to Chick-fil-A, the fast-food chain whose president made headlines with recent comments that America risked "God's judgment" by supporting same-sex marriage...."

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    Platinum JUSTIFIEDhomicide's Avatar
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    Boycotted Chik Fil A a long time ago. Not because of beliefs, but because theyre closed on Sunday, and that's usually the only day I think of them and want them.

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    *** SCAMMER *** Jasep's Avatar
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    It's crazy to me how people who believe in fairy tales can still be so successful.

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    Diamond Sloppy Joe's Avatar
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    I don't really see how they are being deprived of their rights. Dan Cathy and whomever else can say whatever they want to. Isn't it the cities' choice whether or not to grant them zoning permits?

    Baptists successfully kept Hooter's out of my town until three years ago and it is still quite difficult for bars/head shops/adult stores to be allowed to open business anywhere except for the seedier side of town.

    What's the difference? I know proponents of hetero marriage don't see themselves as bigots but many of us do and I'd be willing to bet that in fifty years history will shake its head that such a debate was still going on.

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    PFA Emeritus Crowe Diddly's Avatar
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    FYI, the Boston Mayor admitted pretty much right away that there wasn't really anything at all he could do about it. He said basically that part of his job is giving his opinions, and that he's also known for saying stupid shit every once in a while.

    “I make mistakes all the time. That’s a Menino-ism.”

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    Gold Vwls's Avatar
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    I don't know all the exact details, but I was under the impression that there is more to the story than the CEO making an inflammatory anti-gay-marriage statement. If that was all he had done, I don't think it would have escalated to the point it has. I heard he donated large sums of money to anti-gay organizations, whose actions surpass simply making unpopular statements. In other words, not just a free speech issue at this point. But I don't know if what I've heard is inflated hype or what.

    OK, I looked it up on Snopes to try and sift through rumor and fact. No evidence here of any blatant anti-gay actions by the groups they donate to, other than just more of the same... making public statements that mmm... gays are bad, mmkay? But I don't know what those groups are up to - I'd be interested in reading more info on that if anyone has it.

    Claim: Chick-fil-A has donated money to organizations that oppose same-sex marriage.

    TRUE

    Chick-fil-A is a Georgia-based fast food restaurant chain specializing in chicken entrées that opened its first outlet in suburban Atlanta in 1967 and has since grown to encompass over 1,600 restaurants in 39 states. The operations of the chain reflect the religious values of Founder, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer S. Truett Cathy, whose biography notes that he has "built his life and business based on hard work, humility and biblical principles" and that "based on these principles, all of Chick-fil-A's restaurants operate with a 'Closed-on-Sunday' policy, without exception."

    Chick-fil-A has been the subject of political controversy due to its WinShape Foundation, a charitable endeavor founded by S. Truett Cathy and his wife, Jeanette, which critics contend has evidenced a bias in the Chick-fil-A company by donating millions of dollars to groups with anti-gay agendas. As a result, Chick-fil-A has recently faced opposition from students at ten U.S. universities, including New York University (NYU), who have circulated petitions to oppose the opening of new Chick-fil-A franchises on their campuses and lobbied for the removal of existing restaurants. The company has maintained that neither they nor the organizations they donate to through WinShape has an "anti-gay" agenda: The student senate at Northeastern University, in Boston, voted to end negotiations to bring fast-food chain Chick-fil-A to campus after students protested over the company's affiliation with several Christian organizations the students say have an "anti-gay" agenda.

    The Atlanta-based company, dogged for months by accusations of homophobia, insists it is "not anti-anybody" but instead simply wants to "graciously serve great food and have a positive influence on all who come in contact with Chick-fil-A."

    Company president Dan Cathy insists Chick-fil-A is not a Christian company, just one founded on biblical principles. But thanks in part to the company's affiliation with pro-family groups, its frequent presence at large religious rallies and the praise music reverberating from speakers in its restaurants, both fans and detractors often refer to it as one of the country's most overtly Christian businesses.

    Through the WinShape Foundation, started by company founders Truett and Jeannette Cathy, Chick-fil-A donates to several Christian organizations, including The Marriage & Family Legacy Fund, The Fellowship of Christian Athletes and the National Christian Foundation. According to its statement, Chick-fil-A has given the groups $1,714,199. None of the organizations the company supports has an "anti-gay" agenda, although as Christian groups, they do uphold and support heterosexual marriage, Donald A. Perry, the company's vice president of corporate public relations, said in his statement.

    Thought this was humorous:

    On 24 July 2012, the satirical Onion web site spoofed the Chick-fil-A controversy by publishing an article titled "Chick-Fil-A Debuts New Homophobic Sandwich":

    As part of its recent efforts to publicly align itself with fundamentalist Christian values, the Chick-fil-A restaurant chain announced the debut of its new Queer-Hatin' Cordon Bleu sandwich that would be on sale in all of the company's 1,600 restaurants.

    In a press conference to reporters, company representatives said the homophobic new sandwich will include the national fast food chain’s trademark fried chicken filet wrapped in a piece of specially-smoked No Homo ham that would be topped with a slice of Swiss cheese and lathered in a creamy new Thousand Island-based Fag Punching sauce.
    ´*•.¸(*•.¸https://twitter.com/RealFckVwls¸.•*´)¸.•*´

    http://i.imgur.com/TsBfg.jpg

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    Platinum Rollo Tomasi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TUFFTURF View Post
    People should be able to speak their thought/beliefs without government interference. Basically, if you have a problem with what he said, then don't eat there. In a democracy, driven by capitalism, let the people decide.

    As far as mayors/ politicians getting involved, they can always be voted out if you don't agree with them. Part of a mayors job is attracting new businesses to employ it's citizens and creating new tax revenue streams. Good job Mayors, you are playing especially well in these economic times.

    People are people: what they do, how they do it, and when they do it should be no ones business.
    George Will had the best comment on the ABC This Week show:
    "this narrative is not being driven by the gay/lesbian community but rather by pandering politicians"

    and Vwls there was a recent Supreme Court decision that Corporations giving money even to political causes is free speech protected by the first amendment
    Last edited by Rollo Tomasi; 07-29-2012 at 10:55 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by tony bagadonuts View Post

    Look Corrigan, you've been a sideshow clown around here from the jump
    It's tough to take you seriously when you've made your bones acting the fool.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brittney Griner's Clit View Post
    Which one is he?

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sitting Out View Post
    On the other side of the coin:

    "...Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos' $2.5 million pledge to defend Washington's gay-marriage law marks by far his biggest entry into politics and thrusts him into the national debate over the rights of same-sex couples....It also positions Amazon as a sort of corporate counterpoint to Chick-fil-A, the fast-food chain whose president made headlines with recent comments that America risked "God's judgment" by supporting same-sex marriage...."
    See, this is fine.

    I don't give a shit where the Amazon CEO wants to spend his money. If his company is good and treats me fairly (which it does -- I love Amazon), it doesn't matter whether the CEO's politics agree with mine.

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    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sloppy Joe View Post
    I don't really see how they are being deprived of their rights. Dan Cathy and whomever else can say whatever they want to. Isn't it the cities' choice whether or not to grant them zoning permits?

    Baptists successfully kept Hooter's out of my town until three years ago and it is still quite difficult for bars/head shops/adult stores to be allowed to open business anywhere except for the seedier side of town.

    What's the difference? I know proponents of hetero marriage don't see themselves as bigots but many of us do and I'd be willing to bet that in fifty years history will shake its head that such a debate was still going on.
    There is a big difference.

    When cities or communities shut out Hooters, strip clubs, head shops, casinos, etc., they are not interfering with free speech. They are simply exercising their rights to keep certain TYPES of businesses outside of their borders. That's a restriction on actions, not speech.

    However, the mayors of Boston, SF, and Chicago aren't opposed to fast food chicken places in their city. They are only opposed to a particular fast food chicken place where the CEO disagrees with them politically. That's where the free speech argument comes in. Politicians are saying, "You had better agree with me politically, or otherwise I'll shut your business out of here, while allowing your competition of identical nature to stay."

    It is fine to shut out businesses from your city if they have a history of breaking the law, would create a disruption for the citizens (such as a major nightclub near a quiet, residential neighborhood), or are providing a service that you don't want in your town (strip club, headshop, etc).

    However, if you're fine with a business until the CEO says something you don't agree with, that's interfering with free speech, and politicians should never get involved in such a thing.

    While I often don't agree with the ACLU, I applaud them for once again putting politics aside and sticking to their core beliefs. This is not the first time that the ACLU has sided with a conservative cause/comapny/individual, and I respect them for their consistency and lack of hypocrisy.

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    Diamond shortbuspoker's Avatar
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    I posted this on Twitter for lulz but it is somewhat true and insightful

    Name:  550984_3816750291225_197625926_n.jpg
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